S/k/out rifles
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
How does /k/ feel about scout rifles? Looking to grab one since it'll basically be one of the only good legal options for Californians soon.
accurate, light, hard-hitting and durable. some people dont see the point in LER scopes, i love mine.
>>30059074
I think they're stupid. Why mount your scope forward of the bolt when practically every modern firearm is able to mount the scope directly above?
Now I could get it if something about the design of the receiver, bolt, or something else made it impossible to mount directly over the bolt but that's a pretty niche case (such as the M14/M1A). So I think doing it when it otherwise isn't required is idiotic. I see no practical benefit and it is different than the majority so it is near worthless. At least bullpups are simply a training issue.
>>30059074
If you're in the bay area get this instead. Guy is blowing it out for chickenfeed.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1191103
>>30059170
Two reasons. Cooper was obsessed with loading from >clips, and most of the early scout rifles were converted from old milsurp. That and a LER gives you a good field of view / situational awareness
I don't like it but the Savage seems like a decent rifle even if you mount the scope further back.
>>30059074
Obsolete concept, surpassed by any modern .308 semiauto rifle. Get one only if you like the look.
>>30059210
Very nice, wish I could pick that up.
A product of its time, and times have changed. It still manages to be a somewhat versatile concept, but ironically, its proponents rigidly adhere to the specifics laid out over three decades ago and act like JC himself wouldn't have done things differently if he had access to the kind of optics and rifles we do now.
>>30059074
whats the name of this?
>>30059268
Its a Sporterized Spanish FR-8
I would buy one if it was a Mauser action that took AR-10 Mags and was able to feed off of Stripper clips
>>30059281
thank you
>>30059311
The ruger Gunsite scout in .308 does all that minus feeding from clips.
>>30059413
>ruger
into the trash that goes.
>>30059074
fucking stupid. what does it do better than a modern semi auto .308?
california is retard. do they think somebody with a bunch of stripper clips cant find a good position and still be effective with a bolt gun? they will be coming for your hunting rifles next.
>>30059462
>>30059462
What do you have against Ruger? Their firearms seem okay to me.
>>30059074
Would the Tikka T3 CTR be banned under the new California laws?
It has a detachable magazine and threaded barrel so I assume it's evil according to Califags.
>>30059074
I'm thinking about getting a Springfield scout and just putting a short range scope or a magnified red dot.
Not trying to treat it lie a sniper rifle, but be able to engage raiders from say across the street in a third story building.
>>30059540
of course it will be you heartless monster
the threaded barrel guides the bullets to urban youth who are about to go to college
>>30059462
I love my ruger red hawk. The only thing I can possibly complain about is that the mini -14/ranch rifle should be a $499.99 dollar rifle at most and $100.00 should be shaved off the scout rifle.
Looking forward to their semi auto shotgun and I hope they release a gigh capacity tactical model.
>>30059583
They are making a semi auto shotgun??
>>30059598
They did not anounce it, but one gun blog found out Ruger went to the patent office with several shotgun parts and mechanism. To patend.
Most likely if this is all they are working on a next shot show announcement so I don't expect it for at least two or three years unless they scrap the project.
Kinda in the market for a new shotgun, myself, but I'll be patient and see if any more news comes out next shot show.
Petsonally I would have settled for a high quality pump gun that had the best qualities of a Mossberg and Remington with a chrome lined barrel...but it looks to be a semi auto.
>>30059529
Not him.
Their QC can be somewhat spotty. Though IIRC they have a great warranty.
>>30059529
>>30059659
Oh, and a huge reputation as a fudd gun company.
I would love to turn an old milsurp into a scout riffle for innawoods or at least putting a scout scope onto an SKS
>>30059462
I love mine. Light, accurate and built like a tank. Fun gun to shoot. The muzzle break could be better... it is basically a noise amplifier. But overall I am happy. I love hunting with this gun as I have a 2 day walk in and walk out where I hunt and it is easy to carry.
>>30059210
very good price for a great rifle
>>30059232
>looking to grab rifle in OP
>"wish I could grab one"
so are you in the market for a gun or not
KYS
>>30059074
Fucking dumb. LER scope makes it worse at everything. Once you ditch the LER because it's bullshit, you're left with a typical sporter. The "scout concept" is vapid and describes a utilitarian hunting rifle with a weird sight setup.
>but muh flexibility and backup irons
Just about every bolt action sporter sold into the 80's and maybe early 90's came with irons. They were eventually deleted on most models, because for 99% of hunting you're better off with a scope, and if you're going to use optics you want them mounted close to the bore and in a place you can get a consistent cheekweld that mitigates parallax problems.
>>30060141
>ive never looked through a scout scope before.
its way faster on target than any other magnified option. also, rear ghost ring > v blade sights.
>>30059074
I always had a crazy idea of taking a MVP and somehow make a steyr scout looking/inspired stock.
Can it be done?
They don't offer flex system in wood though.
As with most things there are pros and cons with a scout buil (as laid out by jeff cooper). The pros include a very lightweight and handy high power rifle. the cons include the fairly limited optic and the capacity/firepower. oh and a complicated as hell sling system.
I chose to build out a vepr in 308 to meet my needs and its a fun compact do-it-all rifle. Its too heavy to call a scout rifle at just under 10lbs full loaded with 20 rounds of 308... so its not something I'd call easy to carry for a long hump.
I'm still thinking of building a classic scout, but that will come after building a real precision bolt rifle first.
I would get a Ruger Gunsite but those are very expensive over here.
I also saw one of those savage scout rifles and it's even more expensive.
It's just not good for price/quality. I would rather get another semi auto rifle in that price point.
>>30059074
>>30059074
nofuns here; the first rifle I want is an Eagle-15 MFT w/ Echo Trigger bearing in mind I can customize it more in the future. The second I want is a s/k/out rifle; either from Ruger or Savage although I wouldn't shoot down the thought of a Mossberg MVP Scout. While I'll likely never to be in a position to own either there is no doubt they are nice.
