What does /k/ think of the modular meme?
It seems Russia is also trying out their own meme ship.
The Project 20386 Corvette retains the 100mm gun of the Project 20380 Steregsomething ships and carries 16 Redut VLS for SAM (up from 12 in the current 20381) also the towed sonar and Paket-NK anti torpedo and anti submarine system also 8 Uran Kh-35 anti ship missiles.
Aside from the stealth meme look, the major change is in its interchangeable armaments.
It can carry 2 small boats and 2 helicopters for anti piracy or rescue or change it to 2 underwater drones for anti-sub. The helicopter can carry torpedoes. and the containers can carry anti sub missiles.
It can juggle 2 helicopters instead for covert green water ops plus 2 small boats, it can carry 4 aerial drones (I believe Russia is asking for the Gorizont Air S-100 domestication) to act as visual guide for the missile of other corvettes. It can also carry 2 Ka-31 AEW Helicopter carrier for land based IADS.
And it can carry 2 containers of Kalibr missiles (4 missiles each) and a Ka-52K that can carry 2 Kh-35 missiles for anti shipping duty also the ship has 8 Kh-35 missile launchers too. Or if another corvette is given the spotting duty it can carry 4 containers of Kalibrs or Kh-35 instead, only it can fire the first 2 containers before it can fire the second salvo of 8 more.
>>30616140
They have big drones.
>>30616140
There is nothing wrong with modular design, and now that the russians are doing it too im sure my russian friends who incessantly shitpost the lcs will think its the best thing since sliced bread.
It is interesting to note that, while the LCS started as a modular ship and now is being moved to a frigate, the russian ship started life as a corvette (really about the same size as the freedom class) and moved to a modular design.
We will see if it effects anything.
Based on the Saudi frigate, however, the LCS frigate is looking like a mean bitch.
>>30616140
Good. I think this masterpieces of Russian engineering will be ready in 20 years. It they didn't run out of money,
>>30616156
this one scares the shit out of me since I live in a port city.
hope trump becomes POTUS so things fucking calm down a bit.
>>30616254
This is just propaganda.
>>30616277
Nah, its not, but its really no different from a DT shot, and might actually be able to be stopped by shooting a torp at it.
>>30616277
sure thing. just because they leaked it doesn't mean it's not in works. in fact, Moscow Times reported that it got funded.
>>30616298
Good luck finding it. It'll be small & super-quiet. It's like a small needle in a huge haystack.
>>30616308
Nah, according to the leak it uses a pump jet, and will be going at a pretty good rate.
Not to meantion it gots a long way to go, which gives a lot of time for detection.
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/01/project-20386-small-patrol-ships-corvettes/
>>30616156
This looks cool as fuck. Some serious late 80's early 90's cgi aesthetics.
>>30616220
>now that the russians are doing it too im sure my russian friends who incessantly shitpost the lcs will think its the best thing since sliced bread
LCS is shitposted because it is crippled by it modularity, while the corvette retains and even expands its strike capabilities compared to the previous design in addition to obtaining limited modularity. I'd say that's a pretty based design, although a bit ambitions. We'll see if it meets expectations.
>the russian ship started life as a corvette (really about the same size as the freedom class)
20380, 20381 and 20385 are all about 2200 tonnes at full load. 20386 is expected to go up to 4000 tonnes.
>>30616140
Modularity is usually good, but not for fucking warships.
How often are they REALLY gonna take advantage of it and switch things out? Even on canadian MCDVs, all the "modularity" basically came down to "we installed extra beds on all of them and they're now there forever because there's not really much point to putting anything else"
>>30617536
The LCS is 3500 tons, and similar dimensions. Its not a 1/1 ratio.
>LCS is shitposted because it is crippled by it modularity,
No, it is shitposted due to ignorance. The LCS was not envisioned as a frigate, as a corvette, it was never meant to go toe to toe with ships of the line, and its loadout reflected that.
People wanted the LCS to be some big bad ship killer, and that was not even close to its role. It was meant to be a minesweeper/subhunter while keeping the boghammers and other asymmetrical threats off the heavy hitters. At that job, it excelled.
Now, with the LCS (F), it is. It also shows that its modularity did not hamper its teeth at all, it helped it immensily. If you look at the saudi frigate, its very, very heavily armed.
>>30617568
>If you look at the saudi frigate, its very, very heavily armed.
I'm probably ain't seeing it looking right through it in google, can you give me a link on its specs please?
>>30616254
>Trump as president
>calming down anything
Pic one, and only one. Not that shillary will be any better
>>30617613
https://news.usni.org/2016/05/18/new-saudi-frigate-design-details-emerge
>TLDR: upgunned, 8x dedicated ashms, 16 vls cells (muh quad packed essms), torp tubes, still got 2x 20mms, sea rams, rhib and fuckheug aviation facilities, along with nixie.
