More evidence that Ausfags can't into counter-terror mounts.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-11/police-sergeant-admits-changing-sydney-siege-statement-inquest/7587098
/k/, from a purely tactical level, what decisions would you have made/be expected to have made different?
>>30581501
let TAG-East take the job rather than the tactical operations unit seeing as they literally train to do this shit all of the time and are obviously better trained and equipped. it was a terrorist threat, and TAG-E should have been used.
>>30581501
>More evidence that Ausfags can't into counter-terror mounts.
One crazy faggot with a shotgun taking hostages isn't exactly 'terrorism' on a grand scale, so it stays a domestic police action.
Until ->>30581527 >TAG-East gets authorised and I believe that's at the behest of the PM, if the cops on the ground aren't going to escalate it to that level, then it stays a domestic police action in their care. Which they really wont want to do, because the question comes back to "so why do we give you money if you're incompetent cunts" and need the military called in because you can't handle one bozo with a shotgun?
Much as the cops get a bit of stick over it, they have headed off a lot worse things over the last 15 years in conjunction with intelligence agencies and the Fed-Pol.
>>30581571
>so why do we give you money if you're incompetent cunts
some ex-member of Tag-E wrote an article about it and basically just said that they would have done things a lot differently to TOU. plus TOU literally killed a hostage, so they look a lot more incompetant than passing the bat to a group which conducts CT operations for the entire eastern side of australia - especially given the fears of a suicide switch/detonator on him and the threats of bombs and a secondary bomber throughout the siege.
essentially what i'm saying is that TOU need more training and a wider arsenal. so rather than dump them in favour of tag-e, train them up to be a viable alternative to tag-e.
>>30581598
Ah I get you.
Thing with our forces is that we dump a huge amount of money, time and training into them- which you just can't do with the coppers as they've also got to do their regular jobs and also the modus between the two groups is also quite different.
TOU are there primarily to preserve life- they'll take all steps they can to avoid causing unnecessary casualties to the hostages AND the bad guy. Its a tough gig- I don't envy them at all.
TAG, will storm in there, fuck his shit up nine ways to Sunday, beat the piss out of all the hostages just to make sure and go home. I mean technically you can tell TAG not to murder the cunt, but they'll just say it was situational problem at the time of breach and kill the stupid fucker anyway :)
Breach tactics aren't easy.
There's always a chance someone will get shot accidentally, its the nature of the beast when you're combining reflexes, group cohesion, guns and raw aggression. So having a viable alternative to TAG-E within the TOU groups of the Police just isn't viable imo, they can learn off each other, but its just too different a world to effectively crossover.
>>30581501
why did they use M4's over whatever smg they're supposed to main
why did they fuck up with flashbangs at night while also having night-vision goggles on
literally no clue what they were doing
>>30581688
There's a reason pretty much every SF and every US SWAT team uses M4s.
The "pistol rounds penetrate less than 5.56mm" meme needs to die.
>>30581598
>some ex-member of Tag-E wrote an article about it and basically just said that they would have done things a lot differently to TOU
Link please?
>>30581724
not even penetration, but ricocheting (which caused the death of the hostage) was more likely with higher-velocity 5.56mm
>>30581726
Look up Mitchell McAllister from SOFREP
He was in the 2nd Commando Regiment, and then went to TAG E
I think I spelt his name right, btw he's a pretty funny guy
>>30581726
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-29/counter-terrorism-specialist-questions-sydney-siege-weapons/6053706
this one references and has some exerts of it. it was through a SOF online magazine which requires subscription.
https://sofrep.com/39276/an-operators-perspective-on-the-sydney-siege-pt-1/
it's a pain in the ass but there's 4 parts where he goes through every facet of it.
>>30581741
is there anyway to get access to the article without subbing? PDF online?
also it sounds like he's just going to have a retarded far-right whinge, judging by the first 2 paragraphs
>The man who held 17 people hostage for over 16 hours during the Martin Place siege in Sydney was not a terrorist. Man Haron Monis, or the ‘fake sheik’, was not a ‘real’ Muslim and did not have any links to radical Islamic groups. His actions on that Monday morning did not have any political overtones or an agenda influenced by an extremist religious ideology.
>Well, that’s certainly what it appears the government, authorities, experts, and mainstream media want you to believe.
>>30581734
No it's not.
When pistol rounds strike things they usually stay as a single solid mass. 5.56mm rounds however usually will break apart.
>>30581741
>http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-29/counter-terrorism-specialist-questions-sydney-siege-weapons/6053706
Lol, the dude only spent 3 years in SF. That means he washed out before he completed training.
>>30581749
not quite sure. I somehow read it at the time of release. the first part is kind of setting the scene, but he very much gets into depth about what was done and what could have been done.
>>30581750
citation needed
>>30581759
Citation needed for your claim about ricochets
>>30581755
>Mitchell McAlister, an 11-year veteran of the Australian Army with the last six years of his career served as an operator with the 2nd Commando Regiment, Special Operations Command Australia. Mitchell completed three Special Operations Task Group rotations to Afghanistan and spent the last two years of his career as an assaulter with the Tactical Assault Group - East.
the ABC article says he spent 2 years within the Tag-E group, which is a sub group of the 2nd commandos.
>>30581756
>the first part is kind of setting the scene
as much as the event should have been the domain of dedicated CT, the actual motivations for the guy are clearly a mixture of legal troubles, mental illness, interpersonal relationship failures. He was an errant Shia who practiced tarot, hypnosis, psychic mind-readings, raped (and set alight) women. He has more in common with a serial rapist or fucking Family Court Daddy than with the guys who perpetrated the Paris nightclub attacks.
>>30581763
ur mom
>>30581770
i'm not arguing any of that. i'm just saying he's trying to put forward some background scene before he actually begins to evaluate and discuss the situation - might make it more palatable or give it that extra flair that will get people to read all 4 parts.
>>30581763
literally see >>30581755 >>30581741
>>30581778
I appreciate your level headedness but all the same, he doesn't need to do that, it's at best excessive feelpinion anecdata, at worst straight out ideological drivel that detracts from the substance of the article. Indeed, I'm marginally less inclined to trust his opinions if he oversteps his boundaries and starts whinging about Halal certification for Cadbury chocolate funding Man Monis, support our Lindt Jews, etc
>>30581750
>Today a coronial inquiry into their deaths confirmed Ms Dawson died after being hit by fragments from a police bullet.
>5.56mm rounds however usually will break apart.
if that 9mm or .45 round was used from an UMP this would have been less likely to happen, companero
>>30581791
yeah i see what you mean. in all honesty, i kind of just skipped that shit when i came across it. i was reading the article for insights from someone who knows his shit on these sorts of raids, not some political and ideological rant that has no effect at all on how they operated and how they should have operated.
>>30581755
Not sure you know how the training cycle works amigo....
>>30581812
for sure. anyway, no way I'm subbing for this as much as I wanna read it. Does /k/ have any torrent or dropbox or whatever with this sorta stuff?
>>30581739
>Mitchell McAllister
what a fucking retard
