Syrian Brimstone
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
The UK has finally authorised bombing ISIS in Syria. A lot of British representatives were boasting about the "Brimstone" missile used by the RAF. So, let's have a Ground Attack thread. Is the Brimstone any good? Any better than Mavericks? Will it make that much of a difference in Syria?
There's this video but it seems a lot like fluff than substance.
https://youtu.be/oo6M1ZQcsh0
>>28066887
I have no comment or knowledge on the subject except to say that Brimstone is a top tier name for a weapons system
Whom are bongs going to bomb again?
>>28066887
>Is the Brimstone any good
It's okay, but inferior to the SDB II
>Any better than Mavericks
Yes
>Will it make that much of a difference in Syria
No
>>28066887
Problem is that a daesh life isn't worth the £100k it costs to use
>>28066961
ISIS/ISIL/Balsamic State/Rainbow Daesh: Jihad is Magic/whatever they're calling themselves this week.
>>28066887
>Any better than Mavericks?
In most respects yeah. Maverick has a far larger warhead, but that's actually a drawback if you're trying to limit collateral damage. It's also got optical guidance, which can be useful though it's also situational.
>>28066887
its a extended range hellfire with a dual mode seeker, decent warhead and excellent accuracy, designed primarily for CAS missions.
it will hit its target, it will kill its target (assuming target is a single vehicle not significantly bigger or better armored than a MBT, use something bigger if you are tryig to sink a major warship of take out a hardend command center) and you can carry lots of them on a single aircraft.
its a damn good weapon
>>28067115
Cost is big too, and the Brimstone is way too expensive for what it delivers
I'm more interested in them reporting their sending 6 Typhoons out there.
I'm assuming that means the P2E update was completed and they're now operational with Paveway IVs, because the P3E/Tranche 3 contract which is due to bring Brimstone compatibility was only signed recently.
So the Tornados will be running with Brimstone and the Typhoons Paveway? That'll be the first time an RAF Typhoon have carried out operational ground strikes. I read that the Saudis were already carrying out Typhoon strikes with Paveway though.
I hope we get footage of it.
>>28066887
Maverick is an antiquated POS that gets used because it has a fat all-purpose warhead and we have big stocks left over from the cold war.
Brimstone is nice, it's a slightly improved hellfire with some better software and aftermarket mods.
>>28067363
We're still making new variants of the Maverick though. I doubt 20-30 year old missiles are all that safe to fire anyways.
>>28067363
its a little more than that.
the project that created the brimstone misslie began as a enhancement project for hellfire missiles, but ended up keeping only the missile body, and that only for the first generation missile.
>>28067319
They did it in Libya in 2011
>>28067130
Its ~$160,000/unit, Hellfires are only ~$110,000.
The latter has economy of scale in that, considering the fucking trucks of them produced. Not that insanely pricely.
>>28067363
Mavs are also compatible with many aircraft. Using Hellfires would require development of a specialized rail adapter.
>>28067530
They were using Enhanced Paveway II in Libya and weren't cleared to self-designate with Litening III because the pilots hadn't done any refreshers on it for 3 years.
If they're used in an A2G role, this will be the first time RAF Typhoons have operated independently and the first time they've dropped Paveway IV in anger. The Saudis have already done so however
>>28067022
Kek
>>28068016
already done as part of the brimstone package, standard adapter is the 3 pack shown in OP.
can be carried in the same stations as any other store on typhoon and tornado, dont think it would be a significant issue to fit them to any of the standard US fighter types the A10 or the gripen
>>28067127
You can also ripple-fire them and in MMW-guidance mode they will engage separate targets.
They were originally designed to be used against mass tank formations instead of using BL775 cluster bombs, which were seen as being ineffective against modern armour.
>>28066917
Topkek.
I concur.
>>28066887
Silly how Britains GDP is literally just above Mississippi when compared to the other 49 states. Yet they can afford the current massive welfare nanny state and the ability to spend what they do on armaments. Shits whack.
>>28066998
>It's okay, but inferior to the SDB II
They're developing a version that's analogous to SDB II - pretty much the Brimstone 2's seeker head attached to an airframe with folding glide wings.
Major difference to SBD is that it'll also have a rocket motor rather than being just a glide weapon
>>28068158
They invented Keynesian economics. They probably have lot of deficit
>>28067012
Are there sleeves with preformed shrapnel available for them? Could the armorers perhaps improvise something by taping bundles of nails to them with mile-a-minute tape to improve lethality in the antipersonnel role? This might make it a bit more worthwhile as it might be able to kill more than one dirkadirka at once.
>>28068108
Probably also useful now since I think Britain has stopped using cluster munitions.