Have you thought of buying a Henry rifle? The front-loading tubes they have are still legal and can hold up to 16 rounds depending on your caliber.
>>30060973
>vepr with 20 round magazines of .308
Are they at least double stack?
The concept honestly works better with an intermediate cartridge, or something else with otherwise low recoil impulse, than it does with 7.62 NATO. Maybe a short action 6.5-something if you don't want to use .300BLK or 5.56.
>>30060505
Could rip the actual mating components out of an existing flex stock and somehow attach them to a custom wood stock.
>>30061644
http://stores.csspecs.com/vepr-308/
hair longer than an m14 20 rounder
>>30059074
The actual "scout rifle" as laid out by Jeff Cooper is fucking dumb.
>hey forward set optic to allow the use of stripper clips...on a rifle with detachable mags!
>lol cannot have anything higher than a 4x scope, you don't NEED it!
>has to be ONLY in either .308 or 7mm-08, literally any other caliber is physically impossible!
Col. Cooper was a fudd, even when he came up with the idea.
However the idea of a short, light, easy to handle full-rifle-cartridged gun with low to medium magnification for the purpose of shooting inside 500m (either against people or as a brush gun). There's a reason for the entire history of the Henry and Winchester leverguns, the Enfield jungle carbine, and a few others.
>>30061659
Vepr guy again.
Cooper's scout rifle was really meant for people out towards the rural "wilderness" side of things. Since even more of us now live in suburban sprawl/city life, the need for something bigger than .223 dwindles. Most of the scout rifle's usefulness is better served with an AR platform in modern times.
However, I still like the idea of a single rifle that can do it all and is lightweight enough to not be uncomfortable walking distances. The bolt action also has a huge upside in a survival situation: it doesn't look military and won't flag you as a "tactical" type.
lol scout rifles as grey man gear.
>>30059231
>obsolete concept
yeah
>surpassed by any modern .308 semiauto
Except for the whole "light" part, since most modern .308 semi's are over 10lbs and only 2 are under 9.
>>30059501
Weigh less.
>>30061732
Cooper's Scout Rifle was actually purposely designed as a recon rifle for the Marine Corps Scout Snipers.
But since he came up with it after Vietnam and basically the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD realized that semi-auto was the way to go, he tried to re-spin it as "totally a hunting gun guise".
But it's really not too good as a hunting gun.
>>30061766
>But it's really not too good as a hunting gun.
Ten rounds of bearslayer in a light rifle is always going to be a good hunting gun as long as you're not taking stupidly long 400+ yard shots.
wouldn't a scout rifle make an excellent boar and brush gun? I imagine it would be fantastic up here (WI) for deer as well.
>>30061786
Hell yes it would. I'm planning on getting one in stainless as my innawoods rifle for western Washington.
>>30061778
>scout rifle
>ten rounds
And which scout rifle is this? Because surely it's not any of the ones that meet Cooper's definition of Scout Rifle, since those are required to have an internal magazine fed by stripper clips and nobody has ever made an internal-magazine bolt action rifle that held 10 rounds.
>b-but I meant the GSR!
Not a scout rifle. Jeff Cooper himself said so, based on the fact that it has a detachable box magazine and no stripper clip guide. Also it's entirely too heavy.
>.308 or 7mm-08
>bearslayer
I don't think you really understand something here. Yes, those will kill a bear provided you make a good shot. No, they are not bearslayer rounds.
>b-buh I meant the Hog Hunter in .338Fed!
Also not a scout rifle and other than being short meets NONE of the criteria to be one.
>>30061823
>REEEEEEEEEEE GSR DOESN'T COUNT REEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>>/r9k/
>I don't think you really understand something here. Yes, those will kill a bear provided you make a good shot. No, they are not bearslayer rounds.
They'll do just fine for black bears. I wouldn't go anywhere near grizzly or polar without something like a hot-loaded .30-06 or .45-70.
>>30061778
>ten rounds of literally anything that can be considered "bearslayer"
>light rifle
Pick one.
>shooting anything that could be considered "bearslayer"
>through a light rifle
RIP your shoulder.
>>30061640
OP here, I did consider a lever gun. Sadly all the gun stores around me have issues selling pistol caliber rounds to me even though I'll insist it's for a rifle. Fucking California. Also a full rifle caliber just makes more sense power wise.
>>30061835
And why should the GSR count? It meets only 1 of the ~10 listed criteria of a "scout rifle".
>b-but they call it a scout rifle!
So if I were to market a belt-fed, tripod-mounted HMG as a scout rifle that permanently and unequivocally makes it a scout rifle?
The Savage and Steyr offerings are the closest modern-production rifles to actual scout rifles. But neither holds 10 rounds and neither has stripper clip guides.
>not saying that isn't an improvement though, scout rifle as laid out by Cooper is antiquated at best and pretty much retarded.
>they'll do just fine for black bears
So will literally every other deer or predator round from .222 Remington Special on up. Doesn't make them "bearslayer" rounds. Black bears are fucking pussies. Small pussies at that.
I'd love a .7mm-08 with a 20" barrel, three sling lugs, a 2-7x optic, and a ching sling for stalking.
But I've never used a long eye relief optic before. How picky are those regarding eye placement, and what would you really lose from using a rear mounted scope at the lowest setting?
>>30061882
>I can only get a lever gun in pistol rounds
Lever action rifles are currently produced in basically every modern centerfire rifle round from .223 through .338WM, plus .38-55, .45-70, .444 Marlin, .50 Alaskan, .405win, and probably a few others.
>winchester 1876 and clones
>winchester 1886 and clones
>winchester 1894 and clones
>winchester 1895 and clones
>Marlin 336
>Browning BLR
>Savage 99
>>30059583
I'm just sitting here waiting for the day that ruger announces a lever action in .45-70
>>30061902
>how picky are those regarding eye placement?
