Ayyrabs can't shoot
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Why are sandpeople so bad at shooting?
>VBIED driving in the desert towards syrian army unit with a tank and several technicals
>tank and technicals fire on the large target approaching them head on
>somehow they fail to stop it with A FUCKING TANK
>ALLAHU AKBAR!!!
>they die
Maybe it was Allah's will?
https://youtu.be/faPdTOvZmJI
skip to 3:30 if u like
Obviously Afghans aren't Arabs, but I saved this comment a while ago from a veteran (it's not me so don't bother asking questions):
>Afghan vet here (Although I think this looks like Iraq) I truly wish that after my time in that country that I understood them enough to explain. Their culture, society, everything about this place is so backwards that there truly is no comparison to the Western world. And I don't mean backwards as in we're right and they're wrong. I mean polar opposite. I've seen soldiers shoot eachother because one raped the other and had to get his honor back. I've seen a soldier rip IED after IED out of the ground without anything happening to him, but then another soldier does the same thing and is blown to smithereens. I've been an embedded trainer with them and time after time we teach them how to aim and fire their rifles and mortars. EVERY. FUCKING. TIME. they ignore what they're taught. And this isn't they are so overwhelmed by the combat that they can't function. This is them declaring that aiming does nothing, Allah will guide the bullets. Mortars don't kill people it is to be fired in their direction to scare them off and if Allah wills it they will die. I've seen an Afghan soldier fall off the back of a truck wearing a backpack full of rockets that explodes and kills everyone. Life is cheap to them in this part of the world. I don't know if it's apathy from decades of war, religious zeal, or if they are so uneducated that they are just really really dumb. I have had my mind blown by such dumb shit so much that this video doesn't even register to me as anything but just another Tuesday.
>>30349569
>This is them declaring that aiming does nothing, Allah will guide the bullets.
this especially
God damn, they didn't even try to use the main gun on the tank. I get that the VBIED was probably armored and shrugging off the small arms, but the 100mm or 125mm gun on the tank is kind of designed to deal with armored targets.
I thought it was bad enough watching the SAA lose tanks by leaving them parked or in alleyways for ATGMs, but this is even stupider.
>>30349569
Nihilism is popular in the ME. Allah will do everything. Honor is important- to win a contest is to b too proud (and not acknowledge that allah willed it) and would also dishonor everyone else (the losers). So why bother trying at all? Why bother trying to improve, when allah will make you win anyway?
>>30349569
I know afghans are retarded, what do you expect from a country where nobody went to school? I would think that Syrians would be a bit smarter than those goatfuckers
>>30349530
Someone post that webm of the Syrian tank commander blind firing in every direction from the hatch
>>30349721
Made me think of capt. America from generation kill
>>30349569
As someone who learned Pashto, Afghans are retarded and I haven't had one intelligent conversation in that language my entire deployment. They're just seriously stupid.
>>30349569
Went back to the thread, this one is also interesting (not me):
>same, we did a 3 day clearing mission in a little village called Najit (spelling?) in Southern Afghanistan in 2012 and we lost 2-3 afghan soldiers and 5-6 afghan police because they would keep steeping on IEDs......like IEDs we already found and marked. on the last day of the mission the terp signaled to me that a Afghan soldier wanted to break off the clear path to go piss, we handed him a minehound so he could clear a path to go piss, he slings it over his shoulder and marches off into the brush and steps on a massive IED killing him instantly and more importantly destroying one of our $30,000+ duel band mine detectors. I literally could write pages of similar events
>>30349721
It's the driver and it's in the Webm thread: >>30345304
>>30349821
not me:
>Part of my job was training the Iraqi Army in communication procedures. These guys literally believed the radios were magic. They had zero understanding of even the most basic scientific principles.
One time, I'm standing there with this Iraqi major and a truck rolls by with soldiers in the back. The engine sounds terrible and was literally smoking. I say "you gotta fix that truck, it's obviously broken." Dumbfounded he says something along the lines of "it's not broken... Look, it's still driving, it's fine."
That's when I realized everything we were doing over there was completely pointless. The whole experience was demoralizing.
>>30349833
fucked up the greentext on that one, but here's another one (notme):
>I think I've posted this before, but I can't remember. My platoon was in the city of Hawijah at the police station on the night Saddam was hung. We were on full alert, full battle-rattle just waiting for an attack in retaliation. Fortunately nothing happened, but that night I had a guard shift in the turret of the Humvee guarding the front gate. It was a full moon that night and I noticed that every Iraqi police officer was staring at the moon as they walked by me. I was wondering what the fuck they were doing so I looked up too. It was the same fucking moon I've seen my whole life. A little while later, the sergeant on radio guard came over the comms and said the Iraqis think they can see Saddam's face on the moon. Apparently someone Photoshopped (or whatever it was at the time) his face superimposed on the moon. They were sending the picture to each other on their shitty flip phones and those retards believed it. Also they believed our Oakleys were x-ray glasses as if we ordered them out of the back of a comic book. Oh yeah, once on a mission in Bayji during my second deployment, I was doing a stupid little magic trick I know to entertain some kids. They went and got some of the adults, who I repeated the trick for multiple times. (It's an easy trick to figure out if you see it more than once. They never figured it out.) They started to demand that I produce money out of thin air. Then they started getting angry and the interpreter said they thought I was a warlock. My PL told me to switch out with one of the drivers just to get me out of there. I'm convinced that the majority of them are just stupid.
>>30349655
Maybe the autoloader in the tank failed but i doubt it, who knows.
Now that I watched it again I saw that the technical wasn't even firing on the truck, it was all just small arms. Fucking dumbasses deserved what they got desu
>>30349530
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7muf1jlSxs
This video is a good example of how most of the combat in the middle east between these untrained forces is just running down streets and blindly magdumping.
>>30349912
>1:06
wtf
>>30349530
Suppressive fire is far more important than aiming. Fire superiority cannot be achived with aimed fire, but with massed.
T-Iraqi
I don't want to say that all arabs are hopelessly retarded because some of them can build rockets and mortars which requires an understanding of physics but I think most are.
>>30349993
Within their armed forces is an incredible gap between regular units and the Republican Guard. This applies to Syria, Iraq, and I'm sure others. I understand the cultural "Don't exceed your superior's skills", but it's ridiculous when you see tons of men getting killed and vehicles knocked out, and the ones that have basic skills are considered "elite".
>>30349530
Can someone tell me how these groups continue to receive ammunition? They go through hundreds of dollars of ammo in minutes. Also, who is the top dog supplier?
>>30350121
in Afghanistan. Khyber Pass still manufactures ammo.
otherwise its' shipments left over from the soviets. or western arms trafficking
>>30349856
>>30349833
>>30349821
>>30349569
MOAR please, this shit is hilarious and depressing
In other syria news the SAA lost their first T-90 in Aleppo area.
Reports say that it broke down so the crew they some grenades in and abandoned it. The militants captured it and probably got it running by jump start and drove it home. Unless they can find a way to sneak it into turkey I doubt it's getting fixed. I'm looking for the video rn.
>>30350070
lol
Was Islam that much of a cultural nuke?
I for one have fond memories from Arabian mythos and Persian legends. All of that shit right into the toilet when I learned of modern shitskins.
>>30350175
found it
https://youtu.be/OI6Vv7hzGOo
relevant part is at 10:30
>>30350175
Goddamn, as much as the middle east sucks its gotta be cool to just have all this shit we discuss every day here just lying around for cheap or waiting to be found.
>>30349944
The way I see it, not only have these guys received little training what so ever, but they also haven't been exposed to any visual media of what proper fighting looks like.
Raise a kid on a healthy diet of war movies and news on active war zones like it is done in first world country and they'll have a general idea of what safe and effective combat looks like.
>>30350170
That was all, unfortunately.
I'm probably gonna start collecting these since this really shows some insight, but it also makes you wonder if you should really even bother to fix the area. It's always "Insallah"
i do have this, though:
>It's very much religion. I've gone over training materials, describing exactly what you said about aiming and Allah. They'll try to shoot and hit the target, and if they don't, they throw the weapon on the ground and say, "Allah has cursed my weapon!"
>The book went on to explain that training, taking charge, even taking personal responsibility for one's own actions, are viewed as prideful, and sinful. Allah determines everything in their lives, and they are just pawns to his will.
>i read an interesting commentary on how (historically..) arab culture does not admit failure to be "their fault" .. so if a truck fails from zero maintenance it is "fragile design" problem, not lack of maintenance, or if you can't shoot for shit then "allah cursed your weapon" etc...
>>30349655
>implying they still have shells for the tank's main gun
>>30349856
>>30349833
>>30349821
>>30349569
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Their philosophy of diamond hard determinism has completely destroyed anything resembling progress or innovation or even just the basic fucking maintenance of a civil society.
This kids, is why we have the concept of free will. Even if strict determinism is true, belief in it results in learned helplessness on the societal level.
>>30349530
was fully expecting the helicopter to be a suicide helicopter when it showed up
>>30350195
>Was Islam that much of a cultural nuke?
Mongols too. They raped the shit out of the Mideast, and destroyed what culture did happen to survive into the Islamic age.
