So we obviously love ZUN and his danmaku touhou project with all of those games being pretty good for the most part, but there must be one touhou game you like a little less then the others? Been curious as to what the consensus may be on this here. Which touhou game do you like the least, anon? Fighting games not included, just want to see which of his danmakus /jp/ may like the least.
State your reasoning if you feel like it, it could be long-winded or just a small nitpick that puts it on the bottom of your list.
pic related, i know it was his first windows touhou and its charming and all, but the official art put me off back then and it still does today
Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom. Don't really care for it. Terrible resource and scoring system and a lot of sloppily designed patterns.
I don't think it's very nice to compare EoSD to poop. It's a good game.
I couldn't get into the photography ones: Shoot the Bullet and uhh... the other one. I think it's a great concept and I'm sure lots of people enjoy them, but I just couldn't get into them.
I still haven't tried the PC-98 games. I need to do that eventually.
>>/eientei/
MoF.
UFO is my least favorite. I don't like the UFO system, the cast other than Kogasa, nor most of its soundtrack (Stage 4 is fantastic though). It's not a bad game, I don't think any of the mainline Windows games are, just different and not for me. I know some people who love it.
I love EoSD's art actually. The way he drew Reimu is incredibly charming, as is Sakuya's goofy face.
This seems like a thinly veiled "call games 'overrated' and 'shit'" thread though.
Ten Desires
MoF and SA. I just hate everything about the system in them too much to play them. Also the fighting games may as well not exist to me.
LoLK was a mistake
all of em suck shit
DDC pretty much the most unimportant game in the lot. Most characters are forgettable with the exception of waggy saggy and maybe baki
Am I going to be calling the obvious by saying I liked SoEW the least?
DDC and Ten Desires were completely forgettable. I can't remember a single character from either of those games.
>>15486587
Are we including fighting games?
If not LoLK or TD. I would list ISC but it's unfair as it could be a great game and I would hate it, I just never liked the premise. Why mix danmaku with puzzles? If you only have one soloution then it loses value and replayability.
>>15486625
Double Spoiler
>>15486653
Renilia has a silly pose in EoSD, I done get why she just has her hands in front of her face doing nothing, she looks like a meerkat.
Is it weird I prefer older art? Zun's new stuff just bothers me for some reason.
>>15486719
DDC was a shame, werewolves had potential and now the space has been filled. Shame Sakuya didnt convince her to move to the SDM, I want goth horror youkai living together inside the mansion.
>>15486587
I hate everything about UFO other than Kogasa and the Stage 4 theme
>>15486653
>>15487530
hey wait a second
>>15486653
i fucking love that top right pose
every time she does it in game i mirror it
>>15486653
I agree, I found EoSD's art pretty nice, actually. The only portraits I didn't like were Sakuya's and Meiling's. I mean, come on, there's a difference between having your own drawing style and not doing your best when drawing something. Patchy's face was alright, so why not Meiling's and Sakuya's too?
My least favorite game would probably be DDC. I liked it, but I didn't find it as good as the others. One thing I'm sure about is that its soundtrack was the least memorable for me.
My least favorite had to be LoLK. Everything before Stage 5 felt challenging and fair, but everything Clownpiece and onward devolves into an unforgiving and poorly balanced nightmare. Overall, I still enjoyed it, but I have no desire to go back and finish Legacy mode after beating Pointdevice. (Fantastic OST though)
Also, though I like the concept, I hate the photography games for similar reasons. I feel like ZUN thinks that infinite lives is a good enough excuse to make the games unnecessarily difficult.
>Most characters are forgettable with the exception of waggy saggy and maybe baki
>I can't remember a single character from either of those games.
>DDC was a shame, werewolves had potential and now the space has been filled.
>One thing I'm sure about is that its soundtrack was the least memorable for me.
/jp/... how could you?
>>15486653
>>15488051
I really love the porcelain doll look he had going on back then.
>>15488176
This. /jp/ gets triggered by synthesized guitar too easily. It was nice to hear him go in a different direction as his style was getting a little stagnant by TD.
My least favorite is MoF. No cool scoring system, no satisfying graze and shitty bombs. If I had started with that game I probably wouldn't have gotten into the series at all as it really lacks a lot of the subtle things that make the game satisfying. Great characters and music, though.
Least favorites are definitely DDC and LoLK
DDC's just bland and unmemorable all around and LoLK is a mess.
>>15487264
>Is it weird I prefer older art? Zun's new stuff just bothers me for some reason.
Not at all, I personally dislike how pale everyone looks.
>>15488206
>It was nice to hear him go in a different direction as his style was getting a little stagnant by TD.
As much as I love our Crown Prince and Futo, this. TD was stale and its introduced mechanic was a hit-or-miss, depending on your attitude.
DDC meanwhile, to me, is a return to glory. The music is different, sure, but it isn't bad. The cast is again comprised of regular, run-of-the-mill, low-ranked youkai, who are more or less who Gensokyo was created for in the first place. It was a return to the roots after goddesses, shikaisen, zombies, youkai-ified thieving hags and other powerful personae. "The weak are rebelling" was a genius move to bring the series back to what it was originally about: youkai doing youkai things and the heroines smacking them into obedience.
