After lurking this board for the last 4 months I have gotten the impression and have started to believe that the .45 is insufficient for self-defense roles.
Please help me understand the advantages that this cartridge has over other calibers like the 9mm, aside from capacity.
>>27913259
it's bigger, and leaves a bigger wound channel. It's slower, but good defensive rounds all penetrate to about the same depth, so it's not really relevant.
you're a fucking moron if you think it's insufficient for self defense.
Well, if you ever time travel back to 1910 and have guard duty in the Philippines during the Filipino Insurrection, you may find the Colt 1911 to be pretty handy against raging, drug-fueled local tribesmen who haven't yet learned their children and grandchildren will be allowed to join the US Navy and run the fucking day-to-day operation, be supply chiefs, and mumbling weirdos who sit behind phones all day. They will attempt to scalp your young ass and remove your skin. The .45 is there to help as these bastards charge your post.
So yeah, the .45 is useless for self defense. Go ahead and shoot yourself in the foot, and watch and laugh as the bullet bounces off your sweet keds, or whatever the fuck you loudmouthed, opinionated, "oops, I'm triggered! Get me to my safe space!" manboys are wearing this week.
>>27913259
Insufficient? No
Poor choice in most cases? Yeah.
>>27913259
>>27913341
>>27913323
This.
>>27913351
>>27913361
Are you fucking serious? Is this why 1911s are single stacked?
The only people who have a problem with .45 are people who bought something else first.
Or people who realized they need at least 20 shots under stress to get a round on target, which contrary to popular /k/ 9m owner belief, isn't everyone.
![45versus9mm[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/a3TYzXC.jpg "45versus9mm[1].jpg")
>>27913386
are you fucking stupid?
>>27913391
I concur.
I actually like both rounds, for different reasons.
>>27913386
are you retarded or just pretending?
>>27913386
Yeah.
That's totally not .50AE and .32ACP.
>>27913386
No that's .50 African Eliminator compared to what looks to be a .380.
>>27913391
Meanwhile you have idiots who think that you shouldn't have enough ammo on hand, as reasonably possible because Tyrone doesn't roll with his boys and one wouldn't flip out and try attacking you when you pump his chest with full of copper.
>>27913391
>intentionally giving yourself fewer rounds in a self defense situation for literally no benefit
Wew lad
>>27913317
Except that those conflicts predate the 1911. The .45 round made famous in the moro rebellion and the phillipines conflicts was the .45 Colt which was far more powerful than the anemic .38 Long Colt in use at the time.
>>27913259
Not sure if troll but fuck it. .45 I'd just fine and in some cases better than 9mm. The main complaint 9mm fags have is that mag capacity is less with .45, and sure with modern technology your hollow point 9mm is comparable to you're average .45, but when you start getting up into .45 super it's not even close, the .45 is vastly superior in pretty much every way at that point. To boil it down in most cases it doesn't matter. 9mm and .45 will kill dead pretty much everyone you shoot with it, you just have to decide if more rounds or more power is what you want. Personally I'd say carry what you shoot best. Myself I usually carry my Glock 20 which is in 10mm and has a standard mag capacity of 15 rounds, but I also carry my 1911 in .45 which holds 8+1 total and I feel fine with it too. If I had a shoulder rig I'd probably carry my sig p226 in 9mm occasionally too. In the world of guns shot placement is king and everything else is icing on the cake.
>>27913409
>>27913416
>>27913412
>>27913433
>>27913501
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is icing.
>>27913435
>I'm this faggot.
>>27913259
well a little backstory.
>First gun .357 686
>2 9mm BHP
>3 12g m500
>4 SW 4506 45acp
So in my experience starting 357 is a beast of a caliber maybe too much recoil bang and flash for HD in an appartment. Then loading it with 38spl was almost in the same category as a 9mm, so i got the BHP.
)mm after the 357 was like a 22lr, great control and excellent capacity 15 rdsetc. Then it occured to me i dont need to shoot a guy 15 times to bring him down, so i went with a shotgun. We all know the benefits of it.
