http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/taiwan-rejects-south-china-sea-ruling-says-will-deploy-another-navy-vessel-to-itu-aba
>TAIPEI - Taiwan said on Tuesday (July 12) that it will never accept a ruling by a UN-backed arbitral tribunal that Taiping island and other features in the Spratly archipelago are "rocks" that are not entitled to a 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone.
>Its navy also said it will deploy another coast guard vessel on Wednesday to Taiwan-controlled Taiping - also known as Itu Aba - to patrol its surrounding waters. The navy had deployed a 2,000-tonne coast guard vessel on Sunday to the island.
>The Philippines had brought the case to the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at The Hague against China's claims in the South China Sea. Although Taiwan is not a party to the case, its claims in the disputed waters are similar to those of China, and Taiping island was brought up in testimony during the court hearings.
Not China, but Taiwan seems to be the first one to escalate and react to the court ruling.
Good job, The Hague, for pushing China and Taiwan closer together.
>WW3 starts because of fucking water
>>30604949
No, it is WW3 because of containment and counter-containment.
China and the US can give a shit about those islands from the economic point of view. Problem is, they both see them as strategic positions. For China, controling the SCS means controling their own lifeblood, as 80% of China's trade goes through that area (China's shipping makes the majority of the SCS shipping as well). For the US, having the Chinese controling their SLOC means that China feels safer, which is bad for the US, who tries to contain China and deny them the rise to become a peer power that would threaten the US' unipolar hegemony.
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/regional/2016/07/13/taiwan-sends-warship-to-south-china-sea/
>Taiwan sends warship to South China Sea
>TAIPEI: A Taiwanese warship set sail for the South China Sea on Wednesday “to defend Taiwan’s maritime territory”, a day after an international tribunal ruled China has no historic rights in the waterway and undermined Taipei’s claims to islands there.
>President Tsai Ing-wen rallied troops on the deck of the frigate, saying Taiwanese were determined to “defend their country’s rights”, before the warship headed for Taiwan-controlled Taiping island in the Spratly island chain from the southern city of Kaohsiung.
>The Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague ruled Tuesday that China has no historic rights to its claimed “nine-dash line” and that it had violated the Philippines’ sovereign rights in the exclusive economic zone.
>Crucially for Taipei, it ruled that Taiwan-administered Taiping, the largest island in the Spratlys chain, was legally a “rock” that did not give it an exclusive economic zone, undermining Taiwanese claims to waters surrounding the island.
>Taiwan’s government said the ruling was “completely unacceptable” and had no legally binding force since the arbitral tribunal did not formally invite Taipei to participate in its proceedings or solicit its views.
>“The South China Sea ruling, especially the categorisation of Taiping island, has severely jeopardised our country’s rights in the South China Sea islands and their relevant waters,” Tsai told soldiers on the deck of ship in footage broadcast by news channels.
>“This patrol mission will show Taiwanese people’s determination to defend their country’s rights,” she said, before disembarking from the warship ahead of its departure.
anyone else just hoping ww3 starts
>>30605000
Yes
>>30604943
Taiwan claims all the same places China does.
This court ruling solves nothing. Even if China were to be excluded from the picture, Vietnam and Philippines are next in line to claim the islands.
>>30605210
What's more, the ruling jeopardizes both Vietnamese and Japanese claims over their own territorial disputes against China, as they both rely on features that would be classified as "rocks" under this ruling to extend their EEZ against China.
Top kek
Damn flips can't get a break lol
>>30604943
>Chapparal SAM
holy shit really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=uBDsmpxwYsA
>>30604943
Since the governement of Taïwan considers to be the legitimate governement-in-exile of China, they are pretty much bound to maintain the very exact same "historical claims" as mainland.
>>30605474
cringy.
>>30605474
breddy gud.
reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtzgE9mJD8
>tfw this will happen soon irl
focustaiwan (dot)tw/news/aipl/201607120024(dot)aspx
>Taiwan does not accept South China Sea ruling: Presidential Office
So, what will Taiwan do now? Patrol the waters and chase off Flip/Viet fishers with their warships?
>>30604949
Maybe if the chinks weren't destroying the ocean with their trawling people would be less reticent to let them out of their territorial waters.
Any boat out of their EEZ should be sunk, to be quite honest.
>>30606800
So, Philippine and Vietnamese boats should be sunk as well?
It is not that other claimant do not claim waters outside their EEZ.
Taiwan.
China.
Both points on the globe, each as equally stupid about their maritime claims as the other.
Still won't stop them from one day going to war with one another.
>>30606765
can't wait until we go to war against china and kick their ass(holy shit with all the fags in the USA military and 8 years of retarded democrat administration we might lose)
>>30606765
>.50c has been depostied into your account
How anyone can call that abortion "good" is beyond me. Even a meme spewing 12 year old can see how transparent it is. Its not bad, its fucking terrible.
>>30607081
>implying it is any different than other nationalistic videos on youtube
it is not more retarded than those hashtag shit on social media here.
I take it Taiwan would avoid the routes of the PLA ships/boats or patrol very far away.
>>30604977
it won't escalate any further than mutual flybys, deliberate ship collisions and other standard harassment tactics. the pla is a military structure whose primary purpose is to avoid direct military standoff with the enemy at all cost. the chinese do not perceive war against the u.s. as something that should be fought through military means. for them, it's a long term game of currency manipulation, information attacks and artificial financial crises
The Kang Dings are pieces of shit which are vastly inferior to the Gregorio del Pilars, yet alone the new Indian frigates on order for the PN.