As for gameplay, I enjoyed how "video gamey" the spellcards were: you had the regular first stage boss, a boss with a detachable turret/weak point, a boss that transforms and goes apeshit all over the screen, a boss that messes with the game's mechanics, and a boss that messes with your player character. Compared to plain old patterns it was a nice change of pace.
Ten Desires and everything that came out after that one.
TD will forever be the "wait... that's it?" newhou.
>>15486653
>>15487264
>>15489009
The newer stuff has a weird "plastic" look on it, and the poses are awkward. I'm not sure how to describe it, maybe it's the coloring. I really liked how Reimu and Marisa at least had a couple different poses in EoSD, the "bring it on" pose from Reimu is great.
The characters back then had a rough charm to them that feels a bit lost now. It wasn't "technically" as good, but I prefer it, weird faces and all. PCB and IN are similar, the faces are kind of chubby but overall very cute.
>>15488176
Shinmyoumaru and her theme are the reason I remember DDC at all. But they're both really good.
>>15489009
Pale skin is great. I guess the new stuff is just to clean, thats the best I can describe it.
Mountain of Faith was the worst, the bomb system was a pretty big downgrade, same with the continue system. Also spell cards were just in general more boring.
Ten Desires was the best.
Ten Desires and UFO
Ten Desires
PoFV is my fav even though I seldom play online.
>>15489206
Older stuff was traditional drawing, while newer stuff is digital, right?
>>15486653
The biggest problem with ZUN's art is he changes it every game.
Why he never stuck to a single style that worked for him and improve on that is beyond me.
>>15489055
The one thing I didn't like about TD was that it was so fucking easy. I'm no hardcore player, but I managed to beat Normal literally on my first try, with no prior knowledge whatsoever. The Extra stage was easy compared to other Extras, but it still had a decent difficulty, I'll give it that.
LoLK. Just didn't get into it....
>>15489505
I never thought about it but that sounds about right. I think >>15489235
hit the nail on the head- it's too clean and lost some of its personality in a way.
Anyone who says a Windows game has no idea what they're talking about.
I find UFO to be the weakest of his Windows games, but honestly saying any of his Windows games are actually bad seems extreme.
ZUN's worst game is PoDD, anyway.
HM doesn't count as a ZUN game.
My least favourite is PCB. Don't know why, it's a game with charms (the first time I've played, I said "wow beautiful spellcards. I'll never forget the Prismriver the fight") It's a game I just don't bother and have the patience to pay it again... It may be the characters, or the fact that it looks old... Yep, now I talk about EoSD, it's tied to that one... but I enjoy its characters, too bad I feel weird playing it, and thus, no longer play it
It's just me. They're great games.
IaMM: I just don't play it. I want to, obviously, I want to know the scenario, endings, etc but I hardly play it. I know, no fighting games, but it deserves a mention, an honest mention.
..just to name a few more, just a little. MoF, its continues system gargh, and there's Kanako, she's hard to me!
TD: it may be the weakest
>>15488176
I had no idea people shit on DDC so much, it's my favorite one. The point-of-collection system makes it super fun; it's such a clever risk-reward system that I find thrilling. I was upset when 15 came along and suddenly point items (and power items for the most part because of how quickly you power up) became 100% useless
Hard question.
>PC98
Not gonna count them, as ZUN was pretty inexperienced when he made em. PoDD, LLS, and MS were very fun and had great soundtracks though. Some of the HRtP songs that got remastered in DiPP were great too.
>EoSD
I actually really like the Reimu and Marisa drawings in this game. The cast, gameplay, and music were all very memorable. I'd assume part of this is due to it being the most popular game in the series, but regardless, it's very memorable and nostalgic.
>PCB
Kinda similar to EoSD, but less memorable overall. I do think it's had some of the biggest contributions to the story, due to introducing the Yakumos, Yuyuko, Youmu, and re-introducing Alice. The Yuyuko and Yukari fights were both very powerful as well.
>IN
Very fun game. I love the duo system, as it was a fun gimmick and made for some great banter with the dialogue. The music was also great. However, I've always felt a little disconnected from the Eintei gang. I like them all, but I don't really feel the same kind of passion for them as some other groups of characters. Aside from that, I had a blast playing it.
>PoFV
It doesn't exactly feel 100% like a mainline game, but it's really a blast. Great music, Eiki and Komachi are good characters, it reintroduced Yuuka, one of my favorite PC98 characters, and it felt like a huge improvement to PoDD. I really like it.
>MoF
My favorite game in the series. Bomb system and lack of grazing aside, it hit the nail right on the head. Excellent cast, probably the best overall OST in the series, memorable stages, and really entertaining patterns. The overall aesthetic of the game was incredible.
>SA
Similar deal with MoF. Everything was great. The wacky shot types and bombs were also a fun addition. Overall, it's in the same boat as MoF for me, but I like the fall mountain setting more than the underground setting, and the cast of SA a little less.
