I've been learning the Japanese titles of Touhou music.
How did translators get "A Maiden's Illusionary Funeral" out of "Shoujo Gensou"?
ZUN translates that shit himself.
Or it's just an english title he gives to the song.
>>14757157
Because the 葬 in 幻葬 means funeral.
>>14757205
So is it right or wrong to translate it that way?
>>14757214
>>14757157
You know how the games themselves have a Japanese and English title? Think of the music that way.
>>14757181
>>14757253
A Maiden's Illusionary Funeral is the Japanese half of 少女幻葬 ～ Necro-Fantasy.
>>14757255
Not him, but now that I look at that I'm inclined to think "Necro-Fantasy" is meant to be an English counterpart to "Illusionary Funeral." Necro (funeral) Illusionary (fantasy). So I think the translation of Gensou makes sense.
>>14757157
I'm pretty sure that about half the translated titles up to MoF are outright wrong but I can't make myself use any other titles.
>>14757535
Bad translations? That's simply unthinkablenatural law.
Many translations in the western fandom are terrible yet have been indoctrinated for so long that nobody has bothered to say "No you idiots this is wrong, this is how it's supposed to be." and that nobody will change the way things are anymore either.
>>14757157
How would you translate it? "Girl Phantom Funeral"? 幻葬 doesn't appear to be a word in itself.
>>14762447
The games now at least have better translations thanks to thcrap
>>14762447
I'm still pretty certain Rumia's name is supposed to be Lumia (maybe), but people are just too used to the former name and refuse to change it.
>>14762447
Even recent translations have that issue. Remember that WaHH page that got passed around about how the youkai have to get their food from somewhere?
>>14762447
That does happen, but when it does the fandom resists, anyway. Like you said, it's because it's so indoctrinated.
People end up wanting to keep it for no more reason than it sounding cooler. So even when it's correct it's not seen as being worth the fight to change and standardize it. You may be able to change it in translation, but people will keep using what they want.
See somewhat prickly stuff like "Bitch get out of the way" which persists, UNL which is still in occasional use, and the controversy over Fantasy Heaven -> Fantasy Nature or Sumizome -> Ink-black in Yuyuko's theme.
>>14757181
>ZUN translates that shit himself.
Zun doesnt speak ENglish.
If I, a native English speaker had to google "runagate" then how the hell did a man who doesnt speak English know it?
Fuck, when was the last time you saw an English speaker use phantasmagoria?
>>14765987
The vocabulary of the average Joe and Jane is not that extensive though, anon.
ZUN is in the right here, not his fault that we're too uneducated to use such beautiful language.
>>14757157
>>14757214
Shoujou meaning maiden, and gensou meaning illusion, but here gensou is not 幻想 and is instead made up of 2 words, illusion/apparition and funeral/burial. I think it's a good translation. And as >>14757269 indicated, "Necro-Fantasy" is probably not a randomly chosen name.
>>14765987
ZUN doesn't speak English but that doesn't mean he doesn't know English at all m8
>>14765201
>that WaHH page that got passed around about how the youkai have to get their food from somewhere?
I haven't started reading WaHH yet but I happened to be hanging here when that page was first passed around. Didn't know that it was a wrong translation though, what is it supposed to actually say?
>>14766436
>ZUN doesn't speak English but that doesn't mean he doesn't know English at all m8
So you're telling me the average anon here who doesnt speak Japanese will know some of the more obscure and complex words in the language?
Honestly though, I like Zun's English titles. They have a certain charm to them. Most of them anyway. Mountain of Faith was kinda boring.
>>14766460
Obviously if you don't know Japanese and have 0 interest in the language, you can't know such words. ZUN probably does have an interest in the language, even though he didn't learn it well enough. If you read stuff in ancient language, or stuff that uses words within a specific field of words and terminology, you can know obscure and complex words that the average speaker would have rarely encountered, if ever.
As for the titles, he generally -if not always- manages to find charismatic names in English for the games. It works most of the times for the music too, but it's more important for the games.
>>14766460
ZUN is just as capable of fooling around on wikipedia and in the thesaurus as anyone.
>>14765321
>"Bitch get out of the way"
Out of curiosity, what was this supposed to be? I always thought it was great though so I kind of prefer for it to be kept.
ZUN is a motivation to extend my vocabulary. You don't see the word "apotropaic" or "phantasmgoria" everyday.
>>14768641
He is a pretty intelligent man.
>>14768585
IIRC (2lazy to check) it's just something like "outta our way raymoo!", contains no hint of insult but rather exasperation.
>>14768585
Or so Touhou Patch Center says
Wait a minute.
Lunatic.
Luna.
Moon.
ZUN is amazing.
>>14768641
definitely. I feel the same. I love coming across new spell cards and being forced to look up a new word I haven't seen before.
>>14772046
What tipped you off? Kaguya's theme being called Lunatic Princess? Luna Child being partners with Star Sapphire and Sunny Milk? The title of Cage in Lunatic Runagate?
>>14774848
I just never really thought about why he used Lunatic so much. But I just realized how it's associated with the moon people. Sometimes I think ZUN has a better understanding of English than most native speakers, I doubt many people are familiar with the etymology of lunatic.
>>14775966
As a native english speaker, I feel that's what we lack. we do have words in our language that can carry dual meaning in context. He delved into that deeply I feel.
Anyone know what the origin of the term "foughten field" is?
>>14776693
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foughten
>>14775966
>I doubt many people are familiar with the etymology of lunatic.
I thought most people were familiar with it.
>>14777193
No, people are pretty stupid these days.