The FA-50s already give the Philippines air superiority versus ROC's obsolete F-16 Block 20s and underpowered Chink Kuos
>>30605000
YES!!!!!
>>30607061
Our plan will work and cause them to fight.
>>30605000
yes
>people get drafted
>easier for me to find a job
>less competition while I finish college and look for a job
>less people to bully me for being trans* since the people who would be are dying in war
>>30605000
Those triples. It's happening!
>>30607856
>trans
>thinks he/she wont be drafted
>2016
Buddy, I got some bad news for you.
>>30607259
There is a lot wrong with essay, especially his air sea battle comments.
>>30605000
Yes. I work in defence, so anything that affords us more resources to play with and better job security is always welcomed.
>>30607148
No, it is, because its forced "le ebin meme" pre-hashtag era youtube videos.
Worse than that, its is a beyond terrible representation of one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbR2JZmlWo
>>30607964
Zhubi and Meiji island bases had their new airstrips calibrated one the same day.
>>30607999
Has anyone ever decided to do what more like?
Also, what does that have to do with that abortion of a video?
>>30608022
didnt meant to reply.
>>30608031
Thats fair.
How does one "calibrate" a fuckin airstrip?
Yeah, they landed some jets on it, but fuck man. Calibrate?
>>30607923
I have a few scars on my arms and legs I'll claim are self-harm scars.
ez life
>>30607856
hate to brake it to you but the military droped the trans ban so your ass is going to end up if you like it or not.. if you end up in the military pull your weight don't let others die because your a self centered ass hole
>>30607013
Funny thing, you see that big ass island outside the 9-dash just above the YS of Malaysia ? That's Pulau Riau island (if I remember the name properly). China just decided a few months ago, the sourrounding waters were "traditional chinese fishing area" as well.
>>30608058
once again hate to break it to you but in a ww3 situation most of our current troops would become casualties immediately requiring us to have a massive recruitment effort especially since we would have to counter china's large population while also fighting Russia and iran along with north korea. The military wont give a shit they will get any physically able body put it in a suit and ship it out. your trany ass better hope the Russians don't win you know what Russians would do to you?
>>30608317
China's massive population is irrelevant when they can't fit them all on their small navy. It's not like USA is planning on invading China.
>>30608036
yes, one needs to land a plane first to calibrate a virgin airstrip
>>30608344
umm but they could hit korea and they could hit japan both areas where we have bases.
>>30608344
China's amphibious capabilities are actually very significant, especially with civilian/dual-use augmented RoRo carriers.
>>30608605
Soft civilian ships would get tore up though, and its not as if the USNS does not exist.
>>30608886
For a short ranged invasion of Taiwan, they are enough. The Taiwan strait is only 200km in width and these civilian ships will only be used for ferrying troops once the beachhead is secured. For that matter, the PLA's amphibious troops and the PLAN's landing craft flotillas are more than enough. It is not that they have to land a million troops at once. They are perfectly capable of landing two divisions simultaniously via amphibious assault, and a mechanized airborne division via air.
And it is not that the Chinese military wont close off the entire strait north and south.
>>30605000
WITNESSED
WW3 Confirmed
>>30608951
>For a short ranged invasion of Taiwan, they are enough.
Not if they are under fire, which the Taiwanese are most assuredly going to do.
Damage control, and damage resistance is very very low on civilian ships.
>They are perfectly capable of landing two divisions simultaniously via amphibious assault, and a mechanized airborne division via air.
Going to need more than that, unless you assume capitulation without US involvement.
Much more than that you will have to deal with US intelligence assets see the buildup, and get taiwan on warfooting, along with moving tripwire forces in place.
If THAT happens, fuck, might as well go home. PLAN cant win in a straight up fight on the seas against the USN, and they know it.
>>30609048
>Not if they are under fire, which the Taiwanese are most assuredly going to do.
Yeah, but China's missile brigades with a total number of 1500 ballistic missiles, as
well as even long range MRLS (like the WS-2, SY-400, even PHL-03 300mm guided rockets) will be able to suppress any ROC defenses. It is not that the Chinese will attempt a D-Day against a heavily defended beachhead that is not suppressed.
Not to mention about China's airforce, that is guaranteed to win air-superiority over the Taiwan Strait at the very least.
>Going to need more than that, unless you assume capitulation without US involvement.
Actually, the PLA forces will not fight a Taiwanese army that is unsuppressed. Chances are, that entire ROC formations will already have been wiped out or routed before the invasion begins. For once, since the morale isnt that great, and secondly, they are in the range of Chinese shore-based firepower.
The US could place tripwire forces in Taiwan for all they care, but China's A2AD will prevent any effective relief effort before the PLA has completely conquered Taiwan and the bulk of their troops pouring in.
China's planners, as well as the Taiwanese analysts themselves are sure that Taiwan will fall within a week.
>>30604943
Well, China doesn't need to do anything now. Taiwan has done it for them. Tsai has sent Navy ships to Taiping island. China only needs to sit back and let Taiwan take care of everything.
Soon it will be Taiwan vs. Philipines instead of China vs. the world. That's because both Taiwan and the Philipines are allies of the west. They can't afford to alienate any of them. So they would most likely stay out of the fight and let Taiwan and the Philipines fight it out on their own.
China will just quietly keep doing whatever they have been doing all along. If anyone challenge them, they will simply say "watch over there! see what Taiwan is doing?"