So finally i said well im gonna go with 45acp, maybe not so much capacity as the 9mm, better control over the 357 mag and hopefully i wont need more than 9 shots.
So theres my rationale behind it, i still have all the other guns and enjoy them and trust my life in them, but what suits your particular needs at any given moment and lets you train efficently is good enough.
>>27913570
Was this even English?
.45 ACP is heavy and slow. It's not as effective against armored targets but if Jamal is coming at you wearing a plate carrier then you've got bigger problems.
Unless your target has a real trauma plate, anything you throw at them in terms of damage caused against some kind of ballistic material will be reduced, but taking shots in the chest will ruin their day regardless of penetration.
You will cause far more damage with a .45 ACP than a 9mm, but it comes down to comfort of shooting and shot placement. Most people talk 9mm double stack purely because you can throw more lead at the target than most .45 ACP can even hold. Almost 30-70% more shots in some cases.
.45 ACP is ideal if you are comfortable with open carry, however a compact .45 ACP handgun is going to be relatively uncomfortable and have very limited capacity.
.45 ACP is meant for a full sized carry. 9mm is much better suited for concealed carry.
>>27913625
>You will cause far more damage with a .45 ACP than a 9mm
>far more damage
No
>>27913386
Watch out, anon, you're revealing your ignorance. You're not in the minority, though - half of the people on /k/ are mostly clueless, opinionated noguns.
>>27913590
Well, im not a native english speaker, so what did you not understand? So i can clarify it
>>27913652
Pretty sure if I'm reading correctly you don't need to clarify, you're an idiot.
>>27913635
Yes
>>27913635
Yes
And as a bonus the added inertia will allow better penetration through clothing and cover
That said, a quality 9mm +p load will outperform some garbage Tula .45
Get what you like, both should work fine for most any reasonable self defense situation you are likely to encounter
>>27913660
Why do you need to insult someone else over this? Do you have any experience with the .45 acp to share with the others?
What did you not understand regarding my first post?
>>27913682
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk
No.
45fagstupid
>>27913590
reading is a skill
>>27913693
>And as a bonus the added inertia will allow better penetration through clothing and cover
Funny, how come Level IIA stops .45 but some types of 9mm can penetrate? Funny, how come you don't know what sectional density is? How come you don't know what contact surface area in relation to penetration is? Why are you typing if you're this fucking retarded?
Also, see >>27913702 and baww.
>>27913697
I have experience with .45, my experience however is anecdote and doesn't mean shit, much like yours. The fact you actually considered .22 for self defense tells me you don't actually research things.
Friendly reminder that the average amount of shots fired in a self defense situation is 2-3 bullets.
Almost universally people who shoot more than that are just firing wildly until the magazine is empty.
Just shows you what kind of people the "9mm I need muh capacity" carriers are.
>>27913702
>33 minute video
You can fuck right off
>>27913749
Quick correction, meant level II
>>27913760
>im too buttmad to be proven wrong
This is you.
>>27913756
You're right!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tkMYoOLAhk
Only prepare for the best case scenario, that'll save you.
>>27913259
>>27913259
A .45 vs 9mm thread. You don't see these much any more...
Hey .45 fudds, how is internet in the nursing home?
>>27913507
I don't get it. Is that "trolling" now?
>>27913756
>Friendly reminder that the average amount of shots fired in a self defense situation is 2-3 bullets.
Yeah, per person. What if I get rushed by 3-4 people trying to mug me and I look around the corner and there's fucking zombie Hitler with King George demanding I pay back the price of tea lost in Boston harbor?
>>27913259
.45 deflects less than .40 or 9mm when going through things like auto glass. That is .45's main advantage vs the other two. It also is larger so it doesn't need to rely on expansion to transfer energy as much as 9mm or .40.
Disadvantages are cost, size and weight of loaded ammo, and recoil. Guns in .45 generally don't hold as many rounds (inb4 FN45) either. So unless you are shooting through something like autoglass it really doesn't do anything noticeably better than 9mm.