>UFO
I don't think it lived up to the previous two. It also didn't feel as refined, either. The cast was kinda weak (I often forget Shou exists) and the gameplay just felt odd. On the other hand, UFOs were a fun gimmick and the game had great music. It was also cool that every boss got a unique little thing to them (for example, Minamitsu's anchor and Unzan's fists). It also has my favorite illustration of Reimu in the series. Over all, not bad, but still pretty weak compared to the others.
>TD
Oh boy. Not sure where to start with this one. I guess I liked Futo and Miko? Youmu's charge attack was fun too. Besides that, I can't really think of any big things I liked about it. It was too easy, I didn't like the spirit gimmick, and the whole nether world or whatever thing when you die wasn't very fun. As usual, the music wasn't bad, but I don't think it reached the expectations ZUN made for us.
>DDC
At first, it almost felt like some kind of Chinese rip-off. Then I got to stage 5. After that moment, EVERYTHING was fantastic. Seija, Shinmyoumaru, the stages, the boss fights, the music, all excellent. Although, that doesn't make up for the shitty start. Waggysaggy was cute I guess, but the characters felt extremely shallow in the first 4 stages. The horrid guitar was also a huge turnoff. The patterns and shot types were fun, at least.
>LoLK
Mixed opinions everywhere. I guess I'll start with the biggest flaw; it was balanced for pointdevice mode. It just felt kind of shitty playing on legacy mode. Also the final boss fight was boring as hell. I applaud the effort to make it intense, as you could really feel Junko's anger, the music was very final boss-ish, and it was indeed difficult, but it just kind of did it all wrong. The patterns were challenging due to needing pixel-perfect accuracy, as opposed to having creative yet difficult patterns. Way too many circles. On the flip side, it had a ok cast and the music wasn't bad. It also did a good job with the space aesthetic. We'll certainly be remembering Hecatia and Clownpiece. I feel like Sagume can return for too.
TL;DR
TD is probably the weakest windows game. I didn't mention it, but the worst in general is probably SoEW.
>>15498788
It's practically only /jp/ and secondaries. Most players regard DDC has one of the strongest Touhou games in a long while.
Seeing as a lot of people here seem to like EoSD's cast, I think that the only reason why people find them memorable is because of how much attention the mansion has gotten in spin offs, print works, and fan works. Had ZUN not brought (most of) the characters in this game back for future projects, I think they would be as forgotten as most of PC-98 characters. Not to mention the only reason why people care about the midbosses, Rumia and Flandre is because they pretty much piggyback off the popularity of the rest of the cast.
Regarding the OP's question, I'd say that I find HRtP to be the worst for fairly obvious reasons. It has a surprisingly good soundtrack, though, and the remastered songs from MS's music room are fantastic.
>>15486587
I started with Subterranean Animism, and then I played Ten Desires.
I find TD to be a lot easier than SA. Even compared to the rest of the series I find TD to be the most underwhelming one.
>>15499810
>>Regarding the OP's question, I'd say that I find HRtP to be the worst for fairly obvious reasons.
Worse than SoEW, even?
HRtP was executed well enough for its brickbreak type of gameplay. SoEW was an actually buggy shmup with the least memorable soundtrack.
>>15500017
HRtP was jank as fuck, and least SoEW had good patterns and music.
>>15499810
I disagree. Sakuya and Patchouli both have eyecatching designs and room for fan interpretation. I think that in order to get popular, a touhou character requires two things. The first is a hook. Something that gets your attention. The second being room for fan interpretations. With Flandre, you've got your crazy vampire loli as the hook. From then on you've got plenty of room for fan work exploring her personality and life in the mansion.
EoSD got that fanwork in the first place because the cast had those things.
TD. It seems like he made the game too easy and then tried to balance that by giving you least amount of extra lives in the series.
I fucking hate the Phantasmagoria games and I clutch my ass at every release announcement hoping that it's not a Phantasmagoria of ________ ________
>>15500417
Why? They're fun as hell.
>>15501908
Because I'm stupid.
>>15501908
They are when you're playing with other people, but singleplayer leaves much to be desired. They should be spin offs instead of integer releases.
>>15503790
>singleplayer leaves much to be desired
They can be quite fun to play for score
>>15498974
I have a pretty similar opinion to this, honestly.
>EoSD
Pretty much the same opinion.
>PCB
Pretty much agree here as well. I thought the characters in PCB were overall weaker, although there were some memorable ones.
>IN
Same
>PoFV
Here I actually disagree. I never liked the VS system and having to tap all the time is slightly annoying, although you do get used to it eventually. I feel it's a weak entry that should've been a thx.x instead of a main game.
>MoF
While I wouldn't say it's my favorite, you're absolutely right about the cast, stages, and patterns. While the OST is really good I think placing it at the top is a mistake, I think IN had a stronger OST. Other than that, yeah I totally agree about the aesthetic too, the fall vibe is really nice. Only thing really wrong with MoF is the bomb system.
>SA
Honestly SA ranks pretty low with me. The almost universally disliked bomb system makes a return, shot type balance is terrible, the cast is boring with the exception of a few characters... The only thing I liked about SA was the fact that each character was able to team up like in IN, and the music was really good.