What is currently happening is the best case scenario for China. So China should just sit back and let it play out.
>>30609125
The Chinese have also likely infiltrated every level of Taiwan's government. It was no coincidence that the KMT was cosying up to China before they got kicked out in the last election
Not a whole lot an army can do against the PLA if its more or less run by CCP stooges
>>30609214
the taiwanese are chinese though
>>30609235
Whoops, my bad
>>30609214
Partly, so.
Another reason would actually be that the ROC Armed Forces are actually the least anti-chinese portions of the Taiwanese population, no matter how ironic it sounds. Most of them are deep blue and carry on that "We are the real China"-spiel, compared to the civilian youth who are mostly green/pro-independence.
There was a report about the people living in the islands that are close to China's shore with interviews of the inhabitans and soldiers, and they all more or less indicated that they would simply surrender in case of shit hitting the fan. Chances are that the PLA doesnt even need to invade those islands, but PAP mobile units (fucking SWAT police) would be enough to get those islands back.
Since this is the official China thread here that is not just shitposting; some related news:
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4194
>Chinese Navy (PLAN) Commissioned its Fourth Type 052D Kunming-class Destroyer "Yinchuan"
>According to the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy) the fourth Type 052D (NATO reporting name Luyang III class) destroyer Yinchuan (hull number 175), was just commissioned on July 12 with China's South Sea Fleet. The vessel is now homeported at Yulin Naval Base located in the Yalong Bay (city of Sanya) on Hainan island.
So, with the fourth 052D in service, and all in the South Sea Fleet (SSF), 9th Destroyer Flotilla, the entire flotilla is now completely modernize. Two 052C and four 052D DDGs, as well as eight 054A FFGs would make this flotilla one of the strongest in the PLAN. With strong Fleet Air-Defense capability, as well as good ASW, and with the carrier Liaoning attached, they would become an effective strike group.
Maybe one of the reasons for that, is their job of protecting China's nuclear submarines from MPAs and submarines that would transit the Bashi-strait into the west pacific for deterrence patrol.
>>30609459
Part of the 9th Flotilla here. 4x054A and 2x052D
>>30609472
Though, this should be the end for the SSF for now. The next couple of 052D are for the North Sea Fleet, who are pretty much boxed in within the Yellow Sea. Even though their strategic area isnt nearly as important as the South's or East Sea Fleet's are, they still have to get new DDGs urgently. Pic shows 3 052Ds under contruction/fitting out in Dalian Shipyard, North-Eastern China.
Even though Sino-South Korean relationship is generally stable, despite the THAAD issue, having a stronger North Sea Fleet would allow them to better react the contigencies.
>>30607856
>Trans(asterisk)
What the fuck is the * for
>>30609125
>well as even long range MRLS (like the WS-2, SY-400, even PHL-03 300mm guided rockets) will be able to suppress any ROC defenses.
While impressive, you talk like you can suppress the entirety of taiwan with such a number of missiles.
Furthermore, softing defenses is not the elimination of defenses. Taiwan has had a very, very long time to dig in. Not only does china have to capture a beach head very fast, they have to capture Taiwan very fast. A protracted engagement is one where china loses, because the US will get involved if it is not decisive as fuck.
>Not to mention about China's airforce, that is guaranteed to win air-superiority over the Taiwan Strait at the very least.
Depends on what US assets are in place.
>Chances are, that entire ROC formations will already have been wiped out or routed before the invasion begins.
You cant invade on the assumption that there will be no standing force to oppose you. I sincerely hope that the PLA brass does not seriously think this. Again, the Taiwanese has had just as long to dig in as china has had to get missile emplacements.
>The US could place tripwire forces in Taiwan for all they care, but China's A2AD will prevent any effective relief effort before the PLA has completely conquered Taiwan and the bulk of their troops pouring in.
A2/AD is not a be all end all solution. The US has developed counter tactics decades ago to this (then) emergent threat.
>China's planners, as well as the Taiwanese analysts themselves are sure that Taiwan will fall within a week.
An other anlyists show that Taiwan is uniquly capable of defending itself.
https://news.usni.org/2014/03/26/taiwan-defend-chinese-attack
Their runways in particular have great damage control.
They built an airbase into a god damn mountain. Short of a nuke, Chiashan will be spewing out fighters, and can hold over 100 of them.
Hengshan will literally take nothing less than a nuke to take out.
Its not as cut an dry as you make it out to be
>>30609666
>Its not as cut an dry as you make it out to be
Yeah, no shit. They've been preparing exhaustively for The Big One since they first retreated to that fuckin island. They know it's coming, sooner or later. Which is one reason why China is so REEEE about Taiwan getting nuclear weapons. And their people have determination. They'd rather fight to the last man, woman and child than live under PRC rule.
Nice trips btw.
>>30609125
>but China's A2AD will prevent any effective relief effort
Yeah, naw, all their MLARs and invasion ships and such will be eating untold amounts of shit from our Ohio SSGN conversions, which are largely immune to all that "A2/AD" shit and carry 154 Tomahawks apiece. Two of those in the area would shit fucking fury all over any invasion attempt.
>>30609459
>Maybe one of the reasons for that, is their job of protecting China's nuclear submarines from MPAs and submarines that would transit the Bashi-strait into the west pacific for deterrence patrol.