Really depends on the scope, but can range from "extremely" to "kinda".
>and what would you really lose from using a rear mounted scope
The ability to mount an aperture-style rear sight at the back of the receiver. That's it.
>>30059667
Bill Ruger is dead. Those values died with him.
>>30061914
My days of having good enough eyes for using irons past 50m are gone, I'm afraid. Normal optic for me after all.
>>30061905
Can't forget about .30-30
>>30061941
Fug. Right.
>managed to forget the world's most popular deer round
>>30059170
If you use a 1x or low magnification, long eye-relief scope you can sight with both eyes open. You can get on target very fast (like with a ghost ring) while still maintaining a view of your surroundings.
>>30061933
If you're willing to spend more than $200 on an LER optic the pickiness is pretty marginal. However, be aware there's a pretty narrow market for LER scopes. Also some of them don't really tolerate recoil, but that shouldn't be an issue on even a light 7mm-08.
>#shrekt a Burris XTR on a .500S&W Magnum lever gun within 5 shots
Wears a Nikon now.
>>30061951
I already do that with low power variable optics mounted in the normal position though. Maybe not as fas as with a let optic, but definitely faster than normal irons.
what does everyone thing of the CUR spec?
http://www.scout.com/outdoors/hunting/story/1394065-the-cur?s=77
>>30062184
>tool-less application of irons, red dot, *and* magnified optic
Not aware of any tool-less irons. Pretty much everything requires either an allen wrench or screwdriver to put on, which are fucking tools.
>must hold MOA with 3-shot groups and expanding ammo
That's pretty restrictive. I agree with it, but many don't. It also greatly reduces the number of factory guns that could work.
>shills the MVP hard
The MVP requires a LOT of professional gunsmithing work to get up to par. It's rough as hell from the factory. It has the potential to be a good gun though.
>>30061737
DPMS compact hunter is 7.75lbs, for instance.
>>30059540
Not semi-auto so it's fine
>>30059170
>Why mount your scope forward of the bolt when practically every modern firearm is able to mount the scope directly above
>Why mount your scope forward of the bolt
Do you even know what a scout is?
>>30059231
>surpassed by any modern .308 semiauto rifle
308 has nothing to do with this
>>30062481
Yep (well, a couple other models of G2 as well). The only other one being the 16" SCAR17S.
Every other semi .308 on the market is over 9lbs.
>>30062512
>308 has nothing to do with this
.308/7.62x51 was Cooper's ideal round for scout rifles, so it is as relevant as it gets.
>>30059667
>fudd gun company
And to everyone else that just secretly makes it more attractive. You are alone on the issue.
>>30062481
Yeah, but DPMS wants an extra $500 over a comparable mag fed bolt-action in that same caliber. That's roughly 500 rounds of match ammo just for a gas powered action that I likely won't need unless I hunting 2-legged varmints.
Normally I would just suck it up and shell out the money, by the fact that AR-15s go for 50%-66% of an AR-10 annoys me.
>>30062512
one of the tenants of a scout rifle is having enough bullet to take down any game in north america. i believe cooper says the 308 is the minimum for this
>>30062563
>that I likely won't need unless I hunting 2-legged varmints
So if you're using it only for hunting, why not have a normal hunting rifle instead of a goofy scout rifle? The scout rifle concept is a solution in search of a problem.
>>30062566
Way to, conservation assholes. Your bison re-introduction campaign just fucked those plans up.
>>30061732
>lol scout rifles as grey man gear.
nothing with a scope is 'grey man'. Normies think every rifle with a scope is a HIGH POWAH SN-EYE-PAH RAIFU
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-man-murdered-in-driveway-was-shot-with-a-high-powered-sniper-rifle-from-180-metres-police
>>30062502
As a general description,
>bolt action
>about .30 cal
>short
>very light weight
Commonly has a scope or the ability to mount a scope forward of the bolt. Which as other anons have noted, a Long Eye Relief optic is of questionable utility and value. So tell me why I should shell out for this special snowflake rifle type when it doesn't do anything better than any other light bolt action. Especially since other bolt actions can actually mount a scope above the bolt which will give you better eye relief and therefor better accuracy.
>>30062546
I never said I had a problem with them. Hell, I'm more of a fudd than anything. Love the look of steel and wood, and I vastly prefer using bolt action rifles over semi-auto. I just don't hold to any of the silly fudd beliefs like
>you'll blow all the meat off the deer
>assault rifles are useless for hunting
etc
I love the concept. It's basically a bolt or semi auto equivalent of a .30-30 lever gun for size, weight, and versatility. A GSR plus a .357 mag revolver would give you a ton of flexibility for travel guns, whether by car or innawoods.
>>30062585
Fair point. I don't like LER optics, but I hate fucking with internal magazines. I guess it depends where you draw the line at a scout rifle.
My main complaint with most hunting rifles are internal magazines, too long barrels, and overpowered optics. Fixing that doesn't really make it a scout rifle, I guess.
>>30062612
>internal magazines
They are shit, but fortunately hunting rifles come with detachable magazines as well these days. Savage and Sako do a bunch of them, for example, probably others too. Barrel length and optic power is subject to the user's preference, so it's a non-issue.
>>30062566
>tenants
So you have scout rifles living with you and paying rent? Word you're after is TENET.
And you're still wrong. The Scout Rifle concept is:
>short
>light
>chambered in a military or milsurp round (.308 or .30-06 for Americans, he espoused 6.5x55 for Euros)
>internal magazine fed by stripper clips
>forward-mounted, low-power FIXED POWER scope specifically to retain the ability to feed from stripper clips
Nearly 30 years later he went "Okay, .243 and 7mm-08 is kinda-sorta okay if you're a manlet or woman BUT .308 STRONK! Gotta use all dem surplus rifles that aren't chambered in my pet caliber but maybe could be possibly be rebarreled and have the stripper clip guides reworked at great expense but IT COULD WORK!"