>>27913789
If your argument is you want to fend off a platoon of attackers, you're already retarded for using a handgun.
>>27913773
>I can't defend my own claim so I'm just going to link him to a video
Play in traffic retard
>>27913259
>After lurking this board for the last 4 months I have gotten the impression and have started to believe that the .45 is insufficient for self-defense roles.
You're an idiot. K hates everything. Most people who post on here are video games fags or little kids who take their dad's guns out and jerk off when he's at work.
The difference between pistol calibers isn't enough to argue about, especially for a nogun shithead.
>>27913789
>demanding I pay back the price of tea lost in Boston harbor?
with inflation or without?
>>27913821
>3-4 people
>platoon
>muh slippery slope
Retarded people sure are retarded.
>>27913808
>transfer energy
>relevant with pistols
You wha?
FBI does auto glass tests to meet standards for their organization and have switched to 9mm.
>>27913822
The fuck? Are you really this retarded? You want my anecdote over actual real evidence and research from medical professionals? Holy fuck mate you need to be 18 or older to post here.
>>27913774
It's quite nice. I have enough bandwidth to watch that livestream of your mum being fucked by a horse ;^)
>>27913847
With inflation.
You think your 7+1 will stop him now?
>>27913773
>Posts video of an ATTACKER desperately trying to MURDER someone using all of their bullets because the person wont die
>Thinks that if the shooter in this video was using .45 instead of .22 he still would have had to have shot all of his rounds after the first one or even two hit.
You're dumb
>>27913863
yeah, because I have 10 mags from cmp. surely you realize that the chances you'll need to shoot 15+ rounds without having any opportunity to reload isn't very likely, right?
>>27913881
But what about zombie Hitler? And he's holding a gas bill!
>>27913854
>uses "what if there EVEN MORE attackers than 1 or 2 which is almost the entirety of self defense cases besides isolated incidents,"
>"But adding more people is a slippery slope!"
Then quit climbing it if you can't reach the top faggot.
>>27913875
>.22
.38 moron, I like that you're damage controlling by acting retarded now though, I heartily accept your defeat.
>>27913914
You don't even know what a slippery slope is? Jesus, I accept your defeat too lel.
I mean seriously, you guys are retards if you think having more shots is a bad thing.
>>27913881
>>27913893
fuck me i gotta upgrade my EDC to handle this shit
I carry .45 because a 9mm can expand to a .45 but can still has a very slight chance to fail and make a 9mm hole.
.45 will always make .45
>inb4 hole size doesnt matter
then why do people always recommend hollow points to expand the wounds?
>>27913808
This post is a gem in a pile of shit.
>>27913259
Hallow points because 3/4" spead.
http://cdn4.ammoforsale.com/skin/frontend/ammoforsale2/default/images/static-category/45acp/expansion_of_bullets.jpg
Mouser rounds that are just bb's in a plastic case that opens up, best hand held exterminator that won't break past drywall. You hafta fill the holes though.
http://www.oldammo.com/45ShotSection.jpg
That silly zipline round that you can clip birds with, loses so much velocity it may as well be a shotgun round.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/30/smallbusiness/multiple-impact-bullet/
It's the fattest round you can care to handle an autoloader with one hand. Unless you go with ,460 rowland, you've got the best budget width-cartridge you can manage.
The other part is that with heavy bullets, the spring setup is in such a way that most .45acp guns will cycle themselves even if you limp-wrist the gun. Most 9mm will fail 1/2 of their shots or more if you limp wrist it. Save for a few examples with unique functions like delayed blowback.
.45 is nice, but get it for its strengths. People bitch "muh capacity" but in reality they are happy with 5 shot bolt actions so you be the judge.
So how about a .460 revolver for home defense?
![hst[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SZsMwrE.jpg "hst[1].jpg")
>>27913944
you sound very uneducated.
>>27913944
One big factor of expanding ammunition is simply to reduce the risk of overpenetration.
