How does /k/ feel about .22s for self defense?
>>30143923
>unreliable cartridge
>low energy
avoid, 22 is better than nothing but anything centerfire is better than 22
>>30143923
If you're getting a cheetah for any serious use, there's no reason to go for a rimfire. Just get one in .32 if .380 is too lively for you
>>30143923
the .22 short would be almost useless, and a .22LR would be less than useful
I guess I would take one over a knife, but it would be a toss up
you would have to shoot for the head to cause any serious injury, which in a self defense situation wouldn't help your odds getting a hit on target
with a larger round, aiming for center mass means a poorly placed shot could still at least hit a target in the shoulder/arm/gut
aiming for the head would mean a missed shot would have no effect at all
and as has been mentioned, 22's don't feed reliably
there are a multitude of small calibers for hold out guns/pocket pistols out there.
do your own research, I'm a nogunz; but I wouldn't recommend it and I havn't heard many people who would
It "could" work, but I don't see why you would. Going up to a .380 or a 9mm has basically no drawbacks for a lot of benefits.
>>30144273
>you would have to shoot for the head to cause any serious injury, which in a self defense situation wouldn't help your odds getting a hit on target
What is this fuddlore? A .22 to the torso definitely sucks and can be fatal. It's just not quite as effective as more standard pistol calibers.
>>30144289
in a self defence situation we are really talking about what is likely to happen in the majority of situations, and what kind of odds would you want to gamble on
if you shot someone twice in the head with a .22 short they would not be well, that is for sure
and a .22LR can be fatal
but people have ribs on their torso, sometimes they even wear thick clothing.
I can't imagine self defense scenarios taking place at 20+ feet, if someone was close to you I don't think a few .22's to the chest would stop them from hurting you
I'm sure there are some reliable statistics on this somewhere, I'l have dig
>>30143923
.22 is superior against humans. Aim for the head
>>30143923
If you put enough bullets into a person they will stop no matter what, hell one bullet is probably enough to make somebody fuck off, unless you pissed of the CIA and Seal Team 6 is coming to fuck your shit up, in which case you should probably consider using the gun on yourself.
>>30144359
>.22 can't pierce clothing or ribs
The fuddlore is real.
And the statistics actually show .22 as being pretty fucking effective, but there tends to be a bias towards smaller calibers. Both .22 and .25 ACP are rated as being very likely to one-shot-stop compared to common handgun calibers by the FBI statistics, but it's worth considering that most uses of those calibers probably happened at extremely close range (Think, some granny pulling her pursegun on a mugger) while 9mm and .45ACP would be used in active gunfights (think, cops dumping hundreds of rounds against a pumped-up methhead)
Overall, yeah a 9mm would work better in most situations, but a .22 is nothing to scoff at. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a knife if the other guy pulled a .22.
>>30144366
Aim for the throat let them choke on their own blood!
>>30143923
It could probably scare away a mugger the same as anything else. If you had to shoot to defend your life you will have to deal with the fact that they may have stabbed/shot you by the time they realize they have been hit. With so many good mouseguns out there I don't know why anyone would bother with .22.
>>30144385
I would be prepared to back down if I saw some real evidence, but there are a few things I might suggest
.22 LR is usually tested out of rifle, out of a pistol results might vary considerably because of muzzle velocity; which a smaller (in mass) round would really on that velocity to a greater degree
so a distinction must be made here I feel between the two
and a .22 to the heart will kill someone dead, as will most shots that penetrate the skull
but what about a glancing hit to the skull, ricochet off the ribs, or the lungs?
all definitely CAN still be lethal, but how reliable is that result?
I'm looking up stats now, but honestly I can't find much to back myself up and I've never shot someone myself
This thread
>>30143923
If there are better options, use something else. Otherwise, remember the first rule of a gun fight.
>>30144590
A person get shot by a .22 will stop even if the rounds are glancing off the skull or being lodge in the ribs. We're not fighting drugged up insurgents, just the dangerous ilk of society
If you're going with .22 use a revolver, such as a bearcat or NAA. This will eliminate the reliability issues with both feeding and bad primers.
About 90% of people won't get attacked, and 90% of people who do get attacked will end the fight merely by presenting a gun. So carrying a .22 is a smart balance of risk management.
Also, it's cheaper and easier to train with rimfire, which might actually make you more effective in a fight than if you buy big.
Also, in a home invasion .22 is easier on the ears, though the cylinder gap guns I recommended can actually be pretty loud.