>>30350780
>determinism
you're an idiot
it's simple religious zealotry for dumb uneducated dune coons. Why do you think so many of their kids drop it when they start going to parties?
>>30349856
This is what happens when you don't get enough nutrients to develop a healthy brain.
You get physical limits on intelligence somewhere around room temperature IQ.
>>30351026
>This is what happens when you don't get enough nutrients to develop a healthy brain.
Bullshit, the average arab kid doesn't eat any worse than than the average 'murrican kid, probably better food desu. Incest is the problem.
>>30349530
Doesn't look like anything other than maybe the technical got fucked if the reporter is fine.
>>30349833
Explains ISIS
>>30350780
Whoa, is that a snap to target, auto-aimesqe system? Name?
The rows of EFP were cool, reduces explosives use.
Regarding OP's video, the VBIED rushed them while they were fighting other things.
Try actually paying attention to what was going on.
They can't even shoot good videos apparently
>>30350780
>>30351828
Aselsan SARP. Turkish made stabilized remote weapon station. Not 20mm it is 50cal M2. Yes It has auto target detection and tracking system.
>>30349530
>>30349821
>>30350780
>These complex and stupid explanations on "hurr culture."
Here's an easier explanation:
Because most of the fighters you're seeing over there there literally civilians who picked up guns. You can plink all the fuck you want and could shoot better than professional soldiers, but you have no proper training on the following.
>How to maneuver around the battlefield other than basic fire and maneuver
>Fire discipline.
And those are very fucking important.
Its not limited to Arabs. Look to Africans, hell, look to Ukraine for similar "retarded" bullshit. Blind firing, full autos 24/7, and getting into each others firing lanes.
>>30350993
>simple religious zealotry
Belief that Allah is wills everything into existence and coordinates everything fits into a philosophical concept we call "Determinism".
The idea behind Determinism is that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. For example: rather than "you" doing something, its your genes that provided your temperament, that fact that you were born in that society, parents/community that molded you, etc etc, that all combine into an action you take; you have no control over that, and thus if we expand that out to all of reality there really isn't free will (to a determinism, that is).
The same idea is the basis of Islam, only its Allah supposedly pulling the strings on everything, all the time. If everything is determined, again, then why do anything? Why innovate or "rock the boat" or even just simply aim down the sights; if the bullet is to hit you than it was always going to hit you, right?
>>30349569
>I've seen soldiers shoot eachother because one raped the other and had to get his honor back.
i'm pretty sure that's exactly what you're supposed to do in that situation... that or rape them back
>>30349530
https://www.rt.com/news/347348-syria-russian-soldier-killed/
You clearly see him at 3:28.
>>30349530
Ihave heard a few explantions floating around, though I can't endorse any particularly
1. most of their troops are irregulars who join and depart with little control, they are untrained, and uninterested in being trained; they do not see soldiering as a profession, simply a source of income
they will just take your money and waste your ammo and go home happy
2. many are "regional forces", who are unwilling to fight anyone who isn't on their doorstep, or who thay don't think they can simply scare off
3. they do not practice total war, their warfre has always been hedgmonic
they know they will always be fucked by someone win or loose
4. they fight gang warfare, where the aim is simply to scare and distrench other fighters
5.often touted are cultural differences relating to authority, nobody is allowed to shoot better than their commander, doing so is seen as an attempt to usurp them
6. general lack of discipline, trining comes from extenal sources, not from higher in the chain of command eg. marine tells us to keep the caps on RPG rounds, but our commanded doesn't so we won't
7. some peopel say religeos zelotry
>>30349856
>Oh yeah, once on a mission in Bayji during my second deployment, I was doing a stupid little magic trick I know to entertain some kids. They went and got some of the adults, who I repeated the trick for multiple times. (It's an easy trick to figure out if you see it more than once. They never figured it out.) They started to demand that I produce money out of thin air. Then they started getting angry and the interpreter said they thought I was a warlock.
Funny.
The same kind of shit happen in Africa with the french army. 2004, Ivory coast, some loyalist elements from an engineering regiment ("régiment de génie" in french) cross the DMZ to go north. They are intercepted by the french army and their weapons seized, as the UN mandate requests it.
Then the locals come around the near french FoB, asking to "see the genie"... Like a genie from a lamp or something.
The local rumor went from "the french capture the weapons of a genie regiment" to "the french capture a genie".
The locals even thought it was a panther-man who ate children, after the rumor spread around.
You can't make this shit up.
>>30349530
>Why are sandpeople so bad at shooting?
Because they're inbred fucking morons
>>30349569
>>30349821
>>30349856
>>30353219
>be me, doing PSD for some Dyncorp IED instructors
>standing outside building with bro
>5 afghans trying to start ATV
>afwani cannot into technology, start jumping on this shit
>ATV starts and takes the fuck off
>two guys standing in front run like the infidel machine is chasing them
>one breaks left, one breaks right into a drainage ditch
>infidel machine will not be denied for being jumped on
>ATV veers right into the ditch and smashes this poor fuck
>Harams are shouted
>The machine spirit will have blood
>ATV hits the wall, turns around and runs this guy over AGAIN
>A string of concerta wire calms the savage
>The four other guys are grabbing their injured fuckbuddy and two are arguing about what to do with him
>eyes rolled up, foaming at the mouth, and being yanked literally in two directions
>like kids fighting over a toy
>several other dung-punchers run up and one opens a bottle of water
>dosent pour it on him like a cooling tactic, closes this guys mouth and bottle feeds this guy water
>Myself and bro are too shocked to say anything or laugh
>after shift change run back and tell everyone in the BDOC and laugh for dayzzz
>ATV's wernt allowed to be driven on the JRAC after that
The sex ed class was an eye opener as well. It got comedy stupid at times. They are fucking retards.
>>30353420
I had a medic mate telling me that he was patching up an Afghani that ended up getting shot by his neighbour over some shit or another. Afghani confided in the medic he wasn't real sure if he was shooting blanks or his wife/sister/cousin was infertile.
>Medic sex ed 101
Oh, oops
Wrong hole all this time
Dunno if he was making that one up, but there's also a good chance it was true
>>30352470
holy shit I've been looking for this pic for ages, thanks braaahhh
>>30350922
for a brief moment I thought so too but then I though "what terrorist can fly a helicopter?"
>>30353499
The same ones who can fly commercial planes maybe.....
>>30353525
saudis?
>>30353525
Commercial aircraft... bit different to a helicopter!
>>30349993
For every doctor with a bright mind and future, there is at least one Abu Hajaar.
>>30353562
If you can learn to fly a plane, you can learn to fly a helicopter. It's a question of required intelligence, not which machine is harder to operate.
>>30353420
>The sex ed class was an eye opener as well
I need to hear more about this...
>>30353420
pls give sex ed stories
>>30353625
Eventually, but fixed wing is a much different skillset to flying helicopters. Heck I spent more time than I care to remember hanging around in choppers and military transports and you can't just hop into a heli after your 20hr of light aircraft training.
Very different machines and the animals that fly them
>>30352362
This makes my dick hard.
>>30353618
I would say there are at least ten Abu Hajaars for every bright ayyrab.
>>30353461
>but there's also a good chance it was true
I kinda doubt it but its a good joke nonetheless
>>30351956
Well don't you think they should prioritize the massive truckbomb driving towards them? The bomb is more likely to kill you than the dunecoons with AKs 300m away...
>>30353689
For you Anon. That's the best compliation video I could find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW7FWoFbFRM
>>30352469
This.
Heck, you see the way all our antis can be ignorant about guns? Imagine those people in a war with no training. You bet your ass they would fire without aiming, spray full auto and fumble around like retards, even the highly educated ones.
That's the majority of the civilian population in most coutries.
>>30349530
>Why are sandpeople so bad at shooting?
Typical orc behaviour, I guess. Games Workshop probably took inspiration from sandpeople when they designed their orc's fighting style.
>>30354074
Uhh no. I watched those documentaries where the reporter followed a platoon of American soldiers in Iraq. There's this scene where the American officer spent hours on radio asking for arty strike because his unit is pinned down in a fort by plinking goat herders. Despite having high tech equipment, he couldn't get a bead on the plinker.
>>30353750
>I kinda doubt it but its a good joke nonetheless
Heck, if anything else it was a good enough laugh when I'm face down and getting grenade splinters taken out of the back of my thighs and bum, so you need something to talk about to pass the time.
Grenades are practically made for middle east armies, they can't hit shit 99% of the time, but enough shit gets thrown around, blowing up- they'll get lucky eventually. Just wish it wasn't me, swear I was a damn grenade magnet
>>30354368
If you are referencing the video I think you are the Arabs they were fighting were ex-Mujahideen/old guard Taliban.
They were well trained to repel the soviets by us and put it to good use decades later. However most of that experience wasn't passed on and outside of a few hairy engagements in the early stages it is now mostly just Abu Hajaars running around snackbarring.
>>30349833
>yfw the truck represents the middle east, and you represent our involvement.
>>30350352
Speaking as a POG, war movies and such didn't give me any sort of prep for drills on how to move under fire or maneuver in a tactical environment. It's the kind of thing that you really do not get without training. Hell, even basic marksmanship is difficult for some.
