I want to hug Lambdadelta
>>14968252
I don't understand this. Chapter 0 clearly says Showa 58, which is 1983, so does that mean only the part with Miyo is in 1983 and the rest is in 2016? But she's talking to NotRika in chapter 0, so that doesn't make any sense. And in chapter 0 they talk about the phone lines being cut, but why would that matter if they have cell phones? I'm confused
>>14968600
the fuck is u talkin about
>>14968608
https://tarabletranslation.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/when-they-cry-the-first-and-last-gift/
That image is from Chapter 0 of the Hotarubi no Tomoru Koro ni manga.
>>14968618
No, it's from chapter 1
http://marumaru.in/b/origin/135300#
Good morning, Furudo Erika
>>14968600
Those backgrounds are either traced photographs or CG, right? At least they look like they are. In a way I guess that ties pretty well into Higurashi and Umineko, since they used photographs for backgrounds as well
Why did they change the last chapter of Higurashi for the PS2 port? Was Matsuribayashi not well recieved in Japan or something?
![x1nMj[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/S7V95XH.jpg "x1nMj[1].jpg")
Reminder
>>14969084
beato
Did somebody say... E R I K A?
When did Erika replace Bern as the Coolio of shitposting?
>>14969627
Bern was never shitposting.
There was just the Bernrper that made it so.
Erika was always shitposting.
Can someone post some of those Bern and Lambda "relationship" moments from the manga?
I am trying to over analyse something here.
>>14969627
Bern was more the face of trolling than shitposting.
>>14969699
This probably isn't what you meant, but I'll post it anyway because it's cute
>>14969627
I dunno I have seen some severe bern sp In my day.
>>14969744
Does a clean version of this image exist?
Is this really howtabascois supposed to look? The Onikakushi manga has good art in general, but I always thought this part looked a bittoo much like actual blood. But then again, I'm not really sure how else they would do it, without being too obvious
This is what happens when one gets over-exposed to Seacats. Please make sure never to over-expose yourself to Seacats if you don't want to turn out like this.
>>14970185
Seems like a creative post, what is the problem?
>>14969699
>>14968252
I want to fug Lambdadelta
>>14970216
Why they hate each other at the same time they love each other, seems that they both "force" it.
Could anyone wall of text me if you need, about this?
Who or what is Pendragon?
>>14970311
This man.
>>14970239
Same.
>>14970343
That's literally a picture of me.
>>14970311
This man.
>>14970216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JsIirg2CSw
![[DameDame!] Umineko no naku koro ni - 07.mp5_snapshot_11.26_[2016.03.20_19.07.19].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IvuvnlB.jpg "[DameDame!] Umineko no naku koro ni - 07.mp5_snapshot_11.26_[2016.03.20_19.07.19].jpg")
Bump
How does this game get off on having such bad art. Sure people make fanart, but that does not change the fact that the original game's art fucking sucks. There is no excuse.
>>14971618
I guess the story is more important to most people. A lot of people like the original art as well. And the PS3 port has updated art, so at least there's that
>>14971618
>game
>>14971618
>reading VNs for the art
>>14970245
The sex is really good.
>>14971717
They never do it.
>>14971725
Not on-screen, no.
>>14971725
I remember a bit of dialogue in Ougon Musou Kyoku implied they have fucked before.
>>14972257
Yeah, but OMK also has dialogue suggesting Virgilia is still a virgin, which I find hard to believe.
>>14972603
Virgilia can't be virgin because of this fat fuck.
>>14971618
>I play VNs
>>14971618
It's not that bad and it's certainly not as bad as Higurashi's. Quit whining.
>>14972624
Virgilia and Kumasawa aren't the same people.
Reading episode 7 (the visual novel), and, having been spoiled on the whole Shkanon thing, holy shit. This is fucking obvious as hell if you picked up on even one or two of the hundreds of clues in the last 6 episodes.
beato
>>14973663
Yeah, Episode 7 makes it very obvious that they're the same person, and also that they're the culprint. You'd have to be kind of stupid to not realize that after reading it
>>14973663
Going back and rereading 1-4 made me realize how really fucking obvious some things were, and also kind of made me want to punch Battler for not catching up sooner.
I want to face and thorat fuck Erika while having her wrist binded in duct tape.
Objective Umineko waifu/husbando rankings 2016
>Literal God/Goddess Tier
Rudolf
Rosa
1998 Ange
Dlanor
>Bretty Gud Tier
Natsuhi
Meta/Troll Beatrice
Chick Beato
Lambdadelta
Auaurora/Ikuko
>Alright Could Be Better Tier
Krauss
Elder Beato
Gaap
Virgilia
Ronove
Battler
Tohya
>Meh Tier
Genji
>Fucking Furry Tier
The Chiesters
>Trap Tier
Shannon
Kanon
Yasu
Lion
Claire
>FAT Tier
George
Gohda
>Monkey On A Keyboard Tier
Bernkastel
>How To Catch A Predator Tier
Sakutaro
Maria
Smol Ange
>Fish Joke Tier
Kumasawa
>Worst Possible Fragment Tier
Erika
Eva
>>14974774
>God/Goddess Tier
>Rudolf aka "Swapping babies and killing my whole family"
>Rosa aka "I never wen't to Hokkaido"
>1998 Ange aka "I can't handle the truth"
Dlanor is the only correct choice desu.
