The /k/atana is the superior sword, second to none.
Both factually and subjectively true.
>>28012763
the ultimate meelee weapon would be the halberd
and the only sword that could match the halberd in combat is the zweihander
The correct answer is actually a gun.
>>28012763
Bows are better.
>>28012763
I thought the ubiquitous Axe held the honor of being the most functional melee weapon to grace us from the paleolithic era
>>28012763
Gomenasai, my name is Ken-Sama.
I’m a 27 year old American Otaku (Anime fan for you gaijins). I draw Anime and Manga on my tablet, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior Japanese games. (Disgaea, Final Fantasy, Persona series)
I train with my Katana every day, this superior weapon can cut clean through steel because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my sword license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.
I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Osaka dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Japanese history and their bushido code, which I follow 100%
When I get my Japanese visa, I am moving to Tokyo to attend a prestigious High School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an animator for Studio Ghibli or a game designer!
I own several kimonos, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Japan, so I can fit in easier. I bow to my elders and seniors and speak Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.
Wish me luck in Japan!
>>28013089
>The only thing that stops a bad guy with a longbow, is a good guy with a longbow
>>28013579
Kek, never gets old
>>28013404
Rekt
>>28012763
>Ultimate Melee Weapon
>a katana
lol, the blood will dull the blade faster than you can say kimochi onnichan
>>28012763
From a purely pragmatic standpoint, swords make the worst melee weapons.
>need skill to use
>need to keep from rusting
>need edge alignment
>need good edge & blade geometry for specific use
>need to carry often useless scabbard in most cases
>so many variables in quality and manufacturing
>low value, high cost
Swords, historically, were martial status symbols first. Even those who wielded them in war throughout history preferred to use other weapons: the knight, the mace. The samurai, the naginata or yari. The sword was almost always a sidearm.
I like blunt weapons because you don't need to worry about a lot of the shit I mentioned. Spears and halberds >swords, too.
>>28013579
glad this is still around
>>28012907
This. Swords are obectively inferior to polearms. Swords are sidearms. Using a sword as your primary weapon is the equivalent of using a handgun. Convenient to carry, but a long/pole arm is factually better in a fight.
>>28012763
Wapanese autistic object of obsession!
>>28013692
>>28013404
so, your telling me a sword for slashing isn't as heavy hitting as a sword for brute force strikes?
WOW, shocker
>>28013601
Kek
>>28013089
>thisiswhatnipsactuallybelieve.webm
>>28013794
When both are about the same weight and the other sword cuts just as good as the katana, it doesn't speak very well for its effectiveness.
What is better than a katana? A Zweihander
What's better than a Zweihander? A flaming Zweihander with integrated flamethrower
>>28014328
>A flaming Zweihander
That's a Flamberge.
>>28013794
>Brute force strikes
This is what weebs actually believe
does famas count as a sword
>>28013794
Wow... I can't believe people still don't know fuck all about shit... Wait yes i can.
>>28013579
Hadn't seen this in a while.
Still, feel free to kill yourself for bothering to repost it.
>>28015794
is that a famas
>>28013089
I hope those archers are at least using magic.
>>28013560
That's because you're a fucking moron
![Fairburn-Sykes%20Commando[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Ad0QctL.jpg "Fairburn-Sykes%20Commando[1].jpg")
Ultimate melee weapon for what purpose? I'm interested in protecting myself as a civilian going about my business. For those comfortable with carrying one, I think a long, two-edged, smooth blade (like this dagger here) would be the best weapon for the role. This could be legally OCed where I live.
>>28016511
In a knife fight, the loser bleeds out in the street; the winner bleeds out in the ambulance
>>28016536
>no Havel's ring
Git good n00b
>>28016527
I carry a knife. I would use it to defend myself if for some reason I lost control of my gun.
Katana Vs Blunt Bastard Sword
Katana Myth: busted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58NVoTocUOk
>>28012763
>>28012907
But WTF is an "ultimate melee weapon"?
