Most idol groups enjoy success by building on the fantasy that the girls are "attainable." That's why they aren't allowed to have boyfriends. Taking this to its logical conclusion, would an idol group succeed if nudity were part of the performance?
No, nobody wants a slut.
That's not a very logical conclusion.
>>15002216
It's in line with the reasoning. If the girls are marketed based on the audience wanting to bang them then an idol group could set itself apart with the gimmick that the girls undress or wear outfits that expose them.
>>15002266
>It's in line with the reasoning.
No it isn't.
>>15002179
>>15002266
You're really dumb. Otaku also want them to be the only ones to be privy to the idols' nudity. Nudity is only special if its exclusive, if everyone can see them naked then they're just whores.
Aren't those AV idols?
>>15002316
So like American pop stars then.
>>15002412
kek.
>>15002179
Even if hypothetically a manager or executive wanted to do this, would the group get the necessary exposure (no pun intended) to make it profitable? Let's say you had a group like AKB48. Realistically the group would be smaller than that but for sake of argument let's use them as an example. Ok, so they have the same type of gimmick of catchy pop songs, cute outfits, and stage choreography. Standard stuff. Except now you want to add in a new gimmick where the girls either strip during the show or wear costumes that, again for the sake of argument, display their breasts. We'll start from there and take an honest look at the possible issues here.
The positives here are that such a thing would make waves and might generate interest based on controversy alone. This group would certainly be setting themselves apart from all the others out there, which from a marketing perspective is wonderful. Plus, AV idols are a thing and some J-Pop stars have gone in that direction so it's not ENTIRELY unthinkable that someone would consider combining the two. Mr. Music Executive likes what he hears so far.
But a few things spring to mind that complicate this plan.
First, they're singers. They're meant to sell records. As in audio only. Your group's gimmick is essentially irrelevant outside of their concerts. I suppose you can include nude photos in the album but when people are just listening to the music none of that really matters to them. In other words, the group still has to compete with all the non-nude ones with their music. You won't be able to get away with using nudity to cover up failings on the talent front.
Second, because of that, now your pool of performers shrinks. You can't just hire girls who are good performers or girls willing to perform naked. You have to find girls who are good performers AND willing to perform naked. Not impossible, I'm sure, but it's a complication.
Third, and this is the big one, where are the concerts going to be? You need venues that will tolerate this. I don't know how Japan is culturally with this kind of thing but it might shrink your audience. Would this count as "adult" entertainment? If so, would there be an age restriction for attendance? Would you be able to find places to host events? What good is the gimmick if it shrinks your group's appeal?
Maybe I'm wrong and people would flock to it just for the novelty factor. And yes, it doesn't have to be inherently slutty since tasteful nude performances are a thing though I don't know if "tasteful" and "J-Pop idol" mix well.
I'll be the first one to say that I don't think such a thing is totally impossible just for the fact that I think most modern music has gone crazy and nothing really surprises me anymore. But it's not a slam dunk of an idea. It's a concept that comes with a lot of risk.
>>15003028
You're wrong in that it's just about music. Photoshoots and gravure are involved too.
Besides, people/fans would readily post images if one of their favorite idol's tits popped out accidentally on stage. They don't give a fuck. Idols only had to be a good role model for women. The otaku fans would probably gangbang the idols if given a chance.
Yes, BiS.
In b4 their pretentious wannabe "fans" pretending they aren't idols but ~artists~. No, they're idols too, they call themselves so, press also referes to them as an idol group.
>>15002179
Your mom tried already
>>15002179
This should be fine and I have no quarrels with it.
>>15004277
Hm. If that's the case then wouldn't it give more credibility to OP's question? I'm no J-idol expert so I don't know how audiences would react to something so...direct? The sexual component is always a thing with performers but its often shielded with plausible deniability. Has there ever been a pop star anywhere who cut all pretense like that and revealed what everyone was already thinking?
>>15002179
Even if I try it's really hard for me to like idol groups. The performances and stage dancing is way to frilly and girly.
I don't know how you guys put up with it and watch stuff like Love Live and IM@S without hesitation
>>15003028
>First, they're singers. They're meant to sell records. As in audio only.