>>30353461
I've heard a similar story, raghead banging his wife in the ass and beating her when she doesn't get pregnant. With their preference for men i can understand the confusion.
>>30349721
He was an Islamist, not SAA.
>>30350175
It is running but the optics look damaged.
>>30354642
>Domestic violence
Its something you never really get used to someone tooling the fucking shit out of a woman and in Afghan, wife beating is practically a national sport.
Not sort of a bit of a smack or anything, but a full on shit kicking, lots of screaming and shit getting chucked around
>hurr you invadery bastards forcing your western memes on some 3000 year old civilisation!
Yeah... they're a bunch of wife beating, dope smoking, boy-raping, donkey bothering, murderous cunts you wouldn't trust around unattended livestock- but they're on our side, mostly. You should see what the 'enemy' gets up too in his spare time!
>>30354779
Oh I've heard. I wanna get deployed over there, but I know I'll hate it if that ever happens.
>>30353358
jesus christ that's pathetic
>>30352469
civilians that picked up guns in a third world country with 80~ average IQ
It would also be a lie to claim that they have no training
>>30351956
Maybe they should move or stop firing when they have like 100 feet of fucking vision??
>>30349569
Fucking Pastun wali man.
>>30356463
Hurr look at me I can spew big words
>implying pashtunwali is linked to anything explained there
IQ lower than a fucking dunecoon
>>30355416
>It would also be a lie to claim that they have no training
Yeah, trained by other fucking civilians who picked up guns, passing on the incompetence
>>30352470
Allah can determine he willed them to be competent as well, these are modern ideas creeping into the religion. Furusiyya, itqan, etc used to mean something.
>>30349721
>>30350362
>>i read an interesting commentary on how (historically..) arab culture does not admit failure to be "their fault" .. so if a truck fails from zero maintenance it is "fragile design" problem, not lack of maintenance, or if you can't shoot for shit then "allah cursed your weapon" etc...
I'm suddenly grateful I don't have to provide tech support for idiots like that.
>>30353358
>Saudi Arabia and Pakistan
Get your shit together holy fuck.
>>30353763
>>30355416
>T-55
>operated by Arabs
>situational awareness
>>30349530
This entire Syrian "war" as it has been euphemistically is just one giant comical clusterfuck.
Their attitude to war is so casual and unprofessional.
Basically, you get together with a bunch of your Mudslime buddies from the neighborhood, you pack some rice and water and go shoot into the enemy neighborhood from your balcony, and when you get tired, you fuck off back to your home in time for tea and fucking your 10 year old nephew.
I wish we could unleashed a total war of annihilation on these motherfuckers.
Show them what Allah's will really looks like. Burn them out with napalm and nuclear blasts like we did we the fanatical Japs.
>>30349655
Shit, a burst from a PKM will disable even lightly armored vehicles, not to mention the DShKMs they are firing.
Not one of those retards could aim. I hope the Russians realize there is no hope for those dumb motherfuckers and pull out.
>>30353618
More like 1,000 to one anon.
>>30352469
The Ukraine conflict the militias looked and behaved miles better than anything I've seen in Syria.
On the rebel side you could see their transformation from a militia type force using a mix of captured and antiquated equipment to a well-oiled military machine capable of performing operational scale mechanized warfare with intrinsic artillery support.
Not even the so-called "elite" units in Syria have come close.
>>30353358
And this of course.
They look and act retarded because most of them are to a certain degree.
>>30349569
>Life is cheap.
Yup. That's the asian mindset. Not so much that life is cheap, but life can be traded for a goal, or things.
>>30361356
>On the rebel side you could see their transformation from a militia type force using a mix of captured and antiquated equipment to a well-oiled military machine capable of performing operational scale mechanized warfare with intrinsic artillery support.
That is a lot of words to say the Russian military moved in.
>>30361434
I followed the whole thing very closely, it clearly was not the Russian military.
You probably had GRU Spetsnaz spotting for the cross-border artillery but equipment support and indirect fire support near the border areas was as deep as it got.
No, you could see the skills and experience of the rebels growing, and towards the end they were fighting like a regular mechanized force.
It helped to have ex-Soviet strategic ammunition dumps located in their areas all over Ukraine.
>>30361480
And all those "former" Russian soldiers who decided they wanted to fight a decent war/
>>30349530
aftermath of this attack at 3:30
Once more, with feeling:
http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
>>30361480
It is hilarious to still see anons deny Russia's active involvement when active duty Russian soldiers were posting selfies from combat area's on social media.
>>30361513
>>30361356
It's not the best example, as in Ukraine's case it helped that most of the rebels were already Russian soldiers.
>>30361495
Dude, I I had this same shit arguments back in 2014.
No one denied that there was material assistance and some groups of volunteers fighting for both sides.
But the claim that the Russian military was engaged in a massive total war invasion (as the Ukrainian side claims) is just not credible and not even worth discussing. After a while even NATO leaders knew better than to pay attention to the Ukrainians as they howled and squealed about phantom Russian invasion forces for the most part of 2014.
Anyway, let's get back on topic here.. That thing is a done deal.
>>30361542
Amazing that 2 years later there is still no definitive evidence of an invasion.
You remember the Georgian war? That could be called a Russian invasion.
The invasion of East Prussia in 1945 could also be called a Russian invasion.
Also, another great example of a Russian invasion was the Soviet-Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia.
There's even photographic evidence of that invasion. And that was back when people had no selfie sticks to shove up their assholes. Amazing.
Pic related. Evidence of Russian invasion.
Now how many VDV divisions were spotted in Lvov or how many Russian armored regiments were garrisoned in Kiev? None? Oh?
>>30361694
The Russians even have proofs of themselves invading themselves, as during the 1991 coup attempt.
>>30360947
It's getting worse. Cousin marriage is rampant and outright encouraged. They're also bringing it to Europe where they start to skew the numbers.
Give it time and their IQ will drop even further, it's already incredible low.
>>30361206
The only groups that are actually trained are IRGC and Hezbollah desu.
>>30361752
I've had to work with people from Pakistan before. They're incredibly dumb even by the standards of south Asian outsourced tech plebes.
>>30361843
I'm living in Europe. I grew up with these people, arguably some of the "less bad" Turkish ones, they're terrible all around. The vast mayority of them fails at the lowest school forms to the point where 80-90% do not graduate a school form that is seen as "dead end" to begin with.
This might sound extreme but I know people with down syndrome and depending on how bad their down syndrome is they tend to be equal to them if not more intelligent and have a better understanding.
Worse, you can't explain them things. At all. Every single last one of them is extremly confident in himself, which once again is a sign of low IQ. They think they know better, no matter what. If it's about any kind of task, they think they can find a better way and by better they think about an easier and more simplistic way that involves less effort. Which is why prople refuse to hire them. Without constant supervision they'll slack off and start skipping steps in the work process or not do anything at all.
This is before a whole host of other issues, such as extreme aggression, them being easily aggravated (you can sic two of them onto each other solely by telling one he insulted the other, they'll fall for it and go after one another), lacking basic understanding of cause and effect and so on and on.
Hell if you told someone who never experienced this, they'd think you'd be exaggerating and making things up but these people are so utterly "broken" in many ways by what their culture and ideology has done to them over the last few thousand years, especially the inbreeding it encouraged it's mind blowing.
>>30361356
Yeah... because you are seeing actual Russian soldiers with training mix in with larger numbers.
>>30362064
Nice meme.
So where was the Russian air support to support the invasion?
>>30349721
>the Syrian tank commander blind firing in every direction from the hatch
He was Al-Nus IIRC. And there was a reason for what he was doing.
>>30360811
Watch the whole thing carefully. Near the end of the webm, there's a return flash. By exposing his position like that with muzzle flashes, he got the enemy to expose theirs.
>>30350195
Islamic Golden Age was pretty dope, but they seem to have forgotten that it was reason and rationality that gave them that and not Allah's magic.
>>30362259
>Islamic Golden Age was pretty dope
Medieval historyfag here: No it wasn't. It was a myth. All those people did was steal shit from other cultures and relabel it, then puff themselves up in the media of the day to be about fifty times wiser and grander than they actually were. Nothing's changed.
Here. This'll get you started:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/140210/sec_id/140210
>>30362132
You mean the Grad fire across the border?
Openly doing airstrikes is a little harder to hide than driving your tanks through Ukraine with the unit markers crudely painted over.
Any soldiers lurking that want to share any other stories?
>>30361694
>Amazing that 2 years later there is still no definitive evidence of an invasion.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-russia-casualties-idUKKBN0GS20H20140828
If you just close your eyes and plug your ears, the inconvenient truth will go away.
>>30362259
The "Islamic Golden Age" was just a continuation of the Late Classical culture of the Eastern Mediterranean. It existed in spite of Islam, not because of it. Most of the scholars were Greeks and Syriacs that hadn't been exterminated yet.
How do Kurds fare against Ayyrabs? They have a bit more of a reputation for professionalism and skill don't they? Especially the Iraqi Peshmerga.
>>30349530
Arabs literally don't know what ironsights are for. Ask anyone who served in Iraq with their remade army.
