If the moon people see everything from earth as impure, why would Yorihime call upon earthly gods?
How exactly are gods related to the whole purity thing between the moon and the earth?
>>14989744
It is a buddhist concept of purity, I believe.
What she does not realize is that most gods are really flawed characters, or that the term "god" is very cheap when it comes to asian pantheons.
Even freaking Amaterasu had to hide like a little bitch inside a cave because Susanoo was on a rampage.
>>14989766
>or that the term "god" is very cheap when it comes to asian pantheons
Probably more to do with the fact that the western concept of a god doesn't even exist in eastern religions (for the most part). A better translation would've been "spirit".
Nuke the moon
The aftermath is secondary
>>14989744
>everything from earth as impure
Not exactly, stuff like ghosts and divine spirits are still considered extremely pure due to the fact they don't have to deal with the concept of life and death which in the Moonscum's eyes is "impureness" they always talk about.
In fact everyone watched Yuyuko in awe when she got to the capital since Lunarians aren't exactly 100% pure either.
What I don't really understand is why drinking the Elixir taboo, shouldn't it be the opposite? Or does the Elixir grant you eternal "life", thus making you eternally impure?
Seriously just nuke the fucking Moon and their stupid bullshit.
It's not that 'everything from Earth is impure'; remember, Yuyuko and Youmu didn't bring any impurity with them. (Though whether the Netherworld counts as an 'Earthly realm' is up for debate I guess.) Also remember that those 'Earthly' gods were among the original founders of the Lunar Capital.
The short answer is that gods, like ghosts, are pure.
However, this raises an interesting question. Are all gods pure? For instance, take the rather diversified Moriya crew. Presumably Suwako is pure, but what about Kanako, who was originally human? Or Sanae, who's a deified living human? Does merely being or becoming a god remove one's earthly impurity, or are only the Innumerable Gods naturally pure?
Is it correct that Life somehow started on the moon (millions of years ago), and earth was used as an exile for moon people before anything living was on it, therefore making all life on earth having it's origin from the moon?
I read that a long time ago once but I can't remember if it was factual.
>>14989989
My thoughts about the Watatsukis are pretty impure.
>>14989744
>why would Yorihime call upon earthly gods?
She does not. She call upon native Lunarian gods.
>>14990071
>>14990093
The Lunar Capital was founded by gods and maybe some humans who came from the Earth. No life is native to the moon (that's why it's a pure land), so there can't be any gods native to it.
>>14990071
As far I know some grumpy chink and his group got tired of Earth's concept of life and death and went to the Moon.
Now they see the Earth more like a prison than anything and in fact think the biggest punishment they can give is sending someone there, like Kaguya.
Kaguya too acted like a shitty Lunarian at the beginning but living there for a while with an eldery couple made her change her mind and now like Earth more than the Moon.
>>14990128
>>14990135
>lunarians came from the earth
>the ayy lmaos arent actually ayy lmaos
where were you when memes was kill
>>14990157
In a thread full of secondaries, apparently.
>>14989982
By acknowledging a mortal fear, one become impure.
>>14990202
>>14990157
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/Third_Chapter
>The history of life is a history of conflict. And winners dictate how history is recorded. The Earth is a world of impurity because it is this sort of blood-stained world. Living things tend to live on forever, but the impurity stole away their longevity. It was a world of the short-lived.
>Today, Earth has become a place where almost nothing can live for more than a hundred years.
>However, there was a sage who realized that the impurity was stealing life from all living things. It is said that while watching the full moon hanging in the sky over the ocean, this sage became determined to free themselves from the impure Earth.
>As if moving from living in the sea to the earth, or from the earth to the sky, this sage left the Earth and took up residence on the moon. This sage is the founder of the lunar capital, the lord of the night and of the lunar capital, Tsukuyomi.
The >>14990135 story of Kaguya being an annoying moonscum bitch but eventually becoming a nice Earthling is also there somehwere in CiLR.
>>14990275
I know just who to call then.
>>14989982
>Or does the Elixir grant you eternal "life", thus making you eternally impure?
I guess
>>14990128
>No life is native to the moon
and the moon rabbits?
>>14990322
>the evil twin of the hourai elixir incarnate
demn
>>14990303
so, misfortune = impurity
>>14990157
The Lunarians are just humans who fucked off to the moon in order to be pure.
The real ayy lmaos are the moonbunnies.
