U/k/raine thread.
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A lot has happend in the war between the seperatists and the Ukrainians on the frontiers of the Eastern Ukraine in the past couple of days.
It appears that the Ukrainian general offensive stalled and that the seperatists have launched a counteroffensive on their own and has seemingly broken through the southern lines of the Ukrainian army, surrounding various units and made a dash towards the coast, hugging the Russian border.
Source:
>>http://militarymaps.info/
http://militarymaps.info/
>>22539009
Here's some more info about the counter-offensive:
>>http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/70124.html
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/70124.html
How is it possible for the Ukrainians to suck this hard? I thought they were "guaranteed win it's only a matter of time now".
Better question is how did NATO think they'd win a proxy war against russia by half-assing it?
The rebels aren't fucking around and the Ukr military doesn't give that much of a shit because they are only fighting for $300 a month and for an IMF puppet regime. Most of these people aren't even close to fighting condition let alone physical condition to run a mile.
>>22539196
shitty reason for fighting
bombing your own people
making russia angry
politicians fighting wars instead of generals
whole country is a shithole
etc
there's lots of reason
>>22539293
>NATO
>half assing it
NATO isn't involved. This is Ukraine vs Putin's puppets.
>>22539293
So, how much did you get played for that post, Ivan? So you still get played in potato juice?
>>22539196
Putin just keeps pouring men and material in
Ukraine can't outlast or overpower the steady drip-drip of Russian men and firepower
>>22539331
>>22539344
Anders Rasmussen plz
>>22539401
>starting a war on Russia's border
Somebody actually thought this was a good idea.
Wait so is the seppie breakout from around Donestk confirmed?
How far are the rebs from Mariupol?
Mariupol has several key facilities for Russia's defense industry so it's a prize for them
>>22539331
>western puppet vs russian puppet
fify
>>22539427
Several people thought it was a good idea. One of them was Putin, and for his part, well, it was a good idea.
>>22539196
An anon in the previous thread realy nailed it.
>>http://archive.heinessen.com/k/thread/22530727
http://archive.heinessen.com/k/thread/22530727
Pic = 1/3.
>>22539427
Yea. Couldn't have been Russia who did this. No, Noah, now way was it Putin. Not like he and Russia in general have a history of distabilizing countries around it and then sensing in forces of "peacekeeping, stabilization," or anything like that.
>>22539473
2/3.
>>22539481
Meh, the West let a bunch of ruthless Ukrainian oligarchs trick us into supporting their bid to "renegotiate" the corruption rackets in Ukraine with Putin because we had no set policy on it.
Putin saw the EU/NATO supporting a bunch of his enemies in his backyard and stepping into the most critical part of Russia's historical sphere of influence.
Imagine if some corrupt Mexican politicians mobilized big crowds in Mexico City and overthrew the government with support from China. Then America intervened. It's a lot like that. Who cares about "muh democracy muh sovereignty"
>>22539490
3/3.
>>22539481
Only when those territories are on the Russian border and the Russian leadership perceives them to be vital to the defense of Russia itself.
How the fuck is Ukraine sucking so hard? I thought they had a decent military. Where the fuck are all their troops?
>>22539436
>How far are the rebs from Mariupol?
See pic.
>>22539593
>I thought they had a decent military.
They didn't.
>Where the fuck are all their troops?
Running away.
>>22539009
>seperatists have launched a counteroffensive on their own
>ON THEIR OWN
Kek.
>>22539531
>EU
>NATO
>Putin
>Mexicans
All of these important words. All such horseshit.
The maidanfags chased away ONE Man. A single man. The rest of their senate remained in power and a council was set up to govern in his stead.
This also doesn't exain Crimea as there were green men there since day 1.
>>22539599
Thanks
Zaporizhia and Mykolaiv are also major potential targets for the Russians.
Zaporizhia is home to production of 90% of Russian helicopter engines and a plurality of their aircraft engines
Mykolaiv is home to a critical shipyard for the Russian defense industry, and the main export terminal for Rosobornoexport and its shell companies.
Source: I researched all this for my job
>>22539490
>nailed it
If you mean "completely ignored Russian interference and outright invasion", then yes, that's nailed.
>>22539723
>outright invasion
are we allready just makeing shit up?
>>22539669
Yeah, i've seen that typo aswell, i meant OF their own.
>>22539709
Oof, then retaking Mauriupol will be a gargantuan victory of Donetsk and Russia. More an important target i've realized!
>>22539723
>Russian interference and outright invasion
America does it too, so why can't Russia do the same?
>>22539815
Mariupol is also somewhat important because it has a shipyard too, but a much less important one than Mykolaiv
It's really surprising how much of Russia's defense infrastructure is in Ukraine, leftover from Soviet times. They can't allow Ukraine to join EU, because what if one day in the future the EU gets pissed at Russia and declares defense sanctions on them, as is already being discussed? Russia would lose a large part of its defense-industrial base, and defense export infrastructure. Almost all of this stuff is located in Russia-speaking eastern Ukraine
>>22539804
I guess Crimea didn't happen or anything like that.
>>22539804
Just ignore all those arms shipments going across the border
>>22539706
Isn't he dismissing parliament in October and "electing" a new parliament? Just like his buddy Yushchenko from 2004-2010? Western Ukraine just traded one oligarch for another, again, and the guys in the East are sick of it.
>>22539723
Are you really saying that it takes more than well motivated and well equipped (from Ukrainian surplus and more than likely some Russian surplus) guerillas to route a military that is out of shape, unpaid, terribly equipped, terribly motivated, and commanded by the equivalent of junior lieutenants? Because that is not a stretch at all.
>>22539906
So that means america basicly fought in afghanistan then?
>>22539893
crimea is long over i dont se how its influences the current fight takeing place it.
>>22539804
You are being willfully blind.
>>22539862
Then put it in the copypasta, don't pretend otherwise.
>>22539968
A lot of Russian equipment and trained men are coming across the border, in addition to artillery support. The weakness of Ukraine's military is immaterial to the facts.