Probably the best theory. The Liaoning is too run down (and China not experienced enough) to really sustain meaningful flight ops from that old fucker; (but then again she's just there as a training ship to learn how to do that.) She doesn't add much to air defense, but has enough point defenses that she ought to be able to take care of herself, and she *does* allow carrying heavy choppers for much better/more extensive ASW patrol as well as Ka-31s for organic AWACS coverage, both of which really enhance the power of the strike group to a significant degree. It also provides significant amphibious assault ability.
The Type 52D has enough cells and good enough tech that they can provide credible air defense and land attack capability on their own; the Liaoning augments them, rather than the 52Ds serving as her escort.
>>30609977
China's air and missile defense is far closer to their invasion fleet than the Ohio's Tomahawks are to their targets. The entirety of China's fleet is under protection screen.
It wont be that easy.
>>30609666
Taiwan's general capability is kinda bad. Their fighters are mostly obsolete F-5s and their 200+ F-16s wont stand a chance against the PLAAF, who will bring thrice the numbers of modern or BVR capable fighters to bear. Not to mention, runways can be cratered, no matter how many planes are in the mountains. The moment the eastern taiwanese squadrons fly over the central mountains, they will be in SAM range of HQ-9 missiles onboard Chinese destroyers - not to mention that the suppression and destruction of command and control would prevent any organized resistance.
>>30609948
Projections. Seriously. ROCA's morale is very low and readiness even lower:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/taiwan-spy-affair-shines-light-on-military-morale-1422334855
http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabrief/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=40996&cHash=c90aea17a261bdf85762692f2104d44f#.V4a3vLiLSUk
>>30609948
kek.
the Taiwanese youth are all talk about their will to fight.
In the end, they will end up like the HongKong youth, getting their morale broken by mere police with pepper sprays and old shopowners beating them with sticks.
These DYEL arent your Wolverines. They are the first to spread their ass-cheeks to let the PLA fuck them.
>>30610067
>hina's air and missile defense is far closer to their invasion fleet than the Ohio's Tomahawks are to their targets
You're assuming we can't put an Ohio SSGN right into the Taiwanese strait, if we so wanted to.
Trust me - we can. Especially with land-based SAMs from Taiwan, and constant fighter duels making the airspace over the strait a very unhealthy place for any MPA assets.
>Taiwan's general capability is kinda bad. Their fighters are mostly obsolete F-5s and their 200+ F-16s wont stand a chance against the PLAAF
Their F-16s have recently received significant modernization upgrades (with the assistance of the US) and Chinese fighters will be in range of Taiwan's extensive SAM network while they're still over the mainland - missiles can fly across the strait in both directions, you know.
>not to mention that the suppression and destruction of command and control would prevent any organized resistance.
You've got to be fucking kidding me, mate. They've had over fifty years to dig in deep - most of their command centers are deep in mountains impenetrable to anything but repeated megaton-class nukes - and likewise their internal lines of communication are going to be largely hardened, buried, redundant hardlines.
>>30610067
>Projections. Seriously. ROCA's morale is very low and readiness even lower:
Morale is a far cry from motivation. They're facing down a country that's much bigger, is dwarfing them with defense spending, and has isolated them from the rest of the world (which is why they can't buy the diesel-electric submarines they so desperately need.) As a people they still hate China - deeply. Just because they'd know they were screwed doesn't mean they would roll over and give up. Quite the opposite, I think.
And of course, there's the big, loud, star-spangled elephant in the room we've yet to address...
>>30610092
... and that elephant is standing right behind you, Mr. Pong Lenis.
I need you to understand something. I need you to understand it very, very well.
The United States has made support and alliance with Taiwan a centerpiece of its Asia strategy since WWII. The United States has stuck with it since the 1950s. Giving up on it now would be an obvious concession to China - a concession that America would never recover from. It would be the Fall of the Philippines all over again - a humiliation that America cannot afford and would never tolerate.
If you fuck with Taiwan, we'll kill you. It's that simple. You may question the resolve of the Taiwanese. It hasn't been tested yet.
Ours has.
>>30610229
>You've got to be fucking kidding me, mate. They've had over fifty years to dig in deep - most of their command centers are deep in mountains impenetrable to anything but repeated megaton-class nukes - and likewise their internal lines of communication are going to be largely hardened, buried, redundant hardlines.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Pic related. The creme of the ROCA.
Seriously, you should stop thinking that all of your allies and all non-commie countries are super-intelligent and super-competent. Because most are not. ROC included.
>>30610294
Taiwan cant stand against the PLA, even with US support. This is a fact.
>If you fuck with Taiwan, we'll kill you.
Lose your West Coast in exchange for Taiwan? Your decision.
>>30610303
More "modern communications" pic related.
And these WWII styled dug-outs with aim markings for their manual mortars... Yeah, they used to be effective against the PLA - in the 50s.
>>30610321
Maybe not, but speaking as an American, it is the patriotic duty of all loyal Taiwanese to make China's victory taste as bitter as defeat.
They can do that by turning Taiwan into the next Iraq insurgency.
Taiwan is a lot of mountains you know, overlooking the urban areas and major roads. Great place to fight an endless war of resistance. And for obvious reasons, it would be easy for the Taiwanese to disguise themselves as Chinese soldiers and launch surprise attacks.
China can occupy Taiwan and call it victory, but an insurgency can easily rise up against invaders.
>>30610339
ROCA's most modern Tank: M60.
They would suffer horrible losses when SADARM cluster rockets from the mainland MRLS arrive at their coast.
>>30610369
Again. Any insurgency needs a motivated people. And the very hedonistic Taiwanese youth are anything but suitable for that.
