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You are currently reading a thread in /jp/ - Otaku Culture
You are currently reading a thread in /jp/ - Otaku Culture
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP7utU8Efow
"a disaster waiting to happen" is not a phrase I use often but...
>>14941447
I can see a bunch of cables on tiny streets looking pretty but that's way too much
Here, all of that suff goes underground.
But Japan is prone to earthquakes so it's not like they have a choice.
>>14941897
Uh. California has been wiring their shit underground for a long time and it reduces damage to infrastructure.
>>14941447
taken with a telephoto lens it looks bad but from the street level looks the usual
お兄ちゃん電話だよ
newer sections of that area don't have overheads
>>14941897
Actually being underground is safer. There are several factors to consider here:
>Near surface soils modify the incoming ground motion often resulting in amplification at the ground surface.
>Seismic waves are reflected at the ground surface resulting in constructive interference and higher ground shaking at the ground surface.
>Structures respond due to resonance resulting in amplification as we go higher in the structure.
So structures below ground, like subway tunnels, often have less intense ground shaking than structures at the ground surface. They are also restrained by the surrounding soil so they do not resonante as above ground structures. So in general the loading is a lot less.
A good example of the difference between below and above ground shaking was when the bullet train was in a tunnel during the 2004 earthquake. The ground shaking was small in the tunnel but increased once the train came out of the tunnel and above the ground surface resulting in among other things derailment.
>>14941447
>>14942737
>>14942880
Absolutely disgusting
>>14942737
>>14942880
I already hate christmas lights because of the tangles.
I'm pretty sure if I saw this face-to-face I'd go temporarily insane.
Not even Mexico is so messy
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Toryanse-crosswalk-oji-2011.ogg
Asians
>>14942894
Earthquakes aren't the problem with burying cables though. The issue comes from capacitance rise and planned outages.
Capacitive line voltage rise leads to high voltage on the receiving bus, and this is prolonged by issues like light loading and long length of line.
Second issue is line maintenance, have to dig up the wires for wash. Any lineman will tell you it's a hassle.
>>14944391
>Capacitive line voltage rise leads to high voltage on the receiving bus, and this is prolonged by issues like light loading and long length of line.
Can you expand in simpler terms?
>Second issue is line maintenance, have to dig up the wires for wash.
You have to wash the wires? That's weird. Like literally the metal cables? I don't see the roads being dug up that often.
>>14944391
>Second issue is line maintenance, have to dig up the wires for wash.
I don't know about other places, but here they use sort of like a sewer system for all those wires and cables, not connected to the actual sewers, of course.
If anything needs maintenance, they just open a hatch, don't dig up anything.
>>14944391
>dig up the wires
what the fuck
>>14944463
You basically don't want excessively high voltage at the bus. They operate at a voltage the same way your computer, coffee machine, or vibrator operate at a specific voltage. The issue is, voltage is dictated by line loading and load drawn. If a line is lightly loaded, it stores power. It's capacitive. If it's heavily loaded, it actually goes the other way, it's inductive and reduces voltage at the bus. When you throw a line underground, it's insulator is no longer air, it's the earth, or plastic. Unlike air, earth and plastic can have some conductive metals mixed in. It's not going to ruin anything, but it will lead to higher energy storage. Lines are also typically bundled underground as well, and GMR increases the voltage. It gets even worse under water. Typically underwater power lines are DC to resolve the capacitance issue.
You do also have to wash the wires. Doesn't sound like much, but think of it like your car. Except you drive that car 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It's going to get a little dirty over the course of a year or so. If you get dirt on power lines, it affects the ability of that line to transfer power. Also, with line loading changing like it does, it heats up and cools down. This causes it to expand and contract. That is physical wear on the line.
>>14944489
This is good, but wires won't be exposed underground. Again, washing would come far too often. You'd have to open up their enclosure, whatever it is.
>>14944639
i came for some japanese street pics and ended learning something of value.
>>14944012
>hey senpai, should we install central ac in this joint?
>nah senpai
>>14944782
these are old buildings
>>14944711
Power lines are my job. Fun fact I work with phd students and I barely have my bachelors. I got in because I was a power otaku. I take a lot of pictures of substations
SF6 breaker for 230kV line. Old ones used oil.
>>14945675
Same substation with oil-filled breaker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_-OTZHBIuE
>>14941447
One rainstorm happens and the electrical infrastructure needs to be reconfigured.
What if bird falls on?
>>14945406
You're a cool dude.
>>14945406
>I take a lot of pictures of substations
In Japan? Always wanted to work in power lines. Hows the pay? The job itself?