>>22540051
They are most certainly activly supporting them but calling this and outright invasion is beyond retarded and from what i been trying to find out reading various news stories blogs etc nobody sems to have any clue what crosses the border at all.
I mean the ukranian goverment weekly report they have destroyed a russian collum after it crossed the border yet no evidence of that has surfaced.
>>22539968
>this guy may do X in the future!
yea, this caused Russia to annex Crimea and rebels to spring up in Ukraine's east....5 months ago?
>>22540121
I think at this point it's pretty clear that there's some Russian SF and probably some airborne infantry fighting in Donbass, and it's totally clear that Russian artillery is firing across the border to support the rebels
Personally I want the Russians to win, but let's not ignore the facts. There's been enough evidence, if you watch developments carefully.
Personally I think Russia has every right to do this, but there's no point in denying it.
>>22540051
See >>22540121
I haven't even seen evidence of Russian artillery support, but then I haven't been following the developments as the sep commanders update. The US media headlines I recall seeing stated that Russian artillery was shelling Donetsk, which I immediately took to mean that Ukraine was shelling Donetsk (civilian target) for the whole mass grave propoganda shenanigans later on.
I honestly don't care for Russia and hold the opinion that the AK-47 isn't a very nice looking gun, so I'm obviously not a slavaboo
But I get beyond irritated when reputable("reputable") think tanks like the Brookings Institution keep insinuating that Putin is the aggressor without even addressing NATO's role in this mess
>>22540121
Speakng of beyond retarded, it's you pretending it isn't happening. Or maybe that's just you lying.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/weapons-convoys-seen-rolling-eastern-ukraine
That's only one story. Plenty of heavy weapons have crossed the border. Plenty of stories if you care to search.
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-185-russian-airborne-forces-reportedly-captured-in-ukraine/#3889
NATO reports artillery being fired over the border. Sat pics were shown of the firing positions.
Don't play bullshit games.
>we do not support the rebels
>we are not providing supplies to the rebels
>we are not providing weapons to the rebels
>we do not train the rebels
>we do not let the rebels launch attacks from our territory
So are all of Putin's statements proven to be lies at this point?
>>22540261
Don't worry, he always phrases it in such a way that he can deny anything.
>We have never supplied equipment to the people who the Kiev government call "separatists"
>There is no artillery currently being fired into Ukraine
>>22540210
>NATO's role
....which would be?
>>22540154
Annexation and eastern uprising was a result of a violent revolution fueled by NATO that removed the oligarch who was more sympathetic to eastern Ukraine for one who is in the West's pocket. You are utterly deluded if you think this is nothing more than Ukraine coming together and singing "kum ba ya" over the scent of burning tires and then exercising their God given right of self determination.
>>22540299
>NATO
No proof. Like RIDF a hills love to say show me proof.
That one video commenting on how to best turn the events in Ukraine in US's favor? Not proof that this was instigated by the us., let alone NATO. The way you speak makes it even seem like you don't know what NATO is.
>>22540295
Moving farther east after they said they wouldn't, intentionally threatening Russian interests and pipelines, obvious handpicking of Ukrainian politicians
>>22540345
Cold War never ended.
NATO base in Ukraine = Russia gets fucked
>>22540204
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/opposite-of-opsec-russian-soldier-posts-selfies-from-inside-ukraine/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nBQJgwngWo
There's a lot more if you care to find it.
Really, there's no shame in it, Russia has every right to use force to defend its interests in its immediate backyard against illegal coups (or just at will, if we're being realistic about geopolitics)
But there's no point in denying that they're sending small numbers of troops in and shelling across the border
>>22540346
>EU depends on that gas
>hey guise, let's shoot ourselves in the foot by destabilizing a region vital to us!
>moving further east
How? No talk was had about Ukraine joining NATO... but guess ? Now everyone will be scrambling to join it after seeing that Big Brother Russia loves to do.
>>22540299
NATO had nothing to do with it. Ukrainians are just sick of being treated like Russia's bitch. If the separatists love Russia so much they can leave Ukraine and go live in Russia. It's not like there's no room there.
>>22540397
>russia isn't germoney's and the EU's biggest trading partner
>this sits well with washington
>NATO isn't controlled by the US
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
>Late February 2014 Anders Fogh Rasmussen reaffirmed NATO membership is still an option for Ukraine
>>22539009
You know whos fault this whole thing really is?
The clankers.
>feel with it
>>22540397
If Ukraine joined EU it would be one step away from joining NATO, and it would also put a vital part of Russia's defense industrial complex and defense export infrastructure under EU legal jurisdiction
Russia acted before things got to that point.
They're within their rights to keep dangerous enemy influence away from their borders and strategic regions.
Really, the Western Ukrainian oligarchs are at fault here. Tymoshenko, Yushchenko, Klitchko, Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko. These guys escalated the crisis because US/EU policy was confused and sluggish, they knew they had some support so they escalated the crisis to force the West to support them or look weak.
Yanukovych also acted the same way, somewhat. But mainly it was the Western oligarchs who pushed things to force the US/EU to support them
So any new combat videos?
>>22540233
Not even the guy you are arguing with, but you are a dumbass.
>>22539723
>If you mean "completely ignored Russian interference and outright invasion", then yes, that's nailed.
>outright invasion
Let me tell you about "outright invasion." Outright Invasion is what the US did to Iraq in 2003. We bombed the hell out of targets in their country with OUR planes, piloted by OUR men.
Then, we sent OUR soldiers, in OUR vehicles with OUR flags flying from them. We captured cities, and OUR soldiers declared them under OUR control. All this was done openly. You cannot hide an invasion and we didn't try to.
Now, let's compare this to your situation. Russians are not bombing your country. They may be sending supplies and vehicles, but there is no proof they have sent entire armies in. You are not anywhere close to experiencing the full power of the Russian military. Kiev can bullshit and make all the excuses they want, but the truth is that it is mostly your fellow countrymen that are kicking your ass, you are just too stupid to see that or too proud to admit it. Your armed forces are shit and you know it.
