Are you an otacool /jp/?
No, that shit is for losers.
The main reason I'm going to college instead of giving up and getting some shit job is so I can have a room like that.
I'm already on /jp/; I can't get any cooler.
>>14972268
Keep at it
Rooms like that just seem so sempty to me. It's one thing to have a lot of stuff (say, if you collect model trains or something), but when you just have a bunch of empty decoration, it feels empty. Those messy /jp/ rooms you see from time to time seem more otaku and more cool than these. I need to clean my room...
>>14972282
He could have built it over time, and for the ultra autistic you always remember each piece that way.
>>14972292
He has a printer, phone, and like viola or something. I simply can't buy any claim that he's anything but normal scum.
>>14972282
They seem empty usually because the otacool idiots aren't actually into most of the stuff they're using to decorate their rooms with. It's always the same tasteless flavor-of-the-month shit or mascot chara shit that's easy to "get into" like Miku or Sonico or danny jew's girl along with whatever posters they can find in their magazines. It's typically stuff that requires very little actual time investment but "looks otaku" (i.e. moe) to uninitiated eyes. On the other hand, people who actually spend lots of time with this shit can feel the disingenuousness. It feels like no actual passion; it's the feeling you get from a tourist. On top of this, they always put them in fancy, colorful LED lit display cases that make everything seem cold and sterile, just like their approach to collecting and their overall involvement in the hobby.
And for those, cool, hip wow-so-"kawaii" otacool girls, it's always the same paint-by-numbers pink-pastel tumblr-friendly Hello Kitty Sailor Moon IKEA cosplay bullshit room; throw in a touch of Madoka Magica/OMG VISUAL NOVELS/GASP LEWD FIGURES or something for a little edge. Yeah that's super unique and cool. Very otaku.
The tru niggas are the ones with items with lots of history. Things that aren't trendy--unpopular things for an unpopular person. Lots of limited edition stuff, maybe. Guys who very clearly specialize in a specific thing, as most otaku tend to do. Could be messy or not, but overall coherent in a very personal and/or symbolic way. The dude with lolicon stuff all over, or specifically magical girls, or the guy who's obsessed with that one character, or the dude that's into model airplanes and trains, shelves stacked high with erotic games or old VHS tapes, disemboweled computers, anime cels and shit. Doesn't matter; you know the type. It's the difference between a room that says "hobby" and one that breathes "obsession." If you're like me, you feel that shit.
>>14972304
Oh.
>>14972304
What's wrong with playing an instrument?
>>14972350
Nothing inherently, but there's also nothing inherently wrong with having a printer or a phone (who knows, maybe there are still some phreaking otaku out there).
>>14972358
I know the rooms you were talking about but I think that one is genuine, care was put into a lot of that.
>>14972380
There is more to heart than care.
Feels way too cluttered and crampy. I need room to stretch out. Anything that I dont immediately and continiously need like drawing tablets or handhelds are stored in a drawer underneath my desk.
Also please excuse the terrible cable management.
>>14972422
>vista
>welcome to the 2nd decade, longhorn!
>>14971964
I have a few figures, fumos, and framed posters, but I wouldn't call any of it cool.
>>14972304
yes a printer
scourge of otaku
>>14972592
>implying it can't be a 7 theme
>>14972592
>implying modern software is otacool
>>14973933
>when your code doesn't compile
>>14974068
>when Gentoo won't install
>>14972358
The last analog phone exchange in the U.S. went digital years ago. Phreaking is as dead as usenet
>>14971964
I remember this picture had a french maid with milky white tights.
>>14974835
Maybe there are phreaking history otaku.
>>14974835
And usenet isn't completely dead, so you're saying that phreaking isn't actually dead.
I'd have a room like that but I can't afford it.
Would having a room like this make me feel any less empty inside?
>>14977382
You can always fill your void with anime merch.
That was my room until about 2010. I stated working and then met somebody, got engaged and moved to another place.
>>14977554
RIP.
>>14977554
sorry for your loss
I wish I had space to put my meager collection on display. Not a lot, just stuff that's important to me, and some of my favourite artwork on the walls. Right now all I really have out in the open is the various books on my shelf.
Despite being nearly 30 and having a well-paying job, I'm still stuck living with my parents in a really shitty house, so there's no way to set up any of my stuff in the open without it getting damaged somehow. Can't wait to move out.
I bought a Shantotto keychain strap and some sushi at Nakano Broadway today
>>14977554
Did they force you to give it all up?
>>14972338
Anon, are you saying if I like lots of charactersincluding Sonico,I'm not TruOtaku?
>>14978053
No, but I just hid my power level until I told my fiancee that I was into my hobbies and she's ok with it.
>>14978422
Today I saw a Japanese couple in Mandarake looking at ero manga together
Why do guys settle for anything less?
I'm an otapoor
>>14978434
People want 'marriage' more than they want 'love'. Basically, they don't want to be alone and so settle for a sub-par relationship.
>>14971989
Same
>>14973933
>When you're just trying to get that data to work but it won't even after 7 fucking hours of working with it.
>>14978191
Depends on the characters and, perhaps more importantly, the type of characters. The problem with mascot characters like Sonico is that they offer a means of "buying into" the hobby without any real involvement because there's little-to-no actual media involving her. Now if you were crazy about her awful anime and her VN and bought all her CDs and stuff it'd be a different story, but the type of people with Miku/Sonico/Mirai shit probably aren't about that.
Nothing with liking pretty girls, frankly it's par for the course for otaku. But if everything you like is no more than, say, five years old or is limited to the most stereotypical "moe otaku" (e.g., KyoAni, cheap ecchi teenshit LN adaptation) stuff then I would have to question if you were actually into it or if you were just trying to fit a stereotype. Nothing inherently wrong with liking those things, mind you, it's just the need to broadcast a very limited involvement that comes off as disingenuous, like some rich kid wasting money. People who are more involved would probably notice.
>>14972338
I nominate this post for /jp/'s post of the year
>>14974835
Phreaking is not dependent on the type of switch in a central office being analog. For example, red boxing with a modified tone dialer for free payphone calls was still a thing until quite recently.
It is sad that AT&T recently requested approval to end things like collect calls/person to person calls that were throwbacks to old times. I found an exchange that still had a 1AESS switch, amazingly, a few years ago and it was a blast listening to shit like test tones generated by it's analog circuits (first digital switch, with core memory and proprietary Bell OS but tones generated in analog domain...an amazing AT&T film shows the assembly of a 1AESS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uMbpaFp3i4 )
Am I on /a/? What's with all the meme-texting and normals?
>>14979741
what the fuck are you talking about
this is the analog phone thread you must have mistaken this for the kancolle general
>>14978574
>People want 'marriage' more than they want 'love'.
while this is easily a quote that could be written in capital letters over a scenic mountain photographic and shared on facebook it made me stop and rethink what I'm doing with my life
polite sage
>>14974835
>usenet
>dead
I actually get most of my security update news and feature update news from usenet.
I also browse math discussions there.
Without usenet, I'd actually have to check multiple websites.
>>14979661
That was a beautiful video to watch. Thank you.
It reminded me of how much I miss Bell Labs, and how novice my knowledge of telephony is. Having been born in 1996, I mostly haven't used phones in my lifetime.
There's a power otaku thread on /jp/ right now, I wonder if a telephony thread should go on /g/ or /jp/.
>>14972268>>14972268
You can do it!
>>14979371
>(You)
>>14980895
Is this your work computer? Where do you work?
>>14980895
>radioshack screwdrivers
Me too.
>>14981016
pretty sure that's sparky and that's his room
>>14980895
How do you live without a middle mouse button? You can't paste in X11 without one.
>>14978434
I don't understand why that's bad at all. I would never settle for anyone who doesn't share my hobbies or interests.
>>14981153
I complained to my wife about her not being as enthusiastic but objectively speaking it is a bit of a hard sell when they're 99% aimed at men and pretty much just focus on the girl getting skewered by anonymous cocks
>>14981166
I don't really care much for porn. I am a fan of cute stuff which seems to have quite an overlap with females. I just can't imagine being with someone who you don't have anything in common with. What are you going to talk about all the time? The weather? Politics?
>>14981178
Yeah but I appreciate that usually girls find guys and not other girls cute
>>14981185
But aren't intelligent people more likely to be bisexual?
>>14981498
My wife is not that intelligent
She ended up with me after all
>>14981639
\_(tsu)_/
Just curious, why did you marry?
>>14981671
Because I felt that finding an >8/10 otacool girl who likes me was a statistical improbability
>>14981706
Couldn't you live together without marrying?
It's cool you found someone you liked.
I had a boyfriendonline for a whole year.
>>14981733
>Couldn't you live together without marrying?
What's the difference?
>>14982733
One is a more free and natural condition, without the artificial suffering imposed by laws and money.
>>14980873
"It's completely unfathomable that two losers would agree with each other on /jp/ - Otaku Culture on the imageboard 4chan.org which, as both a board and site in general, has gained a rather notorious reputation for being home to all manner of losers! I guess I better use meme arrows like an idiot to poorly express my disbelief at something so absolutely mundane and common!"
Nigga, you stupid.
>>14982758
I prefer being married to the thought of being forced to leave the country if I lose my job
>>14982810
I see. You suffer from laws and money either way.
Good luck.
Marriage won't work for me, since I either want to be single or in a closed group relationship.
>>14982850
Imagine six to ten people living together in one house, who all love each other.
http://wikihow.com/Make-an-Otaku-Room
>>14982856
I keep thinking of decorating my room, but I've had to make a couple of service requests and wouldn't want the maintenance guy to see.
>>14982865
Warnings
Ignore people who make fun of you for doing this.
>>14983217
Plastic cups are so white trash.
>>14983538
I earn $80k a year and I still use plastic cups
Bite me
>>14981178
>What are you going to talk about all the time? The weather? Politics?
My parents usually talk shit about other people.
Paru paru paru.
>>14972338
I'm always wary of vocaloid figs, especially if a person's collection barely has 2-3 of them. That stuff always comes off as extremely tryhard-y and showoff-y.