>UFO
I agree that the cast is weak(even weaker than SA, honestly). The only character I like is Captain Murasa. I have no idea what you mean by gameplay feeling odd, it felt like regular touhou to me. I honestly didn't like the music that much, I thought stage 1, boss 1, boss 4, boss 5 and boss 6 were good but everything else was forgettable. But I actually think UFO is better than SA. The shot type balance is much, much better, the old bomb system is back, the spring and sky aesthetic is really nice. It's one of the weaker entries in the series but it's definitely better than SA.
>TD
Basically agree. I thought trance mode was decent.
>DDC
Basically agree, but I also thought that some shot types were overly gimmicky.
>LoLK
Basically agree.
I thought LoLK was the weakest entry.
For me, IN>EoSD=PCB>MoF=UFO>SA>TD>DDC>>>LoLK
SA. I just despise every single shot type in the game. It feels like there's absolutely no reason to pick anything but the straight needles and they keep spinning around and around which I find a bit annoying. I just don't enjoy the patterns starting around stage 5 and the extra stage was hard, but it wasn't hard in the exciting way for me in ways I don't entirely understand.
>>15486653
I personally like eosds art style of reimu as well. Art style is very calm to the eye
>>15498974
I kinda agree I guess
>PC98
Haven't really played HRtP and SoEW. that much.
I like PoDD. But it's too blinky. it kinda hurts the eyes. Ellen a cute.
LLS and MS are. I like the art in there. The music is great taking in consideration hardware and such. Kurumi a cute.
>EoSD
It's pretty simple and I like it. Rumia a cute.
>PCB
The Art kinda decayed after EoSD. I played it again after a long time and the controls felt awful. probably the worst controls in the series. The music is good enough. It contributed a lot to the story. The extra extra-stage thing was interesting. youmu a cute.
>IN
the controls issue was fixed. The music is not as memorable but still ok. Art is good. The patterns start to become more elaborate. Mokou a cute
>PoFV
Fun game. Nice music. Haven't really played it a lot back then. It always crashed after Komachi's scenario, for some reason so I left it aside. Medicine a cute.
>MoF
Probably my favorite too.
The music is great. The controls feels good. The whole autumn theme is great. Kanako's theme is great. I even like the bomb system. Graing sound but no graze points it's still a bummer, but irrelevant. Shizuha a cute
>SA
Some shots are over-complicated but still ok.
The music is great, Satori theme is awesome.. Orin shows up a bit too much.
Parsee a cute.
>UFO
The cast is great, can't complain about that. I like the part where Nazrin comes back in the 5th stage. The music is good but not as memorable. The controls feel heavy and the bomb system is an abomination.
It is here where stuff starts to get over-complicated
Probably the worst in the series due to the bomb system alone.
Nazrin a cute.
>Fairy Wars
Freezing stuff. Cute fairies. Marisa as extra boss. I like this one.
Luna a cute.
>TD
The music is good enough. The spirits stuff suck but isn't as bad as the ufos. Not great but not bad either. Still pretty fun.The extra endings were a great idea .
Kyouko a cute.
>DDC
Honestly haven't played that much.
Music doesn't feel memorable enough. Bomb system is decent enough. Seija's gimmick is too gimmicky.
Waggysaggy a cute.
>LoLK
Haven't played that much yet. Been busy. Not sure if it is hard or I'm rusty. Or both.
Sagume a cute
>>15486587
Hm, might be fun thinking about it. I went through the entire series for the first time only, like, last month after all.
>PC98
I generally don't really like these (except for music-wise, even HRtP has some very good music...SOME) because of the way they play, which feels usually slow or clunky. Can't be helped. They're MUCH better than I was expecting, though.
>EoSD
The music sounds kind of weird.
Other than that, I guess it's just fine. I don't have any issues with it or particular fondness for it.
>PCB
A very good Touhou game. I don't get the cherry blossom system but whatever. This was the first Touhou game I tried to play at all. I like the last two characters from the main story (like, a LOT; two of my absolute favorites) but the rest don't really matter. Stage 4 is really hard...
>IaMS
Controls really took some getting used to but it was alright once I did. I really hated the controls at first, though, and that was even after changing the scheme from the baffling default controls.
Storywise and characterwise great fun. ZUN's not alone on the music here but the other composers did GREAT, with Suika/the game's theme being one of my favorites. The composers for the fighting games really pull their weight.
>IN
I really don't like the gameplay system of switching characters on shift, but that's mainly since this means the loss of the classic Reimu A, and therefore homing. I like homing, damn it.
Great, intense music. Kind of a fun story. I may not like the "team" setup from a gameplay perspective but from a story perspective it led to some of the funniest and most entertaining writing. Felt like an "epic" Touhou game, with you fighting the series' heroes and racing against time to solve the incident. Even has a twist where the original final boss isn't the actual problem-maker. Overall, pretty cool, just wish I liked actually PLAYING it more.
>PoFV
I really don't care for the gameplay (though I like how it's a throwback to PoDD). It's also super easy and levels go by very quickly, meaning I forgot almost any music featured in the game (I listened later and found a BUNCH of tracks in it that I love; Fate of Sixty Years might be my favorite in the series). Conversely, the extra stage is cruelty buttfuck mean. It's unbelievable how fucked it is.