Your politicians scream MUH RUSSIANS because they cannot admit to the public how fucking incompetent and ill equipped they are; they use a Russian scapegoat to try and sweep the thousands they have killed and their dozens of failures under the rug.
>imblying im ukraaine
I really hope you are, then I could understand your ignorance of the facts with your blind patriotism. Anyone would have to be completely retarded to say Ukraine is under "outright invasion".
>>22540345
NATO, North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Formed as a way to unify US and western Europe military commands, with the specific goal of containing communism in Europe and stopping any aggressive military action by the Warsaw Pact in Europe. With the Warsaw Pact gone, the IS has used NATO as a tool to threaten Russia, as seen by the destabilization and division of balkan states followed by their induction into NATO. In addition, unified Germany, Poland, and the Baltic States have all been brought into NATO. The 2008 war in Georgia was fought specifically to prevent Georgia's entry into NATO.
As for NATO role in the uprising, there is a phone call tape that has been confirmed by one of the callers, the Estonian foreign minister, that states that the Maidan leaders have already selected who will make up the post-coup government, and confirms the that the Maidan snipers who western media claimed were government controlled were actually firing on both police and protesters in a false flag op. This recording is available on western, Russian, and independent news sight and is stated just after 8 minutes into the call. Add to this, the CIA currently occupies an entire floor at the top of Kiev's SBU building.
>>22540795
Why is America doing this? Russia is not a threat to them anymore, so why do they keep provoking them and being assholes?
>>22540711
>Ukraine captures Russian soldiers fighting with the separatists
>Ukraine claims to be fighting with elements of specific Russian units like the 76th air assault division
>numerous soldiers of the 76th air assault division mysteriously died very recently in "training" accidents
But Russia has none of its army in Ukraine :^)
>>22540992
Gas, same reason Syria was destabilized
This is a battle for the future of Europe
>>22540992
Your guess is as good as mine. As of right now, my speculation is the clay and the natural resources contained therein. Russia does hold a vast amount of the world's natural resources. In absence of anything else, all I can say is that NATO still exists despite its reason for existence having been gone for 23 years.
>>22540992
>Russia is belligerent for decades to its neighbors, effectively occupying all of eastern Europe
>any time said neighbors got the radical idea of being free of Russia, the tanks rolled in
>finally Russia(USSR) collapses and its neighbors get out from under Russia's boot
>said neighbors ask for help from big strong friendly NATO to keep Russia from reasserting its boot on their neck
But Russia is the victim and America is the asshole.
>>22541089
>and America is the asshole
We already confirmed this.
>>22541089
A very fair, objective, American way to look at it.
>>22541089
>joining nato
>being a proxy of israel
>>22541137
Feel free to correct any factual errors since you think it is an "American way" to look at it :^)
>>22541137
Just as fair and objective as the Russian way of looking at it. World history is filled with major powers being utter cocks to each other for little or no reason at all. Nobody is innocent here.
>>22541018
Read this
>>22540711
>it is mostly your fellow countrymen that are kicking your ass
>mostly
Once again, 1 Division =/= outright invasion, stop making excuses by claiming you are besieged by Russia.
That's even assuming it's a whole division over there, and not a small group of that division. Ukraine must be even more pathetic than I thought if it only takes one Russian division to fuck up their armies.
>>22541173
Is the foreign policy of Soviet Russia and Modern Russia really comparable?
>>22541089
>macro image
>16 yo view of geopolitics
no
>>22541222
>These countries belong to us, they are our buffer states who gives a fuck what they want.
Sounds the same to me.
when do I get to deploy and kill some russians? I am drooling
>>22541210
Did I use the word outright invasion? I said there were Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine.
>>22541233
>no rebuttal
>ad hominem
>into the trash you go
>>22541270
>more memes
no
>>22541205
The difference being that Russia has no history of destabilizing and bombing countries two oceans and a continent away from it in addition to doing the same thing to their smaller, weaker neighbors. The US by comparison has a long track record of this. That being said, smaller nations will pretty much always be bullied by bigger nations. History has shown us that, from the dawn of civilization to modern day.
>>22541270
>Did I use the word outright invasion?
You defended this post
>>22540233
with this post
>>22541018
I'm not really sure how you can even try to defend your argument anymore with posts of such low quality and substance.
My grandfather is a full blooded Ukrainian from the Carpathian mountains. When I ask him about the local conflict he actually sided with the Russians which is weird because from west Ukraine.
American by the way.
>>22541330
>The difference being that Russia has no history of destabilizing and bombing countries two oceans and a continent away from it in addition to doing the same thing to their smaller, weaker neighbors.
I guess if we only count Russian history starting at the Russian Federation.
>>22539706
>>22539531
I do find painful irony that my country is all 'respect elected leaders' (in non-rigged elections) when it is in their favor, and all supportive of rebels chasing leaders out of the country when we don't like their policies.
Now, I'm not saying that Putin isn't gleefully taking advantage of the situation, but there was a situation there without his help.
>>22541490
I could have worded that better. I am not denying that Russia messes with the internal affairs of its neighbors. My point is that compared to the USA's antics past and present in the Caribbean, Central and South America, and around the globe, Russia's history of intervention is quite benign.
>>22541018
Will Ukraine present this soldiers to international organizations? Because last time it was a hoax.
>>22541558
>benign
Are you fucking kidding me?
Estonia 1939
Latvia 1939
Lithuania 1939
Poland 1939-56
Baltics 1940-91
Finland 1940
Bessarabia, Bukovina 1940
Hungary 1956
Czechoslovakia 1968
Afghanistan 1979
Georgia 2008
Crimea 2014
>>22541585
https://twitter.com/MiddleEast_BRK/status/504006424377454592
>names
http://news.liga.net/photo/politics/3056131-obnarodovany_foto_voennykh_iz_rossii_zaderzhannykh_v_donbasse.htm#1
someone linked a couple of their VK pages in the comments as well
>>22541877
Cool. Will Ukraine present this soldiers to international organizations? Because last time it was a hoax.