>>14941447
This is triggering. But there must a good reason to not have underground lines.
>>14946211
Birds are fine as long as they stay on one leg. The cables are isolated anyway.
>>14950217
Not in Japan (yet... I want to someday). The pay and job are amazing. $85,000 US a year. 90% easygoing, 10% heart-attack terrible.I usually just play kancolle at work
Took this from my phone a while ago.
>>14951104
Well, aren't you lucky.
>>14952225
That's very pretty, thank you.
>>14952451
Here's the thing though, you don't need a degree to be a system operator, but you do need certification. Those jobs pay more than my engineer job, but its shift work.
>>14951104
Aren't you scared of becoming like that guy who lost his face from being electrocuted doing that job?
>>14952595
Nope, because I don't make contact with any lines
It's also more costly to place infrastructure underground. It's much faster and cheaper to do it via poles.
>>14941447
It's part of urban jungle with ethnic music and old dirty thundering trash mechanisms.
>>14952871
Isn't it dangerous if there's an earthquake and these come falling on my head? They're literally everywhere
>>14944012
>AMD_headquarters.jpg
Is this cyberpunk?
>>14951104
>I usually just play kancolle at work
Wait what? So its an indoor job?
>>14944012
>>14944782
This looks bad until you realize that it's still only one AC unit per apartment.
>>14953735
What do you mean?
>>14952855
Post more pics pls
>>14953716
Yeah, I'm usually in the office. I monitor SCADA data points and go to these substations on my own.
>>14954311
Right, I always imagined it was more an outdoor job.
>>14951104
>Not in Japan (yet... I want to someday)
I get this is /jp/ and all but the possibility of that is almost impossible. It seems like you're making good money. It would be better to just save and go on vacation to Japan for long periods of time.
>10% heart-attack terrible
What do you mean by this?
>>14952595
I think as long you follow the safety rules your good to go. People get lazy and shit happens. >>14952543
>but its shift work
Does this mean it's limited work out there? Or you have to work different times every week?
>>14945685
>>14945675
>>14945406
Seems like a great way of killing yourself. I'll remember it.
>>14955679
>possibility of that is almost impossible
I definitely agree with that. The power industry is extremely conservative in the states and I imagine that same conservatism is true of the power industry in Japan. They probably don't want foreigners working on their grid.
>What do you mean by this?
Most problems the electrical grid faces are usually beyond people's control, like weather events. Every once in a while though, it's caused by inaccurate load forecasts and sudden outages in areas of the electrical grid. This is what happened in 2011 with the blackout in San Diego. A line was being worked on, then it suddenly tripped and couldn't be returned to service. Basically, when stuff like that happens, work really sucks. Ever since that 2011 incident there's been a lot of "close calls" the public doesn't really hear about, and those "close calls" are the worst days to be working.
>Does this mean it's limited work out there? Or you have to work different times every week?
It just means rotating shifts. The desk has to be manned 24/7 and operators work 12 hours a day for 5 days a week, then you take like 2 weeks off. Long shifts suck but social games make it a lot easier. They don't require tons of concentration and you're generally "available" if something bad happens. Plus the control room is kept really dark and you're given a comfy chair to work. There's actually plenty of work out there for grid operators, it's just that handling high-stress situations doesn't come easy for a lot of people.
this is the kind of thread i want to see whenever i come to /jp/
>>14942494
why is that pic doctored? You can tell its been retouched
>>14957069
Can you tell by the pixels?
>>14953343
I don't know how it goes for Japan. I'm not informed on city code for earthquake prone zones (which have very different rules from where I live, which is primarily disaster free).
I mean technically any pole is at risk of falling if it is under significant enough duress. Japan most likely compensates for the earthquake-y nature and requires extra study wood and additional depth per meter height. I'm not a Japanese civil engineer.
>>14954311
Interesting. What city do you work in? I actually help develop a SCADA front-end which focuses on city infrastructure, such as utility poles.
>>14958076
Loveland. Our group doesn't monitor utility, only bulk electric 100kV and up
/jp/ - Power Grids
>>14958103
Colorado? Nice. But yeah. We see a lot more usage in Denver, and other cities primarily. Though we assist in telemetry for the entire state.
>>14958164
Yeah, up north. Wish we got more snow this season.
>>14958042
>extra study wood
They're all concrete actually. Too humid for wood. They make a lot of preparations on their utility poles, and Japanese people don't seem to care where poles and towers go like people everywhere else in the world. Their zoning pretty much let's them put stuff anywhere.