The story is one of my favorites. I like how it's a non-incident and I like Shikieiki calling out everyone on their shit. Also re-introduces Yuuka, my big favorite. Cirno's story made me weirdly sad. Actually most of the story is weirdly sad with its focus on the inevitability of death, and how some kind of MASSIVE tragedy happens every 60 years in the outside world, causing a beautiful but sobering event in Gensokyo.
>StB
Wow, fun! Hard, though. I can't get very far in the photography games at all. Music is nothing to write home about.
>MoF
Easily forgotten in a lot of ways, but not bad at all. The Gensokyo The Gods Loved and several other tracks are phenomenal.
>SWR
One of my favorite soundtracks. Cool story that's completely canon. Tenshi is an interesting protagonist. Gameplay is much improved since IaMS. It's not exactly my cup of tea, but I had fun.
>SA
I didn't like it very much, for similar reasons as to why I don't really like IN. The game is also FUCKING hard. GREAT music (one of the best soundtracks), and fun patterns, but HARD.
The story isn't particularly special but just like IN I like how the team systems make for fun dialogue. Also, the Underground/Old Hell opened up a lot of interesting lore things. Satori is a huge shit, but it's fun seeing such an annoying character and understanding perfectly why nobody likes her. Something I find odd: Koishi isn't really like she is in the rest of the series here. She's more...normal? She also is only slightly creepy, as opposed to being extremely unsettling/terrifying.
too long, need another post
>>15486587
>>15507218
and to finish
>UFO
Man.
This is the one. This is the one I like the least.
I like the soundtrack, actually. I think the game isn't too hard (and am confused as to people saying it's one of the hardest), but the gimmick sure is dumb as hell. I also pretty much despise the entire cast save for Kogasa, who not-coincidentally has nothing to do with the story or the other characters. The best thing about UFO is Kogasa and she is a SUPER saving grace, but this is still my bottom. I dunno, it's probably the cast that really ticks me off about it. Fuck these fucking Buddhists and their awful, race-traitor grand bitch leader.
Heian Alien sure is nice.
>DS
Fun! More fun that StB. Still hard. I kind of wish that Hatate was unlocked either immediately or early on. It's a second gameplay style that's locked from you until you beat the game, basically. That's weak. I haven't beaten the game so, no alt gameplay for me. That's pretty lame. Music is still nothing to write home about.
>GFW
Fun! Man, these spin off games are fun. Kinda hard, but I found it enjoyable. Also cute. Not much to say about it. A tiny fun game. Music's just fine.
>TD
Now this is a weird one post-UFO, since the game is OBVIOUSLY the easiest, has an EVEN WORSE gimmick, but I adore the cast and story and love pretty much all the music. I guess it has a small edge up with gameplay for me ONLY because it's easier, and I am bad at danmaku games.
Has Youmu again. Love Youmu. Yuyuko-sama too.
>HM
Man this game kinda blows. Fun to play as Futo but that's really about where my compliments end. What happened here?
The story is neat and Kokoro is great, but MAN. Music, gameplay, dropped the ball. Sprites are goddamn beautiful, yes, but sometimes also weirdly service-y.
>DDC
My (shared) favorite mainline game. It is good with basically everything and I can find very few flaws. No gimmicks, solid gameplay that isn't super hard and definitely isn't easy, very interesting story and antagonists, I like the cast even if most of them aren't really related since I like their designs and like how them being involved is just a matter of course. Fantastic soundtrack. I just plain love this game.
Seija is great. Reverse Ideology is genius, and not just because of how it sounds when flipped.
>ISC
My favorite Touhou game. Yes, in some part because of Seija, but also because it's SO FUN. The cheat items, contextualized with the protagonist being a shit cheater, make it just fucking joyous to play through, especially for me who is weak with danmaku. Fun to think of ways out of the spell cards and clear shit. Fun story. Interesting how the spellcard rules are bent to tackle the true antagonist of the previous game. Fuck yeah, amanojaku
>ULiL
I really adore this game's story, and Sumireko's torment in her story mode. Also has one of Reimu's fucking BEST "hero" moments (which are rare, since I wouldn't exactly call Reimu a "hero", per se). Gameplay is so much better than in HM. Music is better, too, although I found most of the arrange soundtracks to be disappointing (though I would've liked hearing them in the story, since by the end the original music was getting stale). Still love Futo.
>LoLK
My (shared) favorite mainline game. Once again, this is probably because my weak ass play means the systems unique to this title work greatly in my favor. This is the only mainline and "normal" game in the series where I can reach the stage 5 boss on Normal and actually make some progress. Pointdevice and the philosophy behind it are neat and refreshing, though it can lead to HORRIBLE frustration.
Absolutely my favorite story in the series and maybe my favorite cast overall. It's an interesting, twisty story filled with implications, bearing a sympathetic protagonist who you basically hook up with at the very end, and hinting at much more to come. Also features CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, something Touhou doesn't have much of at all. Reisen, YES.