That's just a myth created by Reddit faggots to masturbate in front of an artificial bladed (or blunted object).
Let's get real for fucks sake and try to specify what the context of application of said "ultimate" weapon is.
E.g.: Although swords can be used effectively in narrow spaces, a knife may be more handy.
Another e.g.: assuming you are facing 2+ opponents, your "ultimate" weapon may be different.
>>28012916
Again: NO you motherfucker. Optimal weapon can be selected only if we know the context in which it will be used. Suppose you have to kill somebody and dispose of his corpse very quickly and in a silent way. Will you choose a gun? No, of course not. Not even one with a silencer, in most scenarios. This proves guns are not the ultimate weapons. They *are* ultimate in a lot of contexts, but not in this one.
>Anyway
For fuck sake are we still trying to shitpost Katana vs. Medieval Sword baits with the hope some retard will answer to the thread?
That's fucking insane.
>>28013579
Made me fucking kek because I own a yukata, am training in martial arts, and would love to visit Japan... because of my generation's fascination with that culture.
But to say I follow Bushido to the letter would be fucking bullshit. Unless by Bushido you mean the pursuit of happiness and an empty mind through practical exercises.
Yet, I would hardly classify myself as an Otaku or somebody obsessed with Japan. Is just one of the things I like among others.
So, again top kek. This will never get old, and made me glance at my wardrobe and wonder if I had matched Ken-Sama without being aware of that.
Answer is no. And I'm glad it is.
>>28013794
Broot forse strykez.
Its second a authentic marine corps /k/-bar.
>implying a shitty chink sword is better than a weapon designed to sustain the intensity of war, and still function properly, and having been field tested in many many wars many times.
>kill yourself
>>28016813
Learn how to quote, chimp.
>>28013794
dude katana was way heavier than european swords
because of the shitty steel quality it had to
>>28016712
no
even in tight corners a halberd still trumps a knife
you just choke up on the blade a little more and use it more to stab and pry and push
i would so kill you a hundred times over if you came at me with a knife when i have polearm you wouldn't even know what hit you
>>28013766
i have to disagree
1) you need skill to use any weapon effectively in combat even a fucking club
2) everything back then was prone to rusting that is why they coated them with oil or wax
3) half or your picture needs good edge alignment fortunately for a soldier practicing for a few days with his weapon it's not a problem will come as an instinct it is the main reason double bearded axes are useless in combat tho you don't feel the edge cause it's totally balanced.
4) scabbard can be used in the off hand instead of a shield but this was mostly a civilian thing
5) that is true altho swords were tested before battle the blacksmith himself tested a good blade extensively before honing and polishing it up
6) very true your only valid point that is why at certain points and places in history mainly nobility used them and as auxilary and status symbols
someone should make a medieval version of murdercube i thing it would be cool the wooden handles might pose a problem tho.
>katana is the superior sword
do you even kriegsmesser
>>28017720
Don't trigger me with your halberd bait.
Context matters.
Even if my example is misplaced, you can think of conflict situations where halberds are irrelevant.
E.g. if you have to carry something swiftly and secretly. Halberds are not very concealable.
This makes my point.
Given every weapon, we can think of at least a context in which it is rendered useless (e.g. halberd vs. gun in a context where range matters; halberd vs. concealed in a context where portability matters; and so on...).
>>28018386
yeah probably most medieval kommandos did not used halberds to sneak around but in castle defense it was awesome also in formations generally on the field and against horsemen. even in tight corners and corridors halberds were used effectively especially in formation.
they were the epitome of long arms along with poleaxe and the pike with good armor you were top dog on the field. belt swords were only a backup and generally shitty quality in later times.
daggers were last resort only.
>>28012763
Nigga, the swords that vikings used back in the day were fucking brutal. The forging technique they used was basically forging a sword around another sword
> viking broad sword ftw
>>28018806
again vikings used pretty shit steel it was soft and bendy as fuark
>>28013579
Does anyone have the one with the Asian cowboy?