>>30362291
Pretty much this, which is why they didn't want the dhimmis to convert in the first place. They did almost all of the heavy lifting but weren't given any recognition.
The Islamic golden age is also one of the likely reasons for the Christian dark ages. They were battering the middle sea coast lines and engaging in slave raids all the way up to Iceland. They completely shut down middle sea trade and depopulated much of the southern European coast forcing the people to flee inland.
>>30362362
Umayyads didn't exterminate people for being Christians anon, they just had to pay infidel tax. You can say whatever you want about Muslims being backwards today but back then the Christians were clearly the crazy religious fanatics by comparison. Also the Arabs did pretty okay for themselves, I for one am glad algebra exists. Also guitars, guitars are pretty great.
>>30362380
>The Islamic golden age is also one of the likely reasons for the Christian dark ages.
>They were battering the middle sea coast lines and engaging in slave raids all the way up to Iceland. They completely shut down middle sea trade and depopulated much of the southern European coast forcing the people to flee inland.
You forgot the Islamic conquest of Egypt, which cut off Europe from their biggest granary. IMO that's the biggest single factor in Christendom's relative weakness during the Dark Ages.
>>30362416
But the point I'm trying to make is I don't think that Islam is the problem, I mean look at Bosnians or Muslim Russians, they don't think radios are magic and don't think that aiming is pointless since Allah guides the bullets. It seems to have more to do with the general backwardness of the region.
>>30362410
>algebra
Mostly Indian(Hindu), also elaborated by Syriac(Christian) scholars
>but back then the Christians were clearly the crazy religious fanatics by comparison
That didn't happen until the early modern period.
>>30362410
Nice try. They conquered by the sword and were highly aggressive while doing so. They unlike the Christians didn't actually want people to convert because it allowed them to plunder those people for what they were worth. Slavery was a big thing to them, they weren't allowed to enslave fellow muslims but they were allowed to enslave infidels. They had to pay money to get their hands on a muslima, a non muslim girl was up for grabs.
The dhimmis had to endure a whole host of humiliating laws meant to keep them down, they had to endure seeing their wifes and daughters taken by the muslims while they themselves were expressively forbidden from going after a muslima, they were heavily taxed to fund the muslim expansion. The supposed tolerance of muslims was for the most part a complete and utter meme, they just had very good reasons to not outright exterminate all non muslim groups, which over time happened anyway.
They also didn't invent algebra, they merely played around with it for some time. It existed way before them and way after them. The only thing that could be attributed to them but might very well have come from a dhimmi was "zero" as a concept. Which given where it came from, is incredibly fitting.
>>30362496
>The only thing that could be attributed to them but might very well have come from a dhimmi was "zero" as a concept.
That's the Hindus again
>>30362442
What? The Region itself wasn't backward by any means. It encompasses things such as old Persian Empire, most of the Byzantine Empire, North Africa and a bunch of other places. It occupies much of the ancient world which for a long time was leading progress and advancement and hosted several high cultures.
Islam and arabic mentality which spreads with it are VERY MUCH the problem. What you aren't figuring in here is how long ago certain regions were conquered and how bad the inbreeding and other practices which come with it have gotten. The Middle East and North Africa didn't make this transformation in a few years either, it took hundreds of years to reach this point in some cases over a thousand.
Some of this developement was also cut short or at least put off for the time being through colonialism. Which simply prevented it from going down the same path as the Europeans moved in and broke up developing systems which would've ultimatively lead down this path and installed different types of governments. Many of which have by now broken down or are in the gradual process of doing so.
>>30362515
So not them again afterall? I read up on the Arabic numerals some time ago and back then they were effectively Indian numerals which merely passed through the Middle East because of it's position between India and the West and thus were dubbed Arabic numerals. But the addition of the concept of zero was still being attributed to muslims.
Kinda sad, I liked to think they invented such a fitting thing.
>>30362496
>They conquered by the sword and were highly aggressive while doing so.
Right, because Christians were so friendly and peaceful when the Romans declared all religions apart from Christianity illegal. Or you know, that whole conquest of most of the world thing that Europeans did, and the Atlantic slave trade.
>they just had very good reasons to not outright exterminate all non muslim groups, which over time happened anyway.
Sure Anon, that's why there are to this day large populations of Christians in Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt that have been there since the days of Rome.
Also the roots of Algebra were first developed by the Babylonians, so it was still the same people in the same region, just different religion.
>The dhimmis had to endure a whole host of humiliating laws meant to keep them down
Right, unlike in Christian countries where non Christians just suffered horrible pogroms, crusades, forced conversion, or mass execution and torture.
>>30362564
Blaming Islam for it is idiotic, he'll look at the Ottomans who were able to go toe to toe with the Europeans for hundreds of years, even colonizing some of them. I think that Afghanistan especially is just backwards because it was for the most part completely untamed. People there live in much the same way they did 1000 years ago.
>>30362645
>Right, because Christians were so friendly and peaceful when the Romans declared all religions apart from Christianity illegal.
That was Rome being Rome. They'd had a stick up their ass about everyone following the official religion for 600 years at that point.
>Or you know, that whole conquest of most of the world thing that Europeans did
Congratulations on skipping over the entire middle ages to the Age of Sail.
>>30362671
Your point was that Christians were somehow innocent of being brutal conquerors, which is clearly bullshit. Even during the Middle Ages Europeans clearly didn't have any problems killing each other. Empire building is indpendent of religion, it's just something people do in general when they have the opportunity.
>>30362645
>Right, because Christians were so friendly and peaceful when the Romans
Why do you keep mentioning irrelevant things? Looking at posts above, this is not a conversation about Christianity but Islam. Besides, Romans had previously persecuted Christians. Roman behaviour. Islam, on the other hand, has been aggressive since its inception.
>conquest of most of the world
See the caliphates.
>the Atlantic slave trade
See the Arab and Ottoman slave trades, and the current de facto (and sometimes de jure) slavery in Arab states.
>>30362291
>http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/140210/sec_id/140210
>>30362380
Absolutely this.
What has me miffed however, is who and when slipped in this meme of an Islamic Golden Age into the public consciousness?
Notice that even total plebs without any actual historical knowledge have some vague idea of an Islamic Golden Age?
This was a deliberate piece of social engineering committed at the highest level.
>>30362707
I'm not denying that Arabs and Muslims in general have conquered and enslaved, what I am saying is that that had literally nothing to do with Islam. The people who lived in the Middle East did plenty of conquering before Islam existed (Assyrians, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, etc), people outside of the Middle East did plenty of conquering. Conquest is something humans clearly have a natural disposition towards.
>>30362300
So what was the purpose of the invasion? To achieve some bizarre stalemate?
Why wouldn't they commit fully and run down Kiev under tank treads?
The story Obama's State Department tried to sell you don't make a lick of sense, boy.
>>30361542
What we're denying is a full-scale invasion and total all-out war.
>>30353358
Wait, US and Russia are the least inbred?
>>30362753
>So what was the purpose of the invasion? To achieve some bizarre stalemate?
Pretty much yeah. If they conquered all of Ukraine they'd be on Poland's border. Poland would declare an Article V and WWIII gets started.
>>30362353
>Reuters, a Pentagon asset, quoting fifth column, American-funded "activists" from within Russia.
Oh anon, that's adorable the mental gymnastics you have to resort to.
Here's a protip, I don't care either way but I love making you hurr durfers look like total drooling idiots.
>>30353618
But he did nothing wrong
>>30362753
>So what was the purpose of the invasion? To achieve some bizarre stalemate?
Yes actually, Russia was losing its grip on Ukraine, and the rebels alone would have been roflstomped. By forcing a stalemate the Russians have forced the Kiev government to negotiate, meaning that the Russians can still hold on to a fraction of their former influence rather than lose it all.
>Why wouldn't they commit fully and run down Kiev under tank treads?
Because that would be illegal as fuck, make Putin look like an obvious aggressor, destroy his credibility, completely isolate him, would cause NATO to go on high alert, and could result in WW3.
>>30362363
They're actually pretty good when you pair them with quality NATO air support.
>>30362698
Actually, you brought up Christians:
>but back then the Christians were clearly the crazy religious fanatics by comparison
Which by the way is nonsense. Do you, for example, think Muslims took Spain peacefully?
>>30362380
The Dark Ages are a misconception anyway. It's "dark" because of the switch to perishable media and the destruction of reams of information when libraries were sacked and burned. The art and architecture from the period tells a different story.
>>30362749
>and enslaved
Only the largest slave trade in recorded history, yeah.
>literally nothing to do with Islam
What Mohammed and the four Rightly Guided Caliphs authorized and encouraged has everything to do with Islam.
Islam is the reason Islam is perpetually at war either internally or with others. Sunnis can't abide the Western -- perhaps even Christian -- notion of splendid isolation.
>>30362753
>The story Obama's State Department tried to sell you don't make a lick of sense, boy.
I didn't know Russian social media and news were under control of the US State Department.
>>30362669
The Ottomans managed to push in through sheer numbers and took most of the Byzantine Empire alongside all it's riches. They then massively engaged in slave labour which helped them build their economy. The only reason they managed to go "toe to toe" was because they weren't facing an united adversary in "the Europeans" but many singular nations who often times weren't particularly friendly to one another.
