So now that the dust has settled, do you think LoLK was a good game? Or are you one of those losers that think Point Device mode ruins the game?
>>14736383
1. This isn't /v/
2. The game was clearly rushed.
Junko is Miko tier final boss.
Extra stage is literally copy paste from stage 3.
The cast was forgettable besides Clownpiece, Hecatia and maybe Sagume but that's only because they look really silly, not because their designs are good (a fucking flag and weird t-shirt).
Point-device does ruin the game because it was clearly balanced around it. No one plays Legacy and goes "Oh yeah this is definitely the way it was meant to be".
Shottypes were boring and samey.
The only good thing that came from this game was the music. Everything else was just mediocre.
it's the best game because it has sagume in it
>>14736460
The early stage LoLK characters are more interesting than Raiko and the Tsukumos from the previous game.
>>14736460
You say this isn't /v/ but you're talking like it.
no new shoot types :(
except pointdevice mode no new feature
Sagume has a nice character design (personally i like it)
Clownpiece => classic difficulty spike (only a few interesting spellcards)
Final boss => Junko, she gives me the feel "die bitch", no beautiful patterns, just pure danmaku for killing (nice idea)
i still dont beat extra so i dont talk anything about it.
But honestly, Nuw Toehoe music is good.
TLDR: Characters 6/10 (because Doremy´s memes and Sagume)
Music 7/10 (still waiting for good remix)
features 5/10 (yay, pointdevice mode... and... nothing)
Spellcards 7/10 (i like the ideas, most of them (EXCEPT FUCKING CLOWNPIECE)
dialouges and story Hue/Hue (moonbitchies get (almost) rekt)
Did i forget anything anon?
>>14736383
It's not a hopelessly terrible videogame, but It's one of the worst Touhou games. TD, DDC, ISC and now LoLK are all among the worst games in Touhou. I lost faith in ZUN.
That said, The early game is quite good, with Doremy being an excellent boss.
>>14737046
DDC have a one positive thing
Seiga
>>14737046
>DDC, ISC
> are all among the worst games in Touhou
How can they be among the worst games if their OSTs and designs are among the best ones? You just dislike everything new.
>>14737046
Remember UFO and SA too, you hated those too when it came out so be coherent and include them.
>>14737129
i think TD is too easy.
>>14737129
PC-98 was underrated. Down with the EoSD lineage.
The fighting games are better desu
>>14737046
The newer stuff is worse, but LoLK is still far better than TD. ISC I cant complain about, you know it's a puzzle game and thats what it was.
However I liked Junko, Seiran and the fact Reisen is playable. Thats about it.
>>14737129
I liked SA, and UFO while not great wasnt bad. Miles above LoLK and TD.
I liked DDC too.
>>14737129
That's right, ZUN nowadays stuff is just fucking shit, all of it.
When are we getting a new HRtP?
Disappointing for all the reasons stated previously, but I still really like the characters (especially Junko) and the music is some of the best in the series. Pure Furies is probably my favorite boss theme in the entire series.
>>14738108
Nobody stated a reason. Everybody just said "it's bad because I don't like it" basically.
>>14738117
Well they named some things they dislike and eliminated some others by silence.
As a person who's new to the series but has played EoSD, PCB, IN and LoLK, I appreciate LoLK's characters, darker tone and music.
Also a lot of people complain about the patterns, which is understandable when you're used to a series full of ornate and astonishingly beautiful bullet patterns. Still, they're challenging and fit the game's themes at least.
>>14738139
I'm not new to the franchise but I still find LoLK's bullet patterns pretty good. Sure they are not the best but they were still colorful and nice to see. Not to mention that they felt very satisfying to dodge at times specialle on Stage 5 and Sagume's boss fight in my case.
>>14736460
Looking silly IS good!
>>14738184
Yeah. Maybe someone else will come along and give substantive reasons why they think the game just sucks.
>>14737129
SA and UFO have both been my favorite game at some point (before TD came out) so no. Nice try, though.
>>14736383
I think it's a very enjoyable game. Not without its flaws, but easily top 10 for me.
>>14736460
>1. This isn't /v/
You could have fooled me.