>>14974774
>Bretty Gud Tier
>Auaurora/Ikuko
>Monkey On A Keyboard Tier
>Bernkastel
Kill yourself
>>14974774
Wrong
>god tier
Eva Beatrice
Erika
Natsuhi
Rudolf
>>14974774
>>14974812
>Rudolf
You guys are into getting cucked right?
>>14974774
Very accurate, however
>no DESIRE tier for Kinzo
>no Pegging tier for stake sisters
>>14974774
why isn't Bernkastel on goddess tier.
>>14975295
Literally shitposting mate, ignore it.
>>14975295
>loli edgelord with magics
>>14975329
excuse you
>>14975383
>Bern
>loli
>>14975423
literally thousands of years old
>>14975423
She's literally a witch version of Rika, who is 10.
See pic
>>14975431
"it's not pedophilia, she's literally 1000!!!"
>>14975423
She is less loli than Rika, but she is still loli.
>>14975463
She has tits and she has an adult body. She is not loli. Your shitty ps3 sprites and Deen dakis are only pandering to the loli Rika fanboys.
>>14975383
>>14975463
shitfucking posting
>>14975479
this guy said it
>>14975463
Fuck off
>>14975479
Well, yeah, but most fanart not interprets her as preteen or around there, ever since Alchemist and DEEN made her look like that.
Also, loli is really just a young girl-like attitude/figure, which is pretty much what Bernkastel was made to look like. At least in DEEN and Alchemist's adaptions.
>>14975493
>>14975498
no u
>>14975525
>which is pretty much what Bernkastel was made to look like
Not true. Ryukishi's art doesn't do this and neither does Deen's outside of the dakimakuras. Ryukishi's is the only one that matters in canon anyway.
>>14975540
See what I said right after that. I know that Ryukishi just meant to have Bern look like Rika, but not loli like her.
>>14975479
>Your shitty ps3 sprites
Come to think of it, I wonder how it would have looked if Bern had a portrait in the original game, since those were made by the PS3 port's character designer
>Second game, first twilight
>The gold truth locks the lock of illusions
What did he mean by this?it's phrased really terribly
>>14975944
The door wasn't locked, and from what he says about game 4, it seems "the gold truth" refers to the lies Yasu created. It kind of makes sense if you think about it
Has there been any info on who's doing the music for Trianthology? It has to be Dai, right?
Also, I assume there won't be voice acting, as ususal?
>>14974774
Well, you got Dlanor right, at least
>>14975978
>Everyone except Battler is in on it.
>No tricks in episode 4, just a bunch of false testimonies.
I've got nothing against a bit of unreliable narration here and there, but that's just bullshit.
>>14976351
>a bit of unreliable narration here and there
Almost every trick in the VN is based around false testimonies
>>14973710
>>14973663
There's something I don't get with Ep 7 (although maybe it's because I'm reading the manga instead) but why did Will say that "Everyone helped each other" can't be right aside from 'there's no evidence'?
>>14976351
Would you prefer key tricks?
>>14976351
I'll make a list of all culprints and accomplices in all the games
>EP1: Yasu, Genji, Kumasawa, Eva, Hideyoshi, Maria, Nanjo 7/16
>EP2: Yasu, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Maria, 7/16
>EP3: Yasu, Eva, Hideyoshi, Nanjo 4/16
>EP4: Everone except Battler 15/16
>EP5: Everyone except Natsuhi, Krauss and Erika 14/17
>EP6: Everyone except Erika 16/17
If you keep in mind that 5-6 people die on the First Twilight of game 1-4, you'll realize that all games except 3 only has 1-4 people who aren't in on everything after that. I don't see why Episode 4 is such a problem in that case
>>14976639
>EP5
>Everyone except...
>Battler is an accomplice
How is "Oh, I'm pretty sure I didn't see whether it's really grandpa" made him an accomplice?
>>14976712
>He hasn't read the manga
Everyone who sees Shannon and Kanon at the same time is an accomplice, which Battler does in Episode 5 and 6
>Shkannon
>Kanon is either Shannon or Yasu
>Part 7
>Shannon can't call Kanon
>But Yasu is already Lion
>So Shannon will be Kanon instead of Yasu being KanonSO YASU IS A BOY?????
>>14976946
losing your dick doesn't make you not a boy, anon
>>14976953
Wait, who was interested with Battler? Shannon or Yasu?
>>14976964
What do you mean? Shannon is Yasu
>>14976964
keep reading
>>14976973
When did the original Shannon stopped becoming Shannon?
>>14976990
I am. I'm in part 8 already
>>14976992
Yasu/Beatrice took the obsession Shannon had with Battler.
>>14977002
Oh I see.So Schrodinger's dick is still a moot point, then
>>14976946
I have no clue what anything you wrote here is supposed to mean, but yes, Yasu is a boy. Or at least he was before he got his dick ripped off
>>14974774
Where is Jessica?
>>14977408
She is my wife, and so doesn't make the list.