>>28067012
Pretty sure they're mainly using Hellfires from Reapers on these strikes.
>>28067363
I was under the impression that Mavs worked pretty well and were pretty reliable, at least compared to the systems they replaced--shit like the AGM12 and AGM62 from the 60s.
>>28066887
>>28068158
>>28068181
Wrong
>>28066887
It's a great missile, but if they wanna make a dent in ISIS, ground attack is the wrong way to do it.
They need to cut off the sources of income that allows ISIS to buy and maintain those weapons in the first place with strategic bombing.
>>28068240
I think he was confused with Texas, which has a GDP of 1.414
>>28068251
Nah, the main thing is to win back radicalized youth who are providing all the manpower.
>>28067022
That was funny.
They're fucking wicked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoGKPMmdGDk
>>28068251
>>28068294
What if they did both?
>>28068323
>that lofting
my
dick
>>28068240
I'm sure they mean GDPPC - Mississippi's population is only like 3 million where ours is 65 million
>>28068181
It's just started to drop below 5% of GDP for the first time since 2008
I'm betting that people in Mississippi aren't taxed to shit like we are.
>>28068240
>>28068274
Current GDP (from a September estimate), has Britain at $2.945 trillion dollars.
As of February 2015, California was at $2.4 trillion, Texas was at $1.7 trillion, and New York was at $1.4 trillion.
Course Britain has roughly twice the number of people of California and Texas (individually I mean).
Can someone explain why the UK even developed their own missile?
France has their own missiles too IIRC and the US probably has several.
Wouldn't there be huge savings if all NATO countries bought the same stuff?
>>28068375
your better off being taxed to death in Britain than you are living in Mississippi... the only thing they have on you is better barbecue... seriously it's a backwards ass joke of a state.
>>28068503
needed a replacement for cluster bombs, had a requirement that needed filling so filled it.
project wasnt expensive and seemed likely to lead to some export sales
>>28068503
Not sure about right now, but the missile filled a niche when it was first designed, to the point where the Americans were considering purchasing it.
And surely it's always good to retain the capabilities to develop your own stuff.
>>28068503
Alot of the time these projects start off as joint projects that end up splitting when the member nations decide they have different requirements.
>>28066998
>It's okay, but inferior to the SDB II
Can SDBII create a 24 missile strong networked swarm attack that can, in concert, launch within 10 seconds in a single volley from only two aircraft from 60km out with a sub 1m degree of accuracy and coordinated convoy attack modes to prioritise vehicle types from an internal database and track targets moving perpendicularly across uneven terrain at 70mph with a completely independant self guiding ability that can re-designate, re-angle or even call off its attack if need be? And organise the swarm strike mid-flight so that all the missiles land within mere seconds of one another with no repeat targets?
There's a reason why Brimstone is held in such high regard. There's quite simply nothing else like it out there right now. Some might give the same effect on target, but it's the enormous technology surrounding its guidance and volley launch network systems that turn it into an outrageously potent weapon capable of both ultra-precision single strikes and devastating swarm impacts in the same munition.
>>28068891
Why did I just get a hard-on from an ATGM?
>>28068503
>the US probably has several.
The US has been messing around with developing something like Brimstone for years (JAGM), but they haven't pulled their finger out and actually made it yet.
The UK wants to replace hellfire with it on their Apaches and Reapers too.
>>28068323
What altitude are they being launched at?
Looks pretty fucking low
>>28067622
Latest variant of the Hellfire (the Romeo) was ~$102,000 in 2014. Should go down even further, since we only bought a couple hundred of them that year. We bought 1,700 of them this year and next year we're buying almost 6,000.
>>28068503
Sometimes it's different requirements, especially when you have so many different aircraft across allies. Plus, there's a lot to be said for retaining the knowledge (both institutional for developing future requirements and practical tech for development) even if you aren't actively building it en masse, for a time at least the ability to rapidly develop and accurately test tech can be strategically very valuable.
>>28069053
As an American I'd be totally OK with us just license building Brimstone rather than eating the development costs of JAGM.
>mfw it'll be raining hellfire and brimstone in Syria.
>>28069556
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsG4nv_a5-8
>>28069556
They really are some of the best names for missiles ever.
Two Tornadoes have already been and dropped Paveway IVs in Syria and returned to RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus
That didn't take long to get stuck in
>>28069556
This can't be a coincidence.
Airstrikes are still ineffective to this date.
Want to beat IS , get boots on ground
>>28069757
What, the names? Well the program that created the Brimstone was originally a program to make an upgraded Hellfire, so that's probably why they chose a similar name.