>>30144590
The only fatality I know of personally that was caused by a .22LR pistol was an old man being beaten by one of his crackhead neighbors. The man pulled the gun out, eyes closed, and got one round off. Hit the guy right in the heart and dropped him instantly.
So if you can get the pistol about 6 inches away from a target and fire between their ribs you can really do some damage. The same is true for every knife I own, but I don't have to reload those.
>>30144590
It looses about 130fps coming out of a Walther P22 compared to a Ruger 10/22. It's considerable, but not enough to make the round bounce off of you or anything.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html
.22 kills the most people out of all rounds
>>30144686
Knives also have less reach than bats.
A .22 has as much reach as a 9mm and uses a power source that works even when you're bloodied and weakened. All you have to do with a gun is orient it correctly and push a button. You actually have to drive a knife into the other guy, which is tough to do if he's a better fighter than you.
>>30144700
Are we doing the liberal "lets count all gun deaths even suicides" thing now?
>>30144710
I seriously doubt many suicides involve .22. Most people don't like living as a vegetable.
I know if I was going to end it with a gun I'd go 12 gauge or .308.
hey /k
im pretty new here and also pretty green when it comes to guns. nut talking of about the .22 cartridge and its effect/ power i came to think of what my officer told me in the army.
and so i wanted to ask you what you think of this.
"a .22 rifle round when fired has so little mass that it will after escaping the barrel it will turn and spin, and hit the target on its side causing a larger wound than a 308. it will even bounce of bones within the body and ricochet arround within the targets body. causing way mare damage than a heaveir projectile firing straight through"
what do you think of this? is it BS or what?
>>30143923
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM4h4TsEDqE
Mossad 4 lyf
>>30144728
>ut talking of a
lol dunno what happened here. pretty green on the whole typing and english thing too.
>>30144721
[fuddlore intensifies]
It's not an airsoft gun. If you put a .22 into your mouth, it will work. People kill themselves with .22's because that's what they have the easiest time getting their hands on.
>>30143923
>How does /k/ feel about .22s for self defense?
Not great, but its liable to kill or injure people better than harsh language and jokes about their mum.
About the only real advantages are you can get a fairly high capacity in most of them and nil recoil which is good for shot placement. Plus no ones really going to want to take a pause and figure out if they're being shot at by 'just .22' or something else. I bought a 226 Classic for my missus when I was teaching her to shoot and its a nifty little gun, likes a higher pressure/velocity ammo through it but overall its a great teaching aid for people new to guns and shooting.
For a few hundred more you can also convert them over to another calibre
>>30143923
If it was reliable, then I wouldn't see a problem but it wouldn't be optimal. A head shot or neck shot with a .22LR will still fuck you up. The zero recoil would be pretty sweet.
>>30144728
also not op. names lasts from different threads on other boards it seems
>>30144728
It's bullshit. .22 doesn't immediately keyhole if you shoot it out of a good gun. They couldn't very well use it for competition shooting if it did, could they?
You can get .32s and .380s that're smaller and/or higher quality than any .22. I fail to see why anyone would use a .22 for self defense.
>>30144657
>A person get shot by a .22 will stop even if the rounds are glancing off the skull or being lodge in the ribs.
I'm not really sure, how would we know?
>>30144686
clearly the .22LR beats some muskets, and lord knows they killed enough guys
the issue is whether or not at close range they can stop a guy with shots to the chest which don't hit the heart
>>30144680
great suggestions
.22 is loud as hell though, and I'm not sure I'd use a .22 to threaten someone
since one shot might not be enough, you might not have the liberty to try scaring someone off
that being said I wouldn't want to just start blasting away like a fool in the real world
>>30144692
the loss is considerably less than larger rounds, but how many handicaps can the .22 overcome?
lower fps velocity, several layers of clothing, a less than perfect shot, a target more than twenty feet away
>>30144700
no need to interject with that kind of rubish, /k/ knows how statistics work
car that kills the most people is probably the most common on the market
then the car that the most idiots drive
larger caliber guns seem to have a greater proportion of one shot kills because experienced shooters are more likely to use them and shot placement is often better for that reason
any gun used in an execution or suicide style event can be lethal in one shot
statistics are usefull, but only when tsken in strict scientific context
>>30144728
total BS I think
the only bullet that tumbles is a mis-shapen one, nobody wants a bullet to tumble because it's incredibly inacurate and it looses speed in air, and penetrates less
bullet damage is very complicated
for instance any bullet can "over-penetrate", meaning it goes too far into a target, or actually passes right through
most bullets could do this, but the aim is not to put a hole in the target, the aim is to damage to the inside of the target
this is why we use hollow points, because they expand more inside a target
>>30144762
makes sense. if i dint express it in the first post im gonna just say it again . _im bloody clueless!
but do you know where this myth comes from? have you heard it before?