>>14737046
But DDC was one of the best Touhou games, and UFO is one of the worst easily.
>>14736383
It's good but it would have been better with only legacy. Point device is the worst mechanic since trance. It's kind of a downer because DDC was so good.
>>14736383
Well the difficulty on Lunatic was pretty good, I hope this sets a new standard for Toho games so people don't have to make Ultra patches anymore.
>>14737064
Seiga??? That's Seija you mook.
Seiga is the blue-haired bitch hermit.
>>14737164
ZUN itself said that TD is easy so new players can have a good starting point without going way back.
>>14736383
It's quickly becoming one of my favorites in the series.
I was a fan of the lunarians way back when IN was released so I really enjoyed the story. The cast is a lot more memorable this time around compared to the last. The first two are just generic bunnies, but I still find them easier to remember than say the Tsukumo sisters, Yoshika, or Seiga.
Music is good in my opinion and the stage themes created really nice atmospheres; stage 4 and 6 themes in particular I really liked for this reason. You get a fast paced and chaotic stage 5 and then everything is calm and tranquil at the start of stage 6. The contrast was executed superbly. It is my favorite stage 6 theme in the entire series. A lot of people hate on Junko for being a very cheap last boss with her simplistic spellcards and I would have agreed if not for the fact that it ties in well with her character's personality. I was so absorbed into the story that it felt like she really did wanted to kill you at one point (Lilies of Murderous Intent). Pure and simple danmaku for the sole purpose of beating an opponent. It is a concept I can appreciate.
The gameplay was a challenge and I didn't find it too overbearing. I played the demo so much Doremy has left a huge impression on me. Clownpiece as well when the full game got released. I never played on lunatic before this point and I took the opportunity to do so thanks to the addition of pointdevice. I had well over 1000 deaths on stage 5 alone by the time I managed to beat it. Got pretty traumatized for a while. It's all fond memories now though.
I did not mind the character designs much. Hecatia took me by surprise when I first saw her and took a while to get used to. She has already grown on me. Her stage was fun too so that's a plus. Clownpiece I instantly liked, not for her USA meme mind you, the fact that she changes from being really full of herself and haughty to really humble in her speech pattern as soon as you beat her (in Marisa's route). I found this to be funny and cute. She also uses "atai" to refer to herself like Cirno does, which is a good thing in my book. Junko is very cute and her design is elagant and grandouise I find. Very scary to fight though. Sagume has a nice design as well.
Overall, I would say it is a solid game and one of the better in the series.
>>14738984
I don't understand his logic there, as TD easily has the largest amount of references to prior games of any game in the series, barring the fighting games and the Phantasmagoria titles. Honestly, it's probably one of the worst starting places, only barely beating out LoLK.
>>14739050
Easy to start out on from a gameplay standpoint.
>>14736383
LoLK is a great game.
And remember folks, UFO is absolute dog shit.
Don't bother trying to disregard my opinion either, because I'm better at Touhou than literally everybody in this thread, and on the west (and majority of the east) side of the globe.
Thank you and goodnight.
>>14742433
Hi MaZe.
A rushed game with a terrible concept in mind, (I Wanna Be the Guy, seriously?)
I'm keeping in mind that every Touhou game is released with silly bugs (Hanako in the Toilet's invisible bullet in DS, Merlin, MoF Marisa B ), but they were absolutely awful this time.
The game is incredibly unbalanced, in shot types, difficulty modes, Legacy and Point Device.
EX Stage is a lazy as hell copy paste.
Some of his blandest (Seiran) and worst (Clownpiece, Hecatia) character designs yet.
Even the music past Doremy was kinda meh.
Everything about it just screams rushed development which doesn't even make sense to me because does ZUN not make these games in his free time? I was pretty positive that he did.
The trial held promise but he really fucking folded it in with the final product. I'd say it's easily the worst game in the series if we're not counting the other spinoffs and fighters (HM would take that golden turd trophy instead).
>>14742888
It sounds to me like the final game was too tough for you, so know your reaching for faults that don't exist, or are things present in every Touhou game.