China simply enjoys such super-short logistic lines that they could flood that island with a million of troops and several millions of Chinese citizens shortly after to displace the original population.
>>30610399
Having everything stolen from you by outsiders is a great motivation to drive them out.
>>30610321
>Lose your West Coast
You're telling me China is willing to receive nuclear annihilation in exchange for Taiwan? Seriously, you slant-eyed little fucks are decades away from being able to swing a nuclear stick. Your warhead arsenal is miniscule and vulnerable to counter-force pre-emptive strikes, small enough to be seriously blunted by the US missile defense system and above all your nuclear missile submarines are woefully obsolete, noisy and have about as much chance of escaping American SSNs as a snowman in the sixth circle of Hell.
Not that any of this matters one bit, because the instant they fire on America, America's strategic missile corps will reduce all of China to one big smoking cinder. They'd have to be fucking insane to provoke a much more powerful nuclear power over a little island.
>>30610339
Wow chum, that's a picture of a mortar pit all right. Here's a picture of an American mortar pit. Everyone has mortars. What does that prove?
Unless you're trying to imply that Taiwan's very, very large arsenal of anti-ship missiles - on land-based launchers as well as their very sizeable fleet, including a fleet of fast-attack missile boats - doesn't exist, and that these mortar pits constitute the entirety of their shore defenses. In which case you're almost certainly a fiddycent trying to spread more lies.
>>30610375
>ROCA's most modern Tank: M60.
Hands-down superior to any tank the PLA can field in any significant numbers. Not that it much matters, considering Taiwan has a lovely, massive arsenal of anti-armor missiles (and is currently upgrading their stocks.) Taking the Taiwanese interior would be a very, very costly fight, no matter how you dice it.
>>30610427
Besides, what will Americans see when Taiwan is invaded by China?
A brave little democracy standing up to a cruel oppressor, reminding us of our own struggle for independence against the British.
We will support a Taiwanese insurgency against China. We may deny it officially, but we will.
>>30607013
>That pic
China's claim is such horse shit.
The US should just claim the entire Pacific to exemplify the silliness of it all
>>30610067
>China's air and missile defense is far closer to their invasion fleet than the Ohio's Tomahawks are to their targets.
Wew lad, you might want to look up the tomahawks range.
>>30610067
>Their fighters are mostly obsolete F-5s and their 200+ F-16s wont stand a chance against the PLAAF
Its not about winning, its about delay.
If those F-16's can put a dent in the ships trying to put soldiers on sand (or, rather, rocks in Taiwan case), it will stretch it out long enough for America to come to the rescue.
>Not to mention, runways can be cratered, no matter how many planes are in the mountains.
Chiashan and Chihhang are both located on the other side of the moutian range in taiwan, requiring missiles to fly around them, and long range ballistics irrelevant.
Chiashan has multiple, huge, runways, with taxiways that can be used as runways.
The entirety of the Taiwanese airforce infrastructure is backed up with Rapid Runway Repair system, along with Portarrest P-IV mobile aircraft arresting system for short landings on damaged runways. They also have plenty of highways that they have built to use as emergency landing strips.
Furthermore, they DO have plenty of AMRAAMs to use, and a very extensive ADN.
>not to mention that the suppression and destruction of command and control
Better use a nuke, becuase that is litterally what you will need to take out Hengshan Command Center.
Taiwan will be a very tough nut to crack.
>it's a 50 cent or Russiaboo faggot underestimates the US Navy submarine force episode
>>30610567
I'd say 80-90 percent of their claim is bullshit, based on where their actual coastline is. It's like China can't do basic geography.
Very little of what China claims has any basis on geographic reality. It's an absolute joke.
>>30610596
I should hope the Taiwanese have a vast inner mountain defense we don't even know about. Those mountains are excellent places to hide bases.
>>30610623
>I should hope the Taiwanese have a vast inner mountain defense we don't even know about.
Hell, we know all about the basics.
Their entire defense structure is in the mountains, they got two airbases that are based in the mountains.
They regularly drill on moving assets to from the western side to the more defending eastern side in the event of an attack.
I did not go into it, but the IADN is pretty fucking good. From mobile assets to hardened silo based launchers.
They also recently bought 100 apache AH-64E's, which are mean fucking birds, one of those gets a bead on ships landing troops, it will be a bad fucking day for the troops.
With data links in the E model, its possible that it could send its hellfires from behind cover (but this is unconfirmed; 2 secret for u)
>>30610678
Man the Taiwanese could go full WW2-Japanese Island-Defender on China's ass, but with way better technology.
China goes in one tunnel, the Taiwanese pop out another.
Okay - while we're on the topic, I'd like to ask, you know - just what are the Chinks smoking, here?
The problem with cratering runways is that runways are not terribly hard to repair - especially if you have resources and equipment in reserve designed specifically for repairing runways. (The Taiwanese have both, all American-made.) They even have a mobile arrestor-hook system to aid fighters landing on damaged runways that they can't use the full length of (there's a reason the runways leading to that hollowed-out mountain base are 7,500 feet long each.) That base also has runway-grade taxiways, IIRC, meaning you'd have to nail each taxiway to take out its ability to launch fighters as well. And they'll be repaired soon. Nailing runways IS a good strategy, but mainly to keep the fighters on the ground instead of harassing you long enough to put the airbase out of commission directly - by blowing up everything important, including the fighters on the ground, fuel and munition stores, etc.