I think this point is arguable. Wasn't one of the early selling points of AKB48 that they would do lots of small weekly or monthly shows to build up stronger relationships with the fans? Is there any research that shows what portion of idol revenues come from live shows vs record sales? A lot of idol fans will buy multiple copies of an album or single not because they like the audio, but to get extra tickets for special events or limited merchandise. At times it seems like record sales are secondary to live event or merch sales and with a nude group, naturally there would be a bigger focus on DVD/BD and photobooks.
>>15002323
AV idol idols.
Holy fuck I want to see this so bad now.
>>15009148
There are other kinds of idols, other kinds of dancing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaNcXON8Oz4
I recently started watching IM@S Cinderella Girls. The story of them learning the ropes of the idol business is pretty engaging.
>>15009148
>The performances and stage dancing is way to frilly and girly.
>I don't know how you guys put up with it and watch stuff like Love Live and IM@S without hesitation
Do you not like girls or something?
>>15009586
>>15009148
>>15005718
>>15002179
>>15002212
http://webm.land/media/KL3n.webm
>>15011619
What's that from? It just looks awkward. Like they were wrapped in toilet paper and aren't really into it. Are they actually idols?
I think for something like OP's suggestion to work the idols would have to maintain the "standard" idol style to balance the extreme of the new gimmick. The same overly cutesy, fun loving, friendly demeanor and never actually acknowledging that they'd be naked. Almost like they don't even notice.
Maybe going full nude is missing the point though. Idols have a particular style about them. Their outfits and uniformity are a huge deal so maybe just build the outfits to promote wardrobe malfunctions? Or design them so that they're still "cute" costumes but openly expose the girls?
Either way, this is as much about marketing as anything else. It COULD work but it would need a lot of care to cultivate it as a legitimate thing without making it look sleazy. I see a lot of AV idol talk here. What's the impression of that in Japan? Do they view them the same way we view porn stars? I think for this hypothetical nude idol group to work it can't look like lowbrow porn. There has to be something "authentic" to anchor to.
>>15012144
The problem is thinking of pop idols when saying idols. There are gravure idols and nudes, just get them to perform songs and it's the same thing with no problem. The particular type of idol OP means is that way because that's their particular thing.
Also given Japanese culture, you could probably have topless idols all the time and not really have them though of as anything but "those topless idols." It's not as if they never do lewd dance moves or wear skimpy clothing, but more importantly, it's not as if they think nude = slut.
The real problem is idols being sluts anyway. It's one thing for an idol to be in love with someone or have a boyfriend. It's another to have reporters stalking her and taking pictures of her leaving her boyfriends house in the morning or some sort of sex tape getting leaked.
>>15012144
>What's that from?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ovn3n_akb48-%E7%AF%A0%E7%94%B0%E9%BA%BB%E9%87%8C%E5%AD%90-%E5%B0%8F%E5%B6%8B%E9%99%BD%E8%8F%9C-i-m-sure-live_music
Higher quality than my deleted post
A different perfomance
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3uqoyh_i-m-sure-1080p_music
>>15012144
The best would be if they change outfits throughout the show, not all of them nude. There should be a sense of anticipation and surprise. Imagine a song where they come out in sailor outfits and the next song is a similar outfit but with holes for their boobs cut out. Or even mid-song where they perform in matching bathing suits and then in synch with the music they rip their tops off and keep singing without missing a beat. It would make one hell of an impression.
>>15003028
>Your group's gimmick is essentially irrelevant outside of their concerts.
Huh? You used AKB as your example and that's really far from the truth in their case. Popularity comes from the girls, their characters and interactions with fans. Occasionally a song will hit it really big with the media but the majority of CDs are sold because of whatever event gimmick they have on at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0BRrq8QWU
>>15013534
Holy shit, this is already a thing? Is it popular in Japan? I'm legit curious about the details here.
>>15014181
>JAV
>>15014181
It's a parody, doofus. They're all JAV actresses from Caribbean (that's the studio name), the video is just a rip from one of their DVDs.