>>30616140
>>30617636
Thanks. Yep, not it looks much more appropriate for its tonnage. But will it go into USN in this configuration?
>>30617773
The US is not building LCS's to be missile boats
They are building them to replace mine sweepers, and to do sub hunting, and to do all the other auxialiary shit that the navy has to do.
>>30617773
No guarantees of course but..
>DePietro indicated the model wasn’t tailored to a specific international customer
..this seems to be a baseline LCS frigate
NSM just got greenlighted for US production, so the harpoons will be most likely traded out with it, and of course a few SM-6s in the VLS instead of SM-2s.
>more appropriate
In its tonnage class (4000-5000) i THINK it is THE most heavily armed frigate. (we all know the "frigates" of other navys)
>>30617793
The US is building the LCS into a frigate, and that changes the game. (It really should not be called the LCS anymore, but Freedom/independent class FF, but i dont think anyone will get that autistic about it here.
>>30616300
>Moscow Times reported that it got funded.
Like he said, propaganda. That's not an accidental leak, it's a deliberate "leak" and it would be shocking if the media didn't coordinate a piece.
>>30616308
If only the USA had some kind of undersea detection network on the continental shelf...or a history of tracking every Russian sub, even inside bastions aka "admitting we can't compete" shelters...
>>30617802
>In its tonnage class (4000-5000)
I meant (3000-4000), mia culpa.
Freedom is 3500
>>30616140
Global Combat Ship / Type 26 will probably be the biggest selling warship of this half of the century and is designed to be modular to suit clients and modular at short notice.
Most smaller nations are moving away from having dedicated ships for each role and moving towards general purpose ships that can be scaled to meet demands.
There is a vast amount of combustibility in GCS, from the standard stuff like sensors and flight deck to the tricky like weapons / welldeck to the almost unheard of options for propulsion.
>>30617802
>In its tonnage class (4000-5000) i THINK it is THE most heavily armed frigate
If you take it in the actual frigate configuration and compare to 2200 tonne Gremyashchy-class corvette, LCS has smaller gun, worse AShMs with zero variety, same anti-air assets and aviation facilities with the exception of a small drone and torpedoes, no idea how many, but I sincerely doubt it carries more than 8. comparing it to the actual ship of its class, Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate, is just too humiliating for LCS, I won't even bother. Factually it is somewhere between the projects 20381 and 20385.
Oh, and LCS has better CIWS. It's really strange that Russia for whatever reason doesn't want to change AK-630M for Palash on 20385 and 20386.
>>30617793
>In its tonnage class (4000-5000) i THINK it is THE most heavily armed frigate. (we all know the "frigates" of other navys)
Think that goes to Type 23.
32 sea wolf or 32 sea Ceptor - (quad pack option not chosen for type 23 to speed up upgrade and reduce cost)
4x stingray torpedo tubes
8x Harpoon
4.5 inch gun
2x automated / optionally manned 30mm
2x Miniguns
4x GPMG (FN MAG)
Then there are the two lynx / wildcat helicopters with sea skua, stingray and the shiny new LMM.
And to top it all off it has artisan and the 'Sonar 2087' towed array.
>>30618766
Dude. Pic related is THE frigate as of now. It is basically armed enough to qualify it as an 80s destroyer.
>>30618533
No. 6000+ tons ships are overkill for most navies with regional ambitions, which is why the brits are puting money in the 3500-4000 tons game as well and reducing the Type 26 target number for a complementary smaller hull. The spanish have one in Navantia's catalog, the danes have one wtih Damen, the germans have one with TKMS, the frogs and italians develop both one via DCNS and Finmeccanica. And the two upgunned LCS can count in that class ass well.This is the new eldorado for naval shipyards.
>>30618651
>worse AShMs
Arguable. The JSM is a stealthy subsonic, capable of self targeting OTH. Both the P-800 and kalibr require targeting information. Different missiles for different missions.
>same anti-air assets
False. the Mk. 41 VLS has far more options for both AA and attack, compared to the Redut VLS cells. This is completely inarguable.
> and aviation facilities
Again false, and completely inarguable. The Aviation facilities on the LCS are far larger and can accommodate 2 Firescouts vs One helicopter for the Gremyashchy.
> LCS has smaller gun
True, but both guns on each ship has almost exactly the same attributes, sans caliber size.
The LCS also has much better CWIS systems, as you mentioned, but also has 2 20mm guns, and RHIB capabilities.
From the Mk 41 alone, it puts it a step above the Gremashchy.
>>30618766
>>30618858
See
>>30617846
I dont think its fair to compare a 5000 ton frigate to a 3.5k ton frigate.