>>22541558
The heck? The Cold War was pretty much built out of both countries dicking around with other countries.
>>22539196
they would have won by now if their former supplier wasn't supplying only their enemy now.
>>22541929
>if I keep saying "last time was a hoax" I do not have to acknowledge that these are Russian soldiers
)))
>>22541971
Awesome. Just wondering, will Ukraine present these soldiers to international organizations? Because last time it was a hoax.
How likely is it Ukraine might settle for letting the sepratists leave? Or are they in a position were they're guaranteed to win as long as they don't retreat for fuck up immensely?
>>22542070
>if I keep saying "last time was a hoax" I do not have to acknowledge that these are Russian soldiers
)))))))))))))))))
>>22542142
The latter.
>>22542229
Fantastic. Any outside, neutral, unbiased organizations confirming that these captives are Russian soldiers? I'm wondering because last time this happened, it turned out to be a haox.
>>22542298
Stop feeding the Ukrainian.
>>22542459
Stop feeding the troll.
>>22542229
He does have a good question, will Ukraine present these soldiers to international organizations along with their evidences?
Ukraine has been screaming about 150 tanks coming in from Russia and yet no photo/video evidence of the 150 tanks (inb4 someone posts 1 destroyed tank as evidence) and destroying a column of Russian tanks and yet still no photo/video evidence.
Other forums have already debunked the news posted because some pictures show the same guy yet tagged in different names. (Upper and Lower left of >>22541877 pic shows same guy yet Ukraine put in different names)
![Tet_Offensive_1968[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5ZetltJ.jpg "Tet_Offensive_1968[1].jpg")
I'm starting to find the similarities between this latest push and the Tet offensive interesting. A worn down guerrilla movement, widely viewed to be on its last legs, lashes out with a sudden and massive counteroffensive.
Of course, that brings out the question of if this attack is sustainable. Tet virtually wiped out the VC and severely depleted the NVA in a series of ill-advised attacks against heavily fortified US/ARVN positions. The only reason it was successful is because it scared off the American public, who wasn't prepared to continue the war any longer. Ukraine has a hell of a lot more to lose in this fight, they'll be much more willing to keep going in a bad situation.
>>22542499
Frankly there are a lot of claims from both sides about troop movements and encirclements and losses and gains that have no evidence beyond 1 destroyed tank as evidence.
The anon who keeps saying he doubts half the claimed battles have actually taken place is probably right.
>>22541330
>The difference being that Russia has no history of destabilizing and bombing countries two oceans and a continent away from it in addition to doing the same thing to their smaller, weaker neighbors.
weren't around for the cold war were you
why the fuck do you think africa is such a shithole these days
>>22541558
>Russia's history of intervention is quite benign.
you're mincing words? because you're using russia so i am assuming you're ignoring the russian empire and the soviet union.
>>22539473
>>22539490
>>22539537
That is very well written, however kinda reminds of one of late '80 Sovietology pamphlets. Listen: "USSR is big, powerful and can be reasoned with. Under Andropov/Gorbatchev leadership it is on the way to become a prospering country."
Whcih is utter bs, ussr/russia is a seeping ulcer that should be contained. Or isolated, like Reagan did. Unfortunately, European leaders have been stupid enough to make themsleves dependable on russian gas and oil.
>>22541847
Read better: >by comparison
The US list of dirty foreign laundry goes much longer.
First Barbary War, N. Africa 1801-1805
Second Barbary War, N. Africa 1815
1846-1848 Mexico
Japan 1854
China 1854
Chile 1891
Cuba 1898
Puerto Rico 1898
Guam 1898
Philippines 1898
Cuba 1901
Colombia 1903
Dominican Republic 1905
Cuba 1906-1909
Nicaragua 1909
Mexico 1914-17
Haiti 1915-34
Russia 1918-19
Nicaragua 1923-28
Chile 1920-1977 (under control of US corporations or puppet leader for entirety)
Tibet 1950
Korea 1950-53
Iran 1953
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Lebanon 1958
Cuba (Bay of Pigs) 1958
Iraq 1960
Congo 1960
Dominican Republic 1961
Vietnam 1965-73
Iraq 1972-75
Afghanistan 1979-89
Angola 1980s
Poland 1980
Nicaragua 1979-90
Cambodia 1982-88
Lebanon 1982-84
Iran-Iraq 1982-88
El Salvador 1980s
Grenada 1983
Libya 1986
Panama 1989
Kuwait-Iraq 1990-91
Somalia 1990
Haiti 1994-95
Bosnia 1995
Iraq 1996
Afghanistan 1998
Sudan 1998
Kosovo 1999
Afghanistan 2001
Iraq 2003-11
Yemen 2004
Pakistan 2004
Colombia 2000s
Libya 2011
Syria 2011
What's even more fun is that the USA's funding and support of extremist Islamic groups during the Cold War, and attempts to destabilize the more moderate ones, are responsible for the massive rise of Islamic terrorism and extremism that the world has seen in the 2000s. Al-Quaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, and so on were all born with the US government's blessing.
>>22539009
Putin was seen leading the charge into Mariupol
>>22542999
You don't seem to realize that the US has pulled its own shit in Africa, sometimes opposite the USSR and sometimes not. See >>22543387
>>22543018
No, I am including the USSR and Tsarist Russia. Tsarist imperialism ended at Alaska, Afghanistan, the Baltics, Poland, and the Ottoman Empire (though Russia likely would have taken it if they could have gotten away with it, but France and Britain refused to let another country in on their naval empires).
The USSR pre-World War II was preoccupied with regaining their buffer zpne with Europe nothing more. Post World War II, they once again regained that buffer zone with Europe as well as attempted to get the new communist regimes to form economic and political bonds with each other and essentially under Khrushchev repair the damage that Stalin had dealt to the international communist community. Interventions were undertaken in order keep the US from crushing these regimes, and to keep western influence out of the buffer zones.