>>30062594
>scope and bipod on lever action
Middle-aged fudd living the dream as a hitman, I see.
>>30062612
Good point here.
I think my liking the idea of the scout rifle boils down to the same thing. A compact light magazine fed full power rifle with lower power optic.
I'm thinking of building out something similar to this... whats available? looks like every scout rifle could handle this with the exception of the GSR...you'd have to lose the rear aperture sight to mount a traditional optic on there.
>>30062612
So buy one of the literally dozens of factory hunting rifles that have detachable box magazines (so at this point pretty much everything that isn't an R700, Win m70, or Weatherby Mk5) in a caliber other than a traditional magnum so you get the 22" barrel, then mount a low-power variable on it.
>>30062651
you missed the (now laughable) 2moa accuracy and 3 point ching sling requirements...
you know...if you want to get all anal about things.
>>30062676
>you'd have to lose the rear aperture
It comes off with a single allen key.
Also you have the Savage Scout, Savage Hog Hunter, Mossberg MVP, Ruger American carbine, and a few others that fit the bill of short, light rifles.
>>30059074
California legal
>80% lower?
>>30062676
Savage FCP, 1-6x/2-7x, sling.
>>30062683
I'm actually planning to rechamber a Savage 10 if I can find a detachable magazine conversion.
>>30062724
Bunch of people make DBM's for Savage rifles (the short-action kits should fit 10's, 11's and 16's, and maybe the 25's)
What even is the benefit to using a fixed power scope over a variable?
>>30062708
>still subject to all of the normal AR laws once built
>state is trying to make it a requirement to serialize and register 80%s
>>30062738
lighter, cheaper, more durable...
>>30062738
At any given price point under ~$800 they have better glass than a variable, and can be lighter without sacrificing durability.
>>30062743
Which will have zero impact on a persons ability to actually get these weapons in the first place. All it does is criminalize people that obeyed the laws in the first place.
>>30062768
>3D print a polymer lower
>Mags from Nevada
>Fuck the police
>>30062691
ah, right.
Also forgot the
>full top handguard
Since, y'know, shooting a full-power, ultralight bolt action with fixed internal magazines fast enough (or even just enough) to get the barrel hot enough to burn you is a totally legit concern.
>>30062768
preaching to the choir anon
>>30062743
yeah, that's another obama scare bs that won't go through...
>>30062743
>still subject to all of the normal AR laws once built
Does that matter? do you need an 8" barrel automatic?...I mean you were looking at scouts...kinda the opposite end of the spectrum there.
>>30062806
>obama scare
except these are all CA laws which are already passing through
they passed the senate, next is the assembly then to the governer's desk
just hoping moonbeam vetoes them
>>30059667
Ruger makes multiple ARs, CCW pistols, and now a scary black long-range rifle.
Bill Ruger was fudd incarnate, but he's been dead for a long time. The company has changed.
1.5x, 2x, or 4x?
>>30059413
It takes ar 10 mags?
>>30062860
so a single magnification on a 308? 4x. Will be a touch harder up close but lets you reach out and get full usage out of that heavy 308 round.
>>30059074
What rifle is this? Looks good
>>30063222
Savage Scout, which is basically a Savage Hog Hunter with their normal stock, an aperture rear mounted on the rear scope mount, and a Brass Stacker rail in the "normal" rear sight dovetail.
buck yeager (most tactiqueer faggot of all time) recently did a scout build
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Y7c3-PmFM
>>30063720
That intro gave me cancer.
>>30063720
Wow he moves old there. I'm over 30 and completely out of shape it that looked like it hurt
>>30062891
Sadly, no. Proprietary ten-rounders are what you're stuck with unless someone made an aftermarket version.
>>30061680
Too bad I can't cut polymer, wish to make the front end steyr scout shape.
Wood seems easer to work with.
>>30061766
I assumed bolt over semi was because
Less parts = less to fuck up.
How complex is a straight pull? You think styer scout be better straight pull?
>>30066242
Mausers have generally been considered superior to straight pulls for a century. That's why the M1903 was a fake-Mauser to replace the Krag.
>>30062594
You think having a PSO style scope be better?
Quick detach on side, or whatever.
>>30062594
>high powered sniper rifle
>it's a fucking BLR with a scope on less than 200 yards
Nogunz, when will they learn?
>>30059074
I always wanted to make a scout project in 223.
.223 or 7.62x39 bolt action about 5 lbs
Any recommendation?
>>30066353
Ruger sells their GSR in .223, or you can bubba a Mini-14.
>>30066368
Mini-14s are picky eaters though right?
>>30066391
They're a little pickier than the AR but I haven't heard too many horror stories.
>>30059529
My Ruger Scout happily filled my freezer with pepper stick last fall, and when my Redhawk broke, Ruger fixed it for free along with free shipping. It was only gone a week. Hard to beat that.
>>30061905
How would a pointy .223 not chain fire in a lever gun?
>>30066429
There are leverguns with box mags, and Hornady makes bullets with polymer tips so you can use spitzer rounds in tube mags.
>>30059462
Larry pls kill yourself
>>30066399
if only they take AR mags
>>30066440
Well thanks you schooled me on Spitzer rounds and made me sit through a few minutes of Nut'n Fancy reviewing the Browning BLR. I'm not happy with you for that.
>>30066258
Fake? We actually licensed it from the Germans and even during WW1 were paying the Germans for the privilege of shooting krauts with their own design. It's the little ironies in life that make it fun.
The scout rifle design is interesting but I've never handled an extended eye relief scope. Is it still relevant with all the new traditional low power optics around?
>>30067755
>We actually licensed it from the Germans
That was only after they sued the US for patent violation and won.
>>30059598
An anon a while back claimed that he worked for Ruger and told us to watch for it's announcement. Sure enough, he was right.
>>30059231
>16 year old summerfag nofuns detected.
You know you have to be 18 to post here right?
Would a Remington 600 make a good scout rifle? It seems to fit the bill pretty well.