>>28066961
Brown people
>>28068185
Youre talking about a whole different kind of bomb, and yes they exist but they are largely banned from use in war by developed countries save for world war 3.
Cluster bombs, for example, are a good anti personal explosive weapon that is banned from use.
>>28070501
I don't think London is the target m8
>>28070849
AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>28068035
how does the Paveway IV compare to the Laser JDAM? still have bang bang guidance?
>>28070574
>Cluster bombs
yeah looks banned all right
>>28068503
>Wouldn't it be better if countries other than the US just stopped building their own stuff and completely fucked up their defense sector from lack of skills and employment?
>>28066887
that looks hot
The big thing about Brimstone is its versatility.
You can carry 12 Brimstone on a single Tornado. You can then independently fire them one by one using either radar or laser guidance, or target them all to different targets and fire them off in a single volley, or anything in between. They will be capable of killing pretty much anything mobile on the modern battlefield and quite a few things that are immobile. They have a longer range than Hellfire and a bigger bang.
The only downside of Brimstone is the cost but it's very accurate, very effective and very versatile.
>>28068891
Not to mention that it's not just an AGM, it can be mounted on land and naval platforms as well.
>>28072435
Well, it'd be better for the US. And China.
>>28069755
S-400 btfo
NATO does what it wants.
>>28072736
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmYqq3qehDE
>>28070849
Wish it was. Would be a shame about the architecture and history though. That and I have to go to Hyde Park Sunday
Seriously thought. Drop chemicals on it
>>28069119
Less than 200 feet I'm guessing. The Tornado and Brimstone combination was supposed to fly low over the Fulda Gap slinging as many missiles as they could against Soviet tanks.
>>28072760
>>28072760
What? Why would the Russians be opposed at all?
Whilst not cooperating, the coalition and Russia are sharing airspace hitting their respective targets. It's been like this before and after the Turkish shoot down.
>>28069764
>Airstrikes are still ineffective to this date.
>ISIS has lost everywhere coalition airstrikes have provided support to Kurds or Iraqis
>>28068891
>>28066998
>comparing a standoff glide bomb to a air to ground missile
its range vs fancy networking
>>28073446
Vatniks would have you believe that the West has stopped due to S-400's, the same thing they claimed after Russia started airstrikes.
>>28068503
Defence export is big business for us. Companies like BAE and Quinitec pull in a lot of money with their pricey killamajigs. Brimstone is manufactured in Britain, jobs boost and all that.
The US has made noises about buying Brimstone for a while now too.
>>28066887
is it me or does the name brimstone sound like a knockoff of hellfire
>>28073522
It started life as Hellfire v2 but they scrapped bearly everything and built from scratch.
>>28073477
And what do you call the opposite of Vatnik as >>28072760 was obnoxiously being an idiot.
>>28069764
On the contrary, they've been very effective. Obviously never as much as an effective ground fighting force, but lots of people don't seem to realise how much further ISIS would have advanced in Iraq and Syria without coalition air support.
>>28073537
it looks badass
>>28073542
You probably meant without russian air support. Cause the only real thing coalition has achieved is Kobane.
>>28073542
>lots of people don't seem to realise how much further ISIS would have advanced in Iraq and Syria without coalition air support.
a slow advance rather than a fast advance isn't 'effective', nor is there any real point to it.
>>28073565
The sweeping ISIS offensives were halted in 2014, sure they've had some gains and losses since but they haven't had anything on the scale of taking half of Iraq in one month like they did in June 2014 since.
>>28073542
And what is the western equivalent of a vatnik?
>>28073565
>I have not paid any attention to Iraq
>Kobane is the only thing in Syria, despite ISIS losing its entire northern flank to the Kurds
Next you are going to tell us that Russia has been bombing ISIS instead of the rebels next to Assad's territory.
>>28073574
There is no advance, in the last year ISIS has lost substantially more ground than it has gained.
>>28073598
I'm really not up with how they're doing, honestly.
Just saying that if they had been slowed but not stopped, it would have been a pretty futile effort.
If they have had losses in terms of territory then yeah, thats worthwhile.
>>28073594
Its been bombing both, and the rebels are just as bad as ISIS.
>>28073542
People already forgot what airstrikes did in Libya.
>>28073614
Not really, almost all of their airstrikes have been on various rebels.
And you are foolish to lump all of the Rebel's under the Islamist umbrella for the sake of Russian propaganda (calling every group fighting Assad ISIS), its the kind of ignorance that led to the Iraqi insurgency that started after Saddam fell.
>>28073594
>Iraq
Not really feeling it broski, russians have already achieved more in two months than coalition did in two years.