The deeper Islam set in, the worse the effects got, the more affected they also were by these practices and the further behind they fell. Turks nowadays aren't much above most of the rest of the islamic world where IQ and inbreeding is concerned. Thus if anything, the Ottoman Empire is a point in favour of this being the fault of Islam. As there aren't many other things they have in common and Islam is a surprisingly simple yet complex amalgam of political system, judical code, behavioural norms and religion who all lead to this outcome.
>>30362729
Because the left is actively pushing it, especially in Europe? They're trying to get people to be "accepting" and with the mounting conflicts between native Europeans and "new Europeans" aswell as the stark contrast they need ways to polish up their image. By pushing the islamic golden age, they can blame the current situation in the Middle East on imperialism rather than on it being their own fault.
>>30362749
Either you are muslim yourself and you're trying to defend Islam here, or you're woefully ignorant on the topic.
Islam is centered around conquest and expansion, it has world domination as one of it's main goal. Much of their actions are driven by emulating Muhammed "the supreme warlord" . Slavery of all kinds, including wife taking and dhimmitude are integral part of Islamic Arabic culture. Which come alongside the belief system and are slowly but surely replacing whatever existed in their place before. Islam is extremly xenophobe and intolerant even compared to most other religions.
>>30362823
M8 all you're doing is pointing to Islamic conquest and claiming that it was entirely the result of some kind of religious fanaticism and not good old fashioned imperialism that had been a part of Middle Eastern history for millennia.
I could point to all the Christian conquests of the post Medieval era and say "lol look Christianity is so violent and backwards".
>Islam is the reason Islam is perpetually at war either internally or with others.
And you act like Christianity wasn't as much of a backwards clusterfuck. Protestant reformation anybody? Besides, the Middle East was perfectly fine under Ottoman rule, and parts of it are still perfectly fine, look at Jordan. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world and isn't in constant civil war.
The Middle East is currently a dogs breakfast created by all kinds of complicated issues, many of them relating to ethnic tensions (which also often fall along religious lines as with Houthis and Yemeni Arabs), the legacy of colonialism, etc.
>>30362780
Makes no sense whatsoever and I'm a Pollak who follows defense stuff pretty closely.
The only people interested or concerned about Russian forces in Ukraine would have been Obama, his State Department, Victoria Nuland and the plotters of the Ukrainian coup d'etat.
If you think that the only reason this mythical Russian invasion, fought with a shoe-string budget and no apparent air cover, or tactical ballistic strikes on airfields or C3 hubs/ammo depots, or bombing of infrastructure, or GRU Spetsnaz rear-echelon harassment, or VDV strategic airlift deep into enemy lines, or basically lacking practically any other signs of a major military offensive, stopped in some non-descript villages in Eastern Ukraine because there were concerned about Polish sensibilities.
Mate, you best STFU, this is not your area of expertise and you're advised to quietly sit in a corner and pay attention to people who may know a thing or two about this stuff.
Fail to do that and you risk wpierdol.
>>30362852
Are you actually denying that the US spends tens of millions of dollars on fifth columnist NGOs and "activist" groups in Russia?
Do you know anything, about anything?
>>30362870
>Islam is centered around conquest and expansion, it has world domination as one of it's main goal.
And Christianity is explicitly pacifist, yet that didn't stop crusaders form saying "God wills it" as they hacked and slashed their way across the Holy Land. When you look at the relationship between religion and politics, it becomes pretty fucking obvious that what the religion actually teaches has fuck all to do with how it's used for political purposes.
>>30352469
No, it's definitely because they're fucking retarded
>>30362886
Again you're changing the subject to Christianity. So if you'd like to talk about Christianity, talk about the number of aggressive holy wars there are at present.
>all the Christian conquests of the post Medieval era
Which are?
>ethnic tensions
I'm pretty sure Sunnis and Shiites just hate each other for their heresy. And I'm pretty sure both regard people who are additionally Sufi as being jinn-summoners, idol-makers and apostates. Additionally, there is often conflict between different schools of jurisprudence within the same sect, one vowing to wipe the other out.
Next you will tell me that Islam and homosexuals can coexist.
>>30362966
How much do you know about the Crusades, mate?
>>30362900
NATO was explicitly designed to keep Russia out of Europe. If a European NATO member declared an Article V and the US didn't immediately go after Russia the alliance would be over in hours.
>>30362804
>By forcing a stalemate the Russians have forced the Kiev government to negotiate, meaning that the Russians can still hold on to a fraction of their former influence rather than lose it all.
Yes, and they achieved this with materiel support and artillery spotters and intel.
What you chucklefucks fail or refuse to understand is that there is a legitimate grievance the Eastern inhabitants have with the way things were being conduced in Kiev post-coup. The bulk of the militia force, was and is to this day, home-grown.
>Because that would be illegal as fuck, make Putin look like an obvious aggressor, destroy his credibility, completely isolate him, would cause NATO to go on high alert, and could result in WW3.
So you acknowledge that Russia has no interest in a full scale invasion of the Ukraine?
So why was the Ukraine howling about full scale Russian invasions with their ridiculous claims being proudly re-broadcast for the Western pleb consumption by major Pentagon disinformation channels - like the BBC and NYT?
>>30363048
You do realize that to invoke an Article V, Poland would actually have to get invaded first, and everyone knows that is a laughable suggestion.
>>30363041
>Which are?
The conquest of the New World.
>I'm pretty sure Sunnis and Shiites just hate each other for their heresy
Right, and I'm sure the fact that Sunni-Shia divides often fall along ethnic lines have nothing to do with it. You see the same shit in Europe m8, look at the English and the Irish, where religion compounds ethnic tensions. Serbs and Croats is another example. This is the same shit but with Persians or Arabs, or specific Arab tribes like the Alewites.
>How much do you know about the Crusades, mate?
The details are irrelevant for the point I was trying to make. The point is that Christians used religion to justify violence, despite the fact that Christianity EXPLICITLY forbids violence of nearly any kind. My point here is that even if Islam mandates imperial conquest, that won't necessarily result in Muslims engaging in Imperial conquest. Expanding empires is just something people do, and it's something that has been happening in the Middle East literally since the beginning of civilization.
Here's the thing, whenever a non-Muslim group engages in imperialistic behaviour, you chalk it up to some other reason, but you look at the Ottomans or Umayyads and immediately say "they definitely did it because Allah told it to, and not because conquering things is something that literally everybody does".
And I keep bringing it back to Christanity because I'm comparing the two, and how just like Christianity's pacifist nature doesn't stop people from being violent, Islam's violent nature doesn't compel them to be violent. Religion and ideology are adapted to suit the time and place and immediate material interests of whoever happens to be in charge at the moment.
>>30363162
>the fact that Christianity EXPLICITYLYYLLYLY forbreads violence
Have you read the old testament?
>>30363203
Pretty sure standard practise is to go with the New Testament whenever they contradict each other. It's pretty hard to misconstrue "turn the other cheek, love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, those who live by the sword shall die by the sword" etc
>>30362966
>muh crusades
Either you're a lying mudslime or you lack ANY kind of basic knowledge on this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
This is NOT anyone abusing Islam or misinterpreting or not even doing it despite what the Quran commands them to do. It's what the Quran CALLS upon them to do, they're following it to the letter.
>>30363162
New World didn't happen because of religion but despite of it.
Also the Christianity = Islam comparison either makes you an apologist or misinformed. Islam isn't simply a religion nor is it open to interpretation the way most other religions are.
Islam is an entire political system, a set of behavioural norms, a very clear and defined agenda, a law code and everything else you need. it is also ETERNAL in the way that the Quran itself according to Islam was given to Mohammed by the Archangel Gabriel and is the unspoken word of Allah.
You don't get to cherry pick, you don't get to interpret, you don't get to change anything, you can't reform it nor are you allowed to ignore it. You have to follow it to the letter, at all times.
Which is exactly what Islam did for the longest time. As it rapidly expanded and muslims acted EXACTLY as they were called upon to do. It was only due to overextension that it started to slow down and fracture, losing a central authority.
>>30361480
There was a good report put out by an independent US observer.
Went into a lot of detail about his observations of russian involvment.
Basically they only actually got involved 3 times, when the rebels really needed help.
They went in, annihilated divisions of ukranians, and left it a matter of days.
Thats it for physical russian involvment
>>30363062
>being a NATO member means Russia won't attack you
Looks like it works as intended.
>>30363203
Christ abolished (or in his words, "fulfilled") OT law. Fun fact: Islam actually follows the OT where the Quran and Hadith offer no guidance.
>>30363162
>Right, and I'm sure the fact that Sunni-Shia divides often fall along ethnic lines have nothing to do with it.
Sunni Islamist groups around the world purge Shiite villages right now regardless of ethnicity.
>The conquest of the New World.
That is apart from religion, though. I was hoping for a holy war of conquest. A modern-era Christian jihad.
>The point is that Christians used religion to justify violence
Oh did they? Rather it was a case of "take the fight to the incoming conquerors, or be conquered yourself".
>Islam's violent nature doesn't compel them to be violent.
top kek
>>30363285
>Christ did takie-backsies doesn't count on that stuff
Yeah but both books are made up bullshit
>>30363266
Besides supplying large amounts of tanks, artillery, ammunition and volunteers.