>>30068393
Add scope mounts and sling mounts and that would certainly work. Why the fuck did they stop selling that?
>>30068578
Apparently the aesthetics were too "unorthodox" for gun reviewers at the time, despite the fact that it was a technically sound rife.
My grandpa actually has one lying in his closet that'll be mine one day, so I did a little homework on it.
>>30068393
>35 rem
Fukkin noice, 35rem is a superb brush round.
>>30059957
Depending on the rifle and the mount you get for it, it can be iffy. Pic related, my m48 with a 2-7x on it. The front leveling screw keeps walking out from recoil. So now I've tried putting thread tape on the front screw. Will try sighting it in again after my eardrum heals. Corded plugs got caught between the stock and my shoulder and was torn out when I fired. Report made a 1mm hole in my eardrum. Should heal in a few weeks. Yes, I'm a dumbass for not noticing where my ear pro cord was.
>>30060002
christ almighty, do you leave the stickers on your hats too?
>>30059553
I lol'd
>>30064894
They are not proprietary
They are a accuracy international mags
>>30071052
I agree with you, but the point is still the same. It's not an ar10 magazine that costs 10-20 bucks.
>>30062589
You say it like bison are coastal grizz. They're glorified cows
>>30059074
>short barrel in a rifle round
Absolutely disgusting. It's like you enjoy throwing away your velocity.
>>30066353
CZ527 fits most of the requirements
>>30066429
Cases bring tapered, polymer tipped ammo, box mags and modern primers not being sensitive as fuck. There have been tests trying to get chainfires on modern guns. Normally just blows a case
>>30066292
By definition, the day they bite the bullet (hue!) and get over they fear to become hasfunz.
>>30072976
True, but I was more hoping for a calendar date.
I like the concept, though i wouldn't pay the money for the special made rifles they sell. got a LER for my Mosin. it's an alright hog ranged scope that i don't need to bend the bolt handle to mount.
Don't use it as much as i want to anymore though.
>>30062607
I pretty much agree assuming it is magazine fed instead of clip/individually fed. That's the only reason for a scout rifle with forward mounted scope.
>>30059170
>I think they're stupid. Why mount your scope forward of the bolt when practically every modern firearm is able to mount the scope directly above?
Yeah. I would just stick with iron sights or maybe a reflex sight for a scout rifle.
>>30066475
Pic of me dicking with Larry Snickers on Instagram, the covered name is myself
Seriously though, Larry snickers is one of the few fuckers who can make me not enjoy a video of an AN94
>>30066292
>>30062594
I think a BLR is almost okay to call "high powered" because it can shoot long range calibers like .30-06 and .308. Your average lever action is definitely far from a sniper rifle. The only thing here I would doubt is the accuracy maybe. It's a pretty cool setup though.
I would also strongly consider .223 since ammo is cheaper and it is still probably good enough. The exact adherence to Cooper's concept is kind of dumb, but I think as a broad idea with some changes, it has merit. I think the savage hog hunter might be my next gun. It has iron sights, seems like it would be fairly accurate, isn't too expensive, and I could get it in .223 or .308. Of course my nugget does a lot of these things, but when milsurp ammo almost totally dries up, I think .223 would be a nice compromise for economical, fun shooting and other uses. Any other suggestions regarding caliber? The only bolt guns I have are a nugget and a .22LR Marlin. I don't really feel like buying an AR-type rifle at the moment.
>>30059074
That just looks wrong to me.
My brain can't comprehend the difference in scope position.
>>30066429
Box Magazine, or use polymer tipped ammo...Hornady makes a line called Lever Evolution just for that purpose.
https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/the-long-ranger/
Man, if this had back up irons or minimalist sights, this would make a handy and dependable brush gun.
Hell, I want a top stripper clip loaded re production of the Russian Contract Winchesters.
>>30074271
Well, yeah .223/5.56 rifle would be good for cheap ammo for plinking...if you can afford it maybe not for casual plinking, but warm up practice and then hunting; .308 is the next step which can be bolt action or semi auto
but if you just want hunting in a bolt action or lever then get 30-06 or 45-70 a bit more expensive ammo but still very common and can kill large game.
Depends on what you want.
Nugget is basically a 30-06 but lets face it, as fun are nuggets are, they are not a rifle you'd want to hump in the woods with if for real shtf or hunting ans surplus will dry out of a mainly import caliber, even if it's a mass produced caliber like soviet 7.62x39.
If you live in America, it's better on going with common domestic calibers unless you plan on stock piling a lot of foreign import ammo.
The M1 garand action of the Springfield M1A and the Ruger Mini-14 are not precision shooting guns for target/competition or tactical defense/sniping and not that great compared to an AR-15 for battle, but if you are absolutely apposed to an AR-15 which can be made into a precision gun easily but just want good enough accuracy then a Mini-14 with a 18 barrel or heavy barrel is good for fun shooting, M1A's are decent accuracy for close range to mid range combat and you can hunt with them.
>>30074373
I think /k/ would go apeshit for new made lever nuggets. I'd certainly consider one.
>>30059529
Most people's issue with Ruger is philosophical. The founder, Bill Ruger, is the one who originated the idea of a magazine capacity limitation/ban as a measure to prevent outright gun confiscation in the late 80's and early 90's. He also found a need to justify why firearms are needed with "hunting" or "competition" as opposed to simply recreational, self defense, political activism, etc.
>>30061823
>nobody has ever made an internal-magazine bolt action rifle that held 10 rounds
If I built one I'd probably use one of those short action 6.5mm cartridges that target shooters love so much. Lighter recoil cartridge to make up for how lightweight a scout rifle is supposed to be.
I can guarantee your shoulder would be suffering if you fired .308 from a 5.5lb rifle for any real length of time.
>>30074471
>of the Springfield M1A and the Ruger Mini-14 are not precision shooting guns for target/competition or tactical defense/sniping
I can't stand it when people try to use their pen and paper D&D stats shit on guns.