>>14981123
>You can't paste in X11 without one
Yes you can. Try shift-insert.
>>14984564
I like this one. I have a tewi fumo and a thinkpad, but no external thinkpad keyboard.
>>14983538
What's wrong with being white trash? You get all the authenticity of being a minority without the genetic inferiority.
>>14985401
Genetic superiority is worth little if you're still getting by on a call centre paycheque. Who cares if you're authentic?
t. former white trash
Overtime my room has become less and less my own room, and a storage place for my mothers endless collection of women's erotica novels.
There must be thousands of them in this house by now.
Please send help.
>>14985298
>shift-insert
Oh. Thanks!
I still like being able to do middle clicks, but that's cool too.
>>14985494
At least you have a never-ending reading supply.
I have a Miku keyboard does that count?
>>14985585
Take your memes elsewhere, dingus.
>>14985585
Who are you quoting?
>>14972338
You make otaku sound a lot like hipsters, neat.
>>14985494
Sell them at used bookstores half a dozen at a time.
You won't be able to clear the pile out but you will be able to stem the tide a bit. Sell them as new ones come in.
Go for novels that aren't new but are only a few years old.
Cycle your bookstores - if you have bookstores A B C and D in your town, sell first to A, then to B, C and then D before selling again to A. This keeps you from causing a glut of stock in one store and wearing out your welcome. Ebay is another option, especially if you live in a smaller town, since you'll flood the local market after a couple of sales.
>>14985662
P.S. never sell to a bookstore that you know your mom visits, since after a while you will become known as the harlequin romance guy. You can find out which stores she visits by going through the trash for any receipts right after she makes a purchase.
>>14984564
When was this first posted? Can't remember how many times I've seen it.
>>14985117
What if the person is an actual vocaloid otaku?
>>14973933
1000 hours in GIMP
>>14985967
Hence the "especially if a person's collection barely has 2-3 of them" part.
>>14972338
I'm sure there's plenty of posers and people who only think they're otaku because they don't get what it means, but someone having a very clean, slick-looking collection doesn't necessarily mean they are either of those. I guess it gives the impression of caring too much about appearances or even putting on an act, whereas the stereotypical messy otaku room gives the impression of someone sincerely dedicated to their obsessions without caring what others think about it or having the time or leftover money to make it look good. Western and Japanese otaku seem to have different ideas about interior decoration and how important that is, but they also have different apartment sizes and housing markets. Still, I think Japanese otaku tend to be more hardcore, more singularly focused on certain things, and less concerned with appearances, though I have heard some in Japan complain that nowadays there are many otaku posers or watered down quasi-otaku. Of course all of this hinges on the question of what an otaku even is.
>>14979174
>But if everything you like is no more than, say, five years old or is limited to the most stereotypical "moe otaku" (e.g., KyoAni, cheap ecchi teenshit LN adaptation) stuff then I would have to question if you were actually into it or if you were just trying to fit a stereotype.
A problem with merchandise is its transient and fast-paced nature, so it may be difficult to acquire merchandise of older stuff, and you'll have to go out your way to look for them. You can probably get a good idea of when someone started collecting by looking at their collection.
>>14988397
>not using a better unix
>>14971964
>Ramba Ral figure
Approved
>>14985731
I saw it in a /JP/ room thread couple of months back
>>14988483
>people complaining about buying into certain characters
>"but owning only 3 figures of a character makes you a dirty normie poser!"
Huh.
>>14971964
>rig on the table
I never understand this. Wouldn't the noise bother you all the time?
Even if you have a water-cooling setup or have super "silent" fans/other parts you'd still hear the noises and feel vibrations regardless.
Yeah wearing headphones would deafen the noises a bit but still it's retarded.
I might be the minority but since I don't like showing LEDs and cool parts off, placing the desktop under the desk is the perfect choice.
>>14988397
this picture looks like it was made 10 years ago
![[HorribleSubs] Koukaku no Pandora - 11 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_14.40_[2016.03.28_18.57.13].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2IHRoCP.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Koukaku no Pandora - 11 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_14.40_[2016.03.28_18.57.13].jpg")
>>14973933
So it's not just fiction.
>>14989589
>hear the noises
Fans make for perfect white noise.
>vibrations
What vibrations? If your fans are vibrating that means the bearings are going bad. Get new fans.
I don't like keeping mine under the table just because I'd have to get down there or pull it out when I wanted to dust it.
I've been looking to get one of the old-style workstations that your monitor sits on top of for forever.
>>14989589
I have my rig on top of my desk(it's actually an older two level desk... it's hard to explain, but it's above my monitor). Sure, it makes noise, but there's only like 3 fans in it, including the power supply fan, so it doesn't make that much noise. I would put it on the floor if I could, but the layout of the furniture in the room makes it hard to work with the cables if I were to do that.
But really, the noise is no big deal unless you have a terribly power supply and a billion fans.
And I don't know what you're talking about with vibrations, unless your fans are going bad.
>>14989956
>I've been looking to get one of the old-style workstations that your monitor sits on top of for forever.
They're called HTPC cases. There's tons of them.
>>14971989
Haha, I bet you're really cute irl, I want you to call me a loser :3
>>14989956
>>14990206
Ignore what I said about vibrations.
I was talking about the small vibration you feel when you directly touch the case with your hand.
However if you have one of those beast cases or special "silent" cases (such as Fractal series) you barely feel any vibrations at all.
More so those cases with rubber feet nullifies any vibrations so yeah, you guys are right.
I was thinking about older cases with hard feet or no rubber feet at all.
>>14990206
Wrong reply, meant to reply to >>14989997
I keep my computer under my desk, but my fans are still somewhat loud.
Also, how would one set up 7.1 surround around a computer? I think it'd be difficult to set up a hexagon of speakers around one's chair.
>>14990685
Unless you don't mind having speakers standing in the middle of the room or something, move your desk so that it's facing directly opposite to a wall. And close as well.
So that when you set up the rear speakers it would stick close to the wall, avoiding any clutter as well as it's nice and close to where you'll be sitting.
Common sense really.
>>14990685
Why don't you get new fans that aren't loud? They're not expensive.
>>14977554
Do you live in Japan?
>>14979856
>>14989589
I can't put my rig on the computer. There's just nowhere to put it. It's loud, but I've gotten used to it. It's loud enough that it'd be loud on the floor too.
>>14992647
Shit. I can put my rig in my computer, but I can't put my computer on the floor.
>>14992223
It does look like a tumblrfag thing
>>14985638
Only otaku, historically, have been alienated, scapegoated, and seen as disgusting garbage at best, and serial murderers and pedophiles at worst. The real "hipsters" (frankly, a stupid term) are these fashionable Shibuya tourists looking to be edgy and different by slapping moe girls on their clothes and expensive cars.
>>14988493
>I guess it gives the impression of caring too much about appearances or even putting on an act
This is definitely one of the reasons why I get iffy when things look all clean and neat and organized. Otaku certainly do care very much about their belongings. I know for sure that people who collect cels are very careful about them and probably quite organized. But riced out display cases seem excessive and show-offy, like it was put together for someone else to see. I think this a lot: The most "otaku" rooms are the ones you will never see--the ones that were not made to be photographed and shared with others. Basically the room as an extension of one's own self and one's own obsessions, like a desire to create a comforting sanctuary. Nothing wrong with neatness, but when your room looks like a stereotypical "otaku" museum space or something, it just doesn't feel comfortable or authentic.
>Of course all of this hinges on the question of what an otaku even is.
There are lots of good articles and essays about it. Might I recommend Lawmune's blog to start with. Basically "otakkii" is not about possession, but about involvement. Less with reality and more about the virtual. What makes otaku "otaku" is a preoccupation with /information/. An obsession with details and trivial facts at the loss of any cohesive, comprehensive understanding. The type of person who knows everything about German WWII tanks, but nothing about the geopolitical landscape that led to WWII to begin with. They also love collecting, but this tends to be reflective of their weird, myopic interests. And consider that knowing who the key animator is for a particular segment or something is much more impressive than simply having all the blurays. Knowing rare details about a particular idol or seiyuu and such is more impressive than, say, having all her singles. I think the only thing otaku like more than collecting things is collecting information. So again, the most "otakkii" thing about otaku is what we /don't see/.
Unfortunately, this is a dated view of otaku. Nowadays people conflate consumerism with involvement, but it's easy to simply buy things. It's much harder to build a real collection. It's easy to have all the blurays, much harder to know who animated a scene by simply looking at the way an image moves. Easy to buy a Strike Witches figure, but much harder to explain how the firing mechanism of her MG42 works (I personally have no clue). I think this is what fans may mean when they refer to "poser otaku": people who buy things but know little about it. And now they make things that you don't need to know anything about in order to buy and feel included. Posers indeed.
>A problem with merchandise is its transient and fast-paced nature, so it may be difficult to acquire merchandise of older stuff, and you'll have to go out your way to look for them. You can probably get a good idea of when someone started collecting by looking at their collection.
Definitely. One of the first things I look for is the age of the figures/posters/etc and the characters/shows they're are based on. I disagree, however, that older stuff is harder to acquire. At this very moment, you can buy old figures and cels and tokusatsu toys and stuff on Mandarake and even Ebay. The issue is that people just don't look, don't know, don't care, etc. and simply preorder whatever new Nendoroid/figma is coming out on AmiAmi. Actually, Mandarake in particular seems to represent the classic otaku ideal quite well; there's a lot of history in the items they sell and they keep this history alive by buying/reselling them.
>>14982865
>Tips
>Keep some Pocky in your room.
Oh boy...
>>14993664
Another way of looking at elaborate otaku rooms is that the owner's target audience is not other otaku but anyone who might visit his home, and the owner is openly flaunting the fact that he's spent thousands on useless figures of girls and then possibly thousands on displaying them, and fuck you if you don't like it.
>There are lots of good articles and essays about it.
I actually meant that as a rhetorical question. I have seven or eight books on the subject (and various papers/writings) so I'm already familiar with it. It's a complicated topic, but your description is a pretty good one.