I look forward to more Touhous.
>>15507218
>>Other than that, I guess it's just fine. I don't have any issues with it or particular fondness for it.
actually I'll say one thing about this
I admire ZUN's balls to go in a new direction and "technically" wipe the slate clean. His reasoning behind danmaku and the spellcard system are fascinating. Very fucking cool afterword with this game, and the whole package explains so much about 2hu
Phantasmagoria games a shit. PC can decide whether you play for 2 minutes or 20.
SoEW a bit less of a shit, but still a shit. No focus no bueno. It's a little forgiven for being ZUN's actual first shmup but still.
>>15507218
>>>IaMS
IaMP
...sage
>>15507220
plus
>>>ISC
Has an amazing soundtrack. ZUN outdid himself for ISC, in spite of it being a spin off about a not particularly popular ANTAGONIST being a DICK
>>15507236
>PC can decide whether you play for 2 minutes or 20
No, not really. The AI dies on a timer. For example, in PoFV on lunatic, the AI will die at about 1:30 for stages 1-5, 3:30 for stages 6-8. The death timer goes down for later rounds (like if you die on a stage and have to face that enemy again). The AI can get trapped and die prematurely, but this doesn't happen often unless you're playing as Aya or Medicine.
PoDD has a similar death timer system, but I'm not as familiar with it.
>>15486587
>PC-98
Good games besides the first one and PoDD.
MS is definitely the best one
>EoSD
A really nostalgic and almost everyone's first 2hu game. It gets shat on a lot because people still use the SDM as an endless source of secondary material but the game itself is pretty solid.
>PCB
Another solid game, but it gets pretty slow and a bit bland after stage 3.
Phantasm is goatatty though.
>IN
Great soundtrack, ZUN really outdid himself here. The game itself is pretty good too with a lot of extras but I just don't like the time system.
The constant switching also makes the characters really wonky to control. Other than that it's quite the game.
>MoF
I just don't like this one.
I don't know if it's the autumn theme, or the cast, or the bomb system.
I sometimes forget it exists andSanae is the worst character
>SA
Great game. Great cast. Great theme. Great music.
It's one of the strongest entries and definitely deserves its place among everyone's favourite.
The experimental bomb system is still an issue but it's been improved a lot from MoF.
>UFO
It was a good game.
People shit on it because they hate the UFO system but it's not nearly as annoying as they want you to believe. Plus the bosses still drop life pieces so you could completely ignore the ufos and still get lives.
It had some bland chars like Ichirin and Shou, but overall I liked the cast.
>TD
A weak entry.
Definitely not the best of the bunch, but it's still playable.
The "system" just feels like an extra bomb to be honest and the cast was overall really bland.
>DDC
An amazing return to the classics.
The first stage is kinda eeh, but as soon as you get past waggy, you get a great experience that's nothing but pure fun.
The "gimmick" this time feels SO natural and rewarding, it's definitely my favourite mechanic in the entire series.
People dislike the music because they get triggered by a few track with ZUN's synth guitar but it's really really well composed and one of my top soundtracks. Stage 5 is just beautiful.
The antagonist is actually interesting and the cast is really well designed, even if they don't have that "connection" like previous games had.
My favourite game.
>LoLK
I really gave this game a try.
I tried to learn how to effectively use the gimmick, I tried to git gud, I tried to play on legacy mode, I tried to like this game but it was just not fun.
The game is supposed to be a mainline game but the gimmick this time is so forced that you can't help but feel like you are playing a photo spin-off.
I know that ZUN took IWBTG as inspiration, but he went too far with the idea.
>but you can play legacy mode
The game is clearly designed around pointdevice and you can clearly see this when you break the entire thing with Sanae's bomb.
What else. The game gets really boring after the first stages and when you get to the final boss and you go "oh boy this gonna be gud", you get the most dull and uninspired danmaku ever.
>b-but it fits the character
If the entire gameplay has to suffer in order to tell some backstory, then it's just trash. I'm sorry but that's not good game design.
Finally, the cast is just either boring like the moon rabbits or "wacky" in a bad way like Clownpiece dressed as the american flag or Hecatia wearing a weird t-shirt.
Overall this game feels really rushed, no wonder ZUN took a break after he released it.
As you can see my favourite games would be: DDC, SA and MS.
Some weak entries: TD and MoF
Mediocre: LoLK
>>15487264
>Why mix danmaku with puzzles? If you only have one soloution then it loses value and replayability.
Dude, what? The whole point of ISC is that basically every single situation has many, many different approaches. It's not "only one solution", not at ALL. Not even if you're trying to capture the cards without using cheats.
I'm wondering if you ever even played it, saying such nonsense. The game even starts by giving you four options (three items, or the option of trying without using the items) and increases the options as you continue, eventually adding in weird shit like sub items too for even MORE variety.
I still have yet to play 12; 13 and 14 but I can say that PoFV is not only my least favorite but not even good at all.
>>15507906
Of course a memeposter would hold that opinion.
>>15508397
>he doesn't like what I like
I thought people didn't get triggered here by something as simple as this.