>>28017746
>i have to disagree
>1) you need skill to use any weapon effectively in combat even a fucking club
>2) everything back then was prone to rusting that is why they coated them with oil or wax
>3) half or your picture needs good edge alignment fortunately for a soldier practicing for a few days with his weapon it's not a problem will come as an instinct it is the main reason double bearded axes are useless in combat tho you don't feel the edge cause it's totally balanced.
>4) scabbard can be used in the off hand instead of a shield but this was mostly a civilian thing
>5) that is true altho swords were tested before battle the blacksmith himself tested a good blade extensively before honing and polishing it up
>6) very true your only valid point that is why at certain points and places in history mainly nobility used them and as auxilary and status symbols
>>28014368
kek
>>28013794
Would you go so far as to say that it has more...stopping power?
>>28013089
>tfw 8 years as 64 crewchief
>media always portrays apaches like shit
feels bad man
>>28016527
It's not a knife fight if your opponent doesn't have a knife.
>>28018818
Pre 1000 A.D. European steel production is pretty close to traditional Japanese steel.
If it's soft and bendy depends more on the hardening and tempering method.
surprised no one has mentioned the falchion. weight and damage of an axe with the speed and flexibility of a sword
>>28017700
>shitty steel quality
Pull the other one.
>>28019791
it's a historical fact japanese steel was too shitty to produce good weapons
>>28016481
All those arrows had tiny demons inside them
obligatory swiss sabre
>>28015794
No, it's a trumpet
>>28013404
With the way that sword is secured it's basically the same as hitting the table directly.
1796 Heavy Cavalry sword would like a word with you
>straight edge for skewering your foes
>heavy weight for cleaving people in half
>Made of steel that doesn't have to be folded over thousands of times to be not shit
>Hand guard for punching people in the face
>Not weebshit
>>28019650
>>28019887
>>28016536
These are the correct answers
a hewing spear is far superior to knifes, swords, axes, clubs, etc.
>>28012763
How about a crowbar?
>easily obtainable
>durable
>multipurpose
>don't need to sharpen it
>more than enough stopping power to take down most adversaries
Swords are sexy af, but they aren't the most practical weapons.
>>28019250
>>28017700
>>28014225
Totally a much thicker heavier sword in the second image.
You guys just don't respect true Damascus steel!
>>28012763
>The /k/atana is the superior sword, second to the 17th century rapier.
>ftfy
>>28013579
>sword license
ccw down my pants. i can't walk right, but bad guys shit themselves once i finally get the thing out
>>28022749
This thread isn't about polearms or anything but swords.
>>28016527
A knife isn't a dagger. Daggers are much larger and usually have a crossguard, central ridge and a pommel.
Someone wielding a dagger vs someone with a knife... ill vote the guy with a dagger would sustain a few slashes to the wrist or forearm if he knows what he is doing.
>>28023306
>Subject: Ultimate Melee Weapon
>>28023352
Oh yea.... your right. Ok. Yup spear or halberd then lol.
>>28012763
I heard that Japanese soldiers wielding katanas were able to effortlessly slice through the hull armour of Sherman tanks! They cut the barrels off with singular swings, and it was as easy as beheading an Australian.
>>28023277
not really second gif looks like a longsword to me typical weight was 1.2 to 1.4 kg same as the katana really the difference in blade geometry explains how the european sword is longer. also good part of the weight came from the pommel in europen swords a feature katanas lacked. so lot more steel in those blades.
that they perform so pitifully is doubly shameful if all these things are considered.
>>28023533
pommels main job was to keep handle together,
> most pommels hollow.
> balance kept in check by distal taper.
> what is weighting.
>>28016712
>"ultimate melee weapon"
Halberd
>facing 2+ opponents
Halberd
>Suppose you have to kill somebody and dispose of his corpse very quickly and in a silent way.