Toshio Okada has described otaku as intelligent experts who defy societal norms and pursue their interests even if other people disapprove of it or think it's a waste of time, or even if it means being less popular with the opposite sex. He also thinks that otaku should have a basic knowledge of and respect for the interests of other otaku. According to him many otaku today don't live up to these ideals, but he doesn't elaborate further in the translated excerpt I've read.
>I disagree, however, that older stuff is harder to acquire. At this very moment, you can buy old figures and cels and tokusatsu toys and stuff on Mandarake and even Ebay.
I've bought older figures, but I've been so focused on figures that I haven't gotten too much into other kinds of merchandise and it seems like it may be hard to get certain things after a while, like posters, mugs, puzzles, pens, notebooks and other such things. Though admittedly I haven't looked very hard.
>>14993664
My obsession is my room.
>>14994293
>I have seven or eight books on the subject
Would you mind telling me the titles?
>>14994293
Are you an otaku otaku
>>14995668
I have like 5 books on that subject, I'm an otaku otaku otaku.
>>14993664
>>14994293
What the heck is your problem?
>>14994293
>Another way of looking at elaborate otaku rooms is that the owner's target audience is not other otaku but anyone who might visit his home
Very true. Well, having lots of people in your sacred place is a little weird to begin with, but those are the types of people we're dealing with I guess. This is why I've come be be quite irked by the "moe" trend even though I'm all for it in the sense that I get more beautiful girls. It's become a fashionable kind of thing, but if you're a guy with literal toys, of tokusatsu stuff or something, no newcomer would be impressed. There's been a shrinking of what it means to be "otaku" in the past decade or so and it's converged around a very contrived and stereotyped view of "moe." I can only say that real recognize real, and that the most valuable things are not the most expensive things stored in a riced out display. For example, I've been building an autograph collection now for a few years and it's easily one of my most treasured belongings.
>I actually meant that as a rhetorical question. I have seven or eight books on the subject (and various papers/writings) so I'm already familiar with it. It's a complicated topic, but your description is a pretty good one.
Apologies, I think I got caught up in my own toughts. But it shows as you know what you're talking about which has come to be quite the rarity around here.
>Toshio Okada has described otaku as intelligent experts
Dude is a legit ota champion and I'm not sure if anyone has singularly worked harder to try to improve the otaku public image. I think he might've been the one to say that they're basically experts in a particular field but don't get paid for it. And he was one of the few to make it a thing to be proud of rather than a thing of shame.
>He also thinks that otaku should have a basic knowledge of and respect for the interests of other otaku.
I think part of my (not really mine) definition earlier was to unite different types of otaku together. Lately I've come to really appreciate that it's not the interest that makes the otaku but the perspective that they have for it. It's like a "mania mindset". I thought wota were kind of weird for the longest time until I went to a concert and felt their energy and then I couldn't help but understand. Under the superficial differences, otaku are cut from the same cloth. So when everyone feels like otaku is nothing but some moebuta stereotype, it's bothersome.
>I've been so focused on figures that I haven't gotten too much into other kinds of merchandise and it seems like it may be hard to get certain things after a while
When I started collecting I focused on figures as well. If I had more money, I would probably collect cels. But now I think I just like hunting for neat stuff, going in without really looking for anything in particular. My dream is to dig through the Mandarake in Nakano Broadway. For now I'm mostly content with e-digging. People are right to avoid Ebay, but if you know what you're looking for it's great sometimes. And this might come off as scandalous on here, but if you go to conventions and cut through the bootlegs and bullshit, you'll find people selling cool things for decent prices. I've managed to find pretty amazing theatrical/promo posters for stupid prices and older, over-looked figures that people are desperate to get rid of.
Why are you autists writing pages of text when they only thing that matters is if someone actually has an attachment to the merch they're buying and not just decorating for ~aesthetic~ reasons.
It's literally just a question of sentimental versus aesthetic value.
What do you call a Japanese guy who joins ISIS?
>Baka Haram
>>14983218
Decorate with things that are easy to take down and hide.
>>14985494
Quietly replace them with Bishoujo Bunko and Nijigen Dream erotic novels.
>>14996606
Yeah why would anyone care about the history and evolution of otaku and otaku culture on /jp/ - Otaku Culture?
>It's literally just a question of sentimental versus aesthetic value.
It's literally more than that and those are not mutually exclusive. Try again.
>>14994293
>that space shuttle
No one remembers the space shuttle as much as the Floridians who actually went outside to watch it launch, a little orange dot in the sky. That drawing in general struck a chord for me.[/blogpost]
>>14996606
>Why are you autists writing pages of text
This is a slow board and I like long posts
>>14996363
>basically experts in a particular field but don't get paid for it
I think what can be learnt from otaku is that knowledge can persevere even in a world without money or capitalism.
>>14993664
>Lawmune's blog
Looked at it, didn't see anything particularily interesting.
>>14996929
Indeed. Though I wouldn't say completely independent from either of those things. The internet and technology in general are very important for otaku as it's a means to connect without actually doing it face-to-face. It also allows them to gather, trade information much more efficiently.
>>14996994
If you dig through his site it has lots of neat articles on pre-2000s otaku culture, history, otaku politics, habits, collecting tips, and much more. It's just a great, albeit old (I think it has charm), resource for this kind of stuff if you want a glimpse of how this stuff was prior to Web 2.0. Another good one is gwern.net which has good resources like interviews and essays. Keep in mind that a lot of it is academic-oriented so it's less for a casual reader and more for people who are into the "otaku studies" thing.
>>14997051
So, how far back in the archives should i look? I just looked at his most recent articles (from 2012 and forth) and they don't seem to have much to do with otaku.
>>14997051
Also, are there any particular of the essays from gwern.net you can reccomend? There's a lot.
>>14997067
Oh you want to go to his netspace, my mistake: http://www.cjas.org/~leng/. His blog has some good stuff too but it's rather disorganized as blogs tend to be.
>>14997078
The Melancholy of Kyon is an interesting read. I recommend anything relating to Eva since the site has a lot of good Eva references. Beyond that, Anno interviews, Okada interviews, and there's excerpts from Little Boy by Takashi Murakami and The Notenki Memoirs by Yasuhiro Takeda, both great books that deal with otaku culture as subject matter, the former a more outsider perspective while the latter an insider one.
And if the more academic stuff catches your eye then I would recommend also looking into writings by Hiroki Azuma and Eiji Ootsuka who Azuma borrowed a lot of ideas from. Unfortunately it's hard finding stuff by Ootsuka unrelated to his manga.
>>14971964
>Are you an otacool /jp/?
Yes.
>>14994293
>the owner's target audience is not other otaku but anyone who might visit his home
This is the most telling factor in my opinion. A "real" otaku would design his living space to be an extension of his own mind, the target audience being himself. Keeping it tidy or clean might be a lesser priority so as to mitigate the disgust of anyone who might walk in, just as someone without the luxury of seclusion has to put up a false face in public, but the primary purpose of the setup is to facilitate use of the room by the one who lives in it. It doesn't necessary have to be messy, but if a room looks particularly photogenic or aesthetically pleasing at the possible expense of user comfort the viewer may question whether the room is more for living in or for showing off.
>>14971964
no i live in a dorm and have basically nothing in terms of decorations
>>14997420
I enjoy my room being neat and orderly because I'm often in it 20+ hours a day and I would rather sit in a nice living space than a pigsty, which enhances my own comfort. No one even comes in here.
gwern's Komm Susser Tod article was good.
>>14994293
>>14995357
Please respond.
>>14997798
I thought it was pretty confusing.
>>14998315
Oh. In which ways?
It made me realise a few things I hadn't been thinking of when I actually watched the show.
NGE is one of the four anime I've ever watched.
So a quick question: Why is being tidy seen as "posing" or not being "real"? I can't for the life of me imagine living and spending over 80 % of my time in a dirty room, and as I do spend 80 % of my time in the same room I of course try to keep it neat.
It just seems so stubborn and, may I, fake when you say that it is not a real otaku room if it isn't a complete mess. Somehow you push the image of dirty and messy. In the first place, if a real otaku room isn't made to be shown would not all the rooms that were photographed belong to a "poser"?
I'm not saying I know anything about the subject, but reading this thread it somewhat bothered me.
>>14998426
It's not about being clean or messy. It's about whether it's for yourself, or obviously posed for photographs and visitors.
>>14995357
>Otaku: Japan's Database Animals by Hiroki Azuma
Gets cited a lot, but it's more about postmodernism than it is about otaku. Then again many anime academics are more about postmodernism than anime.
>Beautiful Fighting Girl by Tamaki Saitou
A very insightful book on otaku sexuality and anime sexuality written by a psychiatrist from the point of view of Jungian psychology.
>Fandom Unbound
A collection of writings by different authors (including Lawmune/Lawrence Eng) on aspects of otaku, focusing on the fandom aspects.
>Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan
Different writings on otaku. Focuses on questioning the meaning, definition and labeling of "otaku" from a historical perspective (in short, question everything). Covers the creation of the term itself and the Tsutomu Miyazaki incident, and has previously untranslated writings from Toshio Okada. Likely the most essential book on the topic.
>Otaku Spaces by Patrick W. Galbraith
Interviews with ordinary otaku of all kinds (e.g. an expert on Russian science fiction, and a guy with an NGE van and a life-sized Rei in the passenger seat). Aims to challenge stereotypes and preconceptions and let otaku speak for themselves.
>The Moe Manifesto by Galbraith
Interviews with artists, writers and academics in Japan (like Jun Maeda) about what moe means to them.
>The Otaku Encyclopedia by Galbraith
An encyclopedia and dictionary of anything conceivably related to otaku.
>>14998426
I really don't understand how can anyone spend so much effort at removing every single dust from the room and keeping it completely clean at all times, especially when they're taking pictures. I do my best to keep it from being too dirty so I don't choke on dust and floor is always relatively clean, but where's the point in doing any more?