>>30143923
In my personal experience rimmed cartridges like that don't feed super well unless there are guns that have fixed that issue.
The rounds themselves seem less than reliable at going bang, likely due to low cost of manufacturing (ie., cutting corners to keep it 7 cents a round or whatever).
That said, low recoil + high capacity in a small package means you can lay down a LOT of fire in short order, and still have some left. In a good world the other person(s) would run just from the gun shots, but that isn't something you can rely on.
The caliber is smaller than what most people would recommend, but it's not like people haven't been killed by it before.
If you haven't tried .380, bersa makes a nice .380.
I can't say I've tried .32, but I've seen decent looking .32s.
If you are going camping a .22lr pistol may not be bad. Decent at fending off predators due to noise, low weight, and can get squirrels and stuff for food. For EDC I wouldn't unless I had no other option.
A revolver in .22 magnum is okay for self defense. I would only carry .22lr in the summer if it's all I had. Personally, I carry a G42 right now, and a Sig P320 9mm in the winter.
>>30144782
It may come from people shooting .22 out of barrels that are far too short, which does cause keyholing. It also causes shit velocity though, so it's not really something you want. There are a number of versions of the myth, including that it will "ricochet" inside the body because it hits bones, and that this made it the "bullet of choice" of the mafia.
I can only assume it comes from mis-interpreted statistics and people who think their "tactical" 10/22 is secretly the greatest tool of operational operating God has ever given man.
>>30144769
I recommend you look up some .22 ballistic tests. There's a ton on youtube. .22 consistently has no problem going through even heavy denim, and while it's often too slow to cause hydro-static shock, holes are generally bad for internal organs. A quarter inch hole in your stomach is a bad fucking day, as is one in your lung, or in any of the major arteries running down your back. Really anywhere in the digestive system is going to hurt a hell of a lot and cause massive bleeding.
Will it stop someone like Machel Platt? Well, no, obviously. He ate .9mm and .38 special like they were nerf darts, but he's not your typical assailant. For a normal human being, being hit anywhere in the torso is probably enough to make them think twice about what they're trying to do.
>>30144869
cheers pal!
>>30144869
well I'l have another look into it I suppose
what i have seen is that the .22 leaves a very narrow wound channel, imparts little energy to it's target (if you consider that of relevance)
but I would say this
we arn't comparing a .22 to throwing stones, everyone here agrees the .22 IS lethal
it's a round with modern power and dimensions
but compared to a 9mm browning?
or a 9mm parabellum?
no contest
>>30144728
The bouncing around in the body thing I'm pretty sure is a meme from two main sources.
1. Zombie survival guide
2. Some gangster film where the guy turns state witness and talks about how they used a .22 to the head behind the ear muffled with a pillow.
I don't know why people are comparing a .22lr to a knife for self defense, there is no way a knife compares. You don't have to wait till someone is on top of you trying to maim you with a projectile, a bullet is potentially going to do a lot more fatal damage if it hits, a 22 will hit deeper than a knife. people get stabbed and slashed up a lot it's just not effective at stopping someone.
It's loud, if you're in trouble people hear noise they might call the police, if you're defending yourself that's in your favor.
If the gun malfunctions you have a club for a pistol whip that'll hit harder than your fists.
>>30144769
You misunderstood me when I mentioned the sound.
I wasn't advocating shooting to scare someone. I was talking about ear damage to self.
In an auto .22 is nice and quiet.
The reliability of the .22 cartridge is the biggest issue. That cartridge either doesn't fire or doesn't feed.
>>30143923
Perfectly fine. It's more than twice the size of 9mm but still half he size of 45mm
Pick the right ammo. Some .22 will get past the FBI foot out of a handgun, others will fall woefully short: http://www.brassfetcher.com/Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Tests/22LR%2010%20Percent%20Ballistic%20Gelatin.html
>>30143923
id be ok with it if I could have a gun that holds a lot of them
nobodys laughing at any caliber when theres 15 of them being shot at you
>>30145108
wat
>>30143925
>unreliable
>low energy
the jeb bush of rounds
>>30143923
Only if it's in a revolver.