Know your gun and you can do damn near anything within 1000 yards. git gud.
>>30074565
Enfield isn't an internal non-detachable.
>>30074601
I'd like to see him violently shake that rifle and then go back to shooting, just to see how greatly the POI shifts.
>>30059659
>Their QC can be somewhat spotty.
Name one gun company this doesn't apply to. When SIG or S&W churn out turds everyone seems to forgive and forget immediately afterwords, but never with Ruger for some reason...
>>30061571
Exquisite.
I really want a k-31, I wish I could have afforded one when they were still like $200. I would just get a k-11 but it looks like the surplus GP 11 ammo is drying up.
That stock is great, did you refinish it yourself?
>>30060002
Couldn't u just get another break anon?
>>30074625
Do the same with any AR. at 600+ ranges anything more than a tube with breachplug will be the same.
>>30072554
> Glorified cows
Saw a 1 year old 1200lbs Angus bull knock the door off of a truck once. And bison get to 2000lbs.
Not to dismiss the pants shitting terror of a charging brown or polar bear, but keep in mind bison cause more injuries than all other wildlife combined in Yellowstone.
>>30074612
They detach for cleaning only. My No.4 Mk1 requires like 25 lbs of force to press down the magazine release, and the floorplate just loves to fly off when I'm pressing the magazine back in. My No.1 Mk3 sporter has that spring lightened considerably to the point where swapping a magazine is viable. Saying the as-issued Enfield has a detachable magazine is disingenuous - it simply wasn't done.
>>30061728
Cooper developed the scout rifle concept in response to the "one gun" question. Every part of that rifle is based around a very limited budget.
>clips and magazines
Why stripper clips and magazines? because the guy who can only own one rifle probably won't be sitting on two dozen magazines, but may have *hundreds* of loaded stripper clips as that's a common package for milsurp ammo
>4x max
If you only have one rifle, you probably don't have a vast training budget, so limiting the power of the optic to a fairly low magnification serves a threfold purpose: lower power scopes tend to be lighter (and thus is synergistic with the concept), it aids in quick acquisition due to a larger ocular pupil being easy to cultivate with a low power optic, and a lower power optic inclines a shooter to ascribe subconsciously a range limit that's fairly short and well within the range someone with a limited training budget could make an ethical shot on game (which will be the primary purchase of someone's "one rifle").
>7mm-08 or .308Win ONLY
Cooper developed this concept before the advent of the internet and online ammo orders. He defined this limit because he qualified an ideal "one rifle" as having very common ammo which can be found at any country gas station and is very unlikely to require a special order or be sold out.
Cooper did not enshrine the scout concept as the best of all worlds and the ultimate in small arms design. He designed it as something to give someone "(One rifle which will) ...do a great many things equally well."
Note: He did not say this is the best at *anything* but rather exists (and is meant to exist) as a jack of all trades.
this is the most reccent rifle released to Cooper's specs as a fighting rifle:
https://www.erathr3.com/products/project-anorexia
His system includes a 1-5x optic and an atlas bipod.
He's not a fudd, but you can think whatever you want.
>>30074601
It's all memes about the M14/M1A. I can't think of any other weapon that gets shit on so much for not being able to shoot the wings off a fly at 900 yards.
>>30074720
It wasn't done back then but it could be used like a detachable mag rifle today.
>>30068393
> .308
> 5.5lbs rifle
That's going to get your attention on the first shot.
>>30074601
>Drop two grand on a gun, glass bed the stock, unitize the gas system, read a small library's worth of books on reloading, and pray for the best and you can do damn near anything within 1000 yards for about 200 rounds at a time
Fixed
>>30074748
People shit on the M1a because it seems like it would make a great semi-auto target rifle, but it's too much of a PITA to be worth the cost and effort to make it one.
>>30074708
>, but keep in mind bison cause more injuries than all other wildlife combined in Yellowstone.
Thats more to do with having a shitload of bison and people treating them like it's a petting zoo than the nature of the beast so to speak. Sorta like Chihuahuas and pit bulls.
Not saying they aren't impressive animals but historically they aren't terribly difficult to bring down, excluding exceptional circumstances where two super-cobras had to be called in to dispatch a bull that's gotten into the mountain dew. Because there is always one of those stories for anything that's ever been killed
>>30074765
You could make an Enfield work as a detachable, yes, by altering an issued one or with a more modern making such as the 7.62 NATO Ishapore rifles or the AIA improved enfields... but you're being pedantic. Enfields were designed to have their magazine charged from clips. Just because you can alter an SKS to take AK mags doesn't mean that the SKS has a "detachable magazine"
>>30059074
i think the name of scout rifle needs to be re appropriated. all respect due, the accepted scout rifle is poor for scouting activities
i do no purport any of iraqveteran8888s videos of philosophies, but his bubba'd mosin in a video made in the last few months i would regard as a true and modern scout rifle. short tapped barrel and compacted where possible, variable ammunitions for ranges and stealth, and a high power scope
>>30076655
keyboard had a stroke on this post. videos or philosophies
>>30076655
like a middle ground between a long rifle and an sbr. many ballistics tests claim 14" barrels are the most efficient size for length and fps
>>30076655
x54R neither meets the cartridge criteria mentioned here >>30074740 , nor is it a good round for a <20" barrel. Mosins aren't even all that cheap anymore...
Why do target shooters go for such retardedly long barrels again?
>>30072670
>>30066368
Any more?
Semi or bolt.
>>30076909
They're the unholy spawn of fudds and ricers.
Ishapore or that Egyptian 308... What was the name?
Either way I'm coming around to the idea of s light traditionally mounted optic bolt gun. Id do it in 223 or 300blk though.
>>30077404
I'd prefer a .308 for my purposes because I'm more likely to encounter trouble on four legs than two, so stopping power matters, but .223 or 300blk would probably be better for combat.
>>30077456
>but .223 or 300blk would probably be better for combat.