>>22543387
Well if we are just listing everything lets not hold back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
>>22539473
Incredibly informative. Thank you for posting these.
>>22543520
lel the rebels will not make it to Mariupol, they were already stopped. Mariupol if firmly pro Kiev as well.
>>22539009
Shoulda made more T-84s niggas.
>>22543676
My original point still stands. The USA has engaged in far more imperialist ventures and regime changes than any Russian state, even all of them put together. The wars the US has been forced into fighting can be counted on one hand. War of 1812, Civil War, and World War II. But, the weak nations will be bullied by the strong, and the US was lucky enough to be surroundes by mostly weak nations on its own landmass, with an ocean on each side between it and any potential competitor.
>>22543843
A significant number of the countries you listed were holdings taken from Spain.
>>22541018
with proofs from facebook and twitter
>>22544592
>pro-ukie stuff on social media
LIES AND SLANDER!!!!!!
>pro-sep stuff on social media
GOOD LUCK STRELKOV!!!!!!
>>22544627
>Point out that they don't have proof about what they are saying
LIES AND SLANDER!!!
>Rebels actually provide photos and more sensible evidences to back up what they are saying
GOOD LUCK STRELKOV!!!!
>>22544663
>video of 3 guys legs and big boxes of cigs in their hands claiming to be deserters
>sensible evidence
>>22543748
Tell it to these guy, apparently they didn't get the memo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFdnnG35yC8
>>22545061
>can't provide shit himself or anything to back his pointless shit up
MUH PROOOOFS
haha, gtfo you dense faggot
>>22545152
>>22544592
Meant for this dumbass
???-1 813 / 2014-07-05 ??????????
>Donut BMP
>Already dead
RIP Donuts
Donetsk. Terrorists fired at the city.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WuuAOwGfvM#t=25
>>22541877
http://youtu.be/Hh9bBr_oIlc
http://youtu.be/pnluyd4s0p0
http://youtu.be/tR4viAfweHw
http://youtu.be/OCI2DX77G98
>>22542070
>>22541929
>>22541585
>>22542298
http://itar-tass.com/politika/1399996
>Defense Ministry: Russian servicemen accidentally crossed the stretch of the Russian-Ukrainian border
>accidentally
>deep into a combat zone
sep shills getting BTFO
>>22545472
Dat PKP. Dudes in the background picture are definitely Russian.
>>22545862
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/08/26/minobr/
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/26/08/2014/944974.shtml
http://www.interfax.ru/world/393265
http://russian.rt.com/article/47017
>RIDF faces when
>Russian Defence Min source to RIA: Soldiers were part of border patrol mission, crossed the border "by accident" and were detained.
>Fucking Ivan
>Fucking Ivan
>What?
>>22539009
Apparently according to a thread on /pol/ Russian soldiers from 76th Airborne landed by mistake in Ukraine territory and got captured.
>>>/pol/34703792
>>22546018
Yeah that's what the defence ministry is saying.
https://twitter.com/russian_market/statuses/504177478890700801
>Russian servicemen captured in Ukraine by mistake - Defence Ministry Source
>>22546037
> VDV
> Patrolling border
kek
> Captured in heart of fierce fighting near Amvrosievka village
> Dozens of VDV killed during process of Ilovaysk blockade attempt
kek
RIDF BTFO
>>22543676
300 years head start for Russia and USA still wins
#1 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1 #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOaGgY2yUHw
Glory to VDV
>>22546058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_E6YSQqTo
)
Ukraine's security service said its military had captured the 10 Russian paratroopers near the village of Dzerkalne, about 50km (30 miles) south-east of the rebel-held city of Donetsk and about 25km from the Russian border.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28934213
>>22546048
>>22546037
>>22546018
>>22546009
>>22545881
>>22545862
Will the RIDF shills now shut up? Will the daily propaganda spamming continue?
>>22546093
>Will the daily propaganda spamming continue?
Why would it stop?
>>22546093
Why? Idiots keep trusting propaganda anyway\
How did they fuck up THAT bad?
Is there anything that russia can do right?
>>22546102
Sure, send more men into the grinder to rescue them.
They are a bargaining chip now.
Why troop insignias were removed if they crossed border by accident?
>>22546102
>Is there anything that russia can do right?
Win a war in 5 days
Annex territory with 0 casualties
The current situation in E.Ukraine is purely military forces being used for political leverage, if Putin seriously wanted an invasion he would have had it by now. Ukraine isn't Georgia, they don't have a mountain range protecting them from mass armor movement
>>22546093
It's not over until the last Ukrainian occupant leaves the territory of Novorossiya, duh.
>>22543387
>>22546129
kek
>>22541330
Africa? Central America?
Heck, the whole point was to spread the Revolution to every country on the planet (of course, the leadership was often more interested in their dachas on the river, as seems to happen in all overly-centralized governments).
Closer to their borders, of course, they "liberated" Eastern Europe, looted it, and enslaved its peoples for 40+ years. So, it's absolutely shocking that those people and their kids want somebody to help keep them from being conquered again.
>>22543387
Your list is retarded because it just lists every conflict where US has been involved.
>>22540526
"within their rights"?
I thought that it was the right of a sovereign country itself to decide what it wants to do, and if an outside country doesn't like it, they can lump it? Russia doesn't have any more "right" to invade the Ukraine than Britain would have to invade southern Ireland.
>>22546124
>mountain range protecting them
Russians control Abhasia and Roki Tunnel and had no problem with deploying mass armor in Georgia.
say bye bye to him
>>22546177
Wasn't there some big thing about a single tunnel across the mountains which the Georgians tried to destroy and the Russians had to defend at all costs?
Either way, Ukraine is far better for tanks, it's ideal territory for mass armor maneuvers, I'm reading Manstein's memoirs right now and the guy is just completely masturbating over those steppes.
>>22546191
Georgian soldier here. We reached Roki tunnel with Special force units from Batumi battalion and regular army tank brigade
We tried to defend tunnel but destroying it was impossible since it was built to withstood nuclear strike
>>22546191
That was Roki Tunnel.