>>30618719
They have a lot of extra AK630 and Palash still has problems. Gorshkov's doesn't have missiles because the SOSNA seems to have compatibility problems with Palash.
>>30619310
>JSM
What JSM? It has Harpoons and whatever will fit into Mk.41 at the cost of drastically reducing anti-air capability.
>stealthy
Just like Oniks and Kalibr.
>subsonic
That's hardly a good thing.
>self targeting OTH
What is "self-targeting OTH", lol? Active radar homing fire and forget? That's what both Oniks and Kalibr are. Not even mentioning Kalibr also has real time satellite guidance, something Americans can only dream of.
>the Mk. 41 VLS has far more options for both AA
True that, but I doubt someone will put expensive long range SAMs on a frigate.
>and attack
Nothing that outperforms what can be put into UKSK cells.
>The Aviation facilities on the LCS are far larger
"Far larger" as in they both carry one helicopter, LCS just also carries a small drone.
>both guns on each ship has almost exactly the same attributes
Yeah, nah. A-190 elevation −15/+85, max. range 21km, shell weight 15.6kg. 57 mm gun elevation -10°/+77°, max. range 17km, shell weight 6.1kg.
LCS CIWS are actually much better, the only positive thing about 20385 CIWS is that it's AK-630M are covering two opposite directions simultaneously. But that's not much. It also has two 14.5 machine guns, but I'm going to bet its AK-630M are outperforming 20mm on LCS by far. And the whole 20380 family has boats too. Here you can see one above the ship name plate.
So yeah, Mk.41 indeed do add quite a lot, but that still hardly puts it anywhere above 20385. That being said, I am reminding you that it is in its frigate configuration struggling to compete with a 2200 tonne corvette.
>>30619707
>Kalibr also has real time satellite guidance
>>30619707
You keep calling it a frigate, but everyone else calls it an upgunned and upsized minesweeper.
>>30619716
Yes, Doctor, yes it does.
>>30619736
We are discussing the frigate configuration that Saudis get, read more carefully.
>>30619765
>Yes, Doctor, yes it does.
I'm just curious, is all.
What satellites? What method?
>>30619707
>Kalibr also has real time satellite guidance, something Americans can only dream of.
What is a Tac-Tom datalink.
>>30619707
>What JSM?
if you have to ask anon...
>It has Harpoons
HIGHLY unlikely.
>Oniks and Kalibr
>stealthy
Wew lad.
>That's hardly a good thing.
It IS a good thing.
>but I doubt someone will put expensive long range SAMs on a frigate.
It can have two or so SM-6 for fleet support, the rest ESSM and still be superior.
>Nothing that outperforms what can be put into UKSK cells.
We are talking about redut to mk 41 though.
>"Far larger" as in they both carry one helicopter, LCS just also carries a small drone.
LCS carries two drones and is far larger.
>Yeah, nah.
The frigate will most likely get an OTO 76mm, as the saudi one did.
>frigate struggleing to compete with a corvette.
Its objectively better anon.
>>30619173
>No. 6000+ tons ships are overkill for most navies with regional ambitions
most by number of countries, not most by orders placed.
At the moment Australia, Brazil, Canada, new Zealand, Turkey, India and Germany are all looking into the class for their navies. Once the initial wave is out of the way there will no doubt be smaller countries that will go for either a full size GCS or the smaller patrol / corvette version.
However i prefer the BMT Venator bid for Type 31 (pic related)
>>30619902
Cruise Ship/ 10
Would look at icebergs on
>>30619707
>Real time satellite guidance
So its going to be off course by 3 miles since its GLONASS right?
>>30617618
>trump 'why the fuck are we acting like russia is still to soviet union'
>vs
>'we came we saw and he died' Clintin
>both are the same
>>30619995
keke well memed!
GLONASS got a shit ton of funding in the mid 2000s. It's on par with GPS, while being marginally superior at higher latitudes.
>>30619773
You can read about these systems here. The first one was operational since 70s. The second constellation is under construction nowadays.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/us.html
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/liana.html
>>30619822
Indeed, what? At the first glance looks like GPS guidance. It that what it is?
>>30619832
>HIGHLY unlikely.
Anon posted a link to its frigate configuration above. Only harpoons, no JSM.
>Wew lad.
Problems?
>It IS a good thing.
No, it is not.
>It can have two or so SM-6 for fleet support, the rest ESSM and still be superior.
Actually it seems like you are correct, I misinterpreted quad-packed missile capabilities for Redut. Don't know why I thought it has 50km range, probably confused it for some other missile or system.
>We are talking about redut to mk 41 though.
Redut is a SAM system, if you want to compare Mk.41 strike load, compare it to UKSK.
>LCS carries two drones and is far larger.