It IS a factor though, bigger permanent cavity, larger outlet for blood loss, more tissue destruction, nothing is wrong with this. The issue comes from what the tradeoff is. Which is more overall tissue destroyed, say 10 rounds of 9mm hollowpoints, or 7 rounds of .45 hollowpoints. You can argue quicker follow up shots, more comfortable shooting, all this extra stuff but at the end of the day it IS and always will be a tradeoff.
Size of the bullet largely doesn't affect one stop shots anyway, more that's a shot placement issue, and since the 9mm will offer more chances, you have more forgiveness to land those shots.
And I know hur dur learn to aim, yeah you too, learn to aim while your buddy is stabbing you or throwing you to the ground, makes sense.
Have fights been stopped just by barely nicking a vital? Sure, are they the majority? No, so it just deals in tissue destruction, a component that will likely not end a fight quick enough at self defense ranges.
>>27913988
I dunno, why not just get an intermediate rifle, SBR, praced AR/AK pistol, etc?
>>27913988
You may as well run .44 magnum if you go revolver. Because that's supposed to be the .460 rowland selling point, a shorter .44 magnum that fits in your grip magazine.
>>27913988
325gr buffalo bore 45 long colt, or deer grenade 45 long colt.
either will ruin someone's day.
>>27913635
WOOP
WOOP
WOOP
Here comes the tard'bulance
Woop Woop Wooop
Take this man away! he suffers full retardation.
>>27913854
.45 ball has a larger meplat than .40 or 9mm so tissue crush/permanent wound cavity. Sometimes HP's fail to expand and when they do, .45 has an edge.
As far as autoglass, what don't you understand? Cop's shoot though it from time to time and smaller projectiles deflect and deviate from their path when they strike surfaces like glass when the surface isn't perfectly perpendicular to the bullet (which is always). Laminated auto safety glass is one of the worst about this and its in every car.
9mm has a higher deflection angle than .40 which deflects more than .45 because larger heavier rounds care less about what they hit due to physics. This is one of the true advantages of .45 (and .40) over 9mm and no super wonder bullet can really change this. .45 deflects less than .40 or 9mm when it travels though a barrier. This is a VERY narrow advantage and really it only pops up when you need to shoot a person in a car. I personally don't think the advantages out weigh the disadvantages of .45 in a service pistol.
>>27913952
thank you
>>27914030
>>27914044
I was jsut wondering why People dont go with fuckhuge Revolvers, is it because the energy of the larger calibers only serves to overpenetrate?
Lets say I had some Kind of hollow Point bullet in a .500, how much more would that ruin somebodys day than a .45acp?
>>27913858
I bet the horse dick penetrated more than .45ACP
>>27913749
Maybe it was not clear enough but i wanted to say in comparison to 357, the 9mm recoil was pretty much like a 22lr. Tame that is... I would never suggest a 22lr for self defense only if it was the only weapon you could get.
i dont belive anecdotal evidence is shit, in certain aspects is based on real facts...
For example: perceived recoil, from variables as particular gunpowder flash, amount of db. to the percived recoil you can train yourself to certain degree to control it.
So you cant say the only recoil there is is mecanical
>>27913927
Pointing out you calling the SAME argument you made a slippery slop being stupid as fuck isn't "not understanding"
and it was a .22, stop TRYING to be stupid.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/COURTHOUSE+SHOOTING+WOUNDED+LAWYER+RELEASED+FROM+HOSPITAL.-a0109735914
>>27914064
Nice retort, but you never disproved anything and my sources still stand, mad you got btfo? =)
>>27914103
What do you mean what don't I understand? What don't YOU understand, FBI switched to 9mm and recommended every law enforcement agency do the same. They know more than you, and actually test for these situations, sorry. They figured out modern 9mm loads available don't have a significant enough issue to warrant using .45
Of course if a 9mm failed to expand .45 may have an edge, if .45 failed to expand same diff, if they both worked as intended, .45 will likely end up crushing more tissue, too bad you don't end fights this way. If you want your opponent to bleed out for the next 30 minutes instead of 40 minutes maybe, but pistols suck all around, you need those vital shots and 9mm lets you have more opportunities.