>>14998426
I think the point is that truOtakus are so invested in their hobbies that having a clean tidy room would not be important. cleaning takes precious time away from their hobbies and would likely only get done when it starts to impact their health, and even then, some don't clean
>>14998447
But Jung is complete shit. Cool list though.
>>14998504
Where did this opinion come from and how?
>>14998447
Thank you kindly. A lot of these are on amazon.ca, which is nice.
>>14998523
The Jungian archetypes are awful.
Freud, Jung, and others are just so wrong. They only get points for effort.
>>14998426
>It just seems so stubborn and, may I, fake when you say that it is not a real otaku room if it isn't a complete mess
I'm not saying that and I sincerely doubt that anyone else is saying that. There's nothing wrong with wanting or having a clean room. The problem is conforming to this overly simplistic and stereotyped hyperconsumptive image of an "otaku room" just because you want to broadcast that image for yourself. It's an issue of whether or not it's a room that's "lived in" that provides the feeling of authenticity. It just so happens that in the process of living in a room, the room reflects the person and becomes a functional and symbolic extension of that person. The point I made earlier about not being photographed was only to say that the otaku isn't occupied with showing others their room. Their obsession is very much their own, and their room is their own personal sanctuary. A link shared earlier in the thread demonstrates the backwards thinking of the "otacool" or "poser" type of fan--constructing an image beforehand and then fitting oneself into that. It's disingenuous and counter-intuitive to a comfortable, personal living space.
>>14998418
Some of the sentences are just messes, maybe due to bad typesetting. A pretty good example in the first part of the essay:
>Further, many scenes are not obviously ‘dream sequences’, yet must be - for example, D&R has unexplained scenes of Asuka, Shinji, and Kaworu playing classical Bach pieces TODO: was it Bach? together, despite the fact that Kaworu was introduced after Asuka was put into a coma.
>>14998697
It reads alright to me with the exception of the "TODO" part which seems like a writer's note. Also, it was Bach and Pachelbel.
>>14973448
>>14973391
got a point there buds
>>14996363
>There's been a shrinking of what it means to be "otaku" in the past decade or so and it's converged around a very contrived and stereotyped view of "moe."
As important as moe has become in otaku culture, many Westerners overstate its importance, take it out of context and have a very shallow approach to it (waifu wars and circlejerks where nobody actually has a waifu). Behind all the moe there's also an interest in military hardware, airsoft, robots, computers, trains, models, idols, video games, tokusatsu and animation. Military hardware is a good example with works like GuP, KanColle, Strike Witches, Upotte and the anime-within-anime in Shirobako, but often people just see the moe. The creative element—actually making all those manga, drawings, games, anime and music—is especially absent among Westerners.
>>14998504
Even if you don't buy into Jungian psychology it's still a very good book. It's not just Jungian mumbo jumbo.
>>14998607
This makes me me think of battlestations. When you browse r/battlestations it eventually becomes apparent how similar all of them look. The same trendy hardware riced to perfection, the same triple monitor or ultrawide setup, the same Ikea furniture, black and white color scheme, LEDs all over the place, and everything is immaculately sleek and put-together. The room is often decorated with currently popular shows, movies and games, maybe some of those trendy minimalist posters too.
Best jaypee room
>>14999167
Read the thread before posting
ku da sa i
>>14998558
Psychoanalytic theory has definitely been discredited for a while now, but that doesn't stop the theories from being heavily influential in art, media, and culture in general. When a creator uses psychoanalytic theory in their work, it helps to know what it's about to really appreciate it from a storytelling perspective, regardless of how you feel about the theories themselves. The Persona games are so much more interesting when you're at least somewhat familiar with Jungian philosophy and occult mysticism.
>>14999150
>Dirty Pair poster
Such a shit show.
>>14999150
>Military hardware is a good example with works like GuP, KanColle, Strike Witches, Upotte and the anime-within-anime in Shirobako, but often people just see the moe.
I'm glad that there are shows that still have these additional layers of appreciation. I'm having a very, very hard time trying to find any sort of depth to the slew of LN adapatations that have been coming out. But even something as mediocre as Nyaruko-san had stuff for Lovecraft RPG, Kamen Rider, and seiyuu fans. I think the Western preoccupation and fundamental misunderstandings of moe come from their surface appreciation of the form, which, ultimately, is due to their lack of experience and lack of knowledge with otaku culture as a whole. The problem is that there's a lack of socialization into the subculture here beyond those directly tied to mainstream, corporate interests. I'm really disheartened with the amount of people pouring into this hobby via avenues like Crunchyroll or Culture Japan who will most likely never know about otaku history and Western fan culture (fansubbing, trading, zines), Even worse is that plenty are proud to be ignorant of these things. The biggest lie here is that "otakuism" is something that can be purchased. Well, I think Okada has expressed similar thoughts on the generational moe ota gap in Japan too, though it's not as pronounced there as it is here. The problem is very much tied to industry and marketing.
>This makes me me think of battlestations
Yeah. Desktop threads as well with the ridiculous riced-out "minimalist" setups. At some point it stops becoming functional and becomes about showing off and impressing randos who are equally ignorant on the matter. Unsurprisingly, fashion works in exactly the same way. You know they sew fake, non-functional pockets on girls' "jeggings"? "Military-inspired jackets" that are cut for anorexics with random zippers and shit everywhere? Fuck fashion.
>>14999340
How dare you. Dirty Pair was a very decent and fun show with awesome music, especially that OP.
>>14999364
Its probably your nostalgia. Ive watched the show recently and its shit. I especially hated OP, it felt pretty autistic to me.
>>14999150
So, is that supposed to be a retro otaku roo? What's up with the vocaloid?
>>14999357
What is it that they don't know that they should to know?
I get a bad feeling when I see these kinds of rooms. Most of it is things they have no connection with. I'd rather have a few pieces of merchandise that mean something to me than thousands of flavor of the month garbage I'll regret buying later.
>>14999357
Generally speaking, nobody knows anything about anything in the Western anime community, least of all about otaku. It's the final frontier that even the most long-time viewers and experts are often clueless about (Jonathan Clements might as well have started watching anime last year for all he knows about the topic), and there isn't much interest in it either (English language publications on the topic would be slim pickings without Galbraith). OreImo has interesting and educational things to say about otaku, and is very explicit about it, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen people mention it. They'll argue about Best Girl or the ending, and that's about it. But that's at least a big step above what most people do: vehemently denounce the show because it's "otaku pandering" and "moeshit" and "the cancer killing anime."
A site like ANN would be in a good position to talk about all the things people don't even realize they should know about, but I don't think they are much better informed than their readers. There's a lack of expertise and curiosity all around.
>>14999555
>What's up with the vocaloid?
There's two kinds of people in this world: those with leeks and those without leeks. Miku can do whatever she wants, even if it means violating the time-space continuum.
>>14980895
Model M my NIGGA!
>>14983692
You can be white trash and be a millionaire. Being poor doesn't make you trash you fucking dingus.
>>14985731
The guy's setup has been posted on /g/ years back
>>15000685
>A site like ANN would be in a good position to talk about all the things people don't even realize they should know about
Which would be, what?
>>15001242
For starters: a primer on otaku, moe, the history of anime, and the general organization and operation of the anime industry.
>>14999566
Right here >>15001261
It might also help them to learn about Western fandom and anime community beyond stupid memes and catchphrases. This base of knowledge is really the only way to properly foster informed fans who might then contribute back into the community. I would be entirely lost here if people weren't translating/sharing interviews and essays and books, detailing studio structure, talking about animation/composition/etc., and, most importantly, fan-translating the media I consume. One big problem now is that otaku narratives are controlled by industry more than otaku themselves and this is how these distortions of understanding are motivated both within Japan and overseas.
>>15000685
>experts are often clueless
One of the huge problems is that otaku themselves aren't speaking up and that when they do the material is not easily accessible to Westerners. This is why I'm so glad to have fans here that will translate interviews and stuff so that we can get the picture directly from the people making the things we enjoy, people like Okada or Anno, those who are dyed-in-the-wool otaku. One major problem is a lack of centralization of this content.
You're right that ANN would serve as a great way to ease people into these things, but I've seen the tripe on the site and frankly, the articles on there are garbage. They sometimes write about older shows, but it's always de-contextualized and portrayed as a freak "novelty" kind of thing like someone should check it out if they want to waste some time or /if they have nothing else to watch/. No! They should be watching this older stuff FIRST to better understand where contemporary anime draws from narratively/thematically/stylistically/etc. or they should at least be familiar with it. Like I still can't believe that there are people who think they can talk about post-Eva anime in any critical sense without having seen Eva.
>OreImo has interesting and educational things to say about otaku, and is very explicit about it, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen people mention it.
They're being sucked in by the "moe" (and kink) factor before any historical curiosity here. And while I appreciate that it does try to show it in more detail I still think it's guilty of stereotyping "otaku" as the moe ota. Another problem is that it's just pretty mediocre all around and so any messages get lost in the haphazard overly dramatic narrative (which produces "waifu wars" nonsense) and in (I hate this word but it's apt for it I think) the "pandering". I think a better otakucentric series is like Genshiken which, if nothing else, at least doesn't have the moe dressing; it's uncool people doing some pretty uncool things, not hot girls doing uncool-turned-cool things. The best example is probably Otaku no Video, which should be required viewing, but it's criminally unknown over here.
>>15001576
Japanese otaku seem to be speaking up fine, but it's not necessarily translated, there wasn't much academic and commercial interest in the subject until recently, and most people aren't interested in reading about it anyway.
>I still think it's guilty of stereotyping "otaku" as the moe ota.
Kirino is the very model of a normalfriend, and female, yet also an otaku who is into eroge. Her main obsession is a children's magical girl show, and she ends up writing a light novel that gets turned into an anime (this more or less is how the sausage gets made—someone writes a novel). She burns with passion rather than mopes around depressed like otaku are supposed to. Kuroneko on the other hand is different, as she's into gothic-type anime, cosplay and very skill-based video games, and doesn't care for Kirino's obsessions. Saori is an old-fashioned all-round otaku and very well-spoken and outgoing, and Sena is a fujoshi and a game programmer. So there are these different kinds of otaku, and none of them are shut-ins, socially dysfunctional (beyond some anime-only quirks) or unkempt. But some of the other characters have this preconception that otaku are all Tsutomu Miyazaki's reserve troops who must be shunned by polite society. And don't even realize their daughter or classmate is one of them.