Does anyone have those comics?
Where people were like:
>Let's cut those butters
>WHOOPS! I accidentally slit your neck
>There are no culprits, only stupid people
>>14978751
I only have this one
>>14978771
Eva had a hard life
>>14978779
That's not even mentioning how the only one who survived in her whole family thinks she is a murder and hates her.
>>14978771
Why is Hideyoshi more obese than George?
>>14978751
>>14978833
Yeah, that one. Still looking for that "everything is an accident" comics, but at least we got this "no culprit" part right
Does anyone have the pic of Beatrice giving a thumbs-up and creating a thread about how you can't prove that magic isn't real?
>>14978751
I don't have accidental neck slitting, but I have this.
>>14978858
There is also the one where they find the gold, give Ange to Eva and go on a world trip.
>>14978751
Unfortunately not.
I could offer this in exchange.
>>14979166
That's the smuggest seacats picture I have ever seen
I love it
>>14978751
http://marrten.deviantart.com/gallery/26434664/Umineko
>>14976639
>everyone except Erika
Erika killed everyone though. She admitted this. In red.
>>14979373
Accomplice in Episode 5 and 6 refers to accomplices in the "pranks" everyone played on Natsuhi/Erika, not in the murders. Only Yasu and Erika had anything to do with the actual deaths in those two games
>>14978882
That part was so disconnected with everything else, and never explored again, I wonder if she was just acting or not.
What chapter does it happen on the manga?
So who was the worse dad, Kinzo or Rudolf?
>>14979402
The easiest way to explain it is that the accomplices in those two games were just pretending that people had died, to fuck with Natsuhi/Erika. But then Yasu/Erika killed them for real afterwards, without anyone else knowing
That's why Battler is an accomplice, even though he would obviously never agree to being involved with killing anyone
>>14979456
well Rudolf was a shitty husband and a rather bad dad to Battler, but at least he seemed to be a pretty OK dad to Ange. Kinzo wasn't a decent father to anyone. And Rudolf never showed any unhealthy interest for his own daughter.
Both Kinzo and Rudolf killed lots of people for the gold.
>>14979456
Kinzo fucked his daughter and then forced the incest child onto one of his sons' wife.
Then she threw it off a cliff. Then ignored the child until a few hours before his death.
Don't forget cheating on his own wife with his mistress AND their daughter.
And the 900 tons of explosives hidden under the island.
On the other hand, Rudolf switched around his two girlfriends' babies at birth. He gave his wife's miscarriage to his lover, and the lover's child to his wife. But, after that, Rudolf was a decent father who cared for both of his children, Battler and Ange, while Kinzo abused his children.
Hard choice, to be honest familia
>>14979456
>>14979675
I've always thought Rudolf would be a cool guy to have as a dad
>>14979453
The manga actually cuts out everything after "Did you call yourself a surivor...? then, ...you also..."
>>14976946Yes, and Lion is as well. Just accept that you're gay, and everything will be easier.
Goodnight, seacats. Please tell Lambda I love her.
>>14979882
As long as I have porn that shows Lion as a cute girl, Lion will forever be a cute girl to me.
>>14980466
I'm mad that there's no hentai of Lion with a dick. He's always a girl
>>14980466
You don't deserve Lion if you are unable to accept her penis.
I've already accepted that Sayo Yasuda is a boy. But why does everyone assume that Lion is the same gender as Yasu? Lion's alternate universe already has a few differences. Natsuhi accepts the child, Kinzo lives longer, Battler never returns, etc. And according to the manga, Lion doesn't even have the same appearance as Yasu. So why does everyone assume that they're the same gender?
>Renon
>Leviathan
>Manon
>Mammon
Well, it only took me five or six years.
>>14980807
If you want to go with official explanations, the tweet about gender equality pretty much spells it out.
In-universe, there's no reason for him to be a different gender since he's the exact same person. An in-game explanation is kind of pointless though since he doesn't even exist--unless you've made the mistake of accepting witches and fragments as real.
>>14980807
Yasu is a girl who was born with a penis. Lion is a boy.
>>14980836
>mistake
Witches exist.
>>14980856
>girl
>born with penis
Choose one.
>>14980836
Huh, I never saw that tweet until now. Guess that clears that up.
>>14980122
No.
>>14980856
>girl
>born with a penis
>>14980861
>>14980953
She's a girl in her heart. You can't ignore the heart.
>>14981033
I am taking the heart into account when I say Yasu is a boy.
Yasu is a boy who thinks that he is a girl at first, then later knows hes a boy and just wants to be a girl. If you were trying to argue that the personalities of Shannon and Beatrice were female that I'd agree with, but biologically Yasu is male, and thats pretty much the bottom line.
>>14980640
I don't need Lion, I just need to fap to Lion sometimes.
>>14980807
Because die cis scum
>>14981062
It's possible that I'm Yasu.
>>14979882
Then I guess Lion should've a penis in lewd pictures
>>14981112
Fan art can do whatever it wants, its non canon.
>>14981109
Make sure you don't kill anyone
Is the episode 8 manga really preferable over the VN?
>>14981352
Yes, the only thing that's better in the VN version is that Ricordando il Passato plays during the drowning scene
>>14981352
No, but it's a nice companion piece.