...in a semi-auto that has a 20+ round magazine capacity.
![IMG_1630_comp_for_web_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iwLtPCa.jpg "IMG_1630_comp_for_web_1[1].jpg")
>>30077456
6.5 Creedmoor brah.
Hornady's a-max bullets are fucking crazy.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Wound+Database/6.5mm+-+Hornady+A-Max.html
>>30059170
Because bent bolt handles are a compromise. A forward mounted scope allows for a straight bolt handle
>>30059659
>>30074671
My experience with ruger is pretty good. The one thing I can say is rugers definately need a break in period. They tend to feel gritty and poorly finished at first but after awhile they smooth right up. First time I worked the bolt on my scout it felt kinda gross. After an hour with some snap caps and then some range time it was pretty dam smooth. Just my $.2
Another commiefornian here, been looking for something long range..was thinking:
Howa 1500
Remington 700
Tikka t3
Mossberg mvp patrol
Mossberg patriot
>>30076655
Thats why that CUR rifle mentioned above is nice.
>>30076705
Almost like some kind of...idk...carbine or something
>>30061823
Did you even read art of the rifle? He never precluded detachable box mags as part of the concept. 3 kilos was the ideal weight, and the gsr comes in just over that at 3.2 kilos.
>.308 not a bear killer
Alaskan guides would tend to disagree. .308 puts down a bear reliably. As with anything, especially a bear, shot placement is paramount
>>30076705
That's an extremely subjective claim
>>30078320
Breaking in a new rifle is always a pleasure.
How much does a suppressor quiet down a .308?
>>30078452
ah well, it being bolt action should still be a requirement. 1 argument towards the obsoletion of bolt actions is that the locked mechanism offers only negligible power retention. but 1 factor in their favor that is relevant here, is the 0 mechanical rapport
>>30066391
Not really, but their mag design is...sub-optimal. Ruger-brand mags work the best (which still isn't 100%) and everything else you might as well use as targets.
However once the round's out of the mag they're fine, even with the shittiest of steel case.
>>30068578
Because the Model 7 came about, which is the "carbine" version of the 700.
The 700-series actions were easier and cheaper to machine than the 600-series actions, despite selling for more.
>>30078578
sbr is often associated with semi auto. i said what i said in reference to a bolt action with an uncharacteristally short barrel. something like the ruger charger in bolt to me is the perfect scout rifle
>>30074521
Also his refusal to change a single thing on the 10/22 over ~50 years despite a huge outcry from the public for a LRBHO and a different mag release.
>Bill dies
>new 10/22's have a LRBHO and paddle mag release before he's even cold, plus folding express sights
Seriously it's the best thing to happen to that company.
>>30074565
>Enfield
>internal magazine
wew lad
>>30078578
No, what he said is literal and objective, it is not subject to anyone because it can be defined via measurements and consensus. Learn some vernacular before spouting things you presume to understand about the English language.
>>30076909
Per capita, they don't. There's a reason why your varmint-class and railgun style bench guns have 16-18" barrels. Only the guys shooting 600m+ go for the long barrels, because they do actually need the extra 50-100fps of velocity since they're more concerned with wind drift than mechanical accuracy, and a faster bullet has less drift than a slower bullet all other things being equal.
>>30078538
Do you not understand that Art of the Rifle came out nearly 30 years after he put down the Cooper Scout Rifleâ„¢ concept in writing and pitched a bid to the USMC for a military contract?
He's literally 180'd himself about 2 dozen times.
>>30078999
>being bolt action should still be a requirement.
Only because it helps with weight
>1 argument towards the obsoletion of bolt actions is that the locked mechanism offers only negligible power retention.
There power of the cartridgevarrying between bolt and auto revolves more around the auto reliably cycling the action without beating itself up, whereas bolts aren't as ammo sensitive be it with super hot or super cold ammo.
>but 1 factor in their favor that is relevant here, is the 0 mechanical rapport
While true, unless the user is at very close range or using subsonic ammo that's nearly negligible. There have also been some very quiet autos.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing for or against either
>>30078578
>>30079070
what he said is true in the sense that its subjective to the caliber. propellant is often measured assuming a certain amount of space in the barrel, so the 14' claim, though i have seen it across more than 1 caliber, can easily be untrue for different assumptions held. i maintain the belief that recon should be light, and ounces make pounds
>>30079211
sub·jec·tive
səbˈjektiv/
adjective
adjective: subjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
Verbatim
>>30079237
like i said later in the post, assumptions are held, subjective to the person. among those differing assumptions, there may be 1 or many in which the claim does not hold true.
i learned from a childrens card game something that i see everyone, in that personal preference often doesnt exist, its just an excuse made by people. but personal experience does exist, which can be used to contest or compare to something otherwise claimed to be true
>>30078176
desu I would still prefer a bent bolt
you can get a longer lever on it while still keeping the gun more compact. plus you don't have to move your hand as far to cycle the bolt
>>30079266
Why are you defending someone who is literally using words incorrectly? I previously defined the term subjective. Extrapolating your false definition doesn't change the meaning of words simply because you don't understand the word you're using.
What he said was not phrased as an assumption, it is an objective and measurable assumption. He didn't source, that doesn't make it subjective. This is reading comprehension 101, fiend.
Verbatim
>>30076886
>Mosins aren't even all that cheap anymore...
you can find a number of them for under $200 if you have a little patience, and it's pretty hard to beat the power of them at the price.
that said, they're not the most accurate guns out there but are at least usable out to 100yds. oh and milsurp ammo is kinda shit, but new production is more expensive than some of it's counterparts like .308
>>30079283
what the fuck, I didn't type desu
>>30079330
desu senpai
>>30059170
Thats a whole lot of jice opinions there. Here are my opinions on why its cool. Also something doesn't have to be cutting edge to be practical.