>>15015301
Parody or not, I like that there's something happening in this thread beyond just hypotheticals and wishful thinking. OP's point is getting stronger and stronger. I think the only sticking point now is if it would generate mainstream appeal.
>>15015718
I just read OP's post again because of yours and now I understand it less than the first time I read this thread.
>>15015931
My understanding is that OP is asking if an idol group (AKB48 was used as an example) could be successful if nudity were part of the performance.
>>15016111
Would nudity be worse than >>15012939 ?
It's Japan after all. Nudity isn't demonized like in the west.
It would probably have a negative impact on them to not wear cute outfits like >>15012144 said. It'd be better if they wore translucent outfits.
On the other hand there are already nude modelling idols. It wouldn't be too much to have them sing too.
It's kind of funny because there are voice actors who sing lewd songs from anime and ero games, but having them wear some sort of open top outfit might be over the line.
>>15016477
>On the other hand there are already nude modelling idols. It wouldn't be too much to have them sing too.
Since we have video evidence in this thread of that exact thing the question is no longer "is it possible" but now "would it be popular". My guess is it it CAN be if managed to exacting standards.
>>15016626
No, it's just some porn video. It's different to have people actually sing in a serious context as opposed to some porn thing.
>>15016626
Anything in JAV is "possible", the whole sokkuri genre is built on taking actresses that look like popular people and making them do porn parodies of what they normally do.
Next thing you'll say is that those " crazy Japanese variety shows" where you have to recognize your mom by fucking her are "viable", when they're just elaborate situation-based porn.
>>15018515
You don't have to go that far, though. It's not like there isn't a trend toward hyper sexualized music. A girl group performing otherwise wholesome routines topless is not more outrageous than half the shit in American pop music.
>>15016477
>It's Japan after all. Nudity isn't demonized like in the west.
Uhh
This isn't the 80s bubble era anymore
>>15019336
pop music isn't all idols though
>>15019407
What I mean is that music is so full of overly sexualized personalities that a topless idol group would barely register as out of the ordinary.
>>15022382
Maybe. I think Lady Gaga would still raise eyebrows if she took her top off mid-show. It's not a perfect analogy.
>>15023731
No, but it's a gradual effect marked by a handful of significant pioneers. Elvis was considered lewd in his day. Madonna was controversial as hell in the 80s. Neither of them are thought of as anything but "normal" today. If you dropped Lady Gaga into 1950s America she'd be burned at the stake. But she can do what she does today because of all the pioneers that chomped away at the bit little by little. A topless Idol group would just be another notch in the long line of artists who push boundaries and change the culture.
>>15025652
Since when was Madonna thought of as normal?
Plain nudity is boring. I could see a lewd or risque Idol group working, but not plain nude.
>>15026354
Nobody complains that Madonna is ruining the youth anymore.
>>15031015
That's because she is old and the youth doesn't care about her. Now its like, who was that slut that used to be liked? Miley Cyrus? I don't really follow but some slut from Disney, you probably know who I mean.
Didn't Alanis Morissette sing naked in the 90s? Nobody cared. A risque Idol group wouldn't create a moral panic. It would just be another marketing gimmick.
>>15031642
The subject isn't the general populance, it's a specific group of waifu nerds.
This question would be best posted to the idol threads, since you could directly ask fans how they would feel about it instead of speculating.
>>15031914
I would disagree that idols are solely the province of animu nerds. My understanding is that it's a multimillion dollar industry that sells out concerts. The question isn't if some people would be into it but would it be actually viable. Even those incest porn gameshows would have SOME people into it if they were real. That's neither here or there.
>>15036759
Idol otaku are not necessarily anime otaku. They're more like the people in /tv/.
>>15036835
Look at his point, though. He's just saying that Idol groups are mainstream and so any potential gimmicks would only be worthwhile if that mainstream appeal can be maintained.
>>15041453
Honestly, the gimmick would get old fast
>>15048219
I agree. I won't deny that it might be kind of big at first but it'll be a flash in the pan type fad. Once everyone sees it and gets their jollies they'll move on. Hell, isn't that what happens to these idol groups anyway? There's tons of turnover.
>>15002179
something further than SDN48?