But the point is that if I get close to one of these lines if they fall in an earthquake, I'm dead right?
>>14959476
At least it would be quick. Be aware that even if it doesn't fall directly on you, there is something called step potential where electricity kind of pools on the ground, and you can be electrocuted even if you're a little close. Just stay really far away from fallen poles.
Concrete poles have bigger problems if they fall over though
PRESENT DAY
>>14956517
I'am in BC Canada. Was just wondering what path one has to take to become one. Is this also callled Power Engineer?
>>14957061
Yea. I find 2hu has ruined the board. The games are good and all. But runs this whole board.
Quebec is one of the largest hydro electricity producer in the world. Here's the sound of rain falling on 735 KV lines.
https://youtu.be/WAT7YlZIlvk
>>14959983
There are power engineers and there are grid operators. Grid operators don't need a degree, they just have to have NERC certification. Power engineers also need this certification to do certain things, but they can still do grid-related activities until they're certified. BC's balancing authority is BC Hydro, they're the ones that hire grid operators.
Here's the informational sheet on the exam you take to get certified: http://www.nerc.com/pa/Train/SysOpCert/System%20Operator%20Certification%20DL/2015_NERC_Exam_Resource_Materials_Final.pdf
There are a lot of training sites out there, this one's common: http://www.o-t-s.com/
>>14959570
PRESENT TIME
>>14945406
>I take a lot of pictures of substations
When I was a journalist taking pictures of power substations and the like was a guaranteed way to get "concerned citizens" up in my face asking me questions/calling the cops.
Also what the fuck, why is the big jay educated and employed and shit all of a sudden
>>14961965
Did you try wearing a hard hat? That's what I do.
>>14961965
The passage of time is a terrible thing.
>>14961965
>Also what the fuck, why is the big jay educated and employed and shit all of a sudden
Shit needs to get done.
>>14961965
I think it's fitting for a power otaku to be educated in that area and have a job related to it.
>>14962873
Pretty much all news organizations have rules about trying to deceive people, and wearing a hard hat to avoid attention would fall under that umbrella. Reporters are supposed to be up front about their work unless absolutely necessary.
>>14962874
>>14962918
Those dreamlike days of reading manga and NEETing it up at 4AM weigh heavily on my heart...
>>14962925
True.
>>14963061
oh my god
>>14941447
earthquakes man
>>14960907
Thanks mate. Looks like a good job. But difficult to use some where else no? Like the US or something. I don't know what the future is for these kind of jobs.
>>14964931
Actually NERC certification applies in Canada, US, and Mexico. All of them share a grid so certification like that works all over. I think Texas is the only exception, you don't need NERC certification to work on that grid.
Fun fact, Texas has it's own power grid.
>>14964944
>Texas has it's own power grid.
This is what I mean by that.
>>14961965
>Also what the fuck, why is the big jay educated and employed and shit all of a sudden
Time goes man. Can't stay in the same place for too long. Don't hold on to anything just let it go.
>>14964944
Thanks for the info. Does the future of power engineers and grid operators look bright? There's obviously going to be work in places that developing. Maybe even third world countries. Not sure how you can convert your certificate to some third world country's version but I'am sure there will be work in those places. How to find and get work over there seems hard.
>>14961965
>>14962874
>The passage of time is a terrible thing.
This hurts me so much. Especially when you haven't been able to do what you want to do. And yet time is moving forward.
>>14964986
This is just my impression, but it's actually having the Japan problem of too many old people and not enough young people to take their place, and just like Japan they're on the brink of having a crisis. That's also mostly what I mean when I say the grid operators are very conservative. They're mostly really old guys that don't have anyone to replace them.
I just googled this and it doesn't really support my case but those are my feelings while I'm working there. http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/power-plant-operators-distributors-and-dispatchers.htm
>>14963180
>Pretty much all news organizations have rules about trying to deceive people, and wearing a hard hat to avoid attention would fall under that umbrella.
Actually it's more that if a person is wearing the right outfit and shouting orders, people are geared to just automatically assume that the person is legit.
There's a great example in the Illuminatus books where the MC used it to illustrate how most people will follow even nonsensical orders if given in a tone of authority: he stops several cars in the middle of traffic, shouting, "Bavarian fire drill! Everyone out! Stay in line!", getting the perplexed drivers to follow him in marching in a circle around their cars before then getting back in as if nothing had happened. The name itself is a reference to the old prank of a "Chinese fire drill", where the passengers in a car stopped at a sign or light all get out at once and get back in different seats.