Don't get me wrong, the game has faults, but only one thing you touched upon is really an issue.
>>14742433
TD extra is an easy to score run. Your high score run is a joke and the only reason nobody has bothered to challenge your score is because nobody cares as TD Extra scoring.
>>14736460
>this isn't /v/
What? We're not allowed to talk about the official Touhou games on /jp/? What the actual fuck. Are you fucking retarded?
>>14742998
He's trying to hide the fact that he's a shitposter from /v/
>>14742888
>Some of his blandest (Seiran) and worst (Clownpiece, Hecatia) character designs yet.
>Even the music past Doremy was kinda meh.
I disagree with your opinions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYwul_WIvvs
The hate for the LoLK designs really does seem like standard newhu hate.
Except for Hecatia. That was weird.
>>14742984
>It sounds to me like the final game was too tough for you, so know your reaching for faults that don't exist
That's not a valid thing to say against criticism.
>but only one thing you touched upon is really an issue.
>one
So if it's the glitches, the obviously poor balance isn't somehow an issue? Breaking Legacy with both Sanae and Reisen is somehow fair? If it's the poor balance, the glaring as hell glitches aren't somehow an issue? Such as Junko going slowmo or even Reimu turning the screen red?
Even if we're ignoring the subjective things like music taste, or character designs. You still can't ignore that the game is horribly unbalanced and at times lazy with stage and enemy patterns.
I shouldn't even have replied since you're just trying to say "git gud" in a subtle way as if that's somehow a valid thing to say against criticism.
>>14743012
>That's not a valid thing to say against criticism.
It's just a personal theory, one which you aren't really disproving.
>So if it's the glitches, the obviously poor balance isn't somehow an issue? Breaking Legacy with both Sanae and Reisen is somehow fair? If it's the poor balance, the glaring as hell glitches aren't somehow an issue?
The imbalance is an issue. The glitches are hardly an issue as they're very situational, and honestly not as bad as some glitches in previous games.
>You still can't ignore that the game is horribly unbalanced
A little bit, but to call it "horridly unbalanced" is exaggerating it.
>and at times lazy with stage and enemy patterns.
LoLK has some of the most creative and original patterns in the series.
I'll say it again. LoLK has issues, but the way you grasp for anything, no matter how subjective or exaggerated, tells me that you want to hate the game for personal reasons. Maybe it wasn't too tough for you, or maybe it was, who knows? All I know is that there is clearly some personal bias going on in your arguments.
>>14743062
>It's just a personal theory, one which you aren't really disproving.
I have no reason to prove or disprove it, because it isn't even relevant to the game's actual problems.
>The glitches are hardly an issue as they're very situational, and honestly not as bad as some glitches in previous games.
A handful of glitches in the games are situational. But LoLK really takes the cake in how bad they are. You've got the title screen demo glitch that can ruin your point device progress, Junko's spell counter (Byakuren has this on easy mode only, not every single one) and slowmo, Red Screen. At worst, I've only seen something like Merlin in PCB or the invisible bullet in DS. No game has been released with bugs as bad as this.
>A little bit, but to call it "horridly unbalanced" is exaggerating it.
It really isn't. Point Device is absolutely terrible, Sanae breaks both Legacy and Point Device, Reisen to an extent too. Marisa is borderline useless and possibly one of her worst shot types in the series yet. The game itself is based around Point Device, which makes Legacy look a complete afterthought. The EX stage isn't even consistent in how many life pieces gaining lives like the main game is. Clownpiece's spell are easier on the harder modes than they are on easier ones. The game is a mess, basing an STG on trial and error is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen made true.
>LoLK has some of the most creative and original patterns in the series.
Junko and her danmakufu-tier spells alone throws what you say here out the window.
>grasp for anything
Bringing up its flaws is grasping? I have no personal bias, I'm saying the game is badly design, which it is. It sounds more to me like you're just defending whatever shit ZUN gives you. Being either good or bad at the game doesn't somehow excuse its glaring faults. There really is no exaggeration, things are definitely as bad as they seem.
people trying to pass their subjective opinions as objective is cute
>>14739050
Anon, what if I started with LoLK?