Except the Chinese don't have anything that can penetrate that entire mountain - and not much that can penetrate targets like the hardened silos protecting their SAM defense batteries, either. If they did, they wouldn't need this: http://www.news.com.au/technology/china-releases-first-photos-of-df15c-bunker-buster-shortrange-ballistic-missile-with-deeppenetration-warhead/story-e6frfrnr-1226942286149
>CEP of 15-20 meters
Might help against the mountain bases (if they make it past the PAC-3 Patriot defenses, which are quite good) but hitting point targets like SAM silos? Good luck. And the great bulk of their ballistic missile forces are just normal old HE weapons; poor penetration and shit accuracy - more like rocket artillery than a knockout blow. What China really needs is precision-guided bunker-busting bombs, and attack aircraft capable of carrying them.
But what do they really have, in that regard? I don't even know if the Chinese HAVE a PGM bunker busting bomb.
>>30610567
EVERYONES claim is horse shit in that image. Look at Vietnams. Look at Brunei's.
There's a reason that the internationally accepted 'waters' for any nation is like 4km from the shoreline and everything else is bullshit posturing.
>>30608022
This has to be a chinese poster. That grammar...
So while we're at it, how about artillery?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_Army#Artillery
Check that shit out. A shitload of MRL weapons, and fuck me sideways but they've got 150 american-made 203mm guns. Eight-inch guns. Those are some big, big fucking guns; the US doesn't even use them anymore. And the Taiwanese have the benefit of a US Alliance - the United States has been the absolute best at precision artillery fire since WWII, and nothing's changed that. You can bet your sweet ass Taiwan can direct counter-battery fire across the strait.
For all their saber-rattling, most of China's military forces are still woefully obsolete - their modern, advanced systems are present in rather low numbers, and their old stuff is very vulnerable to new weapons, both surface and air launched. Unless they're hell-bent on ruling the air by running Taiwan out of SAMs, I'm not sure how they're going to achieve air superiority to knock out all those nasty hardened A2AD systems without taking staggering attrition losses.
>>30610832
>This has to be a chinese poster. That grammar...
just an old meme, newfriend.
>>30604943
>rocks
It may be a shitty little island but calling it "rocks" is some shady ass Clinton tier bullshit right there.
>>30611042
A rock is any feature above sea level. It has to be able to sustain continuous human habitation to count as an island, at least for the UN's legal definition anyways.
>>30611074
>rock
>1 rain collector
>1 fishing line
island
And now, I'm going over their aircraft inventory with Wikipedia (and a few other sources that don't suck ass:)
120 Q-5 attack jets (based on the MiG-19) but only 30 of them can actually use precision-guided munitions. And those are apparently limited to the LT-2 LGB; not a bunker-buster, and not a standoff weapon either. And they can only carry... two of them.
75 Su-27s and/or knockoffs thereof - that's a good multi-role fighter that can carry a precision-guided glide bomb (not a bunker buster either, but at least standoff).
J-7s (728 fucking airframes in service,) can carry... small cruise missiles (C-802/C-803) so I assume they can launch land-attack cruise missiles. Which doesn't do them much good; China can just fire those from the goddamned mainland if they want to.
Same story for the J-8s; (192 in service,) no confirmed or known PGM capability.
J-10 (240 in service,) they can carry the LT-2 LGB and the LS-6 glide bomb.
J-11s (205 or more in service,) are knockoffs of the Su-27 but a ton of them are using domestic-made engines which means they're horrid shit. No idea how many of those would perform worth a damn.
J-16s (24 in service,) an Su-30 knockoff. LS-6 and cruise missile capable. Krypton ARMs, too, like the Su-27s.
JH-7 Flounder (120 in service,) LT-2 and LS-6 capable, cruise missile capable, Krypton capable.
Now Taiwan has about 200 fairly modern (and modernized) air-superiority fighters in very, very heavily hardened facilities that would be hard to conclusively put out of action. Given the tiny area they have to defend... that's rather a lot. Esp. since the mountains shield them from artillery fire from the mainland, and cruise missiles are highly vulnerable to SAMs or even airborne intercept. China would have to devote all their Su-27s and a good number of their J-10s to air superiority missions, leaving JH-7s and the remaining J-10s as the only aircraft with PGM capability for close-air and interdiction...
>>30611123
I agree with you and Taiwan has really good air defenses plus some guy here said they have shit m60 tanks but who cares they have a lot of those and other American old tanks that have been upgraded by they have a lot of TOW, Javeline and APILAS missles(they have 1000 APILAS alone)
China would lose a lot and it would be extremely hard to win. Once Taiwan is able to get more submarines an invasion of the island would be impossible
>>30610229
>As a people they still hate China - deeply
As a people they ARE chinese, the only thing they hate is the communist government, and even that is a hatred from before they were born
>>30609977
Launching glorified WW2 V1 against China is not likely to be successful.
Didn't the Chicoms pick up the errant Taiwanese supersonic AShM last week?
>>30611123
>that would be hard to conclusively put out of action.
Putting bombs and mines on their entrances/exists is enough to ruin them for the duration of the conflict
China has no problem producing thousands of SRBM's
>>30611460
Pretty sure Taiwan's military has already come up with a countermeasure to that. They've had many decades to prepare for a Chinese invasion.
Taiwan needs:
-diesel electric submarines
-new 4.5 gen mainline figther to replace remaining F-5s and Mirage 2000s and F-CK-1s
-underwater recon/suicide attack drone system
-advanced sea mine system
-new modern MBT, so they can hit a Chinese beachhead with a massive counterattack as soon as they get ashore
-increased stocks of AMRAAMs, SAMs, stockpiled aviation/diesel fuel etc.