>>14965066
Checked the site good info. These kind of jobs are very limited. Either you get luck or know somebody. It's very tough to get in just like that. Unless you move to a place where nobody wants to work in.
>>14964952
what the hell happened to Arkansas?
>>14945406
Mind if I ask, how did you become a power otaku? I had no idea this sort of thing could be neat, but after you started posting about this stuff I'm kind of interested now too.
>>14966450
I grew up in a house under a 345kV line. It buzzed with corona loss and it probably drove me insane because I studied everything about that line and just thought it looked cool. Plus a professor in my electrical engineering courses told me that microamps and millivolts are boring, Megawatts and killivolts are way bigger and exciting.
>>14965133
This type of behaviour is actually what I'm referring to when I was talking about "avoiding attention." In this case, I'd be disguising myself as an electrical worker so that I could take all the pictures I want without being questioned by local busybodies who think I'm a terrorist.
Thing is, what I'm doing is actively deceiving people, which journalists aren't supposed* to do as routinely deceiving people to get the news debases your integrity. Some outlets have policies of firing and blacklisting journalists who do these kinds of things without prior approval. Prior approval is, of course, impossible to get outside of situations where deception is absolutely necessary to getting the story and/or not getting the journalist killed.
Either way, very interesting discussion Power Engineer-kun.
*Smart journalists know when it's appropriate and profitable to bend the rules.
If you guys don't mind, how did you all get into this hobby. Its amazing. Reading through this thread has me interested in power, and I just think its a really cool thing how into it everyone is. It's really cool, and I've found myself dipping my toes in a bit. I live near a substation, dunno know what machinery is there for sure, but i do gaze at it during my commute.
>>14967521
Electricity's become such a trivial thing in our lives. The lights always come on when we flip a switch, and they don't when the weather's bad. For some reason, at least in America in particular, we don't like thinking where that electricity comes from, so we disguise our power poles, hide power lines underground, and make them sort of "blend in" so we don't give them much thought. I agree that power lines ruin really pretty landscapes, because it's a reminder that humans are constantly interfering with nature. We generate power from coal that disrupts the Earth's climate and that's all really bad.
The truth is though that electricity has advanced society a great deal, and I just have a deep respect for the feat of engineering that is the power grid. A ton of work went into the power lines and stations that allow us all to live a better life than our ancestors. These generating plants cost the same amount as like 100 disneylands, and they work 24 hours a day. Thousands of people work to make sure I can post on /jp/ about touhou or kancolle. It's *fundamental to society* that the electricity stays on so I can do that.
All I started doing was asking why engineers and linemen did what they did. Why is there a pole here or there? Where does it go? Where exactly does my power come from? I just took pictures of the stuff and just asked what it was. You can google every part of a substation, and all that stuff just interested me. Breaker schemes and all of that stuff is beyond me, I admit. Mechanical relays are totally nutso, if you ever google that. Now computers do it because it's obviously way more reliable.
I think what impresses me most is how BIG it all is. A lot of these generating stations cost more than 100 disneylands but I pay like $20 a month to draw power from it.
>>14954311
How would one go about getting such a job? Are there any education requirements, or can you sign a contract agreeing to work for 'x' amount of time and be trained on the job?
>>14969465
Thanks for the detailed and provoking response. I enjoyed it.
>>14970588
Some of the dispatcher jobs are on-the-job training. Minimum high school experience. The higher-up-the-ladder grid operator jobs still only require high school education, but also certification. If it's a local utility, probably doesn't take much. If you want to work at a balancing authority or transmission operator, they tend to look for experience.
I work with a guy that was a lineman for something like 40 years then just worked his way up.
>>14941447
Do EE in japan die by starvation?
>>14964952
>Florida has its own grid
Y-yeah. Go us.
>>14977262
EE?
>>14941494
the peak of hip-hop
>>14977462
Electrical Engineers
>>14977313
well it's actually attached to the eastern interconnection. What they have is their own regional reliability organization, which is FRCC.
Disneyworld is its own balancing authority, which means it generates power for itself, and could, in an emergency, sell power to other balancing authorities. They use natural gas I think, all I know is that they call the generators Ercot 1-3. They just got a solar farm shaped like Mickey too.
>>14977262
Comp Sci doesn't. And since EEs are hand-in-hand in how much love they get with Comp Sci.
Nope.
I think you're really cool power-otaku-anon
When I was in highschool, I used power plants and lines for most of my photography projects, there's just something cool about them
polite sage
>>14941447
what would happen if i tried to fly a kite?
>>14990753
You'll rediscover electricity.
>>14951104
Why the hell is your wage so high?