Yep, turns out MQ-8B and MQ-8C differ in size by quite a lot.
>>30619832
>The frigate will most likely get an OTO 76mm, as the saudi one did.
Yeah, well, it only achieves comparable range with special shells and the shells are still like half the weight.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_3-62_mk75.php
>Its objectively better anon.
Now that we cleared things out I'd say I agree. Still, I think they are pretty closely matched. Once again, keep in mind it's a much lighter and much, much cheaper corvette.
>>30619995
Your post is dumb on so many levels. First, it is okay, I get that most people here don't know anything but GPS. Second, no one guides AShMs by GPS, that's not how it works. Third, even if it was how it works and if GPS magically would have guided it with 3nmi accuracy, missile's own active radar seeker would have done the rest by that boint. Fourth and and the most important, satellite guidance in this case means real time mid-course updates for the missile's moving target till the point the active radar homing activates.
>>30620186
Do they make you try win arguments in order to receive the rubles? If that's the case, FSB's saving a lot of money with you
>>30619173
weight of the ship doesn't directly link to its cost, what it takes to crew/maintain it, or its fuel consumption
Just having more room to play with & upgrade later is beneficial.
>>30620186
>Anon posted a link to its frigate configuration above
The NSM has been tested on an LCS already, and the US had just got (as in today) the permission to domestically manufacturer the NSM/JSM.
https://news.usni.org/2016/07/13/raytheon-naval-strike-missile-u-s
It will most likely get the NSM.
Allow me to correct myself, the JSM is air launched, the NSM is ship launched, therefore the LCS will get the NSM.
>Problems?
Indeed. The p-800 is anything but stealth, and the kalibr is essentually a tomahawk, which is anything but.
>No, it is not.
It really is anon, why do you think russia moved from the P-xxxx series to kalibr?
>Redut is a SAM system, if you want to compare Mk.41 strike load, compare it to UKSK.
Mk. 41 vls to redut, offensive AShM to UKSK. Anything else would be unfair to the corvette.
>Now that we cleared things out I'd say I agree.
I agree, and the ruskie corvette (that i refuse to look up its name again on my phone) certainly punches above its weight.
>>30620274
Fuck off you worthless faggot, this is how you get shitposters who never admit they are wrong.
>>30616254
>calm down a bit
Russia knows that that wont be the status quo forever, they'd use a Trump presidency as an excuse to build up their arsenal again without scrutiny.
Jack of all trades, master of none. PIERRE SPREY would not approve.
>>30620422
Okay, so tell me if I got something wrong. They've made and tested for LCS a naval version of JSM that is launched from the same(?) mounting as Harpoon but has 100 nmi range? I mean what's the point, am I missing some major advantage?
> The p-800 is anything but stealth
There's quite a few Russian sources that agree that stealth technology was used for this missile. I'm not saying it's VLO like LRASM or Kh-101, but still.
>and the kalibr is essentually a tomahawk
That's incorrect. Kalibr is a large family of missiles that includes supersonic AShM, long range land attack missile (this one is a derivative of Kh-55 that is indeed essentially a direct Tomahawk equivalent), anti-submarine missile torpedoes and their export mods. Again they are not VLO missiles like the ones I mentioned, but it is generally believed that stealth technology was used to reduce their RCS.
>It really is anon, why do you think russia moved from the P-xxxx series to kalibr?
It really isn't, especially now that Russia is adopting missiles like Oniks and Kalibr that weight fractions of the monstrosities they developed before and are still supersonic in massive use and moving from ramjet to scramjet. Yes, a subsonic missile saves more spacea nd easily is much more ergonomic, but a sea-skimming supersonic missile with stealth technologies implemented is just too hard to intercept. And I of course don't mean just a one lone missile. I mean I'd bet on Vulkan and Granit swarm to penetrate CSG air defence over a swarm of LRASM any day.
>Mk. 41 vls to redut, offensive AShM to UKSK.
I mean that UKSK has a variety of attack missiles that is essentially equivalent to the variety of attack missiles that fit to Mk.41. No attack missile that Mk.41 houses is outperforming attack missile that can be put into UKSK. Mk.41 can also fit SAMs, that is the role for Redut and Shtil VLS on Russian ships. I don't know why they didn;t unify them completely, probably has something to do with the size.
>>30616156
For you.
>>30620422
>I agree, and the ruskie corvette (that i refuse to look up its name again on my phone) certainly punches above its weight.
It translates as "thunderous" :)
From how I understand it what they are doing with these guided missile corvettes is basically fooling around the INF by simply putting cruise missiles in sea instead of land vehicles. Fairly smart if you ask me. I mean look at this shit.
>>30619646
Got a source on that? Not because muh proofs, just wondering if there's some specific info.