>>30145108
You might want to fix your calculator.
>>30146720
but the problem is .22's are notorious for feeding incorrectly, and the rate of duds is quiet high
>>30149541
>.22 CB Caps are the Jeb bush of rounds.
>Shit, they won't even clear longer barrels, they are so low energy they just stop.
>I tell you what, we are going to make rimfire great again.
>Were going to build a 10/22 and were going to get rid of those shitty sights.
>we're going to put a GREAT ziess 2-7x scope on it and we're going to bring back the .22LR
>were going to have the greatest .22LR, high velocity .22lr and more better copper plated .22lr
>MAKE RIMFIRE GREAT AGAIN
>>30150653
h..h..hollowpoints for everyone senpai?
>>30150669
Yes anon, we're even going to bring back the stingers, and reasonably priced CCI mini mags
>inb4 not .22lr
Everybody deserves the right to a great hollow point
>>30150694
>going to bring back the stingers
OH FUCK YES ITS THE SECOND COMING!
>I killed so much shit with those as a kid
>>30143923
.22LR
Make sure you got a lot of rounds in the mag and pray to god you can shoot ungodly fast.
>>30144359
Unless you are wearing 500 thick sheets of paper and 1 1/2" thick ductape on your chest, it would pierce and kill yah.
>>30143923
you'll literally never shoot anyone with it, a gun itself is enough to scare a dindu away
>>30143925
/thread
17hmr master race
>>30143923
It's a niche caliber. Does some things really well, some things really fucking poorly.
>PROS
>low rapport, fucking quiet especially with subsonic rounds and a suppressor, even a homemade one. In most self defense situations you actually want to be loud and you're not going to CC a suppressor... But in a SHTF type situation, this is a big advantage and something .22 does better than any other round
>low recoil, meaning better shot placement
>cheap, theoretically meaning good availability and more trigger time at the range
>CONS
>rimfire doesn't stack well in magazines, so even though you're shooting a small round you don't necessarily have any more rounds than you would with a centerfire cartridge
>feed issues
>it's a fucking .22, so don't expect much. It'll kill people, sure, even with body shots through layers of clothing. Hell, it can even kill bears if the stars are aligned and you said your prayers the night before. But the probability of doing so is much, much lower than were you to use a different round. Shot placement and # of rounds fired increases your odds, but factor this into your calculus. Depending on the situation, your goal isn't to kill the threat, it's to wound and disable so you can escape
>ammo shortages
Personally, I'm not into it. If you really need a low rapport firearm, a suppressed 10/22 will serve you much better, and the situations in which that is tactically useful generally mean rule of law has broken down so a zipgun would be a cheaper and more practical route.
9mm for people, .357 mag or better for bear. .22 is a survival cartridge, not meant to kill anything that is actually a threat to you. Small game and shit, not predators. It'll be useful in those situations, but that's not what it's for, and you should realize that.
>>30143923
better than nothing, but if you're passing up something bigger for some reason, you're a fool.
First rule of a gunfight is to bring a gun. If a .22 is what you have well...
>>30152386
>rapport
>>30152673
>retard
.22lr a self defence round.....no. a assassin gun yes
>sub sonic rounds (much quieter)
>cheap as chips to get one
>can throw away after crime
>easy to conceal
>no recoil
>in rifle form fairly accurate
>your 90yo grany can one handed pull out of her big ass purse a 10/22 auto and go postal with out breaking a nail
>>30152839
>mfw I own a take-down 10/22 with homemade folding slide-fire stock
>>30144686
Robert Kennedy was killed by a .22 caliber Iver-Johnson Cadet revolver.
>>30144759
>A head shot or neck shot with a .22LR will still fuck you up.
A hit *anywhere* with a .22 will fuck someone up. We're not fighting Vining, we're fighting Jamal. SGM Vining could shrug off a .22, barring a wound to the brain or heart. Tyrone is going to hear the pop, and run. If he actually takes a hit, he's going to scream and cry like a bitch while running.
>>30143923
they are the best because the .22 bullet will just bounce around in their body.
Rimfire ammo such as .22LR doesn't detonate reliably, even in a high quality gun. Pick something else if you can
>>30152939
So fucking what? The Kennedy's die if you stare at them hard enough.
>>30153141
which is ironic since they can't even properly drown a drunken hooker..