>>14989766
>Even freaking Amaterasu had to hide like a little bitch inside a cave because Susanoo was on a rampage.
She ran from General Douglas MacArthur too
>>14989744
>If the moon people see everything from earth as impure, why would Yorihime call upon earthly gods?
She doesn't call upon earthly gods. She calls upon various heavenly gods that reside on the moon.
>>14989766
>It is a buddhist concept of purity, I believe
Shinto. And there is no concept of "purity", only the lack of kegare.
>>14991730
>The Lunarians are just humans who fucked off to the moon in order to be pure.
They aren't humans. ZUN's Lunar Capital is equivalent to the Shinto narrative of heaven, i.e. a realm where most of the early gods reside.
>>14991506
>>14991730
Actually, this is a good point. I suppose there are three possibilities.
The first is that the Moon Rabbits are basically youkai, and a bit like gods. They were created by human belief in 'the rabbit(s) in/on the moon', but since they came into existence in a pure land, they don't have the impurity of Earthly youkai.
Another possibility is that the Lunarians straight up created the rabbits as a slave race, using their advanced combination of science, magic, and divine powers.
Finally, it could be that they really are just ordinary rabbit youkai that Tsukuyomi's crew took along with them, who shed their impurity just like their masters did.
What we do know for certain is that they are not ordinary flesh-and-blood creatures who evolved on the moon. Remember, the Touhou world is ostensibly our world, and we know that the moon was never a place that could give rise to life. There's a simpler, more realistic explanation than actual aliens.
>>14996249
>the Touhou world is ostensibly our world
Does this make the Chinese/Japanese pantheon basically the factual truth out of all the religions in the touhouverse? With that I mean that it would make all the abrahamic faiths invalid as to their claim of being the true faiths.
>>14991515
>so, misfortune = impurity
No.
Life and death, the cycle of life, lifespans = impurity.
Yes it sounds fucking stupid but that's what impurity is about for Lunarians.
>>14996286
Not at all. There are Western 'youkai' out there - werewolves, vampires, chupacabras, and no doubt things like skinwalkers as well. Similarly, gods of any other religion would have arisen from human faith just like the Japanese ones did. In that sense, all religions are 'true'. However, again, we know that gods come from humans, not the other way around. So the God of Christianity didn't create the Earth, nor did the Dragon God or anyone else, and in that sense all religions that have a creation myth are equally false. However, as long as people believe in them, those gods must exist in some form, right?
As >>14996379 says, ZUN probably isn't going to clear up the details any time soon. But it's fun to try to piece together a coherent world from the weird tidbits he comes up with.
>>14996286
No.
For all we know their gods could be just creatures that feed on faith and not real "gods". In fact they're not much that different from youkai.
In fact the gods in Gensokyo don't really conflict between each other even when from different religions. But I'm sure that if monoteism took place if Gensokyo it would completely annihilate any other "god" alive.
>>14996286
Each area usually has their own barrier for myths and shit. The moon probably has non-Japanese areas/barriers too.
Just think about the USA, most of its "Gensokyo" is probably Native American spirits and stuff.
>>14989989
>However, this raises an interesting question. Are all gods pure? For instance, take the rather diversified Moriya crew. Presumably Suwako is pure, but what about Kanako, who was originally human? Or Sanae, who's a deified living human? Does merely being or becoming a god remove one's earthly impurity, or are only the Innumerable Gods naturally pure?
See Sanae's LoLK ending - if Suwako drank Eirin's ultramarine elixir, it would kill her. Kanako would survive though.
>>14996316
>>14991515
You're both right. Impurity is life and death, and life and death causes misfortune.
>>14996480
>For all we know their gods could be just creatures that feed on faith and not real "gods".
Dude, the Shinto definition of a god is something which inspires awe; it's a scale, not an either-or thing. Saying "how do we know they're REALLY gods" is meaningless.
>>14997693
That's great and all but how do you explain Japanese creationism stories within Shintoism?
>>14997708
>How do you explain that the guys who created Japan must have been pretty awesome
I don't follow.
>>14997710
Forget it.
>>14997718
Japanese people worship their ancestors, anon. Those creator deities were their ancestors.
The idea that each generation is more advanced than the last is pretty recent - for a good chunk of human history, people assumed that each generation was lesser than the last, meaning that if you went back far enough everyone has superpowers.