>>27914124
>i dont belive anecdotal evidence is shit
Well that's why you're not exactly winning this debate, your personal experience in the real world, means nothing, at all, you are insignificant, and so am I. Bring up some well documented testing, results, evidence, etc, yeah that's hard to dispute, but your personal experience is 100% unscientific and not to be trusted.
You can train yourself to manage forms of recoil and noise, but that doesn't mean there is physically less recoil or noise in one gun vs another, shits repeatable bro.
>>27914150
>In the emergency room I was told I had been hit with five bullets. I learned later that the bullets were .38 caliber. The first shot went in the right side of my neck and lodged in the back of my neck next to the spinal column. My doctor informed me that the bullet had missed my carotid artery by about half an inch. If it had hit the artery, I would have bled to death in one to two minutes. He also said the bullet missed my spine by about one inch. If it had severed the spine, I would have been a quadriplegic.
>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1108944/posts
k
>>27914107
people don't go with revolvers because you have very limited capacity, and the cylinder limits how easily you can conceal them.
a sw500 will fuck someone up pretty badly, but it's overkill, and you'll probably over penetrate.
you could shoot someone point blank with a 20mm cannon if you wanted to, but there's not really much point in it.
>>27913893
>gas bill
Muh sides
>>27914160
Mother fucker can you even read?
OP's question was,
>After lurking this board for the last 4 months I have gotten the impression and have started to believe that the .45 is insufficient for self-defense roles.
>Please help me understand the advantages that this cartridge has over other calibers like the 9mm, aside from capacity.
Their are TWO advantages to .45 over 9mm and .40
1. it deflects less when going though barriers
2. Its bigger and has a bigger permanent wound cavity when using HP's and when using ball
He asked a question and you come and start shitposting. Yes i know the FBI switched to 9mm and i don't fucking care. Yes i know that a slightly larger hole in someone won't magically make them lose blood pressure much faster, and i know that shot placement is king but everything i said is still true because physics. OP asked a question and its wasn't, "Please shitpost about how 9>.45 k thanks."
>>27914361
I can read, I don't give a shit, I'm just making sure you're educated and no the "advantage" you purport isn't an advantage in any actual real world sense.
Looks fine on paper, doesn't actually mean shit when you need to start taking shots at people.
>>27914217
Someone post the 20mm home defense story. Please.
>>27913323
>Poor choice in most cases? Yeah.
Lets all start packing 22 revolvers then.
Lets more blood OUT
Lets more air IN.
>>27913774
With a 200 grain Gold Dot +P load, pretty damned lively. I'm throwing supersonic copper plated shot glasses at people.
And you?
>>27914851
As long as it's a ten shot S&W 617 with speedloaders, I'm down.
>>27913528
I, literally, don't see anything wrong with that.
>In b4 You also use the word, "literally," unironically.
>>27917974
You need to learn how to use commas.
>>27914838
Seconded, I'm on my phone and can't. I believe that this might help this thread along nicely.
>>27913386
Git out
>>27914030
He meant .460S&W, Faggot.
>>27913501
Comparing 9mm Hollow Point to .45 ACP is the /k/ equivalent of comparing apples and Liberace. Sure both of them are fruit but what they do is completely different. 9mm HP is still less than, when compared to .45 ACP HP
>>27913789
Well your fucked unless you can channel the spirit of Bruce Lee or carry a MP5k in your invisible knapsack
>>27913637
Says noguns
>>27914030
.44 mag for self defense = instant death for attacker bullet goes through attacker and kills a bystander. .44 mag even in HP is WAY overkill like instead of running over a person with a Prius, it is running over someone with a freight train...of pain. Also even with HP at close range .44 will still go through a person.
>not packing a six 12
>>27913808
>(inb4 FN45)
Mine holds 18+1
>>27913808
>recoil
IDK about that, I feel like fuddy five has a more controllable recoil than 9, 9 feels too snappy