Turns out, Ivan had ample forces sitting on the tunnel for weeks in advance, and secured the south end before the Georgian army made its futile push north.
They also had that newly-built RR (for trade and tourism, you see) into Abkhazia to reinforce along that route, plus the Black Sea Fleet to take the ports and provide resupply.
>>22546210
I confirm this. There were thousands of Russian troops and hundreds of tanks prepared near Roki tunnel
>>22546210
>>22546214
So the Russian movie "August Eight" lied to me?
No! That can't be!
Russians never lie!
>>22546233
Russians are cowards and liars. Here's my best example
> 1993
> Georgian - Abkhazian war
> Russia sends 40 trucks of "Humanitarian aid" to city of Tkhvarcheli controlled by seps
> Doesn't let Georgian/ICRC check it
Turned out it was supply of ammunition for separatist forces. 1 month later they attacked Abkhazia capital and captured it from Georgians.
They are doing exactly same shit as in 90's , 2008 and etc now in Ukraine.
>>22546240
B-But muh Mosin! Muh AK!
LIAR!
>>22546240
Wait, so now the story about how Georgia started the war by shelling a city and killing civilians and Russian peace-keepers alike, the story that's corroborated by the UN itself, is a lie?
>>22546240
Abkhazians GTFO Georgians from Abkhazia. Sounds legit for me.
>>22546249
Separatist forces blown up our Patrol car (Toyota) near the "Russian peacekeepers" block post at 6th august, 4 died and 1 injured.
Later 7th august they started bombing our villages from Mortars and heavy artillery, in response Georgia sent special forces unit to nearest villages and opened small arms fire, but couldn't stop them. Our BTR-80 burned
8th august , Our president warns them to stop. Shit continues.
Later at night our full scale military offensive including about 35 000 soldiers and 100 tanks started on the Tskhinval city. (100 more tanks were not used for some reason and stationed on bases)
>>22546263
Georgians were majority in Abkhazia and Abkhazia historically belonged to Georgia as autonomic republic/kingdom. So your agument is invalid.
Now if Ukraine BTFO's all Russian speaking people from Donbass and ethnic cleanses them, will it be right?
>>22546263
Abkhazia is a part of Georgia.
>>22546280
>Now if Ukraine BTFO's all Russian speaking people from Donbass and ethnic cleanses them, will it be right?
Apparently yes, since nobody seems to have a problem with them indiscriminately shelling Lugansk and Donetsk, with only the HRW sending Kiev letters asking them to cut that shit out
>>22546299
There's always shelling in war especially when separatists hide in city. There is no other way to do military operation without shelling
We shelled Tskhinval too, Russians bombed our peaceful cities too.
>>22546280
British king's subjects were majority in American colonies, in fact there were zero US citizens and American colonies historically belonged to Britain.
>>22546291
* was.
Ftfy
>>22546291
American colonies is a part of British empire.
>>22546313
Was, is, and will be.
Why do you faggots always insist on drawing parallels as if there's some sort of objective standard of law that applies to everyone equally? America does things it condemns others of doing because it can get away with it, ditto for Russia, ditto for every state that was powerful enough at some point in history to enforce their will.
>>22546310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTZl5vKgaoA
>ukranian soldiers passed russian border in big numbers. It's totally ok.
>some russian conscripts fucked up - IT"S INVASION!
I like how people perceive such information.
>>22546357
RIDF, please go away.
>>22546357
I believe the former crossed the border without arms.
>>22546457
The first time they did it, they left their BTR in Russian territory because the border guards were nearing them.
>>22539009
sorry, had to.
So, what about all these large scale offensives of the separatists in the last two days??
I thought they encircled large parts of the ukrainian army and overrun their positions in the south. Also they were about to take Mariopol. I mean, look at that
>>22539599
Thats supposed to be the most unbiased map.
Now, there is near to nothing in any mainstream media, everyone is reporting that its the usual fighting, nothing out of the ordinay.
Did the ukrainians managed an information blackout? Did all the local journalists slept through the Tet offensive or was it all just russian bullshit and nothing of that happened in reality?
>>22546172
Yeah right burger. How about Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan?
Suddenly right of a sovereign state to not be attacked does not apply to anyone Ameriburgers wan't to attack?
>>22546544
welcome to the last 60 years, where have you been?
It is funny that the counter argument to Russia being a dick to all its neighbours is that the US does it as well so that makes it ok.
I wonder why Putin is all smoke and mirrors about supporting the rebels. Why not just come out and do it openly? It is fairly obvious where all these men and heavy weapons are coming from and the west has already shown it isn't interest in doing anything.
When people say that NATO has something to do with that, they are clearly delusional.
They completely disregard the bullshit that ex-president pulled for years and the fact that Yanu turn around and says FUCK EU in the last second and then proceeded banning all protests like Russia did back in the day with Putin ellections.
You also pull some weid statistical data that says that every russian speaking is for russia and every person having russian ties is for russia automatically.
Delusion. Desinformation. Chaos. Just business. RIDF!
Join today.
Transcript of Interrogation of Russian Paratrooper Captured in Ukraine
http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-this-week/#3949
Interrogator: On your page on VKontakte...There's this phrase..."I'm being sent to Rostov once again. To the war. To wipe out Maidan. I'm leaving Monday." So here it is. Is there such a phrase? Is that yours?
Milchakov: Yes, it's mine.
Interrogator: Can you provide some commentary?
Milchakov: Provide commentary? At that moment, they didn't tell us anything concrete. There were just rumors. But everyone understood...what would happen. We're going to Rostov. Since there will be training in Rostov.
Interrogator: So then what does "wiping out Maidan" have to do with that.
Milchakov: Well, sort of...it's embarrassing even to say...I just wanted to show off in front of my friends, I guess. That's why I wrote that.
lol
>>22546664
+5 hryvnias, keep it up.
Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine - THEY ARE LIEING, IT"S ALL LIEEA.
Russian ministry says they are there by acciendent - LET OUR GLORIOUS SOLDIERS TO GO, THEY DID NOTING WORNG
Russian soldiers go back from training in zinc - THEY DIED BY ACCIEDENT
>>22546712
lol, someone has nothing to say
>>22539009
Does anybody have a clear narrative of what is going on in the Ukraine? Preferably in english because I can't speak Russian or Ukrainian.
>>22541222
Yes, very. The USSR wasnt much of an offensive force as the U.S. feared. They only wanted to secure borders for the most part. All these people who are saying Russia isn't outright invading because they havent yet are stupid and very clearly havent heard of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
What is the size of the rebels army?
>>22546806
minus ~9000
>>22546779
What's the point in that?
>>22539009
I wish they would just split up the country. I'd love to see the difference between West & East in 15 years. They are going to be pretty sorry they fucked up their chances then.
At least they can squat and drink improvised vodka at their crumbling parking lots by then.
RAWRR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na7cQmMXGFg
Ukrainian "army" "running" away.
>>22546837
>They are going to be pretty sorry they fucked up their chances then.
I'm sure they'll be able to negotiate back into Putin's custom's union when shit gets really bad, Ukraine has these policy changes all the time, they were fervently pro-EU in the 2004 revolution until corruption forced out the pro-EU government in favour of Yanuk, when the economy goes to hell again you'll see similar things happening.
>>22546806
~766,000
mostly reserve in Russia
>>22544419
And Spain had barely no force projection into them because they were fucked up in multiple ways. Much smaller armies were capable of declaring freedom on holding their ground.
Argentinian here, we practically liberated the whole continent from Argentina to Honduras... back when we were worth a shit.
>>22546798
The USSR invaded Afghanistan because it was another of those buffer zones Russia has historically tried to keep between itself and its western competitors. The reason for the invasion was that the US was trying to shore up a better relationship with the Communist government in Afghanistan (brought to power by revolution in 1978). To the USSR, losing leverage over a vital buffer zone was unacceptable, so they invaded to put a stop to it.
>>22546639
Personally, I'm tired of the double standard that any government that agrees with the US is a good guy, even such shitholes as Saudi Arabia and Israel, while any government the US doesn't like is part of the "Axis of Evil," and an exporter of extremist terrorism. Referendums held in countries the US has interests in are always fair and balanced, 100% authentic, but if the US doesn't like you then no referendum you hold can possibly be the true "will of the people" because you intentionally botched the votes.
>>22546066
>>22546058
Slavs seem to have a fixation for cheesy propaganda, its like a racial thing or something. Still, Ukrainian whores are so fuckable; I don't get many slavs in my country, but I meat one not long ago (co-worker of a friend) and she looked just like those wenches (coke addict too, just to add to the stereotype).
>>22546321
Why are Georgians so butt-sore? You're even worse than "muh-falkla...ehhh, I mean, muh-malvinas".
>>22540711
>Not even the guy you are arguing with, but you are a dumbass.
Good morning, enjoy being BTFO
BTFO
B
T
F
O
(and it is an outright invasion. get fucked)
>>22539009
>http://militarymaps.info/
What are the sources for those maps and shit? And the blog of some random separatist isn't reliable source. Those maps seem to contradict everything that was previously going on with the conflict (rebels losing ground). I haven't even noticed anything about Novoazovsk and Mariupol being under attack, apart from OP's apparently not very reliable map and blog.
Unless you have something to back that up, I'm calling bullshit.
>>22546837
They had like 20 years of independence and never did any good, the issue there is corruption, regardless of the system you use, if there is corruption there won't be any progress.
Ukraine was very corrupted back then and it's very corrupted now.
I have a good relationship with an old lad who immigrated from Ukraine a couple of years after the fall of the URSS. He has family over there (living an hour away from kiev in some town I don't remember the name) and the vast majority of the people he and his family has contact with is pretty fed up with everything, not one side or the other, but with the whole situation; They would complain about the corrupt ex-president, the "vultures" that are now in power and even about the Russians taking advantage of the situation.
I don't think neither side would have much to boast about in 15 years.
>>22546299
Maybe if Russia stopped supplying the rebels with SAMs they'd be able to use precision strikes instead of the hammer of GRADs. But Russia wants civilian casualties.
>>22547184
I thought the propaganda thing was ingrained in them by the soviets
>>22546703
Poor Russians, always getting lost. I remember one time in 1956 they tried to get to Suez but ended up in Hungary.
ITT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
Eat a bag of dicks, RIDF.
>>22540992
>Ukraine has natural resources.
>US want those natural resources.
>So does Russia.
Ukrainian National Guard humvee.
>>22546820
>Gott mit uns
>>22547305
>ukranian air force
>precision strikes
Pick one.
>>22547626
I pick both, because without interference it's a hell of a lot more precise than removing a grid square. Helicopters moreso, but iglas remove that chance.
>>22547648
We've seen those precision strikes back when Ukraine still had an air air force and their attack planes bombed squares full of people with malfunctioning AC units.
>>22547803
We have seen also pictures of cluster ammo from Syrian conflict; labeled by RDIF as shot in Donetsk.
>>22547803
It was few meters off from the headquarters of the self declared Lugansk republic.
Sucks for the civilians, but anyone with a healthy interest of self preservation would avoid hanging around such obvious targets.
>>22547859
It was back in the days when people found the idea of their own government bombing them ludicrous.
Also trying to hit single building with salvo of unguided rockets is ultra fullretard mode.
>>22539401
why do they squat? is it some culture or religious thing, or tey just think they are too good enough to drop their butts on the ground?
>>22547934
Squatting is usually associated with gopniki, who are mostly just prison trash. Squatting is a habit they get from prison and they apply it at real life as well.
>>22539331
>This is Ukraine vs Putin's puppets.
lol
>>22539009
DONT THEY KNOW WINTER IS COMEING! A OFFENSIVE NOW IS FOLLY!
