Can someone explain to me just what the fuck is going on in Crimea?
Are the Ukraine and Russia officially at war or what?
So far, all I understand is that Russia claimed Crimea was rightful Russian clay and that the Ukraine couldn't join the EU. The Ukraine told Putin to go fuck himself, so he sent in unmarked and unidentified soldiers (which is illegal as fuck, isn't it?) to start capturing Ukrainian military assets in the region.
So is Crimea part of Russia now? Or is it it's only little country ruled by pro-Russia separatists, like Texas was before it was annexed?
What the fuck is going on? What is Putin's end game? Why the fuck hasn't NATO and the US done anything?
>>30458720
>Can someone explain to me just what the fuck is going on in Crimea?
Russian majority left over after one of the Soviet leaders said this was rightful Ukrainian clay. Now it is rightful Russian clay that is officially Ukrainian clay, which has no control over.
>So is Crimea part of Russia now? Or is it it's only little country ruled by pro-Russia separatists, like Texas was before it was annexed?
Officially no. Practically yes. Ukrainian is in disarray because they're government sucks balls and Kiev is probably as far as it can be from it's "rightful" land.
>What the fuck is going on? What is Putin's end game? Why the fuck hasn't NATO and the US done anything?
Crimea is essentially Russia's now. Putin plans on having it that way. NATO and the US don't wanna get involved because we don't need a war/cold war.
Personally Crimea is rightfully Russia's. Historically Russian majority. Historically Russian port. Russia has fought several wars over it. Russia is superior to Ukraine in almost every aspect (including stability.)
>>30459011
I see. So, for once, Russia isn't the asshole in this situation?
Why the fuck did the Ukraine get to take Crimea when the Soviet Union fell apart anyways? I mean who got to decide the borders of all that shit when it fell apart? If it was divided along the boundaries of the individual SSRs before the breakup, why was the Ukrainian SSR ever given control over a historically Russian province?
>>30459057
it was a calculated move on putin's part, to drive a wedge between NATO leaders who wanted to expand the missile shield west, and economic leaders who don't want trouble.
for once it seems not to be a dick move beyond that, sure there economy is getting anally reemed from sanctions and low gas prices.
was it worth it for russia? only time will tell
>>30459057
they didnt take it, it was given to them. during the cold war the soviet union redrew its borders
TL;DR
>Ukraine is run by corrupt billionaire asshole who has a good relationship with Putin
>corrupt billionaire asshole is overthrown in a revolution and replaced with a corrupt billionaire asshole that isn't in Russia's pocket
>Russia has military bases in Crimea, and Crimea has an ethnic Russian majority
>""local militias"" block off Ukrainian police and military installations and a referendum is held under the little green men that decides that Crimea will be Russian now
>that will teach you to border Russia and try to have an independent foreign policy
And then little green men showed up in Eastern Ukraine, and shit really kicked off.
>>30459231
That's what doesn't make sense to me. I mean, it seems like even if the Soviet Union thought it would last forever, why would you give one of your most strategic naval bases to a SSR that isn't the "capital" SSR (the Russian SSR).
That would be like suddenly saying that US military bases aren't federal property and are now owned by the local states. It's fucking pants on head retarded.
And if it was given to them, that makes Putin an Indian giver. Nobody likes those dicks.
>>30459308
Bonus points, in the 90s, when there were still thousands of nuclear weapons left in Ukraine, Ukraine agreed to give up their nuclear stockpiles if the US and Russia agreed not to invade them.
Russian soldiers occupied Crimea. Then held a referendum where there was no choice to stay with Ukraine.
>>30459057
pretty much this >>30459231
Russia is the asshole, of their own making. I don't know why we didn't project more power, but it could be because, as others have said, shitty gov't in Ukraine as well. I can't think of when Obama made a clear statement on it, so I can only guess.
>>30459383
Ukraine wasn't a NATO country.
What are you gonna do.
Well, you can sanction the shit out of Russia and use the opportunity to scoop up the rest of Eastern Europe.
>>30459057
Crimea was seceded to Ukraine in the fifties because Russia couldn't effectively govern it as the only land connection is in Ukraine. And the only reason why there is a Russian majority is due to Russia importing massive numbers of ethnic Russians while deporting natives, a common occurrence throughout Eastern Europe.