>>28073609
ISIS has basically gained ground in southwest Syria while losing it in northern Syria, and Mosul being encircled in Iraq.
>>28073641
>he fell for the moderate rebels meme
>>28073643
Sorry broski but russian airstrikes have not swayed any battles yet.
>>28073659
>he fell for the all rebels are ISIS meme
>>28073676
>yeah those guys that chant allahu ackbar and cut their prisoners' heads off are totally moderate secular progressive democratic opposition
>>28069755
Just asked someone stationed in KSA if they bombing Syria, said no but they have lots of Tornados with Paveway to hand if they needed but being KSA doubts they will get a go
>>28073676
in russia meme falls for you
>>28068891
We Macross now
>>28073641
>calling every group fighting Assad ISIS
I did not say they were the same, I said they were just as bad, because the Al Nusra front, Islamic Front, Army of Conquest etc are exactly the same people we spent a decade fighting in Iraq.
>>28073689
yeah like oh my god why would anyone praise god if he is like going to die or something right? no one would ever do that in the west GOD!
>>28073752
>why would anyone praise god if he is like going to die
>yeah those guys that chant allahu ackbar and cut their prisoners' heads off
You have very poor reading comprehension.
>>28066887
Brimstone 2 is just the British update to Hellfire. It's basically just a better version. The US was looking at using it since it fits all the same shit but Britain didn't fold on the contract requirements so they didn't bother as far as I remember.
and no it won't make a difference in Syria, as will no other standard missile that's not packing willy pete or chemicals.
You seem to think that a Hellfire or Brimstone is cost effective against some mook in a Hilux when the 4 guys, their equipment, training and vehicle probably amount to $20,000 in overall cost while the missile or bomb used costs anywhere from $70 - 200,000 dollars. It's purely an exercise in ineffective excess. It's why Russia is doing better because they are using cheap as fuck barrel bombs and basic droppables that costs a couple of thousand bucks to achieve the same exact goals and only burn money on tactical assaults and military pushes where it's actually reasonable to do so.
This is the problem with Britain and the US in any of these conflicts. Without expensive units to kill, the equipment we use is horrifically expensive for it's purpose.
>>28072413
>Banned for use by developed countries
>developed
Looks about right
>>28073590
That's what I'm asking.
>>28073565
Yeah, tell me about the Russian air strikes in Iraq. The Russians have done wonders for the Syrian army in halting the rebels.
>>28073574
ISIS is actively being stymied not by choice, but by being crippled by air support. They can't muster, travel in groups, leaders cannot effectively communicate electronically, key positions are bombed as soon as they pop up. Etc.
The Kurds and the Iraqi army are actively taking back territory.
>>28067022
>>28070979
No, PWIV has proportional guidance like the PWIII did.
I've heard it has CEP of something like 3m against moving targets and <1m against static targets.
>>28070849
this nigga is bringing the heat
>>28068202
kek so a missile that's even more expensive?
>>28070849
Savage
>>28067319
P2E is completed yet. ZK335 dropped the first Typhoon released Paveway IV last November.
A mod program is beginning in a few weeks FWIW.
I think P2E kicks off in March-ish.
>>28073676
>he fell for the not all muslims are terrorists meme
>>28066887
They used paveway missiles for the bombing last night though
>>28067319
The six Typhoons are probably there to provide security against Russian and Syrian interference.
>IS hold in high regard the Islamic belief that the end of days (hellfire, pillars of salt, etc) will occur with one final massive battle against the non-believers in the deserts of the Levant (Syria)
>We, the non-believers, will literally be raining hellfire and brimstone upon them in the Levant desert
Sure, the Koran said it'll be the end of days, but didn't say for whom, mothafuckas
>>28073750
nobody gives a fuck if they're 'just as bad' on a moral level, because morals don't matter at war. ISIS is a priority because they hold territory, sponsor international terrorism and are actually setting up an oppressive state while the rest of the rebels are busy with infighting and Assad.
It wasn't the Syrian rebels that claimed responsability for Paris or the Russian plane downing.
>All this Russia is doing better in Syria meme
Everyone does realize that the amount of air strikes America carries out dwarves everyone else's put together, right? Including Russia. Russia could leave and there'd be no actual effect on the situation on the ground because their strikes are a small percentage of the overall total.
>>28074218
for people calling out the media's lies they're the first to fall for the illusion that what they see is exactly what's happening.
the US hasn't made an habit out of publicizing his military actions since Desert Storm. All the footage is held incredibly tightly since wikileaks was a thing. We could be waging a huge war right now and the only evidence would be cellphone footage of crying snackbars getting blasted from nothingness.