>>22546926
I have got to get a workout routine with results like that.
>>22541018
Ukrainian shill.
>>22547310
More like they ingrained it onto the Soviets.
>>22546066
That can't be real.
I mean, c'mon why only a BTR? Why not at leat BMP or a Tank? It's not that it's cheesy it's just so... cheap.
prisoners talking:
>>22549151
>>22541415
>My grandfather is a full blooded Ukrainian from the Carpathian mountains. When I ask him about the local conflict he actually sided with the Russians which is weird because from west Ukraine.
It's not that weird, a lot of the people from Carpathian regions didn't identify with the new Ukrainian identity (which really started in the late XIXth century, partly as a ploy by Austrians against the Poles and Russians), and instead chose to remain Ruthenian, as they have for hundreds of years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns
>>22547567
that looks like a miniature toy-model
Im only want to say one thing:
FUCK RUSSIANS HOPE THEY WILL ALL DIE
yes
My thread is still alive. Good.
>>22551715
Well now, arent you angry. Some valium might help calm you down and have a bottle of Vodka, it might soothe the pain.
>>22550229
>with the new Ukrainian identity (which really started in the late XIXth century, partly as a ploy by Austrians against the Poles and Russians)
Stopped reading right there
>>22551882
History teacher here specializing in Central and Eastern Europe, I can confirm that this is true.
Eastern European nations have a bad habit of inventing the ancient qualities of their identity, Poland for example used to circlejerk about how they were descended from the Sarmatian steppe peoples from the Volga basin in the time before the hegemony of Rome, just so that they could claim as nobles to be the best people in the Commonwealth, and then to lord it over the nations trying to partition them.
What are the chances of any other eastern euro country that has a russian hate boner assisting the Ukrainians?
I remember it being said that Poland would aid them in the event of Russian aggression but everyone is oddly silent now.
Ukrainian Bastion (modernized GRAD)
>>22552520
That's not Bastion.
Here is what a real one looks like.
>>22546837
Putin doesn't want the country split up, though, because the western half would almost certainly align with NATO and Russia's precious buffer zone that they spent the last century building up would be gone
>>22552404
As far as I know it was all just huffing, though I am interested how the newly tested army will preform in the event russia tries something larger...
>>22552625
Behind it dufus.
>>22552809
What do you mean?
>>22553096
Look at the truck behind the truck in front.
>>22543387
>List covers 4 times the time frame
>Includes interventions where other list only includes occupied territories
>Thinks it's a reasonable comparison
>>22553271
The picture from post No.22552520 shows two old GRADs in a shitty condition on URAL-4320 chassis.
There are no modernized versions present there.
Bastion uses KRAZ trucks.
Get your facts straight.
>>22553300
My original post said interventions, not occupations (though many of those US interventions I listed are military occupations or attempted occupations). Not my fault the one who posted the list of Russian "occupations" is illiterate.
>>22539009
huhe
>>22547561
Please specify which resources the US has an interest in.
Geopolitics man. Geopolitics and natural gas....
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101669271
>>22546066
dat chorniy bumer
Damn...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUpWWJlazkY
Looks like Ukraine has some operators.
>>22539427
Yeah, Russia
>>22539009
No truths have been released about no wars that have happened after the glorified freemasonic year of 2000.
There are only folks unarmed and running yelling "please dont kill us please dont kill us" and they are yealling because the released gaseous drugs have allready made them forget who they are and that they were supposed to run or die but not plead to get to do slave work.
Then there are the drug soliders that will kill them, like happened to all meaningfull kurd populations that were unfortunate enough to exists near war zones, not so long ago, leaving maby 1 per a thousand most beautifull women alive.
>>22560932
Just to put some fear into freemasons it was 70% french, 20% USA and 5% Britbong and 5% others composition paratroopers that killed and swiched the Kurds and operation was based upon no air defence and the consequent ability to use only military cargo planes as transport to hide it from domestic generals.
So basically Ukraine fixed a law that barred volunteer units from having heavy weaponry.
>according to Semenchenko (Donbass Battalion leader) - everything will be ok, Ukrainian army reinforcements are on the way already. Avakov finally got this new law which allows volunteers to get heavy equipment (some corrupt generals and people in MOD refused until prime minister himself asked them to open military storages and take equipment for those battalions).
>They will receive heavy ATGM "Kornet", "SKIF", "Fagot", new RPG's, manpads, tanks, IFV's and APC's.
Think of what these guys could have done if they had T-64's and T-72's from the start.
>>22560838
dat western bought gear
>>22561005
>Think of what these guys could have done if they had T-64's and T-72's from the start.
They could've lost them to the separatists.
>>22561005
>getting killed by heavy weapons called faggots
Salt in the wound
>>22561022
Wishfull thinking, just like saying they have been pushed out of Ilovaisk.
>>22561005
I am wondering why the Ukrainians are doing this. You normally don't change laws to make exceptions this late in the game unless something really bad happens, like during the Civil War when slaves were getting armed by the Confederates to fight.
Does anyone know what's happening in Ukraine right now? Last news I heard, Ukraine was beating the rebels already. But that was like a month ago.
>>22558208
>Please specify which resources the US has an interest in.
All of them fool.
>>22561064
The Ukies have been hamstrung by shit like this from the start, they have had to rebuild their army on the fly.
>>22561064
liveuamap.com
>>22540711
>They may be sending supplies and vehicles
Where is the evidence of this? It's based purely on conjecture, on the idea that the rebels couldn't beat the ukrainian army unless they had outside intervention.
Russia has sent aid convos, that were inspected by neutral western third parties, that cleared them as non-combatant aid, but Ukraine said they were military weaponry. Continually claim russia is interfering, but never presents a single shred of evidence. Whole thing stinks of propaganda.
>>22561064
Gotta give back to those ultranationalist militias that put their good buddy Petro on the President's seat.
>>22561104
There has not been a shred of evidence if you close your eyes and cover your ears. >>22545472
>>22545862
>>22541877