>>30459185
It will never be worth it for Russia unless the price of oil spikes well above what it was a few years ago and Russia is willing to invest a massive amount of money to create infrastructure, industry, and agriculture. The estimated timeline for building the transportation and utility infrastructure to make Crimea independent of Ukraine was something like ten years minimum before the sanctions.
>>30459411
You can do the exact same stupid shit Russia was doing if you really wanted to. It might have been worth it just to keep Putin from getting political points. We could have sanctioned the shit out of them the entire time as well. We could have sent in the UN as a peace keeping endeavor. We could have come up with all sorts of ways to get more involved.
>>30459011
>Russia is superior to Ukraine in almost every aspect (including stability.)
>(including stability.)
>>30459646
>sent in the UN
Russian security Council veto.
Putin's endgame in Ukraine is the same as in Georgia and Moldova; a Russian-backed separatist movement effectively controls territory in all these countries and creating a frozen conflict. The frozen conflict prevents the countries from joining NATO and aligning with Europe (when Putin wants them under Russia's sphere of influence).
>>30458720
>Why the fuck hasn't NATO and the US done anything?
Nobody except Ukrainian's are willing to die for Ukraine.
Gonna dump some Crimea pictures.
>Russian naval recon mixed with naval infantry
>>30460182
>Naval Infantry in Sevastopol, Crimea
>>30460196
>Chillin
>>30460225
>"militiamen"
>>30460196
why is digital flora so sexy
>>30460196
Are Tigrs much bigger than HMMWVs or are Russians just not big guys?
>>30460249
>Trading in the Zone
>>30460276
>>30460271
I think it's just the angle, they look smaller here.
Not saying they're small, they're almost 2 feet taller than Humvees.
>>30459011
>>30460225
"When I tell Yuri 'sweep the perimeter for IEDs' he does not get my meaning."
>>30460332
>VDV
>>30460440
>We're all friends in the Zone
Seriously what in the fuck, international news.
>Ukraine
>Rioters claiming corruption
>Russia walks in
>Port is ours
>Riots disappear
>Males join Army
News was leaked Russia wasn't official there till a soldier fucked up and posted on social media.
Some kid here posting about captured SKS.
>>30459057
>Russia isn't an ass hole in this situation
For crimea, yes. For Ukraine and the eastern civil war, partially, but their action is rational. Ukraine was never really it's own country in the east and south.
The modern borders of Ukraine are larger than it ever was. You can see how the country is splitting now with crimea and the eastern breakoff. These lands have always been Russian ethnically. They weren't apart of Kievan rus, they weren't apart of their Polish Lithuania territory, they weren't apart of ottoman territory, and they weren't there when the Russian empire formed up until the modern day.
Kruschev gave Ukraine these areas despite them being in the USSR at the time for holodomor apologetics as well as economic/logistic reasons because the sliver of Russian ssr territory around there was a pain in the ass to govern from the Russian state. It was just easier to make it a part of the Ukraine ssr for lower level governing etc.
The decision had no USSR breakup in mind. Ukraine stayed very close to Russia after the break up due to the large amount of Russians in the population. They saw the post USSR revolutions where ethnic Russians were trapped into countries without a way to go home. The countries that didn't have the Russian minority in mind had things like northern Georgia or transnitria situations develop.
>continued because this post is getting too long.
Modern going on in next post
>>30460458
>Bitches be mirin my VSS
>>30460478
sudetenland.jpg
>>30460481
>GRU shenanigans
>>30459057
>>I see. So, for once, Russia isn't the asshole in this situation?
They kinda are since they were the ones that sent armed forced to Crimea and lied about them not having any affiliations to Russia. They are the aggressors.
>>30460498
>VDV petting dogs
>>30460535
>more VDV
>>30460512
>They kinda are since they were the ones that sent armed forced to Crimea and lied about them not having any affiliations to Russia.
Not to say they weren't the aggressors but marines were already there, the black sea fleet bases in Sevastopol.
>>30460576
>#artzy
>>30460613
>Ukraine's rusting S300s
>>30460627
>>30460498
what are dude in middle and right holding?
grenade launcher?