Oh, and some Buk's. Those did a good job at keeping Ukraine's air force at bay but kind of backfired when they shot down MH17.
>>30362870
See how easy it is to take part victories and then chalk them up to pointless bullshit like an idiot who got mad over losing a game?
>sheer numbers
Because it's clearly incredibly easy to field massive armies, March them hundreds of miles, command them in the battlefield, and then win right? The logistics for fielding such massive armies must also be very simple doubly so for the ottoman military that was regulated. So clearly all those victories must be complete and utter bullshit because half the other team was afk having a gay orgy.
>>30363299
The Bible being works of fiction does not change the fact that Christians do not follow Old Testament law.
>>30363394
The fact the Christians do not follow Old Testament law doesn't necessarily have much to do with Christ's new teaching superseding the old. But ignore me I was interested in reading the argument you other guys were having.
>>30363263
You're literally missing my entire point. I'm saying that religion is basically irrelevant. What it says or teaches means literally nothing. Muslims can be peaceful, Christians can be violent, and vice versa. Both conquered and enslaved people, regardless of whether or not it was deemed acceptable by their religion.
If you aren't allowed to interpret your religion, and if everybody follows their holy books to the letter, then why aren't all Christians a bunch of pacifists holding their property in common and observing strict Jewish orthodoxy?
>>30363285
>That is apart from religion, though. I was hoping for a holy war of conquest. A modern-era Christian jihad.
I never said that the conquest of the New World was religious (even though the fact that natives were heathens was used to justify subjugating them), but I honesty don't think that Islamic expansion was religious either. Mohammed was an opportunistic and shrewed conqueror who moulded his religion to suit whatever his current interests were, Christian leaders have done the same thing. Try leading the Lusiads, where the Spanish are brotherly Christians fighting against the Islamic menace one minute and the next they are evil subhuman monsters the second they try to fuck with Portugal.
>Sunni Islamist groups around the world purge Shiite villages right now regardless of ethnicity.
Sure, and Catholic Irish killed Protestant Irish, but that doesn't mean the troubles was a religious conflict.
>Oh did they?
Did they use religion to justify their actions in the Crusades? Absolutely. They also used religion to justify the subjugation of native Americans, the Atlantic slave trade, and all kinds of things. That being said, I don't think that the crusades were a religous conflict per se, at least not the earlier ones.
Like I said earlier what a religion actually teaches is irrelevant, it, like any ideology will be used however the people in power find is most convenient for them.
>>30352470
Let me just creep In here and explain a few things.
See I'm a Turkish Muslim fellow right, I have some education on this whole everything is predetermined stuff that's going around and it's commonly misunderstood. Another thing that's good to keep in mind is that there are a lot of dumb folks out there. Dumb Muslims like to use their faith to bail out there mistakes just like other dumb folks use other things.
In Islam we believe that every action happens because Allah wills it to be so, this doesn't mean that there is no choice and everything is predetermined. A person has the power to intend to do something and act accordingly to carry out what ever he wantsm and if what he does is sufficient to ensure this intent of his is carried out it will happen, because Allah has created the universe in a design and perfect b order and he doesn't break this order except for miracles. So a person has free will and needs to act according to his intentions in the end though the final confirmation goes through Allah. This doesn't mean you can shoot to the left and expect for the enemy to the right to die, it means that you need to shoot to the right and aim for the enemy but to understand that if all the other conditions for that bullet to got it's target and if Allah wills it to happen it will happen. Nothing happens without his permission so if somethings go right be thankful to him for granting your success, and if they go wrong be patient and learn from a mistake you may have made and if no mistake was made understand that it's simply out of your hands and that's just the way she goes.
>>30363507
Sorry bout the block of text tho. This concept of fate and Destiny are commonly misunderstood. Even more so than the common Islamic populace which in the latest century has had an incredible decrease in education both secular and religious
>>30363456
>regardless of whether or not it was deemed acceptable by their religion
Now which group of people are more likely to be an eternally violent plague on humanity:
>those whose religion says YES YES DO THAT, LOVE DEATH AS THEY LOVE LIFE
>those whose religion says DON'T DO THAT
>>30363507
As with all the other jewish religions, this breaks down when kuffars enter the equation. Allah willed the creation of the kuffars.
>>30349569
Imagine a country where everyone who is literate or skilled left decades ago leaving the unwashed scum to fight like dogs over the scraps. Afghanistan.
>>30363591
Afghans over here are much the same. Afghans are shit, let's face it.
>>30363549
See that's the thing, this world is a test see, the reason why non believers are non believers isn't because he willed them too be a such, rather he willed them too be as such because that's what they chose. Allah didn't force us to believe or intend certain things, and his creation of our actions aren't tied 100% us. Our beliefs are ours and are actions happen if they are carried out in the proper way, doesn't mean it has to happen. But it definitely won't happen if it isn't carried out in the proper way
>>30361694
Nope, no photographs at all
>>30363869
But nothing happens without his permission. That includes disbelief.
>>30363203
>Muh old testament
See, this is why I don't argue with anti-Christians; they don't even know the religion they're trying to bash.
Old Testament Law was fulfilled by Christ's death, anon. Violence is forbidden in Christianity beyond self defense.
>>30364020
Who are you to tell the Pope of Rome he is wrong?
>>30364039
What are you on about?
>>30364083
I sucked the Pope's perfect cock, in Rome. Don't question me.
>>30349912
Brings a whole new meaning to "spray and pray"
>>30364039
>>30364083
In Judaism, you can argue with god
>>30354654
Nah, looks like the Shtora was knocked out by the grenades.
It's a system that fucks with infrared tracked ATGMs.
Just my 2 cents on this thread.
The Islamic golden age was indeed a real thing, so what if most of it was Persian or salvaged ancient world writings. Having that stuff is enough to count, just like typing 'FIRST' in a comments section doesn't matter. It wasn't the in invention of new things that made it a golden age (although they did invent some things themselves), it was the transference of those things, it was a silk road for architecture and ideas. And then cut down by the Mongol invasion of coarse.
>>30363943
You're not reading what i said, what bee permits is what people choose. Think of it like this allah knew all the choices that a person is going to make before they're even created, those choices that allah knows will are happen are what that person had chosen to do of his free will ( cause remember allah is beyond time) so when the time comes and those actions are supposed to take place he creates them.
So basically it happens with his permission, but that doesn't mean it's good will forced on people, allah has given us free will and free to believe what we want. Be it the truth or otherwise.
Is this still /k/? because it looks more like a /his/ thread now...
>>30365457
This so much. Its actually fascinating.
>>30362771
>no evidence
KGB get out.
>>30362496
>>30362515
I learned from a documentary, that Aztecs introduced 'zero' too.
>>30362184
>"The Tank driver is firing blindly with an AK! Let#s return fire and reveal our position!"
Arab infantry logic
>>30363310
Ottomans were at their time pretty good at warfare but stopped advancing technologically and socially around the early 18th-century. They banned the printing press from the public because they thought it would result in people preferring other literature over the Koran, thus the state had a tight control on printed material. The Ottomans also continued to practice an outdated decentralized bureaucratic system with a weak central government at the heart which resulted in constant rebellion in many European and Arab regions. Their Empire went through a long decline partially because of dogma which was part of defining both social and legal norms within society and thus could not be challenged without risking the ire from the more religious population and leaders.
>>30363456
>I'm saying that religion is basically irrelevant.
You're wrong because Islam is more a political doctrine, military strategy and etiquette guideline all rolled into one package sprinkled with hoaxes about divine influence.
>>30363922
Good job proving his point.
Outside Crimea, there were no obvious Russian regular units ever witnessed, like pic related.
But I'm sure you have definitive evidence of Facebook screencaps and other hard hitting evidence to prove a massive military invasion.
>>30364687
>The Islamic golden age was indeed a real thing
You got any evidence of this?
Why would the be backwards retards and illiterates in the 21st century?
What changed? Did the gene pool take a dive from all the Islamic inbreeding?
>>30365832
>Keyboard warrior logic
I think he probably knows armoured warfare better than you, bud
>>30365112
That's a convenient excuse to kill everyone who doesn't believe, then. "Everything is predetermined by Allah except your disbelief!"
>>30366287
>arab apologist
>>30363049
>The bulk of the militia force, was and is to this day, home-grown.
With some support of russian soldiers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zssIFN2mso
>>30349530
They believe allah will guide their bullets
>>30366348
nt
>>30366287
>implying that guy is even still alive at this point.
>>30349530
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOBtzjS_mvk
>>30349993
There are clever ones but not to many smart ones
>>30366280
Why wouldn't it have changed? Only a progressive/progressivism would think that history inherently is always and forever some forward marching business. Even if the dank ages are mythologicized only a fool could deny that progress in architecture and political stability and law and order took a nosedive compared to what it was during the Roman heyday. Things rise and fall and they do for a myriad of factors rather than just 1 cause - the Arabs went to shit for a lot of reasons and not just the mongols.