The characters are actually not far-removed from reality. Otaku Spaces interviews a young woman who does modeling work and is into yuri. There's a YT video called Otaku Room Photographer about the room of a young woman who is into bishoujo characters and anime. The (former?) model Haruna Anno has a massive collection of retro video game stuff that must be one of the biggest in Japan, and she at least used to play Street Fighter competitively. It also seems that Kirino's voice actress is an otaku not much different from the character.
>and in (I hate this word but it's apt for it I think) the "pandering"
I know of no evidence to suggest the author was not being sincere with his work. His publisher even overruled him when he wanted to end things on an even more incestuous note.
No try to hide my power level at least a little
>>14997420
>>14997528
Yea tidiness and cleanliness are to mitigate my own disgust. I don't think aesthetically pleasing and comfort are mutually exclusive.
>>15002082
>Japanese otaku seem to be speaking up fine, but it's not necessarily translated
I don't think that's the case. I think corporate interests are much too involved and it's ultimately speaking on behalf of otaku and twisting the narrative to most benefit it financially. You can see it pretty clearly with something like Culture Japan in that it limits its exposition of the culture only to that which it's affiliated with. The same can be said of distributors and localizers who focus only on the new popular media and neglect old, often important works. The rerelease of Otaku no Video had to be kickstarted, after all. And with regards to Japan's image, it's better to make otaku "cool" and to ignore the more unsavory aspects of it. I don't want people to mistake otaku culture for a consumer culture per se, but this is ultimately what's happening (in the West, god bless GK makers and doujin groups, etc). We can't forget that otaku culture exists because of otaku creators, but if what they create is ultimately filtered by corporate interests, then what they're trying to say is limited by that.
>So there are these different kinds of otaku, and none of them are shut-ins, socially dysfunctional (beyond some anime-only quirks) or unkempt.
It's been a while since I've seen it and I only saw the first season. I was unclear. I remember clearly that there were other types of otaku. What I meant by stereotyping has to do with what I felt was the "target demographic" and due to the style and character designs/personalities and their interests it seemed to converge around moe culture, despite (I get it) other interests. This is also what I meant by "pandering" because it's like it's in favor to the most visible, popular aspects of current otaku culture: ironic fujoshi stereotypes, LN, moe, eroge, cosplay, gamers. I remember some things thrown in that served no real purpose other than to be service to the viewer. They're the same feelings I got from Konata in Lucky Star, but to a lesser degree because it wasn't plot-involved in that case. Same issues in Welcome to the NHK, even; they included tons of "otaku" material that wasn't originally in the novel, but almost completely removed the lolicon aspects. Lolicon is practically integral to otaku culture and history! Don't censor important character points like that!
Basically, You can't just show the good aspects. You also have to show the ugliness. We are not beautiful 2D girls that can all balance a "real" and secret life. OnV excels in this regard since it manages to show the uncomfortable things, but with a degree of self-awareness and lightheartedness. I'm not saying everyone should be shut-in and suicidal. Just that being "otaku" was never a thing to strive for or to self-label; it's something you use to refer to /someone else/. It just happens. And it's a thing that's heavily dependent on how society frames you (see Okada's distinction between "mania" and "otaku"). I think Oreimo even touches this point, but people seem to miss it cause they're preoccupied with "being otaku," they see the "types" as boxes they should try to fit in or something. I think it was Anno that said that it was fine to be ota, but to simply have some self-awareness to it. I sense that that's missing amongst fans who are watching things like Oreimo and miss the details and try to fit a stereotype because that's what they see in anime and fight over stupid "waifu" shit because that's what they see others doing. Basically, when did it stop becoming something personal? Does that make sense?
>>15004145
>>15002082
I should note that Oreimo merch (and recent LN adaptation stuff in general) are "red flags" for me because of this tendency for them to be repped hard by practically exhibitionist newcomers seeking validation for their "otaku rooms" and when I say feelings of "pandering" I do mostly mean to an audience like this, with a very limited, surface understanding of it that involves buying lots of things? I'm certain this bias is coloring my impression of the show itself and ultimately people who watch it. I have also never seen anyone note the details of the show as you have; it's always retarded "waifu" shit talk and memes so there's that as well.
>>15004145
>I don't think that's the case.
Well, there is quite a lot of information out there—translations of Japanese writers, studies and essays by academics, interviews with Japanese people, and some documentaries (Akihabara Geeks) and anime that depict otaku. But only people who are interested and go out looking will find it. Culture Japan and similar sites draw more eyeballs of course.
>This is also what I meant by "pandering" because it's like it's in favor to the most visible, popular aspects of current otaku culture
Like I said, I know of no evidence to suggest the author wasn't sincere.
>Basically, You can't just show the good aspects. You also have to show the ugliness.
If you're trying to make a balanced portrait of otaku, yes. What I'm getting at with OreImo is that I think it's interesting because of how it challenges negative and monolithic stereotypes about otaku, and the judgmental moral high ground of otaku bashers. So it's not just a waifu war simulator. Also another point to note is that Kirino has a closet full of games and merch but doesn't show it to anyone, while Kuroneko owns hardly anything but wears cosplay in daily life. It's like poetry.
I think the point of OnV was to make the viewer question the reality of everything he was seeing and the very existence of "otaku" (a term that one writer just came up with one day to label a whole bunch of people who didn't really have anything to do with each other). In the end they try and fail to chase down a "true otaku," implying that all the previous otaku may not have been real. The true otaku also notably doesn't want to be interviewed. But we should keep in mind that OnV was a product of its time, and even Okada declared himself the Otaking and started talking about "otakuology" and how great otaku are.
How does one successfully balance being a weirdo otaku with having a type A personality?
I like having a serious career but everyone around me is so dull
I've considered Japanese game companies but I don't want to be poor
>>15006232
>>15006245
Fuck off to r9k and stay there.
>>15006232
>>15006245
Please fuck off.
>>15004619
>But only people who are interested and go out looking will find it.
Certainly. There's lots of stuff out there, but it's like supplemental material. I'm talking more in the sense of what they're making. Perhaps it's a generational gap at play but it would seem like there's been a reduction in otaku narratives. I spoke about it earlier about things seeming to converge to a rather limited palette of what has now become cliche ("moe" but not limited to that). And I've been thinking that the industry plays a very significant role in maintaining this. Even if otaku are still making anime, they're still controlled by money after all. But I'm sure some of this is just confirmation bias as well since there were plenty of garbage cliche-ridden older shows. It just somehow felt that the potential to say things in anime was much greater in the past? Is post-Eva anime capable of speaking like Yamato or Gundam or Eva itself? Just a thing to consider, I guess.
>What I'm getting at with OreImo is that I think it's interesting because of how it challenges negative and monolithic stereotypes about otaku
I think my issue with it was that it tackled it in a patently unrealistic way. "Hot underaged closet imouto-moe eroge addict dick-tease tsundere little sister" is practically absurd even to me (a person who likes all of these descriptors and who even has a mostly-closet fujo sister). Framing it like this probably just made me not take the entire series seriously and probably why I felt it didn't feel sincere. I didn't even bother with S2 because I thought it wouldn't actually have an incest end (I was wrong, I know, but there's a lot of incest-bait out there that simply does not deliver); so I couldn't even trust this show to deliver on something I love because on some level I felt alienated by it. Now that it's been over I'll rewatch it to completion with, hopefully, fresher eyes and without the constant ugly noise you get when it's currently airing.
>In the end they try and fail to chase down a "true otaku,"
A very important point and one that I stand by. There is no "true otaku" because it's something fundamentally imposed on others by society. But "otaku" can be true and I think it's a matter of passion, investment, and involvement. Maybe that's why Okada thinks there are no more "otaku" around. Buying things and calling yourself "otaku" defeats the point. I will always refuse to label myself as such. I see no point in it. I also don't live in the society that imposes such things on me. And Otaking gets to call himself whatever he wants in my book. That's how much I respect him and maybe that's the mark of a what it means to be "true otaku."
>>15006232
>>15006245
Whether you're trolling or not it's sad to me that there are people who legitimately think like you who are willing to trade huge blocks of their lives to hoard junk. You greentext "fast cars, private jet and womenz" but your plan is to simply conform to the "otaku" version of that "normalfag" stereotype. You confuse what otaku and normalfag even are. They're not matters of possessions but matters of perspective. You're thinking EXACTLY like the normalfags you claim to hate. And just like a normalfag, you bash and trivialize views that are uncomfortable and inconvenient for you while being completely illiterate to the matters at hand.
Stop blogging about your job and life plans and please go back to your home board.
>>15006637
I think the issue here is that a lot of people who share your opinion get into this one drop rule shit, where if I say I liked the Mother's Rosario arc in SAO I'm immediately a piece of shit faker who is just doing it for attention, even though I pretty much keep to myself with this stuff.
So that's why you get these 'troll' or not replies talking about mindlessly buying shit, it's not even worth it to from a subtle or nuanced opinion around what you're doing because all it takes is one daki or one mousepad and suddenly you're everything that's wrong with punk ... I mean anime.
>>15006741
>it's not even worth it to from a subtle or nuanced opinion around what you're doing because all it takes is one daki or one mousepad and suddenly you're everything that's wrong with punk ... I mean anime.