>>14742998
He's probably referring to how "now that the dust has settled" is /v/ code for a shitpost thread.
>>14743299
There's a reason if they're called subjective opinions, /v/.
>>14743147
>No game has been released with bugs as bad as this.
MoF, Marisa B.
And DDC had a game crashing glitch when if first came out, if I'm not mistaken.
>You've got the title screen demo glitch that can ruin your point device progress
That one is funny, but yeah that's probably the most major and damaging bug.
>Junko's spell counter
I have no idea what this one is, but if it has anything to do with the counter that shows your capture ratio, who cares? Getting bothered by that is like getting bothered by IN's game time glitch.
>and slowmo
Only happens in PD, and can be fixed by simply restarting.
>Red Screen.
Never encountered it, so I can't speak to how annoying it may or may not be.
>It really isn't. Point Device is absolutely terrible,
Subjective taste.
>Sanae breaks both Legacy and Point Device
Legacy yeah, but Point Device? Nah, her main advantage (graze abuse with her bomb) vanishes in that mode.
>Reisen to an extent too
Not really. She breaks Extra, though.
>Marisa is borderline useless and possibly one of her worst shot types in the series yet.
Fuck you.
>The game itself is based around Point Device
And UFO is based around UFOs, that's just how these things are. Except, unlike UFO, the game at least has the decency to give you options.
>The EX stage isn't even consistent in how many life pieces gaining lives like the main game is.
That's for balance reasons, that was actually a very smart choice on ZUN's part.
>Clownpiece's spell are easier on the harder modes than they are on easier ones.
That's an unsubstantiated meme from /v/, CP's cards are actually harder on hard and lunatic, believe it or not. Her second card in particular, the one everyone brings up, becomes harder despite the more static star pattern, thanks to the actually dangerous part of the card (the lasers) lasting longer, and giving you less leeway in your positioning.
>The game is a mess, basing an STG on trial and error is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen made true.
Most STG are based on trail and error in some ways.
>Junko and her danmakufu-tier spells alone throws what you say here out the window.
Nice buzzwords. I think Junko's patterns are very fitting for her character, and honestly probably do a better job of describing what sort of person she is to the player better than any final boss patterns in recent memory.
Also, you're conveniently ignoring her more elaborate patterns, such as "Lilies of Murderous Intent" and "Pristine Lunacy". And even if every single one of her patterns was garbage, she's still only a small fraction of the entire game.
>Bringing up its flaws is grasping?
No, grasping for straws is grasping. Your points are mostly built around fallacies, opinions, nitpicking, and even false information. I keep bringing up the bias thing because it really feels like, to me at least, your arguments are this way because you want to hate the game.
>It sounds more to me like you're just defending whatever shit ZUN gives you.
I don't like UFO very much.
Look, anon, it's fine to dislike LoLK, but don't be an ass about it, and stop presenting your opinions as cold, hard facts. I'm not trying to say that you have to like LoLK, just stop pretending that it's objectively the worst thing to ever come from ZUN's computer.
>>14743488
>M-maybe if I turn his arguments into buzzwords, he'll go away.
>>14743460
>I have no idea what this one is
Not him, but remember the boss spellcard counter? Below the boss' name, they get stars that symbolize how many spellcards they have left before they're defeated.
Junko's spell counter bug refers to the fact that this counter jumps back and forth all over the place instead of reducing itself by one each time you defeat a spellcard.
>>14743523
wow, that is GAME BREAKING, man
>>14743523
Ah, I see now. That's kind of funny. I wouldn't call that a major issue by any means, and even minor would be kind of pushing it, but I can see why that would be annoying at least.
>>14743537
for you?
>pointdevice apologist
Worse than secondaries.
>>14743559
No idea, but I remember plenty of threads talking about how Touhou was declining after DDC was released.
>>14743559
Yes.
>>14743570
I remember complaints about characters, and some complaints about it being too easy.
Oh yeah, and everyone hated Seija's gimmick when the game first came out, like legitimate hatred.
What you have to remember is that this is 4chan, and a large majority of people here would rather complain about things they hate than talk about things they enjoy, and when they complain they complain loudly.