>>30460675
>>30460715
GM-94, pump action grenade launchers
>>30460727
>>30458720
>Why the fuck hasn't NATO and the US done anything?
Ukraine is not in NATO, and Russia has been extremely clear about how much they oppose Ukraine having NATO membership, making it very clear that they will aim missiles right at Ukraine if they start talking about it. The west likes to poke the Russian bear every now and then, then the Russian bear stands up, and then Yurope runs and hides behind the US and demands that the US do something about the big, evil bear that they in absolutely no way provoked. Russia and the US don't want a war, and most NATO allies are keenly aware of how badly they would get rekt by the Russians, particularly without American support.
So the US makes noises at Russia, and things eventually cool down after Russia basically does what it was going to do in the first place and then doesn't invade Europe like panicked Yurofags always think is going to happen.
Then the Yuropeans kept pissing off the Russians, talks were had about Ukraine again having NATO membership and possibly joining the EU. Russia REALLY didn't like that, and then Russia decided that it was about time that Crimea returned to Russian control. So Putin made it so, and everyone looked impotently on as the Russians took what was historically theirs in the first place.
>Is Crimea part of Russia now?
Effectively yes, but no one beyond Russia is officially recognizing it. But Ukraine is in no position to do shit about it, nor will they be at any time in the near future.
>Unmarked and unidentified soldiers, isn't this illegal?
I mean, can anyone prove beyond the shadow of a doubt what these people are? Even if they could, the Russians would disavow them and then the accusers are back at square one without having evidence of direct orders from the Russian government. It's not like the US and every other developed nation doesn't send in unmarked soldiers and offer a bunch of military supplies to developing countries in order to run proxy wars in their favor.
>>30460746
>>30459422
Russia just built a giant pipeline with China for natural gas to help deal with the issue of depending almost entirely on the Europeans purchases of natural gas to keep things going in Russia.
Oil isn't becoming more plentiful, and green energy still isn't a meaningful means of providing energy for most countries. Eventually prices will bounce back and the sanctions won't mean shit once the Russians wait it out.
Besides, Trump likes the Russians. And Shillary has a long history of accepting Russian bribes for political favors. Whoever ends up in the White House is basically Putin's buddy.
>>30460003
This.
Somehow people forget why the UN is such a limp dicked organization in the first place. Almost like China and Russia veto everything that the west likes, and vice versa.
>>30460850
Everyone wants to be a part of NATO. They're just not in the right geography.
Russia is pure fucking evil no matter how you split a map they've done the entire world more harm than they can ever do good.
Everything in their influence wants independence or to join the west like America or anything to do with America.
>>30459057
>>30460478
The Russian minority which was close to being a majority was not a problem because of the aforementioned closeness.
Anyway, the ethnic division issue was basically solved for the time being. Unfortunately this meant that sans having a referendum, the Ukrainian state was basically forced to have close ties to Moscow. The Ukrainians did not want to lose the Russian east because it was the economic and industrial powerhouse of their nation.
After many years of enduring this, things really started to come to a head starting in around 2008. Ukraine and her people were extremely limited to their future because of the Russian ties which were a patch up job for a massive problem. Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Poland, Estonia, and Hungary were doing very well while Ukraine seemed to be stagnating.
The clanking happened, and the revolution which looked small but went uncrushed really woke up the Ukrainian people. Backed by Western money and leaders that already started talking to Europe, it became clear that Ukraine was going to swing.
However, there were massive anti Russian sentiments in the revolutions that grew exponentially. The leaders began pandering to this view to stir up more support, but didn't negotiate or talk with Russia, leaving Sevastopol and the eastern Russians left up in the air.
As they deposed the government, the Sevastopol and eastern Russian situation looked grim as anti Russian sentiment grew exponentially. Sevastopol is the Russian San Diego naval base in importance.
The Russians originally secured crimea and the naval base to force talks with the Ukrainians, but the public wished for referendum heavily. The vote was not even corrupt. The ethnic Russians really wanted out in crimea.
However this awakened the eastern Russians who would get no such referendum, so they started revolting against Ukraine. Ukraine didn't want to lose them of course, so it became a full civil war.
Putin used that to take eyes off of crimea.