I'm not saying you need to be some cracksmoking squatter to be trupunk oi oi oi. Only that trying to "be punk" is in itself not very punk. You can listen to hip-hop and not be a wigger. Likewise you can watch anime and enjoy otaku content without adhering to a preconceived stereotype of otaku that has been largely fueled by corporate interests. Otaku "types" and labels and the "image" have done a huge disservice to the culture by drawing attention away from things that actually matter to only the most superficial qualities. These types of fans cut from the same cloth--part of the same tribe. I'm trying to say the things that signify otaku the most are oftentimes those that are less visible. I have a dakimakura cover collection along with plenty of other merchandise and memorabilia collected over the course of a decade or so now. I even have a mousepad (though it was a regretful purchase). But almost no one will know about these things because it's not meant for them. And never will I refer to myself as "otaku." Again, that's missing the point. I think people are rightfully upset when others try to buy their way into a subculture; for many, their hobbies are sacred.
>>15004145
>Lolicon is practically integral to otaku culture and history! Don't censor important character points like that!
The lolicon aspect is completely included in Oreimo. All Kirino's hobby is to play little sister VNs.
![FIGURE-018052_01[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cUkbjoH.jpg "FIGURE-018052_01[1].jpg")
>>15006943
Yeah I get what you're saying. I guess I just sort of see the obsessive buying within myself sometimes and get proactively defensive. I just really enjoy scales I think is what it comes down to, probably closer to an old lady who collects hummels than anything else.
I've actually been having an internal debate whether to buy picture related or not. It's a bit pricey and I haven't touched Kan Colle in a long time, but I really like hose and I really like how her legs look. So I guess that little bit of self awareness has some value. I should probably just save the money and put more time into studying Japanese.
>>15007439
I was talking specifically about Welcome to the NHK, which had "lolicon content" that literally involved child pornography and voyeurism but was almost completely removed from anime/manga adaptations. These are exaggerations of lolicon, but they're important to mention when dealing with otaku public image. It was also important thematically and removing it removed character depth.
Oreimo involves some lolicon aspects by virtue of simply involving eroge, but it underplays this by, one, having an otherwise well-adjusted, underaged female "siscon" character rather than a male and, two, by limiting lolicon content to only eroge content. Girls often excuse lolicon interests by saying "the girls are cute" and their interest becomes somewhat of a novelty (a female lolicon!? impossible!); guys really don't have such an excuse, and such an interest comes off as "creepy" and disgusting. At least Genshiken acknowledges how creepy lolicon content in eroge appears to outsiders, only to have characters brush it off by saying "oh but she's in high school" or "it's 2D" or something. I think one of the few places you see unashamedly "lolicon" characters is in loli eromanga. As an admitted lolicon, I just want some more representation, you know? How many times do we need to see The Fujoshi or The Gamer or The Cosplay Enthusiast? It's not like it can't be done, either. I remember there being one in that (awful) MM!! show and a cop-out one in Working.
>>15007852
>I guess I just sort of see the obsessive buying within myself sometimes and get proactively defensive
It's natural to get defensive about things that are important, but I can only say to be wary of the compulsive need to buy things. They use effective strategies, no doubt, but at some point the things you own come to own you and at that point it stops being fun. Your hobby shouldn't be a burden. It should not feel like work.
A big problem I have with people willing to sacrifice so much time just to "buy things" is that there's little room in there to actually enjoy them. I see this pattern with so many people, myself included. Sure when I get a nice figure it looks amazing and I feel really happy for a little while and then the feeling passes and then it's back to the grind. I think I was happiest back when I was a NEET and I could indulge to my heart's content; merch doesn't matter when you have that much free time to actually enjoy your hobbies. The stuff I value most just happens to be some of the least expensive, like sketches and autographs I spent hours upon hours to get, or doujinshi from my favorite artists, or those figures I had to save up a NEET allowance to buy. It makes me think that if you could simply buy everything, it probably wouldn't be worth all that much to you in the end. Memorabilia without actual memories are pretty much worthless.
>I've actually been having an internal debate whether to buy picture related or not.
Don't do it. I got suckered into buying a Kancolle figure because loli character and school swimsuit combo and I immediately regretted it practically as soon as I confirmed the preorder. Now it's just taking up space. Buying to kinks/fetishes is a pretty bad deal unless you're planning to hotglue. Emotional connection is probably most important, aesthetic is secondary unless you're really hot on the illustrator/sculptor or you're a legit figure otaku who obsesses over crafting details or something.
>>15004145
>>15004619
>>15006568
While we're speaking negatively about the portrayal of of otaku in Welcome to the NHK and positively in Oreimo, you mentioned a balanced portrayal. At that point, I'd draw into question how realistic and thought out these characters were. Not because of these details, but because of the rest of the series,
As an aside, merchandise has come up quite a lot in this thread. There's a lot of older pieces I'd love to get my hands on, but I have mixed feelings about buying used stuff at inflated prices. I know that's what happens, but I sometimes feel "cheap" somehow for contributing to some scalper instead of the work I appreciate.
How does /jp/ feel about this?
>>15008676
>I'd draw into question how realistic and thought out these characters were.
All I can say is that at the worst point in my life I was probably exactly like Satou in NHK and it's a very important work to me. I understand that a lot of people love to say that they're "just like a hikki neet" but the novel captures the contradictory shame and angst and perverted joy/comfort of living as a shut-in lolicon drug-addled NEET almost perfectly (I even tried to write a VN with someone and failed). It's much too rare to find something that so adequately reflects who you are and your problems. The characters and drama in Oreimo feel shallow and contrived in comparison. Though I do like how they try to go against the negative stereotypes, the result is "too clean" and they and their problems never felt "real." Because why should they be? They're all pretty well-adjusted, hot adolescent girls, after all; MC has tons of cute girls around him. Yeah they're "otaku" but it's like begging to the choir when you consider who's watching. It's not a really fair comparison by any means since I never finished Oreimo and NHK is just a different show at heart. But when so much media has come out that glorifies or promotes this fun, sparkly image of "otaku" it's alienating when it's so contradictory to your experience.own. And you need more balanced portrayals to get that self-awareness. Yeah, otaku culture is fun, but it's often at the result of some very real sacrifices.
>I have mixed feelings about buying used stuff at inflated prices
You'd be surprised how cheap things can get on the secondhand market, often under retail price. Unless it's especially rare or popular, prices are usually quite decent. Most of my merch is secondhand, actually. Only issue is that the money doesn't go to the original creators, but unless they make that an option, there's not much you can do. Just take joy in the fact that you're helping to keep something alive. I feel sad when I see these old, dusty, neglected figures and stuff. All beautiful girls deserve to be admired and appreciated.
>>15006568
Anime is probably more diverse than it's ever been. Even if there's some popular trend (and there always is), like magic high school battle harem, there's so much different anime on the air that it doesn't matter. Moe has become very important, but it's a style or element that can take on many forms. But not all TV anime, even late night anime, is otaku in a (stereo)typical sense, and if you think about the kind of anime and other works that have been specifically or strongly associated with otaku, they've never been that diverse.
As far as general otaku interests go, manga, anime and games seem to have always been the most dominant, as almost everyone reads manga, watches anime and/or plays games. But they're also a means of expressing interests like military vehicles, guns, idols, trains, tokusatsu or computers (or economics, or cooking, or little sisters).
-
I just re-read what Okada wrote eight years ago, and what he emphasizes the most is that otaku are resilient, self-reliant people who can refuse the norm, go their own way and devote themselves to their interests. He thinks today's otaku are less and less like that, but doesn't explain why. Is it because otaku culture has become more popular and accepted, and there's less of an issue with devoting yourself to it? That would mean he's advocating hipsterism, and even contradicting himself by suggesting that you should not do something if other people are too accepting of it. And he himself was glorifying otaku and pushing for their public acceptance in the 90s. So I don't know what he's getting at.
He alleges that otaku today are less interested in producing their own content, are more like consumers, and don't have the dedication and expertise of older otaku. But then where does all this otaku media come from, if not from otaku?
Something he also says is that otaku is less about what you do and more about how you do it, and has become excessively associated with the former. I guess that's fair point, but on the other hand the interests of otaku have also shifted mostly towards anime, manga and games, and a culture has been built around them. He's right to say that we shouldn't forget about other kinds of otaku, but anime, manga and games is what most otaku are interested in and what they use to express themselves with.
What he's also right about is that there should be more to being otaku than just consuming otaku things, and you should have passion, dedication and knowledge too.
So on second thought, Okada's theories have some holes in them.
Point of discussion:
Is it even possible to meaningfully engage in Japanese media without knowing Japanese?
>>15008140
Child porn and attraction to real children isn't part of otaku culture, and if a character in an anime is a lolicon towards other characters it doesn't mean he's equivalent to a pedophile in real life. It's something that only makes sense in anime and can't be separated from it.
>>15008676
Kirino and Kuroneko don't have realistic personalities (they act like anime characters), but otherwise they are realistic.
Welcome to the NHK doesn't portray otaku negatively, as Satou is not an otaku (not in the anime anyway). His friend and next door neighbor is, and I don't remember there being anything really negative about him.
>I have mixed feelings about buying used stuff at inflated prices.
AmiAmi and Mandarake sell used figures or figures that can't be sold as new. Prices depend on rarity and demand, so they can be cheaper or more expensive than when they were new. Buying used stuff is normal.
>>15009926
Coming from someone who's been enjoying his hobbies in Japanese for 3 years and counting, it's definitely possible to engage meaningfully without knowing the language. Knowing Japanese *might* make it more enjoyable, (that's open for discussion) but it will make it easier to acquire the media. However, while you'll have a lot of common with Japanese fans, you will at the same time distance yourself from the western crowd. The vast, vast majority of western fans don't know Japanese and will never make the jump to learn.
>>15010004
>you will at the same time distance yourself from the western crowd
Is this a bad thing? I don't want to be mean, but nowadays most of this so-called "western crowd" looks like entry-level plebs. Perhaps I just went in too deep...
>>15009734
>if you think about the kind of anime and other works that have been specifically or strongly associated with otaku, they've never been that diverse
That's true. I can only think that tastes have changed substantially. But while there's more anime/manga being produced than ever, it all just feels very...limited somehow. Like it's the same stories and settings told over and over. I honestly don't follow the most recent anime anymore so it's just my very limited impression of them, but they seem very generic in the truest sense of that term (made to fit particular generic conventions). It's like one of the few things that seem to defy expectation is still Eva and perhaps stuff from a tight-knit studio like Trigger. Who's in control definitely matters.