>>14743586
>and everyone hated Seija's gimmick when the game first came out
Really? That's probably my favorite gimmick. I remember the rush i had the first time i experienced it. It reminded me of that one mario level with the inverted controls.
>>14743616
There were tons of complaints about it being a dumb gimmick, or it being unfair, from what I recall.
Most of this faded with time, of course, as new things for people to complain about popped up.
>>14737028
>no new shoot types :(
There's a whole new character.
>>14743626
Not him but Reisen is just a revamped Marisa with her infinite penetration and Nitori's shield 2.0
>>14743633
I often bring up the complaint that Reisen stole Marisa's penetration myself, but there are a few differences in her shot and Marisa's penetrating shots, in regards to range, power, and how it works while unfocused.
>>14743633
>infinite penetration
>>14743648
>>14743659
TRANSLATE IT WEEBS
>>14743648
It was a reference you donut
>>14743641
Of coure, there are differences but i wouldn't go as far as call it a new shot type since the basic function is the same (Spread, focus and piercing). Not that ithere is anything wrong with that since designing new shot types are hard to come by and balance.
1. Music finally got better after DDC / ISC which were shit. (I'm not counting the CP here, this is the worst song ZUN has ever created.)
2. Gameplay has a very interesting concept, but rather for a spinoff than "full game". Also, Junko and Clownpiece fights seem "unfinished", like there are some fillers and not many creative patterns and gimmicks.
3. I cannot say much about characters. No one was interesting enough for me to make me lurk wiki / other sources, so i know nothing about them.
>>14743673
Yeah, sure, by that standard I can agree with what you said.
But, that said, just because the shottype doesn't reinvent the wheel, doesn't mean it doesn't do at least a few new things, you know?
>>14743674
Marisa is cute!
>>14743688
I liked CP's theme, personally.
>>14743688
>Music finally got better after DDC / ISC which were shit
l o l
o
l
If anything I'm glad LoLK has pointdevice, if it only had legacy only 1% of people would actually play lunatic there.
>>14743708
The only reason LoLK is more difficulty and relies in trial and error is pointdevice.
>>14743633
Seriously, my man, in a game about danmaku shooting just what kind of dramatic changes are you expecting?
>>14743727
Well, Youmu had a pretty unique shottype.
>>14743708
Pic related, currently trying to do this. I have the deepest respect towards anyone capable of pulling this off consistently, but for myself all I've achieved after half a year of Touhou is that I've stopped colliding with the blue bars. Crossing the stream is still insane.
>>14743722
Well, then it would be easier and a different game if it hadn't that feature.
>>14743732
Something about this just rubs me the wrong way.
>>14743722
The reason LoLK is difficult is because of the story. It wouldn't make sense for a game about the lunarians and hell to be easy. Zun has confirmed this. He created pointdevice to allow the average player to actually be able to beat the game.
>>14743732
I wish people would stop spreading this myth, as it's not really true.
Bullet density isn't the only deciding factor in how much graze you get. You have to remember that you also get graze from hanging around the same bullet for a short period of time, and the bonus you get from doing this is substantial.
Furthermore, the game is fairly generous with graze and resources even on Normal, so the difference that the extra bullets will make is likely to only result in one extra life, if that. And even on Normal, it's easy enough to max out lives by stage 3.
>>14743705
DDC had several good tracks (Seija and Raiko to name few) but nothing more, while other 2hus are more "balanced", so you can enjoy soundtrack as a whole. (PCB, MoF and GFW especially.)
>>14743727
ZUN could make many different patterns for the playable characters, and also how they interact with focusing.
Let me give you a simple and silly example. There hasn't been a character that shoots 100% diagonally and the shots curve back (imagine vertical eye shape). Enemies inbetween wouldn't get hit. It's focused mode could be straightforward shot that curves like 2D drawing of the DNA.
There. New shot type. It forces you to stay on the lower half of the screen if you want to hit the enemy with all bullets.
>>14743783
and I've finally smashed it after 30ish retries, I even navigated through actual openings I saw to cross the stream of little red stars, but fuck me if that means I have any sort of consistency at this. It's good enough for me though, I like pointdevice. It's just a different game.