>>14981352
If you read the manga version instead then you'll miss out on the Bern minigame.
>>14981352
It's much better storywise, but the VN version has Bern's game and the music so it's hard to say which is more preferable.
>>14981370
Drowning scene is better in the vn and not just for the music. And it's arguably the most important scene in the ep.
Fuck this, I'm reading the EP8 manga and vn at the same time.
>>14982060
That sounds like a terrible idea
>>14982060
Play the game first, then read the manga. There's enough original content that you won't get bored.
>>14982060
That's an awful idea actually. Go with the VN first.
>>14982060
You baka-ass motherfucker.
>>14982060
Cool beans. At least you'll know which music track should be playing as you read the manga.
5 > 3 = 7 > 1 >= 2 > 4 > 8 > 6
>>14982599
>tumblr
5 > 6 = 8 > 3 = 4 > 1 > 2 > 7
5 > 3 > 7 > 2 > 4 > 1 > 6 > 8
>>14982696
Who are you quoting and why aren't you subscribed to a bunch of anime titty tumblrs?
3 > 1 > 2 > 4 > 6 > 5 > 8 > 7
>>14983140
He's quoting the image filename are you stupid?
5 > 4 > 7 > 2 > 3 > 1 > 6 > 8
>>14982910
Man, I wish I could like 6 and 8 that much.
>>14984484
Pachinko Battler looks almost exactly like Battler from the manga. In fact, all the pachinko sprites look almost exactly like the designs from the manga.Even the shitty Krauss sprite looks like the manga, just go see for yourself
>>14972603
Everyone who isn't married is a virgin though. That includes Battler, Genji and possibly Nanjo.
>>14985017
>and possibly Nanjo
You mean his son is adopted?
>>14972257
I would like to see/hear this dialogue
>>14985017
>Everyone who isn't married is a virgin
That's not how it works. Also, Genji used to be a handsome young man, there's no way he's a virgin
>>14984588
Designed by the same person iirc
>>14985106
Almost right, they weren't actually designed by Natsumi Kei, but they were based on her designs. I'm guessing they did that because the Episode 8 manga was running when the pachinko game released in 2013
Was Umineko influenced by The Magus by John Fowles?
>>14985160
>Nicholas is gradually drawn into Conchis's psychological games, his paradoxical views on life, his mysterious persona, and his eccentric masques. At first, Nicholas takes these posturings of Conchis, what the novel terms the "godgame," to be a joke, but they grow more elaborate and intense. Nicholas loses his ability to determine what is real and what is artifice. Against his will and knowledge, he becomes a performer in the godgame.
I don't know, but this actually sounds kind of similar
>>14985080
I can't read runes so I'm just going by what others have said with this.
>inb4Tumblr
>>14985135
Natsumi Kei's official fanart of Umineko is just too good. Bless her heart
>>14985237
Wish I read moon
>time is off by an hour
>set it back to correct it
>turnips spoil
all of my ~4k turnips are gone, kill me
>>14985338
wrong thread, wrong board, what the fuck
>>14985344
Somehow you still managed to post a relevant picture
>>14985237
>今夜は残忍なあなたに抱かれて眠りたいわ。
I'm not confident in my translation skills, but here's the second line. The first one is just Lambda praising Bern.
>>14985358
According to Google Translate it's
>Want is sleep being held in brutal you tonight
My Japanese sucks, but I'm pretty sure she says something about sleeping together
>>14985378
I'm still a novice but I find that sometimes it helps to break it down.
>今夜は
Tonight
>あなたに抱かれて
Held by you
>眠りたい。
Want to sleep
>残忍な
And then there's this.
>>14985408
残忍なあなた "the merciless you"
>>14985408
So it translates to something along the lines of "I want to sleep while being brutally held by you tonight" then? Unless I got that completely wrong
>>14985435
Close, but I'm pretty sure she's referring to Bern as brutal. So it would be something like "Tonight I want to sleep while being held by the brutal you"
>>14985060
It was never stated that he was married, so it's always possible.
>>14985094
I'm just joking. The only ones who likely never had sex is likely Jessica and George.Maria obviously had sex for that free food.
>>14985797
I'm pretty sure Yasu never had sex either, considering the gender thing. Battler might have been a virgin, but he also molested his cousins, so who knows
>>14985835
Battler's probably virgin. Yasu can't even achieve proper arousal. Why do you think he's so angry?
>>14985797
Jessica really didn't do a whole lot of anything exceptget her skull completely smashed by Kyrie.I guess she never really stepped up to take charge of her station in the family, but that's about it for negatives.
>>14985861
I would have let her sit on my face
>>14985846
I like to think that Battler and Ikuko fucked. They lived together for decades, it must have happened at some point
>>14985861
She did try toresist Kyrie and put up a fight even after being shot though, which is why Kyrie had to smash her face in so bad. I mean, she did end up dead,but it's still kinda badass. The world just didn't deserve someone as good as Jessica.
>>14985900
Yeah, and that's what sort of makes it all the worse. I didn't mean she sat around and did absolutely nothing and was worthless.She just was a total victim to everything that happened and even then fought to prevent becoming one. Her romance with Kanon was stupid though. I still thought the scene where he guides her blind was cute in spite of it all.