And as for the Arab golden age, I think it's rather petty and dogmatic to virulently deny even the slightest possible boon or virtue to your enemy. I'll go and cite some references in an hour or two, and it's not from Arab apologist stuff but early/middle 20th century Western authors who aren't PC types. And I'm no arab apologist today, fuck em they should go back to their own countries and be left to fester in their mess and I firmly recognize that Christianity is 100% the superior religion today to Islam (in pre-modern and more violent times I would have preferred to be a faith that condones my need for self defense rather, but when society is nice and neat and ordered better for it to be Christian than it to be Muslim).
But when you use your ideology to craft the narrative rather than use the facts to craft your narrative, you are not a historian or a scholar or taking an empirical analytical look at the subjec - you are simply an ideologue.
Not to mention the hypocrisy of "The Arabs just stole from everyone else" but then counting what the Greeks borrowed from the Egyptians or Mesopotamians or what the Romans borrowed from the Etruscans or the Greeks as bonafied Greek or Roman respectively. It's two faced to use one set of rules for one people and one set of rules for another.
>>30349877
Fuck, the smartest person in the video is the cameraman who starts running for it. Everyone else earned that ANFO.
>>30354000
God damn, that head shot at 1:25.
>>30366670
>Christianity 100% Superior
MY JESUS BONUS IS OVER +50
>>30366670
>in pre-modern and more violent times I would have preferred to be a faith that condones my need for self defense
Are you implying Christianity doesn't?
>>30366670
The mongols fucked the arabs just about as hard as the chinese and russians.
Not quite as hard, and your right it was not the entire reason for their downfall, but i feel like you are not giving it due justice...it was a massive fucking event.
>>30367254
I'm not a practicing Christian so my perspective comes from just someone living in Western Christendom, but I've had trouble accepting as gospel the words and rationales of later theologians like Augustine and such who came up with material like the just war doctrine, predestination and so forth. Especially predestination, I find it fucking disgusting and vile and it produces the kind of nihilistic apathy that this topic's examples of Muslims illustrates. Similarly, despite the boogeyman of Fundamentalism in Christianity or Islam I can find the theme of it really appealing and am left questioning why I should take as an authority later theologians who were not the son of God. It's a crass and simplistic and inaccurate way of boiling it down, but I can't help but ask "Is it Christianity or Augustinity or Paulinity?"
So I don't know of anything in Christ's actual message that speaks to the righteousness of defending yourself with violence. There's means of being forgiven for such violence, but it's actually condoned as a part of the human condition in Islam or Judaism whereas in Christianity the ideal is much higher.
I mean literally it's hilarious how in all the new testament there's 1 message you can take of Jesus advocating actual violence (I come bearing the sword) which you have to do mental gymnastics to contend he meant it literally. Otherwise it's what, Jesus going pepe the frog and REEEEEEEE MONEYLENDERS GIT OUT GET OUT GIT OUTTTTT. And then there's god knows how many references in the Quran and Hadiths where you have to do mental gymnastics to contend that Muhammad DIDN'T mean literal violence.
I'll post a few things in a post or two of prior references to the arabic golden age business.
>>30367272
You're definitely right that they had a paradigm shift level impact on the Muslims and Russians (I'm not familiar with their role in China). In Russia it catapulted back a more oligarchical or republican spirit of the various Rus states and paved the way for the despotism and byzantine dogmatism and conservatism of orthodoxy (they were orthodox beforehand but the real hardcore byzantine grade of it comes after the Mongols and the fall of the Eastern Roman empire).
I mean to contend that no one factor is at play and the Muslims had a few centuries of advanced practices and culture. It wasn't high heyday of science as Europe began to pull ahead and get its footing but they weren't dark-ages primitive after the Mongols came. It was more arrested development and a slow steady lethargic decay.
Anyway:
"Many of my co-religionists" wrote a ninth century bishop of Cordova, "Read verses and fairy tales of the Arabs, and study the works of Muhammadan philosophers and theologians, not in order to refute them, but to learn toe xpress themselves in the Arab language more correctly and more elegantly." \\ Who among them studies the gospels, and prophets and apostles? Alas! All the talented Christian young men know only the language and literature of the Arabs...if someone speaks of christian books, they contemptuously answer that they deserve no attention whatever!" - Alvari Cordubensio Opera ndicus Luminosus, ed. F.H Florax Espana Sagrada XI, 1753, p. 273, read in Peter Brown: The world of late antiquity
>>30367491
Shorter Cambridge Medieal history (copyright those halcyon days of political correctness and SJW apologists - 1952):
"In this abounding prosperity, centered round cultured Caliphs, learning, literature, art and civilization flourished in gorgeous profusion. Arabic gave them a splendid means of literary expression but the authors and artists much more often than not belonged to the once subject races - Persians, aramaeans, Copts, Spaniards. Christians and Jews even wrote the hteir works in Arabic. Much roman law found its way into Moslem legal treaties, and greek science and philosophy were adopted as the basis of Moslem culture. The work of translation was organized under the half-Persian Caliph Mamun. Greek works on philosophy, medicine, geometry, astronomy, engineering, music and the like were turned into Arabic, often indirectly through Syriac. Algebra, the so called Arabic numerals, and some astronomy and medicine came from India, and Moslem authors added to the store of knowledge. Arabic medicine culminated in the encyclopedia work of the famous Persian Avicenna. Two other Persians were celebrated astronomers: Omar Khayyam...Beruni..Moslem philosophy, founded on aristotle, developed from Kindi in the 9th century and tended in an aunorthodox direction. The thought, however, of Avicenna and the 12th century Spanish philosophers who culminate in Averroes belong almost asm uch as, if not more, to Western medieval development than to that of the Moslem east. And their influence was most profound in Christian Europe.
Although the dissolution of the Caliphate brought political weakness and turmoil to Moslem lands it will be seen from the foregoing summary that it doid not retard the growth and efflorescence of Moslem civilization...It was the appaling devastation perpertated by the Mongol conquerors in the 13th century that inflicted on the Moslem east a ruin from which it never recovered. (pg 243-244)
>>30367418
>but I've had trouble accepting as gospel the words and rationales of later theologians
I agree. I was just saying that there isn't anything in the Bible that says you can't protect yourself or your family. I think there's a passage that basically says self defense is okay, but I don't know it off the top of my head so I could be wrong.
I think I see what you're saying though on the whole though.
>>30367518
If one is going to play by the rules of "because authors and artists came from once subject races [if they are converts - anything by a Christian or a Jew like Mamones 100% count towards their respective faith] they don't count as achievements of the Islamic world" then you have to apply that rule elsewhere. If you start to divvy up 'credit' among the various nations under Islamic rule then you have to divvy up 'credit' among the nations of Europe. If anyone who seems to flirt with heresy is discounted in 'credit' like Avicenna or Averros (forget which), then anyone deemed heretical by the Church gets the same treatment. And such a rulebook reads like the propagandist narratives of Afrocentrics, Nordicists, Turanic Turkish nationals and the like who are obsessed with scorecards and claims to fame.
Refusing to recognize even the slightest possible virtue in one's enemy is as silly as "freedom cabbage" during WW1 and mistreatment of Dachshunds because they were German, or refusing to listen to any Russian composers during the Cold war. It's only now in our current clash of civilizations that the narrative of "there was never a golden age they were always lizard-eating bedouin savages" has taken hold. Even in the days of literally conquering and kicking the shit out of the Muslims in the 19th and 20th century could recognize a lost golden age while they stared in the face of pathetic, impotent and savage Muhammadeans. It didn't invalidate their imperial endeavors, nor did it dampen their ardor in beating the snot out of them.
Now where the other side is incorrect is depicting the golden age of Cordova as a bright and shinning 21st century Utopia. It wasn't, Christians and Jews were persecuted, the latter had pogroms and massacres. By the standards of the time it was a shining light but by the standards of today it was anything but.
>>30367568
Yeah that's the other thing, the constant struggle of how much you take from the OT vs the New T. OT and the rules are pretty much the same as the Muslims - holy war is sanctified and encouraged, it's not chivalrous crusading but bashing the heads of Canaanite babies on rocks and having slaves and behaving like any bronze and iron age half-sedentary nomad would in a savage world.
>>30367580
Also ancedotally I remembered the Nazi's yellow star originates from forced dress required of Jews by Muslims in Spain and elsewhere. And also for the 20th century the Jews in the Arab world were treated like fucking garbage before the creation of Israel, so that is a false excuse/apologism as well. Recommend "French Conquest of Morocco" by Douglass Porch (His foreign legion history is good too and is no apologist. Blasts in the latter the liberals whose mental gymnastics would make excuses for the excesses of the Algerian FLN and in the same breath denounce the excesses of the French.) to see how the Jews were treated in late 19th century Morocco.
Similarly it, and other references about, to completely dismiss the total fantasy of Islam being racially egalitarian. Up to the present day and the libyan civil war Maghrebis are not fans of Blacks by any measure. But like elsewhere in the colonies or South Africa it's a complicated relationship. Porch notes how in Morocco one saw blacks at the heights and the pits of the social order - because black harem concubines abounded (one Moroccan emir even hilariously describing how tight and juicy black cunt is to a German ambassador, and then telling said ambassador "btw I slipped you some spanish fly so your missus will have a fun time tonight :^)") and so could secure high offices for their sons - but they were also despised by the Arabs and Berbers alike who refused to serve in the infantry with them.