Also
>not enjoying memes on the internet
My favorites are EoSD, UFO and Highly Responsive to Prayers.
I dislike any of those "versus" editions where two players danmaku in a splitscreen.
I believe there were two in PC-98 and another one in the new series, not sure.
They were not fun at all.
Shoot the Bullet is also a really nice concept, I have fun.
But getting stuck is way more frustrating than it is with regular games, because you repeat the SAME few-seconds task over and over, instead of replaying everything and breathing a bit of fresh air before repeating the challenging bits..
>>15509176
>Highly Responsive to Prayers
What's wrong with you?
What's with people not liking the Phantasmagoria games? They were pretty interesting relative to the other games. Then again, most of the other games bore me and I prefer Fairy Wars and the photography games, as well as the pre-MoF windows games. Zun is horrible at making interesting stages.
>>15512507
Are you me?
I guess some people just don't like the randomness and it seems pointless to them.
>>15512507
Well
>>15512553
this
Honestly the biggest issue I have is that it's not very fun playing single player.
>>15511786
It is a pretty good arkanoid clone. Most people complaint about it for not being a shmup.
Honestly the only real weak game on the series is Hopeless Masquerade.
Even SoEW is pretty good once you get into it.
>>15511786
>What's wrong with you?
My problem is I am not a filthy casual and played from TH 1 upwards instead of going for the retarded notion of "play EoSD (or even PCB) first!", so I can analyze every game with a lot more of context.
I am very sorry for having an unsoiled opinion about your fitting-in hobby.
>>15512936
>not a filthy casual
You thought that there were three Phantasmagoria games
>>15512947
But there are. Phantasmagoria of _____ is coming out as Touhou 16, currently a work in progress, just you wait!
I pulled that out my ass, but I can only hope.
>>15512507
They should have been X.X games, not mainline ones.
>>15512936
*tips fedora*
>>15512965
No, you are a retard that thought there were 3 Po games.
Come people, the phantasmagoria games are great! I enjoy the three of them.
1. PoDD (my favourite of the PC-98 era)
2. Seihou 2 (it's just nice. I particulary love its OST. I also play it many times)
3. PoFV (whoops the least one I've enjoyed)
I can't wait for the next phantasmagoria game to come!
TD was likely the weakest despite introducing one of my favorite characters.
UFO had some ups and downs, but overall more downs. I find the flying saucer minigame annoying more than anything, and at least half the spellcards feel uninspired.
>>15512936
Dude
whether you play TH1 first or TH15, HRtP is still a crappy arkanoid clone made by an amateur with some good music, mostly whatever music. It has almost no story and very little characterization and controls poorly, with a lot of things coming down to luck (of course, given the kind of game it is)
>>15513916
The only bad thing with that game it's the difficulty (it gets frustating). Everything else is nice.
Just a game, a silly game, asiple game as arcade oldies (don't you like arcade oldies?) An Arkanoid mixed with weird stuff. Is that so wrong? I've had fun with it!
>>15513958
It's fine if you have fun with it but it's still pretty bad.
I think it's fine that it's bad, even, and would say considering ZUN is a self-taught musician first above all else it's pretty neat that he made that game, and he did a rather okay job.
But that's only in consideration. Objectively, it's quite lame and I sure didn't have any fun.
>>15513970
How is HRtP bad? The only bad thing about it are a few glitches with ying yang ball. I would even argue that it innovates in the genre and gives it a lot of style for what it is.
>>15514012
It's not fun is the biggest issue.
Aiming is not as reliable as it should be, nor is how things bounce.
Dodging bullets is actually pretty cool. It's cool how you can deal with them (such as slapping them out of the way).
Movement does not feel good.
Music is mostly nothing particularly noteworthy making the levels (which can get long, as per genre standard) really feel like they drag.
Brick breakers are inherently nothing great, this was definitely not a great one on top of that.
>>15513916
>arkanoid clone
You either haven't played Arkanoid or HRtP.
It's not a clone in anything other than "bouncing ball hitting bricks".
It's more like an Arkanoid evolution.
It has way more smooth controls, there isn't a pit for the ball to fall and there is some danmaku and "fighting" commands to make it interesting.
Besides, it is the first game of all and it's very interesting to see how Touhou didn't have a clear direction back then; it wasn't even a SHMUP.
If you look at it, TH 1 2 3 were all different genres involving bullet dodging and until Lotus Land Story came out, you couldn't characterize Touhou "a series of SHMUP games".
Personally I like this notion, exploring several different genres. While I do enjoy the SHMUPs, I would also be glad if ZUN had taken the more experimental way and didn't repeat his formulas so much.
So, I was just playing HRtP again, and.... damm it's annoying. I don't know how but my bombs activate by themselves! I guess that's what you can call wacky gameplay
>>15486587
as much as i want to like them, i find it hard to get into EoSD. The fact that there is no focus bubble completely messes up my gameplay. This also applies for Mystic Square, but the main problem there was the flashy particles flying everywhere making it hard to dodge, not to mention the bullshit stage 4, even stage 2 has some dumb nonsense in it. Lotus Land Story is more or less excused from this because the backgrounds were less distracting and gave more contrast to the bullets and was really easy in general. I also personally am not a fan of the Phantasmagoria-style games, they just arent my cup of tea. PoDD is probably my least favorite due to the fact that I have probably only played it like 3 times many years ago.