>>28073432
The Brimstone didn't come into service until well after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, so I'm guessing s Fulda Gap scenario wasn't in mind when developed. Also, the primary task RAF Tornados would have undertaken had WWIII started during the Cold War was attacking W.P. airfields with cratering submunitions.
>>28068185
if you think a 50kg missile blowing up will only kill one person, go ahead and stand closer to it.
>>28068914
Because you belong on /k/
>>28073747
Welcome to the Itano Circus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzXfVgYCxWI
>>28074474
>The Brimstone didn't come into service until well after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, so I'm guessing s Fulda Gap scenario wasn't in mind when developed.
Brimstone was in development for fucking ages it was research was started in the late 80s, project cancelled in 1990, then started again in 1992.
Tornadoes would have stopped using submunitions to attack airfields pretty sharpish, just like they did in the 1991 Gulf War when they tried it and realised it was borderline suicidal and had relatively little effect in denying the Iraqis use of their runways.
Experience with JP233 and BL755 in 1991 was what saw the Brimstone project being revived.
>>28066887
Brimstone saying "hello" to an ISIL MBT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np-l2GZk67I
>>28075073
Defense News said something sorta funny.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/warfare/2015/12/03/uk-bolsters-combat-jet-force-attacking-islamic-state/76715166/
>The Tornado also carries the smaller, but highly accurate, Brimstone anti-everything missile.
>>28068158
That's white privilege for you anon
>>28075171
Top kek. That's actually brilliant.
>>28073817
>Thinking a war is determined solely by kills
It's almost like you've never been in a firefight that needed CAS to win an area or something to understand why having a fancy missile blow the fuck out the mortar and HMG positions fucking you over is a very fucking good thing to take ground with.
>>28075073
Holy shit dat turret pop.
That thing fucking FLEW.
We can buy this missile when? (France here)
>>28075171
The country may be going to shit, but at least they've kept that dry wit.
>>28073817
Economies to scale man.
A mook in a hilux is expensive to ISIS.
A hellfire to kill that mook is very inexpensive to the USA.
Something you guys NEVER understand.
>>28076039
Chuter is definitely one of the better guys for military news right now. He used to be the news editor for Janes, which speaks pretty highly of him.
>>28073817
>Brimstone 2 is just the British update to Hellfire
not really, project started that way, ended up replacing every component but the missile shell, new motor, new seeker, new warhead.
its a significant enough upgrade that the mark 2 brimstone is dropping the hellfire shell as well
>>28068185
the whole point of the missile is to have a small kill radius. if you want a big boom, just use a paveway.
The six Typhoons have arrived in Cyprus - seen carrying Litening pod already.
They've stripped all the coloured squadron emblems off of the airframes too
>>28076598
>They've stripped all the coloured squadron emblems off of the airframes too
For what purpose
OPSEC regarding retaliation against RAF families?
>>28076885
Probably just because they're operating from Cyprus as a mixed wing rather than a squadron.
The airframes still have their tail codes that indicate what squadron normally operates the aircraft.
The Tornadoes at Marham have been devoid of squadron markings for years because the RAF effectively operates the whole Tornado fleet as one unit. Was the same with the Harriers before they were retired
using a $200,000 dollar missile to kill some mudslimes
guided 70mm rocket can do the same damage for $30,000
>>28067115
Fuck collateral damage. Ackbars do not differentiate noncombatants except their own when trying to foster liberal foreign aid.
>>28073643
>Kobane
>Mosul Damn
>About to retake Ramadi
>Saving the Iranians asses at Tikrit
>Multiple air and ground operations in Iraq and Syria
>Literally have flown over the glorious S-400 network without giving a fuck
Russians:
>Most of the SAA's grand offensive was BTFO
>Not even bombing ISIS
>Cruise Missiles were an abject failure
>Only stay in Syrian airspace
>Get bootyblasted by fucking Turks
>Don't do anything but wag a finger at everyone and talk about how stronk they area
Face it Vatnik, once you peel back the propoganda Russia's the biggest keks in the whole think.
Despite all
>>28077451
>Russia gets all STRONK about deploying S-400 and AAW cruisers and shit
>RAF flies a bunch of 70's aircraft right through it 24 hours later due to completely unrelated events, and they weren't even making a point
You know what they say about the Brits and their comedic timing. This is priceless.
>>28066887
'tis not me starts playing.
>>28075073
>Ramadi
WTF that is from Libya
>>28073689
>every one in the middle east doesn't yell allahu akbar
>every one in the middle east doesn't cut off heads
>>28074817
>That rocket powered Budweiser can at 1:32
Still gets me every time.
>>28067022
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