Oh hey are we sharing stories of Middle Eastern incompetence/stupidity?
Here's a fun one.
>Afghanistan, 2009
>Some local yokel gets picked up by a patrol and is found to be in possession of a shitload of cell phones wired up as detonators
>I get shanghaied into providing security while they interrogate this guy
>Yokel doesn't talk
>Intel officer leaves the room, comes back carrying a laser printer
>As in an entire office laser printer, cables and all
>Hooks it up to the wall, then to a laptop.
>Then he pulls a 3.5mm aux cable from his pocket and jams it into the printer's heat vent, then tapes the other end to the yokel's arm
>Intel officer explains that it is a lie detector machine and they will know if he's telling the truth or not
>Asks him again if he knows where the cell phones were going
>Yokel says no
>Intel officer clicks his mouse once and the printer spits out a page
>All that's on it is >:( in big bold 72 point font
>Intel guy shows this to the yokel and just shakes his head
>Yokel ends up giving us the location of an entire IED factory and like thirty personnel
>>30367648
And the complex situation exists elsewhere - "Arab" Sudanese (Who look black to anyone else) discriminating against those they deem to be "Black" Sudanese (not always religious - Darfur is Muslim but deemed black, South Sudan is black but Christian or pagan), the Tuareg are pretty discriminatory towards blacks too. Doesn't mean they are as racially divided as Dixie in 1950s however since you've got blacks fighting with AL-Qaeda or ISIS and Boko Haram aligning with ISIS.
If there's a tl;dr it is:
-Don't trust any one source as authority.
-Try and look at reasonably unbiased references. A general history or impartial analysis of Muslim history over books called "The golden age of the Islamic world" or "How Islam is real life mordor and Muhammad liked getting gangbanged by goats"
-Unless you're writing a book or essay to prove a thesis, follow facts and build your thesis rather than follow your thesis and build facts.
-If anything sounds too 20th/21st century for pre-modern times it most certainly is. Life wasn't always Game of Thrones but it wasn't Downtown Abbey. And reading about the rise and fall of nadir shah and I'll say if anything Game of Thrones is mild compared to how history can really be.
>>30367689
kek, this is amazing. Do you have more?
>>30367724
That's the plot of an episode of Homicide: Life on the Street.
>>30367784
>:(
>>30367724
I've seen no less than four ANA personnel get maimed and two killed by walking up to helicopters before the blades can finish spinning down.
Other than that, I don't have much, but I can share the stories of this Kuwaiti nurse I met, she had been about nineteen when the Iraqis invaded her country back in 91 and she had all sorts of fun tales to share
>Walking past one of Kuwait City's banks
>Two Iraqis are standing by the ATM
>Watch a Kuwaiti man extract money from machine
>"Holy shit, Ahkmed, see how rich these Kuwaitis are? Even their walls spit money!"
>Later, passing the same bank
>Different Iraqi soldier is standing there, with a cup under the money slot, waiting for it to dispense a drink
>Go shopping for food
>Iraqis are demanding the clerk give them the pile of tuna he had stockpiled behind the counter
>Specifically, the tuna-flavored canned cat food.
>Friend of hers leaves a case of dog food cans on his table, goes to work
>Comes home, door's kicked in, empty cans everywhere, toilet clogged with puke
>Numerous Iraqi soldiers turned up at the local hospitals to have their stomachs pumped because they had been eating skin cream that they thought was cream cheese in a tube
>>30367822
>>Numerous Iraqi soldiers turned up at the local hospitals to have their stomachs pumped because they had been eating skin cream that they thought was cream cheese in a tube
kek, this is fantastic
>>30367689
My god, we don't even have to torture the dumb ones
Looks like ATGM on position and operator is escaping away. Also looks like that there are several Russians including this guy.
I had a friend who served over there in afghanistan in 06-10 or so, he mentioned locals collecting those MRE packets we dropped. Just instead of eating them and not starving for awhile, the locals would just put them in massive piles and burn them. =(
>>30365765
They did, but their contributions are irrelevant to modern civilization.
this tread makes me depressed
Not for the stupid fucks getting blown up
but for the lefties letting all of them in so their stupidity can now manifest in Europe
>>30352469
>And those are very fucking important.
This has at least something to do with it. Everyone had a good giggle at that Abu Hajaar video but the bit where they're rolling away from the truck, and the guy with the camera gets down and starts doing it too - that spooked me. Because that's exactly what I'd expect an untrained militiaman to do when shit goes tits up - in the grip of fear, he emulates the only guy who seems to have a vague idea of how to escape alive.
Fear is what really does it. Even if they could hit the broad side of a barn from two hundred yards, when shit starts popping off, they just have no idea where to go and no confidence that their mates will have their back.
>>30353035
Points 1-5 all add up to "tribal mindset" to me.
>>30362771
Big countries with relatively few people.
>>30354412
>Grenades are practically made for middle east armies, they can't hit shit 99% of the time, but enough shit gets thrown around, blowing up- they'll get lucky eventually. Just wish it wasn't me, swear I was a damn grenade magnet
Fucking lol. European armies were the same way. Pershing's aide personally witnessed two Brits chasing a German, throwing grenades ahead of him in the hopes one would go off under him as he fled. They were that poor at shooting.
>>30350195
Not really, the schools just suck.
Also the iranians are kicking ass in Syria.
>>30361623
>even NATO leaders knew better than to pay attention to the Ukrainians as they howled and squealed about phantom Russian invasion forces for the most part of 2014.
ahem
https://news.usni.org/2016/02/26/document-2016-u-s-european-command-posture-statement
>While the U.S. and European nations have responded with diplomatic and economic sanctions, Russia continues its aggression in eastern Ukraine by providing personnel, equipment, training, and command and control to combined Russian-separatist forces.
The US military has pretty much openly called them out on it.
>>30362416
>Egypt, which cut off Europe from their biggest granary.
>Egypt
>granary
>egypt
>GRANARY
>Egypt
>more fertile than continental Europe
what
>>30366275
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31794523
>The Kremlin has denied its forces are directly involved in combat, but the latest estimate by US Lt Gen Ben Hodges, commander of the US Army in Europe, says 12,000 Russian troops are operating inside the neighbouring country.
http://thehigherlearning.com/2015/03/05/us-commander-around-12000-russian-soldiers-supporting-rebels-in-eastern-ukraine/
>Speaking in Berlin on Tuesday (3/3), U.S. Army Europe Commander Ben Hodges estimated that roughly 12,000 Russian troops are supporting pro-Russian separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.
>Hodges said that these forces were made up of military advisers, weapons operators and combat troops, and added that another 50,000 Russian troops are stationed on Ukraine’s eastern border – ready to cross over if the separatists should suffer a major setback in their ongoing conflict with the Ukrainian military.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-russia-casualties-idUKKBN0GS20H20140828
I guess you know more than US Army Intelligence, huh?
>>30368291
Can you faggots stop arguing and post more funny stories instead?
>>30368328
no, u
>>30367689
>All that's on it is >:( in big bold 72 point font
This is exactly what I needed right now
>>30353358
Son of 1st cousins here can confirm.
Imo the reason why they are so bad is because the training is like this
>hello do you know how to shoot rifle
>Yes
>Good, now hop on that truck that is going straight to the front lines.
Thats literally how it goes in the Kurdistan peshmarga and the shia militias.
Idk about syria though
>>30368251
what is the nile?
>>30368251
Nile area was granary of the Roman Empire.
Climates change, you know.
Read a book, nigger.
Can someone pls archive this thread?
I'm on mobile so I cant, this stuff is gold.
>>30367822
You can't clog toilet with vomit.
I'm calling burru-shitu.
>>30367689
to be fair this works on American criminals as well
>>30368784
>>30368840
>the Nile
>versus ALL OF MAINLAND EUROPE
can you fuckers
read a fucking map
holy shit
>>30369825
You don't know your history. The Nile was INCREDIBLY fertile. They shipped the grain from there across the empire. Italy started producing mainly cash crops. Arguably, this was one of the causes of Rome's downfall.
>>30349530
ak 47
>>30369864
>You don't know your history. The Nile was INCREDIBLY fertile.
Acre for acre, oh yes, all the silt from the Nile floods. But in terms of total acreage flooded... I'd rather think that Southern France could out-produce Egypt in pure grain output.
But, I'm not accounting for transport of the era. It's a relatively short sea journey across the Med from Egypt to Italy, whereas Italy/France requires passing through mountains, by land.
Which might explain it.
>>30367689
Looks like someone got around to watching their box set of The Wire.
>>30369922
Not only that, but you also have to account for actual tilled land. South France was not full of farm fields.
>>30350175
CIA needs to buy that and ship it home... for research purposes, of course.
>>30352469
Ukraine's militias were far better than the average Arab's.
>>30361542
Those are the "volunteers".
It was a proxy war. Most were Ukrainian rebels, guided by Russian officers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdbLqOXmJ04
>>30362645
What, you think the Europeans raided African villages for slaves?
They bought them at ports from traders, mostly muslims.