And it's something more to it too. I can't really put my finger on the feeling I get from new shows or why. It's like apathy. Like there's no magic or something. It's scary because I don't want to stop liking anime, but when I watch something older it ends up being amazing and fun again. So what's different exactly? They make anime trying to promote rural tourism and stuff now and toss some moe girls in. Or they adapt a LN based on plot and characters from another LN based on another LN based on an anime or something. Like I keep seeing "chuunibyou" characters now and it's already getting hackneyed. Perhaps the fact that more is being produced in general is in itself creating this feeling of saturation and homogeneity.
>As far as general otaku interests go, manga, anime and games seem to have always been the most dominant, as almost everyone reads manga, watches anime and/or plays games.
SF has been in decline I think, but this is a generational thing. I've heard anime is actually not that well-accepted beyond the most popular stuff and people still think you're weird if you're into it. Manga is practically a normal/mainstream thing now as are games (I think).
>So on second thought, Okada's theories have some holes in them.
You gotta keep in mind that Okada's understanding of otaku is limited to the older generations. He admits that the newer moe generation is incomprehensible to him and that he can't fully understand the sensibilities.
>Is it because otaku culture has become more popular and accepted, and there's less of an issue with devoting yourself to it?
He explains this in a talk in Little Boy (it's on Gwern). He says that the only difference between "mania" and "otaku" is social framing of interests either acceptable or unacceptable, respectively. So if otaku interests become socially acceptable, then by his reasoning "otaku" would no longer be around. I think he came up during a time where solidarity was important and otaku were essentially founding some essential aspects of otaku culture--anime production, doujinshi, GK/figure making, game programming, SF conventions, etc despite everyone else thinking they were weird. It was also a very socially liberal time with lots of youth rebelling and engaging in activism. I don't think it's "hipsterism" but that the otaku identity is necessarily tied with social rejection and alienation and so a part of it would naturally involve contrarianism or "counter-rejection," even if it means paradoxically rejecting acceptance. I'm sure he also fears that this newfound social acceptance isn't genuine and is instead a form of appropriation (which, to a very real degree, it is).
He's right when he says today's otaku are less involved in the actual culture beyond consumption, but this is because a huge industry has grown from it. I think studio structuring is different and there's more money involved than ever. These things affect the product.
>where does all this otaku media come from, if not from otaku?
It comes from otaku who grew up in a different time period and thus probably lack the proper historical background to "get" where Okada is coming from (and vice versa). And because they are more consumption-oriented, this passively prevents them from getting more involved. These are probably those content on just buying things; they were never in a position where they were forced to make the things they wanted. This is a pretty huge difference and probably why it seems new fans are less passionate despite having lots of merch oftentimes. It's frankly why I don't think merch accurately reflects involvement/engagement. It's easy to buy things; it's harder to make things and to really get into them. Shout out to all the doujinshi artists keeping the spirit alive.
>>15010022
Maybe learning Japanese is the same thing as going too deep.
You're part of the western crowd though. And if you don't know Japanese, you won't have any interest in my untranslated manga and light novels, or the visual novels and Japanese games I play at release date.
>>15010052
I live in Japan though.
>>15010059
If you're living in Japan it's a completely different case. Then there's really nothing to gain by sticking to the English fanbase.
>>15009948
>Child porn and attraction to real children isn't part of otaku culture
This is wrong. If I had a link I would give it to you but the history of Japanese BBS, since the 80s and 90s (where otaku were historically known to gather), involved lots of CP/lolita image trading among other things, with lots of boards dedicated to it. Beyond that society doesn't quite distinguish between 2D and 3D and the Miyazaki case set a nasty stereotype for otaku in general so the grouping is still significant in that case.
When you talk about NHK, Satou is portrayed as somewhat of an otaku in the anime, moreso in the novel. Yamazaki is clearly the more otaku and lolicon character, and in the novel he literally gives Satou CP. Even in the anime, he reads Satou's downloads and references, by name, a couple famous girls whose pictures were/are traded online.
>I don't remember there being anything really negative about him.
He's a delusional, lolicon misogynist? He's even worse in the novel. Everyone is worse in the novel.
I'm not saying lolicon are necessarily into CP, just that it's a very real aspect of the culture. Lolicon artists will sometimes sneak in acronyms that reference CP. I'm also not saying that we need full-blown pedos in anime. I just want more lolicon characters in general, preferably with some depth. It's not a secret that lots of people working in the industry are lolicon, yet somehow they're not really being represented.
>>15009926
A degree of cultural literacy (this includes language) is necessary for media literacy. When something as simple as what name or honorific is used carries loads of meaning, it helps to know it.
>>15010004
>However, while you'll have a lot of common with Japanese fans, you will at the same time distance yourself from the western crowd
The sense of distance from the Western community hit me a lot harder than I thought it was. When I visit Japanese communities I feel like an eternal outsider, but back home became hard to have dumb fun with everyone else, waiting for translations and speculating about stupid shit. You lose a bit of the we're-all-in-this-together feeling that the Western community has when it's scrambling for scraps.
>>15010100
This and that are worlds apart. I had a general sense of what all the major honorifics meant years before I knew how to read.
>>15010080
Is there any gain at all to sticking to the english fan-base?
>'ve heard anime is actually not that well-accepted beyond the most popular stuff and people still think you're weird if you're into it. Manga is practically a normal/mainstream thing now
You mean in japan or the west?
>>15010174
reply to
>>15010051
>>15009948
Yamazaki has extreme trust issues when it comes to women, he tends to sperm out a lot and angers easily. I definitely wouldn't call him a bad or malicious person, but he's certainly not healthy.
>>15010215
>sperm out
heheheheeh
>>15010114
>I had a general sense of what all the major honorifics meant years before I knew how to read.
That's just a simple example. I'm sure knowing the language would help you appreciate something like the Monogatari series much more. I'm also talking about general knowledge of culture and especially otaku culture. It's not necessary, but it's pretty neat to know where certain techniques and cues come from. It's also important for referencing, like how a bit of knowledge about the bible is useful for reading literature.
>>15010174
Specifically in Japan. I don't know how long ago the source of that was written, but I just remember reading that anime acceptance has significantly lagged behind manga and games (I think). Lots of otaku tend to be into children's shows and stuff after all.
>>15010224
Heh, guess Yamazaki does sperm out a lot so it makes sense.
>>15010173
Yes, 4chan and the surrounding culture. It might sound like I'm being sarcastic but I'm not. I almost never make posts seriously discussing some anime/game/2D work here, all that is much better done within the Japanese community. But nothing beats 4chan for meta, shitposting, memes, and just general fun. The western community outside 4chan and its spinoffs, though, seems to me to be absolute shit.
>>15010114
>When I visit Japanese communities I feel like an eternal outsider
Give people time to warm up to you, and yourself time to perfect the language. It's not eternal.
>>15010231
2D is a subculture here to about the same degree that it is in the west I think, at least it feels about the same now to me as it felt living in amurikka about a decade ago.
![6424-29736-large[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oRVMqDH.jpg "6424-29736-large[1].jpg")
>>15008209
>aesthetic is secondary unless you're really hot on the illustrator/sculptor or you're a legit figure otaku who obsesses over crafting details or something.
Yeah I like it but it's not good looking enough. The only Kancolle figure I have is this Shimakaze because I liked the look and scale.
>>15010366
Which sites would you reccomend for discussing anime in japanese. Just the anime boards on 2ch?
I could write a book with this thread
>>15010428
Futaba's commentary is usually spot on.
>>15010051
Death Parade, Junketsu no Maria, Yuri Kuma Arashi, Akagami no Shirayuki-hime, Kekkai Sensen, Plastic Memories, Punch Line, Perfect Insider, Sakurako-san, Concrete Revolutio, One Punch Man, Erased, and Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu have hardly been generic shows, and a show doesn't even have to be really original or different to be good (KonoSuba, an LN adaptation, was one of the best shows of the past season).
>I don't think it's "hipsterism" but that the otaku identity is necessarily tied with social rejection and alienation and so a part of it would naturally involve contrarianism or "counter-rejection," even if it means paradoxically rejecting acceptance.
According to what he wrote in his 2008 book, social rejection isn't the goal, it's just something that doesn't matter—the otaku is simply interested in something and will pursue it regardless of what anyone else thinks about it (whether they think good or ill of it). He doesn't go out of his way to oppose society but also doesn't yield to it. Okada started campaigning for more positive attitudes towards otaku, and Gainax produced one of the most popular anime of all time, so he and his cohorts certainly weren't opposed to social acceptance and success.
If you tie your hobbies to social rejection and the social rejection goes away (as it largely has now), then do you need to abandon your hobbies? If so, then you were never genuinely interested in them, and were just being a kind of hipster.
>He's right when he says today's otaku are less involved in the actual culture beyond consumption, but this is because a huge industry has grown from it.
>And because they are more consumption-oriented, this passively prevents them from getting more involved.
Comiket seems to have hit maximum capacity and is limited by its venue rather than the number of circles wanting to participate. Touhou's Reitaisai conventions are bigger than Comiket was in the 80s, and its fan-made anime Memories of Phantasm, A Summer Day's Dream 2, and 秘封活動記録ｰ月ｰ are professional quality. Type-Moon started out as a doujin circle before creating the now wildly popular Fate/stay night series, and Higurashi, Haibane Renmei and Corpse Party started as doujin projects.
And my point was that where are all these anime, manga, light novels and games coming from if otaku no longer produce anything?
>>15010083
There may be otaku who are pedophiles, but it's not part of otaku culture. Otaku culture is strongly oriented towards 2D, and draws a firm line between 2D and 3D. And if otaku are pedophiles more than the average person, then it's strange that we know of only a single otaku or alleged otaku (Tsutomu Miyazaki) who committed sexual crimes against children. Non-otaku on the other hand commit those crimes all the time.