>>15525407
Reimu's ribbon on her back is her hitbox, there are also very easily downloaded mods to put the focus bubble in.
>>15525446
This. I read about the hitbox's position on the wiki before playing and it took me no more than one play to get used to it.
I get irrationally buttfrustrated whenever people come up with the hitbox excuse for skipping EoSD.
>>15525407
I don't know how LLS had less distracting backgrounds. But then again I have memories of plaid backgrounds raping my eyes, even if it was only one stage. Who even makes plaid backgrounds?
Ten Desires and UFO disappointed me. They didn't have the charm of the previous games. Double-Dealing Character was a good one, and marked a return to what made Touhou games so much fun. Trying to chain bonuses to stock up on spell cards and lives was a lot of fun, and I almost lost my shit when I met Imaizumi Kagerou. I have a thing for wolf girls, so...
>>15512507
but I like the three of them (yes the kioh gotoh too)
>>15514026
anon, HRtP have one of the heaviest and pretty forgotten background of the seriessee reimu bomb
>all these people saying DDC had lame forgettable characters nevermind the fish lady or the floating head chick or the cute werewolf within the first three stages
>all these people saying UFO was super forgettable and the shitter with the tongue-umbrella somehow was the game's only saving grace
Seriously?
Ten Desires is the Kirby Squeak Squad of Touhou games. It's not a bad game, it's just a bad Touhou game. It has a gimmick just as bad as UFO's, a cast as weak as DDC's, difficulty as low as IN's, and probably the weakest music in the Franchise outside of True Administrator and Futisawa from Sado. Also Youmu is the only interesting shot.
TD is just weak in general.
>>15540139
I feel as if UFO wasn't particularly exciting until stage 4. But after stage 4 is just incredible. I don't really get the hate for the gimmick either, since it's just a way to gather lives/bombs/points.
>>15540385
>a cast as weak as DDC'
>DDC
>weak
eh?
for that matter
>TD
>weak
And TD is without a doubt easier than IN, man.
>>15540576
I just thought it was annoying
beep...
beep,,,
beep...
WOOWOOWOOWOOWOO
>>15540645
>only two notable characters, and the most forgettable EX boss to ever be made
>not weak
TD is the easiest game in the series by far
>>15506476
my niga
>>15540655
I like the puppy, Seiga amuses me, and Kogasa is in.
Yoshika is a crazy happy zombie, though, which is not my thing.
Mamizou has become more interesting since her first appearance. Admittedly her first appearance wasn't really special.
>>15540960
I called DDC's cast weak, sorry for the confusion. Miko and Mamizou are memorable, and Futo is for memes
>>15540969
>Futo is for memes
Futo appears in HM and ULiL and has her personality developed there. She gets an article in SoPM where she's studied even further. She's (maybe) based on a historic person, and her Touhou backstory can easily be connected with that person's.She's distantly related to the Moriya.
Futo is only for memes if you choose to ignore the wealth of official material devoted to her. More material than some much-beloved classic characters, in fact.
Agreed on DDC, however, even if I'm not the guy you were replying to. I wish the first game in years to go back to the original "youkai doing youkai things" theme didn't just skirt said youkai and their activities. I want more Banki.
>DDC's cast
>weak
Is this a new meme?
I'm sorry you can't appreciate good designs if they are not wacky and memetic.
>>15541061
it's really the "only two bosses have anything to do with the plot" bit, and Raiko easily being the most forgettable Windows EX Boss
>>15541095
>It's forgettable because she's not related to other character
I hate this shit
I guess Mamizou was forgettable too before she appeared in FS huh?
>>15507383
Funny, MoF and TD are some of my favorites. I feel like the atmosphere in both of them is pretty nice. On the other hand, I completely hate the early stages of SA and feel like they are the most boring thing ever. SA and LoLK are the only two games I have not yet 1 ccd on normal.
>>15540969
>Futo is for memes
come on, man
Futo is genuinely radical.
>>15540385
>IN
>Easy
what's with this meme?
EoSD, PCB, PoFV and MoF are all easier than IN
>>15541306
I did 1cc SA but I didn't feel happy about it at all. I'm not exactly sure why, maybe it's because I wasn't enjoying it.
>>15541555
I almost beat IN on Lunatic (lost at Eirin). I tend to got my ass kicked around level 2 at Lunatic on other games.
heck no Kanako is tough
>>15541879
Yeah, the game just doesn't feel fun to me for some reason. I feel like it doesn't get any enjoyable until the 4th stage and by then I'm already bored out of my mind. Especially Parsee is boring as hell. I do want to 1cc the game though so that I can atleast try to beat and deserve mai waifu.
>>15542128
Weirdly enough, it was the opposite for me. Well, at least I had the most fun at Yuugi's stage. Then it's a slow spiral into sadness. I don't like the extra stage at all either. I don't mind getting my ass kicked, but it's just a pain.