>>30459011
>Officially no. Practically yes
It is, both officially and practically.
>>30458720
>US gets mad at Russia because Russia doesn't want NATO bases and troops literally on the Russian border and inside Russian sphere of influence
>US gets more mad at Russia for acting to defend its interests and attempts to destroy the Russia economy
>US gets booty mad when Russians build missile silos in Cuba and tries to send nuclear missiles there, 90 miles off the coast of Florida
>US threatens nuclear war, Russians back down and accept that it was probably never going to happen
>>30459422
>while deporting natives
What "natives"? Tatars were settled there by the Ottoman Empire. Before that there were Sarmathians and Greeks and Goths and who knows else. There are no "Crimean natives".
>>30460911
>Russia is pure fucking evil no matter how you split a map they've done the entire world more harm than they can ever do good.
Just because they undermine western efforts for their own gain doesn't mean they're "pure fucking evil".
That's just how the world works, there is no "good" or "bad" when it comes to politics, they're all inherently "bad".
>>30460911
...you do understand the difference between NATO and the UN, right?
>Russia is pure evil
Oh, I see. You're still in high school and are incapable of why Russia wouldn't want a bunch of NATO bases right on its door step, and would do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening.
I bet you think the US would respond positively to Russia creating a military alliance with Cuba, Canada, and Mexico and then installing missile silos and Russian military bases in all of those places.
>>30460778
I am traveling to Ukraine next spring (first 2 weeks of may) is there any places I should 100% avoid? Any places I should go? I know /trv/ but figured security was more fitting for this thread.
>>30461005
>That's just how the world works, there is no "good" or "bad" when it comes to politics, they're all inherently "bad".
This.
It's me. vs you. and us vs. them.
Unless you're Swiss
>>30461027
Some pics from the conflict
>>30460765
Vatnik detection.
>>30461044
>>30458720
>Why the fuck hasn't NATO and the US done anything?
None of their fucking business.
>>30461044
Because fuck that cross thingy, it's going DOWN!
>>30461029
The Black Sea, Polish architecture in the western Ukraine and Kiev. The rest of the country is basically a village.
>>30460778
wat
>>30460512
>sent armed forced to Crimea
They already were in Crimea, anon.
>>30460933
Sorry for the length of the posts.
>anyhow
Originally the eastern civil war was supplied by the number of former Soviet soldiers and ammo dumps in the area, but Putin used this as a way to get eyes off of crimea and used it as a way to legitimize Russian crimea. Ukraine basically gave it away for real after formerly ignoring the referendum to make sure the Russian military doesn't invade.
The anti Russian sentiment that exponentially grew during the revolution became apparent in the Ukrainian military. The liberal revolutionaries in the capital were outnumbered by the violence and revenge minded people outside of the cities. It was basically neo nazis. Descendents of those that died in the holodomor and those from the very west who volunteered for the nazis during world War 2.
This revolution brought them all together out of the woodwork and into the Ukrainian military. They formed their own battalions that committed serious atrocities on the Russians even before the revolution went violent in the east. They cracked down on the ethnic Russians as hard as the soviets did In Hungary.
Although they were the minority of Ukrainians, they caused the revolution to go violent, growing violent anti Russian sentiment in return that superceded the few neo nazi battalions.
Russia armed them and trained them as well as gathering volunteers because of these growing atrocities. It was turning into an ethnic war like the Yugoslavia wars.
Now they're really divided on both sides, Ukrainians are extremely anti Russian and the Russians are extremely anti Ukrainian, and Ukraine is doing very badly because of the uncertainty and war.
Hope this explains everything.
It is heavily propaganda filled on every side. Unfortunately, many people don't remember how it started or why.
The most tragic thing is the rising ethnic conflict that came about because of it. A small minority of cunts turned the eastern revolt into a bloodbath.
>>30461048
Retard detected.
Not a vatnik. I am an American who doesn't believe in screaming USA USA every single time something happens in the world that the President doesn't like.
It's almost like I'm an individual who is capable of being rational and not blindly loyal and supportive of every little thing that my country does on an international scale.
Russia opposes NATO and EU membership for the countries immediately surrounding them. I don't know why people think of this as being surprising. Why in the fuck would the Russians want a bunch of NATO troops chilling on their doorstep?