Basically they need to put as many missiles, mines and torpedoes as possible into the Chinese and make the best of the one chance they'll get to throw a heavy mechanized punch against whatever beachhead/airborne landing zones the Chinks do get.
However, none of this really helps them break a Chinese blockade (they could just cut off all air/sea contact with the island from outside the range of SAMs)
>>30611711
Personally if I was Taiwan, I'd want air and naval superiority. Plus enough missiles to blow up China's richest area, its coastal cities.
>>30611711
I doubt they'd be able to get anything more advanced than the Gripen.
>>30611607
ok? And china has had decades to figure out how to attack Taiwan
With several multiples of their population & budget
>>30610763
Vietnam have most of the Spratly islands
they lost most of the Paracel islands to China in 1974
so their claim is understandable
>>30611765
Yet still hasn't, for some reason.
I'm not sure how this would be done, but ROC needs something to ensure that even in a degraded C&C environment they can still find targets for their rocket artillery and truck-mounted anti-ship missiles.
Perhaps large numbers of cheap drones? Or those man-portable coastal radars that Finland uses. Gotta have the sensor capabilities highly distributed or everything will be eating anti-radiation missiles or just in the dark after jamming and missile strikes degrade communications
They also need to hide as much shit among civilians as possible. Take a cue from the Arabs. They should have a bunch of AShM batteries hidden in civilian-looking semi trucks and back up radars/comms arrays that are never turned on hidden away in various civilian-looking buildings. Minelayers that look like civilian fishing trawlers. Ya'll get the picture. ADDED BONUS: When the Chinese blow this shit up you can cry about the "atrocity" and "deliberate attacks on innocent civilians" to the international media.
>>30611738
How do you think they'll achieve "superiority"? Their only hope is asymmetric capabilities.
>>30611292
>Launching glorified WW2 V1 against China
>vast majority of China's vaunted A2AD weapons are the exact same kind of weapon
>>30611460
>Putting bombs and mines on their entrances/exists is enough to ruin them for the duration of the conflict
>"CEP of 15-20 meters"
>>30611711
>-new modern MBT, so they can hit a Chinese beachhead with a massive counterattack as soon as they get ashore
Also I've been reading all over that Taiwan is working to buy refurbished M1A1 Abrams. They want at least 120 of them.
>>30611831
THIS.
>>30611906
They won't achieve superiority. They just need to wipe out as many invaders as possible.
>>30611906
Here's what I would develop if I was Taiwan's Chief of Naval Staff
>simple, autonomous underwater drone with long-lasting battery (can move at slow pace underwater for days/weeks)
>has sonar system
>carry warhead
>programmed to activate high-speed torpedo engine when sonar signatures of large vessel detected
>hundreds/thousands of them put into water at start of war, moving up and down Taiwan Strait in search pattern, set to auto-engage
>>30611098
Death from malnutrition.
>>30611964
You literally just described a CAPTOR mine. Naval mine that fires a torpedo.
>>30612006
but is it mobile
>>30612018
Doesn't really have to be. Mines are an area-denial weapon. "HERE BE MINES, FUCK OFF SCRUB." With the torpedo they can be anchored deep, on the seafloor (much, much MUCH harder to detect) and travel a much longer distance; and they can be deployed from mobile platforms (subs, ships, aircraft, etc,) soon before they're needed.
So yes, I guess.
>>30611758
Gripen wouldn't be too bad of a choice for Taiwan
>is cheap
>has ok STOL capabilities
>good dogfighter because small/tight turning radius (Taiwan/Taiwan Strait = relatively small engagement area)
>Taiwan doesn't really need excellent range because playing defense
>not a major stealth threat from Chinese
>>30604977
Freedom of the seas chinaboo.
Where do you thing all that chinese shipping is headed? The west coast of the US maybe?
Why would the chinese need to control an area the US is already guaranteeing is free to everyone?
Unless china has a problem with that?
>>30611123
I cant find much information on the wikipedia page about the J-11 and exactly how many if them have Chinese engine fitted.
Apparently though, its the WS-10A, not the WS-10. The WS-10A is supposed to be an "improved variant", which means it produces more thrust and I´m assuming its more reliable, although wikipedia doesn´t specificically say that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_WS-10#Variants
Are there any experts on Chinese jet engines here?
>>30612087
Also the Taiwanese could probably tinker with it a bit. Exploit their own familiarity with advanced tech.
This plane is so cute, /k/ would adopt it if such a thing was possible.
>>30612237
Yes, they could definitely upgrade Gripens in-house
>>30612261
Here's hoping Taiwan can persuade the Swedes to give it Gripens. I'd love to see what upgrades the Taiwanese will give said aircraft.
>>30611711
>>30611738
>>30611906
>>30611964
If we're wishing for things that won't happen, what Taiwan needs above all else is better commitment from their allies. The reason they're using M60s and have to come up with half-cooked shit like the Ching Kuo is because they've spent so much time basically abandoned by their allies. It's like the lite version of why North Korean weapons are so shit- not for neglect or lack of want, but because nobody wants to sell weapons to a political pariah.
There is no realistic way they can stop a PRC invasion on their own, short of having a nuclear deterrent. The PRC will just keep politically isolating Taiwan until they reach the point that nobody gives a fuck that there's a Chinese blockade- at which point they can just freeze mainland assets and wait out the ROC economy for a peaceful capitulation.