>long eye relief scopes are nice to use
>can load the rifle from clips since scout rifles are made from milsurp usually
>still have irons
>theyre neat and fun
>they arent scary ebil assultan wepens
>>30079324
Standard going rate is $250 currently.
That's a Savage Axis XP package (which includes a cheap but serviceable 3-9x scope) plus a box of ammo.
a lot of people treat scout rifles as toys and projects. something to complete the collection with. the philosophy of it was born of real and serious needs though. a forward scope isnt to be used as a normal scope, and isnt positioned as a kosher scope just further ahead
>>30079366
>LER scopes are nice to use
No they're not. They're a royal pain in the dick unless you're spending $500 plus on one. And even then they're still harder to use accurately than a modern traditional scope and provide significantly less magnification for twice the weight and bulk of a modern combat prism scope.
>can load rifle from clips since scout rifles are made from milsurp usually
And how many 8mm mauser/.303 clips can you find? How many sub-$500 K98K/Enfield jungle carbines/M44's that still have intact clip guides and a serviceable bore capable of <=2MOA can you find? Are you willing to drop another half a grand on gunsmithing to get said milsurp rifle under 6lbs without murdering any accuracy potential?
>still have irons
So do many models of current production guns.
>>30059074
>being a gunowner/2nd amendment supporter
>living in commiefornia
chose one op ether your a faggot SJW liberal hipster Californian or your an american... i never plan on visiting that state i dont know how you can live there...
>>30079466
Fuck you dude, some of us are born here. Some of us actually love guns and America.
Don't visit we don't fucking care. I hope and dream this nightmare will end soon. Eventually the gun grabbing Democrats with reach too far and we'll get everything overturned. Just you wait and see.
>>30079466
I was born in this state.
People who born/live here are victims of what is called the 'california trap' like the poverty trap.
>>30078328
I got a Remington 700 ADL Varmint 26" Heavy Barrel .308 from Dicks sporting Goods. Comes with cheap scope
Just replace the stock and add a mag well of your choice and you'll have a 700P variation.
> $500 plus $50 mail in rebate.
Right now they have it on sale for roughly the same no mail in rebate I think.
>>30080086
Different anon.
>Eventually the gun grabbing Democrats with reach too far and we'll get everything overturned. Just you wait and see.
I'd like to believe that, but they've been getting with murder for decades. Still I hope your state un-fucks itself one day.
>>30059074
Mini-14 that bad?
or just over price and ruger hates you?
My cousin ha a mini but has an AR and thinking to sell it.
>>30079438
leupolds scout scope weighs less than aimpoints do. and they are only more difficult to use at extended range because you dont have the extra power. at the same power, 2.5 for example, LER are actually easier and quicker to use.
>>30080127
Despite what many here say, modern Minis aren't bad guns at all. They're just seen as less practical(and rightfully so) due to the unparalleled ubiquity and modularity of the AR these days. Personally I'm not a fan of PG stocks on long guns, and I also kinda like the idea of an all-stainless carbine...
>>30060002
>>30074682
>break
>>30080127
Mini 14 is "on sale" this week at Turners Outdoorsman this week... way way way overpriced
> Their normal/ regular price is $849.99 plus tax+ dros
> Their weekly sale $50 off....
I'd love to buy a mini, but not at those prices here in California.
>>30080157
well dont have much need for bells and whistles and do like 'garand' look.
Despite living in Cali, I kinda like the long gun grip.
>>30080157
Guess I buy a mini14 and AR15 for daughter.
>>30080127
If everything passes the it wont be legal. So the mini is out.
>>30080157
would the dragunov stock count as a pistol grip?
I would like to have a VSS feel, but in california is known to have no fun
>>30080249
pass what?
>>30080249
CA new laws they are trying to pass. Anything that has a detachable mag... including the god damn ruger 10/22... yes they want to Ban those as well.
>>30080311
that sounds retarded.
>>30080311
Who do i write to stop this shit.
>>30080338
Gov Brown.
As far as scout rifles go I want to build one out of a mosin that I have. I got it in a trade with some other firearms but its a full rifle sans stock.
>>30074675
Nope, the stock is original. It's a commercial K31 made after they stopped issuing k31s to soldiers.
>>30079070
It isn't objective. It depends entirely on what you consider acceptable. Hell, alot of people think 16" for .308 is entirely too short and give an unacceptable velocity. Still more think 16" offers acceptable velocity. An objective claim along the same lines would be "tests have shown that where barrel length is concerned, 14" is the shortest you can go in x caliber before experiencing dramatic drop off in velocity" or something like that. That is objective. Saying "14" is the most efficient size for length and fps" is mother fucking subjective
>>30079120
>Concepts are concrete from the moment of conception and can never be changed
Ya, he changed his mind on alot of it. Because that's what you do when you develop an idea. Granted, he mainly changed his mind because he realized he couldn't sell the concept the way he wanted it
>>30079283
Eh, personal preference. I much prefer the straight bolt handle because it gives you alot more leverage. A bent handle puts the force you exert at a mechanical disadvantage to the bolt which exacerbates the cock on opening problem, but it's not enough to say any one way is the only way it should be done
![european-straight-pull-blaser-r8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I9GEJym.jpg "european-straight-pull-blaser-r8[1].jpg")
>>30081833
Why do all the modern straight pull rifles have retardedly fudd controls (hello manual cocking switch), delicate special snowflake locking mechanisms, and cost $3k+?
I want someone to recreate the Ross with some minor changes to the bolt stop location.
>>30082034
>Magazine is part of the trigger housing.
>You don't NEED high capacity clips in a HUNTING rifle anon!
Bump for great justice
>>30059074
You're better off with a good lightweight stock that supports a detachable mag bottom metal and a conventional scope mount.
It was applicable in coopers time, you can do better now with a sack full of mags.
>>30086140
So most of us agree that a modern do-it-all rifle can follow coopers weight and length recommendations but is better off with:
Detachable mags
Conventional low to mid power scope
Iron sights
Is 308 still the best option?