>>14985900
>>14985934
I still hold the Moon-chan theory snugly in my heart. I wish it had turned out to be true.
>>14985941
What's it about?
>>14985870
Do you thinkYasu as Kanonwas sexually attracted to this semen demon?
>>14986003
There were several incarnations. Basic premise is that Jessica is either Beatrice, the culprit, or both. I always liked the idea that she was the man from 19 years ago and also Battler's sibling that wasn't actually stillborn. Name comes from the tarot cards that had Jessica as the Moon. Lots of discussions about this in the archives. When episode 7 first came out, people flipped shit because of Lion.
>>14985900
Jessica was one of the very few characters that totally didn't deserve the shit that happened.
>>14986051
None of the cousins did
>>14986161
George and Battler are both little shits. George even admits he could have prevented the whole thing from happening if he hadn't been such an ass.
Been out of the loop for a while. What's Ryu-chan's next project? Is When They Cry in Space still happening? I just want another WTC rollercoaster
>>14986261
Trianthology is his next project, no space WtC
>>14986275
Well why the fuck not? Honestly, it's been so long. I just want another ride like Higurashi and Umineko.
>>14986289
Trianthology is the space thing, but it isn't part of the WTC series
>>14986289
>I just want another ride like Higurashi and Umineko
Hotarubi no Tomoru Koro ni started 3 days ago, now we just have to wait 4 months for chapter 1 to be translated
>>14986261
Right now he's working on Trianthology, which was supposed to be released in 2014, so noone really knows when it will be released.
In addition, he has 3 manga running right now (Hotarubi, Iwaihime, and Country Girl) and one manga that hasn't been named yet, which will start later this year
>>14986604
Oh, and maybe I should mention that Country Girl is part of Trianthology. It's co-written by Tanaka Romeo
>>14985835
Yasu doesn't exist. People who don't exist can't have sex.
>>14985338
Rip turnips
>>14986849
Erika, Yasu exists. It's Lion as we see him with Will who doesn't.
>>14983593
'Who are you quoting' is a /jp/ meme. If you're going to be rude and call someone stupid, know your shit.
>>14985338
WITCHES
>>14985338
Daylight Saving Time helping farmers really is bullshit.
>Shannon is, in the truest sense, Kinzo's handmade furniture, which he created without borrowing the power of demons.
How the fuck did I not realize what this meant? I feel so stupid now
>>14987675
Jesus I don't even remember that. Surely the Shknanontrice guys brought that up.
>>14987675
jesus christ ryukishi
He really does love dropping the answer in plain sight.
>>14987675
I just realized that Krauss' death entry in Episode 3 confirms that Eva was the one who pierced the corpses, and not Yasu. And George's entry somewhat explains why Yasu wrote the bank PIN on the wall
Goodnight Beato, whereever you are.
>>14987774
Nanjo's entry explains pretty much everything. It says that he would have survived if more time had passed, which pretty much confirms the theory that Yasu didn't know Eva solved the epitaph. If more time had passed, she would have found out, and wouldn't have killed himYou hear that, Rikafag? Yasu killing Nanjo isn't a fucking plot hole
>>14987882
No, it means he was unlucky and got killed in the end.
''he would have returned'' means he would have returned back from the island. Nothing more. Not that he would have survived he wounds.
I don't see anything that says that shows that Yasu could have known about the epitaph being solved after Nanjo's death. Just as there's no evidence that Yasu didn't know that the Epitaph was solved.
>muh Yasu isn't omniscient
An alternative explanation is still a 3rd party murder, other than Yasu, such as George or Kyrie, whichever theory you believe in. He was going to survive and got killed, the end.
>>14987906
>''he would have returned'' means he would have returned back from the island
Yeah, that's the point. If Yasu had found out that Eva solved the epitaph sooner, she would have let him go, instead of killing him. What else is it supposed to mean? He would've been killed by the bomb sooner or later anyway
>>14987882
>>14987906
Also, to expand since I think I poorly explained it, Nanjo would have survived just a bit longer, if the killer was either George or Kyrie, as both had been wounded. Two possible theories (Rosatrice, and Kyrie being the one who killed everyone in ep 3) easily fit the description presented. Either George was bleeding to death after being shot by Nanjo, or Kyrie, who was also bleeding to death after being shot by Eva. Though I prefer the cynical theory that Eva had nothing to do with the murder of Rudolf and Kyrie and it's Hideoyoshi who defended himself and shot both of them. It's funnier that way.
So, again, had Nanjo gotten a bit luckier, George or Kyrie would have died of blood loss, as confirmed in red later by Beatrice, since they were on the verge of dying.
This does not prove that Yasu did not know about the Epitaph being solved.
>>14987913
There is no evidence that Yasu ever found out that the Epitaph got solved. There is equally no evidence to suggest that Yasu did not know from the start that Eva solved the Epitaph and found the gold with Rosa.
>>14987913
No, he would have been saved with Eva and Jessica.