And if you think that the Europeans don't try to piss the Russians off on a regular basis, you're just a retard who simply buys into everything they see on tv without question.
Maybe I could sell you a super dicer for the LOW PRICE of 79.99. If you order now, you'll get TWO for the price of one! This is a great deal, don't miss out!
>>30461057
>>30461151
>>30461116
censor this
>>30461162
>Thu
>>30461176
>>30461102
I'll assume you mean i should go there. have you been? did you hike any mountains in the west?
>>30461186
>>30461217
>>30461192
My friend travelled there annually, got it from his words.
>>30461293
Thanks, Just looking into some of the coastline along the blacksea(crimea excluded) looks beautiful.
>>30461299
Crimea excluded your best bet would naturally be Odessa.
>>30461330
absolutely on the list. /k/, is Kharkov pretty much out the window at this point in time?
US funds neo nazis
Neo nazis riot, overthrow govt
Begin killing ethnic Russians
Crimea votes to join Russia
>>30461457
Sure is a lot of FSB in this thread.
>>30461398
There are no happenings in Kharkov, but to my understanding apart from a couple of nice architecture pieces it's just an ordinary city. There might however be a lot of some nice /k/-related stuff like museums, exhibitions or so, since the local tank factory and design bureau were among the largest in the USSR.
>>30461518
DAMAGE CONTROL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY
>>30461529
I did "Nazi" that coming did jew? Sorry for putting you on this "Holocoaster" of a ride. To be "Anne Frank" about this, these puns put me out of "mein kampfort" zone.
>>30461547
Huge tank/war museum, I thought the whole east side of the country was unsafe? is it just southeast?
>>30461624
It's safe on both sides of the border, the only unsafe place is the warzone itself. You might also want to visit Dnepropetrovsk for space related stuff, I would bet there's some museum there dedicated to Soviet space programme.
>>30461759
>Dnepropetrovsk
Holy shit, how did I almost miss this city?
Looks like I will be taking a day to round up some /k/ related pictures.
>>30460481
This picture is great
>>30458720
>Why the fuck hasn't NATO
Ukraine isn't in NATO, and most NATO countries don't give a fuck anymore
>>30461116
>"sergi stop touching my barrel!"
> "No Ivan." " i will touch!"
>>30461149
>Does your neighbor tell you what clubs you can join?
shut up stupid. I dont care about russia or the ukraine. What bothers me is one country telling another what they can and cant do.
>And the ME doesnt count. They're barely human anyway.
>>30460943
>>Officially no. Practically yes
>It is, both officially and practically.
No, Crimea is not officially (i.e. recognized by the UN) Russian clay but as it's full of Russians and Ukraine can't do shit about it, Crimea is de facto Russian clay.
I'm pro-Ukraine but Crimea was never Ukrainian. It was Mongol / Ottoman clay before the Imperial Russia took over and after WWII, Stalin "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine but even then, the population remained mostly Russian right up to today.
Ukraine fucked up by not securing Crimea before telling Russia to fuck off, at which point they could have "traded" Crimea to Russia to get them off their backs.
Shit happens...
>>30458720
Annexation of Crimea by RF. Using unstable political situation in UA, RF invaded Cremea and annexed it. No, it's not historical Russian territory. If anything, it's historically Turkish territory.
> Russia claimed Crimea was rightful Russian clay
No
> So is Crimea part of Russia now?
Yes
>>30461529
fake
>>30460778
I like how in all the pictures they are using equipment the US was using over a decade ago.
I didn't realize Russians were a whole generation behind in weapon and equipment and shit.
Literally all of the are using iron sights, have no earpro, no rail system, old fashion webbing
It's a pipedream, I know, but I wish the US would go to war with Russia. I would love to fight in it and I would love to see the results.
>>30462944
You should know also that that's kinda elite force - "Russian special operations forces". You can imagine regular army.
>>30462981
They don't even look like they are wearing ANY sort of body armor or plates at all haha
Just cold weather gear and webbing
>>30462944
>>30463008
The russians have a mixture of different equipments. The ones that have it worse would be the ones in the far eastern districts.