Not melee combat.
>>28017911
My nigga
Katanafags btfo
>>28023812
how do you even use one of those?
>>28012763
That's all well and good, But you realize that for its time period the Katana was more a weapon for self defense, Instead the primary arm would have been something along the lines of a Naginata (essentially a Katana blade on a spear), a Tachi (A two handed, 2 foot long Katana) Or the fucking Bow...
The Katana was a last resort weapon for when your opponent was too close for comfort, and other than ceremony, parade, or just being out in public the Samurai would use anything else unless he was dirt fucking poor...
Hell, Even when it was the primary weapon (not in armor.) it only became the primary arm, and even then it had a backup for self dense (the wakizashi), or the Tanto.
and dont even get me fucking started on how sword fighting wasnt about fucking clashing sword blows one after the fucking other like in the movies. Your fucking Katana was a piece of shit that only ever saw combat if you where jumped on the street, or where too fucking poor to afford a proper fucking spear, and last i checked the samurai got their shit stomped in pretty hard the moment firearms came into play...
Also, its Saturday night and im drunk, And not feeling like re-reading any of the filch i just posted.
also i liked axes better. Fucking axes and Norsemen vikings and shit too.
Pls post the "cute-anya" copypasta
>PLEASE
>>28013794
> Brute force strikes
Please fucking kill yourself.
>>28023945
>But you realize that for its time period the Katana was more a weapon for self defense
Drunkenly assaulting foreigners isn't self-defense
>>28016712
>Will you choose a gun? No, of course not
If you have a gun and use an inferior weapon instead then you deserve what you get
>>28017911
It's beautiful
>>28012907
Wow, came here to post this. Its good seeing nice taste so early
>>28013926
Well, the arrows are supposed to be magic and the helicopters piloted by vampires.
>>28023214
Crowbars aren't great as a weapon, they're good at bashing in stuff and breaking into crates and stuff like that though
best melee weapon= longsword
1. doubled sided blade for longevity and versatility
2. hand guard can be used as a strike weapon when using the murderstroke technique
3. pommel can also be used as a strike weapon
4. fuller to insure strength and stability, prevents wobbling
5. made of good european steel, not pig iron like katanas
6. weight focused near the fulcrum, faster than axes/maces
7. longer than axes/maces
8. easy to carry around
>>28027180
katana
1. single sided, if i gets chipped up, you're fucked
2. hand guards cant be used as strike weapons
3. no pommels
4. no fullers
5. made out of pig iron
6. weight focused near the fulcrum, faster than axes/maces
7. longer than axes/maces
8. easy to carry around
Forgot 9. can be used two handed and one handed
longsword= 9/9
katana= 4/9
>>28027180
>best melee weapon= longsword
It was used primarily against other armored opponents, grabbing the blade and basically cross-checking each other. Wrestling and trying to stick your pointy end into the joints or where ever the armor is weak or exposed. If un-armored, forearms exposed from deflections or thrusts. Mediocre slashing weapon, decent thrust but a bit heavy for single handed. Many defensive stances and techniques to wrestle your opponent down.
>>28027430
>katana
Used primarily against non-armored oppoents.
If it gets chipped, it's not fucked. Always used with 2 hand grip. Never used to wrestle your opponent to the ground, just to deliver a fatal wound as quickly as possible. Don't use crossguards because no blocks, only deflections. Almost entirely offensive teqnique. Chudan only... 'kinda' defensive stance. Gedan is NOT defensive...
>Rapier
Massive reach, very quick, fantastic wrist and forearm protection.Used against unarmored opponents. one handed, usually off hand weilding a dagger w/ crossguard. Perfect thrusting, mediocre slashing weapon. Basically one handed spear.
imo, Rapier > Katana&Longsword.
>>28023214
>more than enough stopping power to take down most adversaries
>Swords are sexy af, but they aren't the most practical weapons.