The plot hole is that the red states that once the Epitaph is solved, the murders done by Beatrice ends. People try to get around it saying it was a different persona, Yasu didn't know about the Epitaph being solve, etc. But the fact stills stands that the red is a promise, solve the Epitaph, and no more murders by Beatrice.
This is why it still makes no sense for Yasu to kill Nanjo without going ''muh omniscience'' bullshit, as though Yasu couldn't monitor the only small house where everyone was hiding and didn't notice two potential victims leaving alone one by one.
>>14987950
>as confirmed in red later by Beatrice
confirmed their death*
Stupid me, the red only confirms death, not the moment of their death, which is a loophole.
>>14987950
The manga spells everything out, so I'm not sure what you're going on about here with causes of death and culprit speculation.
>>14987962
>the manga
I'm allowed to have my own interpretation of events. It's more fun that way.
>>14987950
>The plot hole is that the red states that once the Epitaph is solved, the murders done by Beatrice ends
When does that happen? There's no such thing listed here, unless I'm overlooking it
http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth
>>14987974
Ok, so you can just make things up.
>>14987976
No worries, anon. It's just his interpretation.
>>14987976
I miswrote that. The red only states people being dead. Not when they died.
For example, the events show that Hideoyoshi, Eva and Kyrie were found dead but they aren't confirmed dead on the spot. Beatrice states in red that all three people are dead. You make the assumption that all three are dead at the moment that they were found, since you trust the red, but it doesn't guarantee that all three had died at that time, only that they were shot.
There's nothing stating that someone, say Kyrie, could have survived her gunwounds and then stumbled upon Nanjo, killed them walked away then died of blood loss. The red was done at the end of the game, so, by that point, Kyrie is considered dead in red. Battler never examines the bodies and they cannot be considered dead, only Nanjo checked their bodies and he could have lied or been wrong.
Rosatrice proposes a similar proposition concerning George, that he was waiting for Shannon to be revived, got furious at Nanjo who defended himself but didn't kill him. So George woke up later, found Nanjo, killed him and then died. Thus, the red confirmed that George died but not when he died.
This is basically how you get around the ep 3 red web. The only possible candidates of who killed Nanjo are Yasu, Kyrie and George.
Concerning Yasu, had Yasu 'known' about the Epitaph being solved a bit sooner, Nanjo would have been alive. Concerning George and Kyrie, had either died of their wounds earlier, Nanjo would have been alive.
This does not confirm that Yasu had not known about the epitaph being solved.
>>14987994
>Ok, so you can just make things up.
Just like you can make things up like Yasu not noticing Eva and Rosa leaving the guest house.
Not much is known about what happened in ep 3, so it really is up to your interpretation.
It's basically a double devils proof on both sides.
Fucking nerds...
>>14988009
So there's no plot hole at all then? Then fuck off! I don't care about your personal interpretation, but I do care about you bitching about plot holes that don't even exist
>>14988024
You're really bored, aren't you?
>>14988024
No, it's a plot hole because Yasu shouldn't have ever been allowed narratively to kill Nanjo, nor does she have a reason. You have to bullshit by saying Yasu didn't know about the Epitaph being solved somehow when Beatrice confirms it in red.
>I don't care about your personal interpretation
See image >>14988009
It's possible to show a different truth by using different interpretation. Just because you put your fingers in your ears doesn't mean it's not a red truth.
The authenticity of Yasu being allowed to kill Nanjo, when the red explicitly states that it's impossible is a plot hole.
I've seen it disputed from all side, that Yasu isn't omniscient, that Yasu is a separate entity that somehow is above the meta and meta-Beatrice, that it doesn't matter and that Yasu just wanted to kill for fun to be with Jessica because fuck logic.
Again, this >>14987882 saying that Nanjo would have survived had more time passed does not prove that Yasu solved the epitaph. The plot hole is still present.
If it sounds like I'm saying that there isn't a plot hole, you are mistaken, I am simply laying out all the plausible theories. If you accept one of them, good for you, I don't care. Rosatrice, Shkannon, theory theories theories. All fun and games. Make up your own mind on what happened, either through me, discussion or the manga. All that matters is if it gets you a greater understanding of both the stories and morals. If you can't understand that, we'll too bad.
>>14988037
No? Why do you ask? It's just that Rikafag said before that the Episode 8 manga showing Yasu killing Nanjo was a "plot hole", and I wanted to prove it wrong, because it isn't a plot hole
>>14988055
Nah, you just want to play a little.
>>14988054
Oh, so she did say it in red. I didn't find it on the list because she doesn't directly mention the epitaph.
But I'd still argue that it wouldn't count if she didn't know. She doesn't directly say that the killing will stop, just that she will keep the promise. My point is that she can't necessarily keep it if she doesn't know that the conditions for it have been fulfilled
>>14988072
Juju, you truly don't understand human arrogance concerning discerning theories. People are truly biased and ignorant concerning alternative viewpoints. We have this naive feeling of wanting to be optimistic, that we can change the mind of someone else, simply by show them they're wrong, make them see your side of things. But more often than not, the other side doesn't want to hear it.