Diplomatic solidarity would go further than anything. That's precisely why the Philippines can wrestle with China over the South China Seas even though they're a dogshit country with a dogshit military that could never enforce any sort of treaty lines on its own.
>>30611938
>admits Tomahawk is glorified WW2 V1
>internet off line last week when Taiwan launched HF-3
>>30611831
whats there to gain? Taiwan will willingly join China soon enough
>>30604977
>they both see them as strategic positions
Thats not the issue. The issue is that if those islands get recognized then china controls a large portion of the resource rights in the area. Its all about resource rights.
Nobody gives (too much of) a fuck about what is essentially a stationary aircraft carrier, they care about the surrounding waters.
Its rediculous if you can fabricate an island. How would china like if we sailed a barge right up next to their EEZ and sunk it, making a reef and claiming it as US soil? By law that would give the US rights to half of what used to be chinese waters in some way or another, because when teritorial water claims overlap, by international law you just split the difference.
>>30605000
Gun control would get put on back burner for awhile
>>30612862
>Its rediculous if you can fabricate an island.
It's ridiculous to think you own vast areas of the ocean just because you happen to have an island there
How does building islands change that?
Legitimacy of claims doesn't matter much, its not like anyone else has any legitimate claims to these waters. Or any ability to contest china.
>>30612913
Its pretty serious business. There are a lot of resources in and under the sea, who owns what has to be agreed upon, and it was. Everybody agreed to the rules.
Building an island doesnt, but china thinks it does, thats the issue. By international law only naturally occuring islands whos surface is above sea level count, those are only things that can be claimed and by extension grant claim to the surounding waters.
Chinas fabricated islands do not count for this, and so chinas claim is invalid. Thats what the conflict is about, not china placing some military presence.
>its not like anyone else has any legitimate claims to these waters
Thats the point, nobody has claim to those waters and so they are free to international use, people can fish there, people can do whatever they want there. "whatever they want" includes building fake islands to park planes on. Thats not the issue, is the issue is chinas claim to owning the sea. Thats what everyone is dusputing and thats what everyone cares about because if china can ignore the international laws then suddenly nobodys offshore oil fields and natural gas deposits are safe.
You dont fuck with oil rights, thats like rule number 1 to not starting a huge fucking war.
>>30612799
Taiwan needs to make common cause with its neighbors.
fuck year!
island chinks vs. asian mexicans, final destination!
>>30609268
Taiwan's SF are notoriously blue loyal, they have contingencies to fight a protracted guerrilla style war in the mountains, or liquidate the Taiwanese civilian leadership. Depending on who's in power when the red chinese invade.
>>30610491
>You're telling me China is willing to receive nuclear annihilation in exchange for Taiwan?
Waste nukes and have a smaller nuke number than Russia? If America nukes China, China and Russia will nuke America. Russia has no choice, he is sworn to defend China.
>>30613275
>Its pretty serious business.
Why then is the United States the one major country to NOT sign the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
So the rules should apply to China and not Murica?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
>>30613640
Because its America.
bumpen
There are too many gooks and too many nukes, lets reduce them in one go
>>30613635
>Russia has no choice, he is sworn to defend China.
Wew lad.
>>30604949
Not just water, but control of some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world and access to fishing grounds.
>>30610567
Everyone's claims are horseshit.
That's what the Hague said, even though Western media makes it sound like it was only an anti-China ruling.
>>30611123
>120 Q-5 attack jets (based on the MiG-19) but only 30 of them can actually use precision-guided munitions.
(Citation needed)
>>30613640
The USA get's away with it because it more or less maintains the status quo. While they never signed the UNCLOS, they usually act in favor of it.
The USA knows that it can crop out some trade deals for those resources should they protect the interests/claims of countries in favor of them.
>>30610491
Well fucking said
>>30604943
Chinks are the worst kind of Asian niggers
I hope Trump gets elected and we put every effort into rebuilding, strengthening and ramping up the military so we can nuke China into oblivion
Chinks are the most arrogant disgusting cunts in the entire world
China isn't crazy enough to invade Taiwan. Pictures of dead Taiwanese will rattle the international community. China will surely receive condemnations and sanctions. It's not like Iraq with some dictator that some people don't like. Taiwan is a prosperous democracy. China would be insane to invade with all eyes on them. So yea, it ain't happening. New China is pragmatic.
>>30613635
Russia
>Defending China
Russia would probably take a nuked China as an opportunity to invade over the Siberian-Chinese border
Mandatory reading for any China thread
>>30613635
Hahahahahahahhahabahahahah
>>30611711
>diesel electric submarines
We are starting the building process of it, because US won't sell us one.
>new 4.5 gen mainline figther to replace remaining F-5s and Mirage 2000s and F-CK-1s
If any nation is willing to sell us that would be great, hell we can't even get F-16C/D(We got a "upgrade"project for A/B)
>underwater recon/suicide attack drone system
Way to fucking expensive to develop/produce one. again, no one would sell us one.
>advanced sea mine system
not a bad idea
>new modern MBT
We are looking at Abrams, but it is the downgrade version(diesel engine, no depleted uranium armor/shell)
>increased stocks of AMRAAMs, SAMs, stockpiled aviation/diesel fuel
we already have a shit ton of them
To be honest I doubt we can fight PLA on our own, our strategy has long been bog them down and "hope" US would come to aid, I mean we have good armament(hell, we rank 13 on the military strength)but the country around us is waaaay to fucking strong even for us.