Touhou takes this as true, and uses impurity as the reason people grew weaker (but it also portrays weakness as being in some ways a good thing, since it makes you more human).
>>14997736
tl;dr - humans are what happens to gods after generations of in-breeding
>>14997183
Somewhere in the rural Upper Peninsula, there's a dark spooky woods full of wendigoes and skinwalkers. And all that's separating you from them is a barrier of common sense.
Sleep tight, anon.
>>14996471
>>14996480
>>14997183
I was more thinking along the lines of what the bible and the quran claim about their yahweh being the one true god who created everything. I guess it's still possible to believe that all the gods on the moon came from yahweh, but it's a real stretch against alot of things that are written in those books, basically making them factually invalid which would rustle alot of jimmies in the western world.
This makes me wonder how NASA felt when they first discovered that the moon is inhabited by chinese myths. That must have tumbled quite a lot of world views for the people who learned that it contradicts the christian faith they had.
Although yes, this is just mindless speculation that is unimportant because ZUN doesn't seem to care about clearing up anything in this direction.
>>14996471
Wouldn't people believing that their god created the world, make it so they actually did create the world? I'm pretty sure magic doesn't have to follow the laws of time
>>14998778
If you want to think about stupid pointless shit, contemplate whether atheists/irreligious/non-superstitious people in the outside world have souls. Ones away from Gensokyo and superstitious Japan.
Just like youkai and non-omnipotent gods and fairies no longer exist due to lack to belief, ghosts, and by extension souls might not either.
>>14998778
Touhou runs on "if many believe it enough it might be true". Nothing excludes the rest, and even if there's clash monotheists can just use the logic loop of considering their god as the only true one while everything else is just a spiritual entity that pretends to be one.
Gensokyo isn't absolute proof of anything, if anything it's the result of the opposite. Since it exists in the first place because science started proving myths aren't real.
>>14998778
Okay, for a start
>NASA did not discover anything on the Moon - the Lunar Capital is in another dimension, and the Lunarians just freaked out and called it a "war" because they're germphobic.
>The inhabitants of the Lunar Capital aren't stated to have created the universe. Eirin even talks about the creation of Heaven as something that took place long before she was born.
>The majority of polytheistic religions do not have an "other gods don't exist" clause - that's a Christian thing. Heck, even older forms of Judaism don't have it - the Bible explicitly mentions other gods who can perform miracles, and says you should worship YHWH because he's both more powerful and can draw sustenance from the world directly instead of needing sacrifices. There is no reason for a Shinto-based work to go out of its way to say YHWH exists, because he's assumed to exist unless stated otherwise.
>You can excuse just about anything with nephilim and djinns. "The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.".
If one day, the lunarians decide to purify Gensokyo (kill everyone, which they wont cause they suck balls), will pure beings like Yuyuko die?
>>14998778
>but it's a real stretch against alot of things that are written in those books, basically making them factually invalid which would rustle alot of jimmies in the western world.
It would be no worse than how Science has already rendered them factually invalid, yet they still keep on chugging along regardless.
See, "beliefs" and "facts" are not one and the same. They may overlap from time to time, but when facts start to disagree with belief, something typically changes on the "belief" side of things in order for that belief to continue existing. When information in support of the idea of the Earth being much older and taking far longer to form into what it is now began to outweigh the belief of everything being created in only six or seven days, beliefs shifted to reconcile with this new information so that the belief would not be completely invalidated
I think Kyouko presents a model for this, actually. When scientific explanations for the causes of echos began to become more popular than the belief that she and her species were the cause mountain echos, she had to take steps to redefine herself as something that could still be believed in.
Something similar can also be seen with Kanako reinventing herself from a god of storms to a god of mountains to a god of technological innovation in order to continue receiving the faith she needs to survive.
Point is, beliefs change. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, but if they're going to persist for any length of time they pretty much have to whether the ones holding them like it or not. Jimmies may get wrustled, since nobody likes to be wrong, but when it's a matter of degrees it's better to just be only partially wrong than completely wrong.
>>14999881
1. They're already pure, it won't affect them.
2. Yuyuko is a ghost, she's already dead.
3. The Netherworld is more pure than the moon itself.
4. ur gay
Grab bacteria and something that eats them, a micro-ecosystem more or less
Shoot it at the moon
BAM! Lunarian problem=solved, we pretty much gave them ultra AIDScancer