Crowbars have little reach and the ones with more reach, the more weight. They don't have to be sharpened but then you might as well just carry a fire axe... which still has no thrust. The smaller your reach, the more lines you leave exposed for your attacker to take advantage of. You want your weapon to be between you and your opponent. The time you take to wind up or prepare your crowbar sweep of destiny, your opponent has less distance and more time to thrust a weapon to your throat.
It's better than nothing but ideally, a thrusting weapon that makes a cushion of space between your opponent's weapon is the best.
Swinging axes, claymores, katanas are fine weapons by all means, delivering fatal blows but they are slow to a thrust and leave lines exposed everywhere.
>>28024131
>Drunkenly assaulting foreigners isn't self-defense
since fucking when
>>28012763
>>28027577
Spoken like a true fucking amateur.
Katana was used like a HEMA longsword in kenjutsu, you fuckshit. And like European warfare, grappling and aiming for unarmored parts is the same principle both sword users who fought armored enemies in East and West had.
Katana was not always used with a 2 hand grip, and this goes to show how much of a fucking amateur you are.
The crossguards for the katana are designed the way they are because of a simple reason that you would know if you cross-trained with both HEMA longsword German and some kenjutsu ryuha. It's not that they are for offense only, or that it only functions with deflections.
Rapier has some weaknesses, especially when fighting multiple opponents. It's not simple to say it's better than either longsword or katana.
>Best
Pole hammer
>Second best
Spear
>Favorite
Fire axe
>Underrated
Chainsaw spear
I truly and sincerely don't think there's such a thing as an ultimate melee weapon until we can invent a variable output beam claw weapon like the Protoss have for their Zealots.
>>28028283
wut
>>28028009
Both will need reforging. And in the second part of the video he uses two European swords that results in one needing reforging and the other one breaking in two.
That's cute OP...
>>28020558
Pros:
Sharpe uses one
Cons:
Nothing
>>28027668
when you thrust you expose yourself no matter what weapon you use it's usually done exploiting an opening and delivering a fatal hit.
crowbars are shit compared to any and all traditional melee weapons their grip balance weight distribution and weight per reach is simply awful for combat. even a baseball bat would perform better.
rapier is a bit later development much better quality steel was used otherwise the weapon would have been useless. it's true tho i wouldn't want to go in an unarmored duel against a rapier with any sword. well the zweihander would probably check the rapier guard right thru at the tip it had insane radial speed and formidable weight behind it and it was not at all slow.
>>28023306
Except for the dozen or two posts about polearms scattered about above yours ITT.
>>28027180
you don't want to bring a sword into a polearm fight
>>28020558
or if you have the skill a 1796 light cavalry saber.
lighter and a little handier but cuts like a bastard
>>28029650
Actually, you do want to bring a sword to a polearm fight, at your side, then you can also have a knife at your opposite side and a polearm in your hands as the first weapon.
Only an amateur or a poor chap that has nothing to do in a battle brings a single weapon to a fight.
>>28029981
yeah obviously but they did not bring very refined swords as backup alongside polearms a pikemans sword was more akin to a landsknecht sword just a cheap slab of unrefined steel with a strong guard.
>>28028238
>They are they way they are because of a reason im not going to enlighten you with.
>Unaware katanas were used in defense in japanese warfare. polearms and ranged were used to attack.
>rapier has some weaknesses but im not going to specify what.
>>28028656
Of course, but you can limit how much you expose when thrusting or slashing.
Has Anyone else seen the documentary about this sword? I'm not into swords, but I found it fascinating.
>>28030959
Yeah it really makes me question whether someone knows what they're fronting about when they say "reason that you would know if" and then don't do the big reveal. Big fucking troll.
>>28031227
Yes I have seen it and it's one of my favorites on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6woycxQzA0
>>28027180
Longsword fags are really the biggest retards in history. Even worse than katanafags.