The history of scientific progress is very similar. It's filled with a ridiculous amount of biased condescension, rejection of opposite ideas and theories until it's proven right, even the smartest of men in human history have been unable to get out of this biased view. It's pathetic and sad, and the fact that no one can get beyond this is sadder. There's a weird sense of smugness.
This is the true message of Umineko, in my opinion. We search for the truth, but we're so biased and arrogant that we're unable to accept opposite viewpoints and must look down and ridicule others.
Just look at that arrogance and distaste at the mere mention of my personal interpretation. >>14988024 He doesn't care, he just wants to prove me wrong, mixed in with an optimistic and naive sense of possibly changing my mind. But this could be, of course, blind projection on my part.
But sometimes, even through that cynical viewpoint, progress and understanding can be made. People aren't complete fools, ignorant and refuse complete evidence.
I'd like to think people are better than that.
>>14988087
Why wouldn't it count? It's stated in red. Does the fact that Yasu didn't know matter? This raises so many question and why I think it's a plot hole.
Narratively, if Yasu didn't know about it, how could it be said in red that Beatrice keeps her promise that if the Epitaph is solve, the murders end? How can truth not be truth?
Meta-Beatrice is the embodiment of the rules and game on the island. If she says in red that the game ends when the Epitaph is solved, it makes it so. Unless directly mentioned that there are secondary conditions.
Another point to bring up is is the Knox 8th, that all clues must be presented. What clue is there that conditions have to be met for the red not to apply?
This ''condition'' is going to be, of course, that the family members ''had' to tell everyone that they found the gold and only then would the murders end. But where is that mentioned by Beatrice or a rule? The rule is simply to solve the Epitaph and the murders by Beatrice end. That's it.
This ''conditions'' bullshit is just a way to keep the same position by weaseling out of the answer.
It's a plot hole. Solve the Epitaph, and the game ends. It's that simple. In ep 3, the game ended, Yasu shouldn't have killed Nanjo.
There's also the bullshit someone might bring up criticizing the red, saying that the red only says that she fulfills that promise, not the entirety of said promise. Or some other bullshit to get out of the red truth.
"All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!"
>>14988137
You got me. I applaud you. Pls don't mind me. I'm just watching.
>>14988137
I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying that you can't have personal interpretations, that doesn't bother me at all. I just don't want you to call out plot holes in the manga that aren't plot holes.
And I still don't think it's a plot hole. To be honest, I trust the manga more than I trust you, since it's written by Ryukishi. None of the other fragments on that page are lies or wrong, so I don't see why only the one with Nanjo would be. But I guess that's just my interpretation anyway
>>14988158
Wait, come to think of it; of course the fragment would be wrong if it really was a plot hole. That's what a plot hole is after all
Well, it's 8AM now, so I seriously need to sleep. We can discuss this more some other time
>>14988143
Truth brings a greater understanding of the world around us. The explanation of causality, although messy, has a greater benefit than accepting nihilism or denying cause and effect correlation. The journey to finding the truth being more important than the destination itself, but never accepting that the destination itself is meaningless?
Just because humans are flawed in their pursuit of the truth and their view of the truth does not make the pursuit invalid in of itself. To me, it just means that humans are flawed idiots.
I'm always reminded of that proverb where a bunch of people look into a vase through a small holes under different angle. All of them see something different but neither is wrong. And everyone claims that their view is accurate and that everyone else's is wrong. That, to me, is the core understanding of human nature. Different interpretation of the same source we call life, arguing over the same damn thing, killing each other and arguing endlessly over it.
Heh, now that I think about it, I guess that's what Umineko is about. Except we're reading what people wrote when they saw through the small hole of the vase.
Is that quote from Umineko or did you make it up?
>>14988158
Yes, and your interpretation that the manga is more accurate than my interpretation is perfectly valid. Sorry if I misunderstood you, I assumed I couldn't have personal interpretation, as you didn't care for it. Or maybe I stupidly correlated not caring with not being allowed to have an interpretation.
I still think that it's a plot hole, unless it was George or Kyrie that killed Nanjo not Yasu. But that's my interpretation. Yours is that the manga tells the truth completely without fault. Without red herrings or falsehoods.
Or perhaps, you're missing a small piece of a puzzle, that you think that small fragment of a page, that Nanjo was killed by Yasu to be the only part where the manga lies. As you say, if it's all truth, why would there be one small lie? A chessboard switching could provide answer perhaps, who knows.
>I trust the manga more than I trust you, since it's written by Ryukishi.
Also, bla bla bla, death to the author, not that it means anything since >>14988009,
>it's possible to show a different truth by using a different interpretation. Appeal to authority doesn't and should discern interpretation.
I say it's a plot hole, you say that the manga is truth and that there is no plot hole.
>>14988214
>Is that quote from Umineko or did you make it up?
Umineko.
>>14988214
It's a quote from Umineko, by Erika Furudo.
>>14988228
>>14988229
I was sure it was but I couldn't be sure, so I had to ask. It's funny, Erika isn't wrong in that quote but she also isn't right.
![img000011[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2SPJGHE.jpg "img000011[1].jpg")
Ok so I had a theory about Ep3 that might explain why Yasu keeps killing.