You are also looking at pictures that are two years ago.
>>30462828
UN is not some kind of a supreme planetary court. There has been an official process of declaring independence from Ukraine and subsequent accession to Russia.
>Ukraine fucked up by not securing Crimea before telling Russia to fuck off
Crimea wanted and tried to declare its independence from Ukraine ever since the fall of the USSR but these attempts were suppressed by Kiev.
>Stalin "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine
Please, abstain yourself from further posting.
>>30462908
Indeed, must have been made by RT in the basement of Mosfilm. Together with this.
>>30462887
>If anything, it's historically Turkish territory.
Sarmathian. Oh wait, Goth. Oh wait, Greek. Oh wait, fuck off.
>>30463008
You do realise it is clearly visible that they ARE wearing vests, right?
>>30462981
>You can imagine regular army.
The regular army is conscript by less than a half by now.
>>30459011
And now the Tartars who live there get persecuted.
>>30463324
Punishment for siding with the NAZIS
>>30463324
>And now Tatar business clans that were in close corruption ties with Kiev get prosecuted
Ftfy.
>>30460249
I've always loved the eye cup of Russian scopes.
>>30463167
Not the doggo.
Russia invaded ukraine
NATO too weak to BTFO russians
In donbass a masterful deception was used with regular russian army troops pretending to be "insurgents"
>>30463395
Is this some game reference?
>>30460003
There are ways around it.
Not that success is likely, but I don't think they tried. There was a symbolic action taken, but they all knew it was symbolic from the start, and some even said so.
>>30463353
Exactly how many Nazis are in the Ukraine government?
>>30463412
No... the dog isn't wearing a vest.
Just being glib, yo.
>>30462944
i'd like that too
>>30459011
>US/NATO doesn't want to get involved
>US/NATO doesn't want another war
laughinggirls.png
laughingknights.png
laughtingcruise.jpg
>>30463512
i would take captain America over that any day.
>>30459011
800 rubles have been deposited into your account
>>30460765
>Unmarked and unidentified soldiers, isn't this illegal?
>I mean, can anyone prove beyond the shadow of a doubt what these people are?
vatnik pls
>>30459057
No. Crimea split through political dissention. Ukraine tried to militarily claim it back and Russia deployed arms and tools to the dissenters. Basically it was a political rebellion being backed by NATO on one side and Russia on the other and both are using it as a resource dump for cold war era equipment.
Britain even got lambasted for sending shit like Saxons over because they aren't war worthy since they were effectively just anti-IRA tools but Ukraine is/was taking anything they could get while Russia has so much left over USSR stock they could fuel the conflict for decades just by refurbishing and deploying old T-54s - T-72s. Especially since thats all Ukraine has of note, regardless of any upgrades they might have made.
It's just a modern Vietnam basically except in the Ukraine and no actual ground force deployment from outside the nation.
Putin will win it though unless the US puts it's foot in but it doesn't want a war with Russia so it won't bother.
You know whats funny?
Several ukranian media said that crimeans are terrorised in the referendum to join Russia.
But thats not true.
We had fucking PARADES, everybody was waving flags around, every senior citizen had russia colored ribbons, it was fucking amazing.
The best part? There are no tourists. The beaches are so clean.
Love it.
>>30460765
>Unmarked and unidentified soldiers, isn't this illegal?
>I mean, can anyone prove beyond the shadow of a doubt what these people are? Even if they could, the Russians would disavow them and then the accusers are back at square one without having evidence of direct orders from the Russian government. It's not like the US and every other developed nation doesn't send in unmarked soldiers and offer a bunch of military supplies to developing countries in order to run proxy wars in their favor.
Russia could maybe have played dumb on it but there is one problem with that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17#Crash
You can't give your shadow soldiers equipment that needs that kind of training and blame it on the mom and pop shop down the street having so much love for Russia that they managed to willpower that missile into a commercial airliner.
>>30461186
Is that D-20 howitzer?
>>30464154
Shitty appeal.
>>30459276
This is the best summary desu.
>>30460182
>Russian
REMOVE THIS
>>30459308
Khrushchev had sympathies for his homeland.
>>30460675
>let us in comrade ukraine or we kick down door
>read sign cyka