You idiots do know they got replaced by rapiers and sabers in every single army right?
>>28031543
when better steel was available sure. longsword was king of late medieval rapier was best in early modern. big step in metallurgy and technology there. katanas traditionally were shit cause shit steel and primitive sword-making techniques. many katana fags fail to realize the katana only had one edge and was bent in the process of heat treat because that is all the japs could make.
>>28031598
No you fucking idiot. Nips were making swords that were literally longswords before switching to curved blades.
They had two edges and a guard.
Go read what actual European swordsmen of the period thought about Katana. They were considered very good high quality swords. The "shit nippon steel" crap cam from the shit quality mass produced WW2 katanas.
>>28012763
good, but not as good as the Ninjato
Same idea, but the Ninjato is more practical, and requires less training
amateurs, all of you.
>>28028607
the kukri... mah nigga
>superior range
>superior maneuverability
>superior speed by utilizing quick thrusts
>easy to parry slow ass sword swings
>can be combined with a knife to dominate close range combat
A fucking pointed stick is the best melee weapon.
>>28031656
and they were shit because of the shit steel they could only make serviceable swords single edged the curve was a direct result of the heat treat of asymmetrical blade cross section
later on they probably even played on it.
>>28031543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r7VWIQCHvM
rapier guy gets rekt often enough tho in armored combat his chances would be even worse as the long sword could really open up it's game with swift powerful strikes as glancing blows would be no more concern.
>>28031598
Traditionally crafted swords have high quality steel.
In WWII the government contracted out requisitions by smiths who were not familiar with traditional sword crafting and since steel was expensive due to the war, had only pig iron to deal with and hammer presses.
Traditional katanas were ahead of their time in crafting and quality. Even now, to get your hands on a traditionally crafted katana costs a few months and a few thousand bucks.
That being said... it take a rapier made from pig iron than a traditional katana any day.
>>28031819
japan had no high quality steel period
they had only shit steel and even shittier steel.
they made the majority of their katanas of pig iron.
>>28031825
>japan had no high quality steel period.
Pig iron: crude iron as first obtained from a smelting furnace, in the form of oblong blocks.
Tamahagane is made of iron sand, brittle by design.
>>28031825
It's partially true, your definition of Katana isn't shared by the japanese. Swords made untraditionally for the war are called showato, not katana.
>they made the majority of their showato of pig iron.
ftfy
>>28031959
dude tamahagane is shit it was only good quality in japan and not exactly good there either. it's hard and brittle. not really blade material.
a sword made of tamahagane would break the first time it's smacked to an other. it's incomparable to european quality steels.
japanese swords were made by forge welding pig iron to this brittle shit sometimes using an iron between them in carbon content as side.
the entire process results in a shit sword that can cut through some serious shit nevertheless and will not break easily but will be short heavy curved and not good for parrying.
>>28032013
all traditional katanas are made of pig iron in at least 50 and up to 70%
>>28012763
Ask the ones who conquered a good chunk of the world when melee was a huge part of warfare.
Roman gladius, heavy and short, damage and maneuverability.
>>28013785
Even samurai (who would be wearing katanas all the time) would rather use a yari, naginata, and mostly bows. Katana was more of a symbol of the samurai caste, and later on it became a weapon that could be used for self defense and duels for people not wearing armor.
>>28032096
also not to forget war "katanas" were heavier and thicker than civilian ones and could been used on armored opponents from horseback or in duels much like cavalry sabers.
funny word the katana it was not actuality used they had like 50 words for various subtly (for us) different types of japanese swords.
>>28032096
Pretty much. Even many of the more legendary samurai from their last great war rarely used theirs. Honda Tadekatsu was famous for using his spear and this guy boasted over 100 battles without even having sustained a serious wound.
>>28031543
you're a retard
sabers and rapiers came into popularity because of GUNS. guns rendered armor useless.
as a MELEE weapon, longswords are better than rapiers and sabers