What if Eva never actually did solve the epitaph? Was it ever stated in red that she actually did? Maybe instead she was just bribed by Yasu and she agreed to kill to complete the ritual? This page in Ep7 saying they were bribed confused me but I think my theory would explain it. Also as shown in Ep1 and Ep4 Yasu has no problem killing after the ritual is over so there's nothing wrong with killing George and Nanjo
Still there are a couple of things it doesn't explain. Why did only Eva survive in the end? Maybe Yasu failed in killing her and she escaped, but how did she know about kuwadorian? It still doesn't explain the 07151129 written on the wall. Also what about that scene where Rosa met Eva at the gold pile? Did that even happen?
>>14988214
Brevity is a virtue, my man.
>>14988214
>I say it's a plot hole, you say that the manga is truth and that there is no plot hole
Yeah, I can agree to disagree. It doesn't really matter that much in the end anyway, and we'll never get a conclusive answer either. Maybe Juju was right, maybe I was just bored and wanted something to discuss
>>14988295
>what if NOTHING actually happened?
This image is you. You obviously can't trust anything that isn't red, but at the same time, you need to trust something. You have to put *some* measure of trust. The keyword being some, which people always equate that to basically trusting literally everything. Nor am I implying that everything should be doubted. Equality of duality creates stability. Absolutes on both ends are unhealthy, and absolute skepticism and absolute trust should be seen as such.
As for whether or not Eva solved the Epitaph, she likely got the ring immediately after finding the gold, as it's shown in ep 3. In ep 1 and ep 4, killings continue because the epitaph was not solved. You are confusing the ritual with the epitaph. Killings only stop for Beatrice, not for the entire game.
See, for example, two can play the game of the whole ''where does it say in red that'' when I could ask ''where does it say in red that Eva and Hideoyoshi were bribed? I personally think that everything that isn't meta happened in ep 3 except for Eva being with Hideoyoshi.
Also, do not equate ep 3 to be Prime. It only shows a slight truth of what happened on Prime but not its entirety. And I don't mean that Kyrie killed everyone, the end, sort of truth either.
Narratively, I think most things shown in ep 3 are truthful to a certain degree. Ep1 was mostly true narratively except for when Kinzo was around, but it was not caused by magic. Ep 2 adds a big more untruthfulness, but only when the meta is involved. The same is true for Ep 3 but more cannot be trusted. Ep 4 is where nothing happened, literally.
>>14988316
Making sure my point and thoughts comes across is more important to me than brevity. I'm also too tired to be brief in my train of thought.
>>14988333
Well, depends. I've already figured it out to a large extend and I'm content with both the answer and morals the story has given me. I'm just discussing to possibly lead people to find their own similar meaning and answers to the story. The plot hole, to me, is a possible step to see a large theme of Umineko, which is why I don't mind discussing it.
I'm just naively optimistic about helping others find the truth without telling them directly. No free answers is more fun, even if people always bitch at me for being cryptic and not giving a straight answer, basically almost seeming like I'm arguing for the sake or arguing.
>>14988348
>>what if NOTHING actually happened?
that's not what I'm saying you idiot
My understanding of the rules is that a scene can be fantasy if it involves the culprits/accomplices or someone is about to die, which means the Eva finding the gold scene could be fantasy if Eva was an accomplice all along (but that doesn't explain the Rosa + Eva seeing the gold which is why I brought it up)
Also about the ring, do we even know if Eva had it in EP3? I don't remember if it showed her having it or if there was a red truth about it. I know she had it in the real world but we all know EP7 tea party is was really happened and EP3 was just a forgery.
>you need to trust something
In this case I'm just putting my trust into the EP7 statements instead of what Eva claims happened. And I'm putting trust into Beatrice's word that she would stop the killing after the epitaph is solved. (I honestly have a hard time believing she didn't know it was solved and found out later)
Not that I think this is really what happened, I'm just thinking up alternate theories to try and explain Yasu's actions in EP3, which is one of the only parts of umineko I just can't think up a good explanation to.
I had another theory that maybe Yasu is acting differently to all the other games because EP3 was written by Tohya and maybe he didn't have a complete understanding of Yasu's motives yet? Still that's probably just me overthinking it and there's probably even some red that contradicts it that I'm forgetting.
>>14988471
>but that doesn't explain the Rosa + Eva seeing the gold which is why I brought it up
The only explanation I can think of for that is that Rosa could have been an accomplice as well, and that none of that really happened, kind of like in Episode 4. And then Eva killed her afterwards anyway, because she's a cunt
That's kind of a stretch though
Why do people only talk about her killing Nanjo? She killed George after the epitaph was solved as well, at least according to the manga
>>14989447
Fuck, that's actually from Episode 4. I messed up, just ignore that
>>14989447
>>14989483
But you're not wrong; Will and Clair don't include it but the most likely to kill George in the third game was Shannon.
>>14987906
>An alternative explanation is still a 3rd party murder, other than Yasu, such as George or Kyrie, whichever theory you believe in
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on this boards who's actually read the manga
>>14989628
>BEFORE Nanjo was killed
Well, that's it then. It literally couldn't have been anyone but Yasu
>>14989773
But Yasu was never mentioned in the early parts of the story, so it's impossible for her to be the culprit.