The fact that CP was circulating on BBS' doesn't mean it was an otaku thing any more than CP circulating on 4chan (in the past) means that that was an anime fan thing. There's also pedophile communities on 8-chan, but not everyone visits them.
In the early 80s, the lolicon magazine Manga Burikko had photographs of teenage girls until readers wrote in to say that they aren't interested in them. The photographs stopped appearing as a result, and the magazine went full 2D (which also became softer and less pornographic).
The psychiatrist Tamaki Saitou has also investigated and clinically treated otaku, and his conclusion was that they are sexually ordinary.
>When you talk about NHK, Satou is portrayed as somewhat of an otaku in the anime, moreso in the novel.
He doesn't seem to have any particular interests, and aimlessly bounces from one thing to another. Otaku may be hikikomori or NEET, but that alone doesn't make anyone an otaku.
>>15010454
Sad that many of these discussion forums block foreign IPs. I can still follow the discussion, but i can't bother posting with a proxy.
>>15010511
What was the reason for clinically treating otaku? Even with whatever stigmas there are, that seems excessive.
>>15010511
>The psychiatrist Tamaki Saitou has also investigated and clinically treated otaku, and his conclusion was that they are sexually ordinary.
Otaku sexuality is far from being ordinary, is moved by perversion and hedonism. If it were ordinary we wouldn't have stuff like the superflat movement.
>>15010668
I think what he meant was more that otakus aren't any more inclined towards sexual perversions than non-otakus. I also think he makes a strong distinction between otakus and generic anime/2D fans. Being a waifufag is very far from making someone an otaku.
>>15010469
A question:
Is there a specific cause to poor social skills, awkwardness, "lonerism" and otaku, at least in many cases, going hand in hand? Do socially awkward people become otaku, or do otaku become socially awkward? Either way, what's the correlation?
>>15010706
Based on my own eperience Introvert people are more likely to become otaku, all the time they don't spend socializing is time they can invert in their hobbies.
>>15010658
I mean he had patients who were otaku (maybe I used "clinically" wrong).
>>15010668
Otaku are sexually ordinary in real life. Their perversions are confined to the 2D world. That was his conclusion.
>>15010706
I think otaku are basically the same as any other nerds. Most people probably become nerds because they're unattractive, unathletic, strange, socially inept, socially isolated or uninterested in socialization.
I don't know if otaku/nerds are really all that socially inept or isolated though, especially in adulthood. It seems like more of a stereotype.
>>15010836
I love anal sex in real life too though
What does it mean to be "otacool"?
The pursuit of material possessions should never be the measure of ones character.
>>15010906
It means you hang out with the cool cats, you know how to talk the otaku talk, and walk the otaku walk
>>15010967
My feline friends are to furry for freezing, so I definitely don't have what it takes.
Thanks, Tonya
>Bait thread becomes in depth discussion.
I love you, /jp/
>>15010469
>Okada started campaigning for more positive attitudes towards otaku, and Gainax produced one of the most popular anime of all time, so he and his cohorts certainly weren't opposed to social acceptance and success.
Again you need to take into consideration the cultural atmosphere they grew up in. Positive attitudes were most certainly needed after the Miyazaki incident, and it's not like anyone hates success, but it was success after working hard at something that was remarkably unpopular and ill-advised. I'm not sure if anyone could predict that Gainax would become as big as it did. To say that the way society views you "doesn't matter" is to be too naive about it. I'm not saying that the contrarian attitude is necessary, but that it sort of naturally comes out when you feel like an outsider to begin with. It's not about being "cool" in a hipster sense, it's very much a way to cope--to simply accept and embrace the fact that people think you're uncool or "socially unacceptable" or whatever it may be, and to come to spite the people now trying to take away even that by "making it cool." It would seem to me that Okada himself has fallen victim stereotyped thinking, since he believes that younger otaku don't qualify as otaku because he doesn't understand them which is an overgeneralization. But trust that I do understand where he's coming from. It's similar to everyone suddenly becoming a "gamer" now that it's popular and cool. He has a right to be skeptical. But we were talking about this earlier: what they do should not be the litmus test (e.g., what games they play), it's the knowledge and dedication they have to their hobby that fundamentally dictates otakuism. And in my eyes, getting so worked up over a label is pretty pointless. It's just people doing their thing at the end of the day.
>And my point was that where are all these anime, manga, light novels and games coming from if otaku no longer produce anything?
Well I never said they don't produce things anymore and I'll have to check out those shows you mentioned (OPM was good). We're talking about a subculture coming to about half a century old now? It's natural that people growing up on it would make it. I only stated my feeling, which at this point I'm pretty convinced is because of saturation. WIth too much being made, I'm starting to, unfortunately, feel apathetic towards it all.
There's still the issue of whether or not higher-profile media (i.e., not doujin) are capable of telling otaku stories like they did in the past or if industry is somehow stifling it. This seems to be a common point made by older otaku (no more Yamato/Gundam/Eva, etc.), who grew up with shows that injected these messages into them. I personally think it's an issue of newer creators telling their own stories which are just different from older ones, but where do they get them from? I still stand by my point that industry necessarily limits expression and media value is essentially predicated on profit, not art or storytelling. That's just how the system works. Though that you and I both acknowledge good things coming out only means that industry is still controlled, in large part, by otaku themselves. I think about this a lot, actually, and it's a little peace of mind.
>>15010511
>There may be otaku who are pedophiles, but it's not part of otaku culture.
You realize that the way you split hairs is not the way that society as a whole sees it, right? And when "otaku" as a construct is framed by society, what society sees is of more consequence than what otaku personally think. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is.
>And if otaku are pedophiles more than the average person, then it's strange that we know of only a single otaku or alleged otaku (Tsutomu Miyazaki) who committed sexual crimes against children.
Thinking pedophilia = committing sexual crimes is already wrong. Possession of CP in Japan was AFAIK mostly legal until recently where it became /lightly/ criminalized, like a slap on the wrist if you get caught with it. If they see it like that, just how many high-profile wrist-slap cases do you think we'd see? Meanwhile, high-profile Western cases involve guys who have both 2D and 3D material, but now I'm going on a tangent. This doesn't really matter because those aren't the guys I want represented anyway.
>The fact that CP was circulating on BBS' doesn't mean it was an otaku thing any more than CP circulating on 4chan (in the past) means that that was an anime fan thing
When you make BBS dedicated to lolita images, it's a little more than a rando trolling a thread by posting CP for shock value. I think you have it in your head that CP is so awful and terrible that it's impossible that there could have been otaku who were really into lolita images. But you should keep in mind that Japan is much more lax about it and it probably didn't carry the stigma then and there that it does here and now. It's also weird that you would deny any connection between people with a Lolita Complex and lolita images. The attraction to JS/JC girls is sometimes very much more than 2D, there are definitely some artists who trace and who are familiar enough with pedo search terms, so please don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise. It's not always the case, but don't deny it when it does happen.
>In the early 80s, the lolicon magazine Manga Burikko had photographs of teenage girls until readers wrote in to say that they aren't interested in them.
Doesn't mean that all readers didn't want it, but the ones who did want it could have easily just bought photo collections of underaged girls. Again, this stuff is not as scandalous as we make it out to be. I also think lots of 80s lolicon readers were themselves creators of the material, so there's also that motivation to focus on a "lolicon" genre of manga.
>Tamaki Saitou
Dude is a psychoanalyst so I already don't trust him in that regard. He might have something to say about hikkikomori (if even that), but I'm extremely skeptical about anything he has to say beyond that. He and his ilk love to take a few case studies and overgeneralize from them. Frankly, what an outsider has to say has little to do with what has been actually going on.
And again, I'm not calling for child-raping pedophiles in anime. I just want some normal lolicon dudes that aren't some dumb joke is that too much to ask?
>He doesn't seem to have any particular interests
He knows a lot about psychedelic drugs and collecting CP among other things. I wouldn't call him "otaku," just that he displays otakkii behaviors and lots of trivial knowledge around certain things which is more pronounced in the book. My fault for being unclear.
>>14999357
Yo, Nyaruko was the best thing I've come across, hit up so many of my interests.
Why is the layout in this thread so fucked?
>>14985731
Afaik the person moved and the setup no longer exists.
I've seen it on at least 4 boards/sites.
I very much enjoy reading this thread. Thank you for your thoughts, everyone.
>>14971964
No, I am not.
>>15015146
No windows? Is this underground?
>>15015153
The window is on the other side
>>15015156
>filename
Now I must end myself, I am sorry /jp/
>>15010511
I think I can expand a little bit on this CP trading thing as I saw the Western incarnation of it myself in the 90's on usenet and IRC, although inadvertently. If you people think 4chan had lots of CP on it you would have drowned on usenet. Maybe it's only natural I ended up here after seeing all the things I did back then as a kid.
One of the most interesting phenomena of the nascent personal internet was the establishment of digital currencies. At a time when bandwidth was extremely limited and VERY pricy, you gained access to a community by sharing the burden. Even if you didn't enjoy a particular genre or manga/game, you thought about ways to acquire it to help with further trades and increase your own influence in the groups.
Bizarre or rare porn was quite treasured by certain people, and the illegality of it would only increase its value. The internet was wild and the government had no idea how to police it. Add the thirst for information and access that we had back then on that "frontier" and you have a recipe for some questionable decisions.
It wasn't an absolute necessity to trade in the illicit things, especially for the more innocuous (and small) things like video game ROMs, but it really did help.
FBI, I swear I deleted it every time I saw it and it wasn't my fault it was crossposted into every fucking group. Also I was a minor and you can't prove anything.
>>15015146
>>15015156
Honestly that looks pretty comfy, I'm working right now with that kind of lifestyle in mind
>>15015156
Hikikomori in Japan!
>>15010668
>Otaku sexuality is far from being ordinary
Nope, they're perfectly normal.
>moved by perversion and hedonism
Because they are otaku (duh!), meaning they're not just casual consumers, but deep researches of the subject. This just shows they are deep into stuff and nothing more. There is absolutely nothing "different" in this.