>>14743835
Your musical taste sucks.
>>14743852
Honestly, anon, that sounds kind of completely awful.
>>14743570
Music and gameplay may be debateable but DDC was quite poorly written and had bad pacing in comparisson.
Wakasagihime has some of the shortest dialogue in the whole series for a end of stage boss. She actually only has two whole fucking lines on any given route that amount to the same threat phrased differently. Even Rumia established more character back in EoSD.
Look at the stage breakup, you actually don't have a clue about anything going on until the end of the Stage 4. Even then the Stage 4 bosses don't actually know whats going on either. In any other game you'd already have bumped into someone who knows what is going on or could direct you. That is 3 filler stages of aimlessly running about with no developments.
Then you have the first three bosses who unlike the other games have virtually no thematic relation at all, they are actually completely random youkai with no involvement. This is a legit complaint look back at the last few games, they had clear distinct design themes they shared.
TD- Death and mysticism themed. Yes even Kogasa and Kyouko fit in since Kogasa is actually a umbrella ghost and in the case of Kyouko she is a extinct youkai and the older reading of yamabiko actually calls them a ghost too.
UFO- Classical youkai theme and all bosses are actually one large faction.
SA- The most dangerous and feared youkai.
>>14743884
In defense of DDC, it was designed in a way to harken back to the early Windows games, with early stage characters that had little to do with the overall plot (in fact, you spend the same amount of stages as IN actually working towards fighting the people who caused the incident. Complain about DDC all you like, but IN was also pretty much filler all the way up to Stage 5), and an incident that wasn't part of some larger conspiracy. Basically, it's literally meant to be filler between two fairly large and involved arcs (the religion arc, and whatever ZUN is building up to right now.) and I think that's fine.
I used to be proud for 1ccing PCB and EoSD on lunatic
But to me LoLK on Normal is 10 times more difficult than those two games
>>14743868
ZUN takes like 3 months to make a game. If he takes 0.1% of his time to make a new shot type, that's over two hours. He recycles most of the shot types already, so two hours on a single new one is not wasted time for him. I did that shot type in a few minutes, without any lore or character to back the idea up. He can obviously have a crazy idea then test it, fix it, implement it correctly, etc.
>>14743928
Have you practiced enough? I found it easier than lunatic in either game 2bh.
>>14743937
Honestly, I would rather see him use that time to bring back PCB style shottypes.
Those shottypes were the best.
Regardless, trying to reinvent the wheel every time you make a game can be annoying. That's how we ended up with SA's shottypes.
>>14743973
I needed 200-300 tries for some of clownpiece's spellcards
>>14743997
Pointdevice is a trap.
Get to Legacy, use the first three stages to max lives/bombs, destroy everything.
>>14743982
I like the shot types in SA.
>>14743982
Bringing them back is about programming and making sprites. It's not as hard as making new functional shottypes. I also hope to see them back.
And you're right. I just think ZUN should make new shottypes for new playable characters.
I've heard people say they like this spell card, but why? It feels like the bullets created by the explosions sometimes form impossible patterns, and for being so dependent on RNG this spell card drags awfully...
>>14743902
>and whatever ZUN is building up to right now.
Didn't the ULiL-LoLK arc already finish? I can't see how can ZUN continue the story from where it is right now.
>>14744082
Marisa's good ending hints at a larger story arc.
>>14744049
I like it a lot because it gives the impression of being a really simple pattern but if you don't misdirect the orbs that explode you can end up walling yourself. If you know how to do it the RNG of the explosions becomes redundant.
>>14744163
Okay, I gave it a go and misdirected the balls to different sides of the screen, and actually ended up timing it out. The only way I see of not timing this spell card out as Reisen at 3 power using this strat, is staying under Junko during the mass laser phase, or just getting tighter timings so you can finish her off at the last second instead, but I'm not crazy about either.
Well, it still feels kinda cool, maybe with less RNG on the intersecting bullets it would be better. Oh right, that's just what it is on the lower difficulties.
>>14744258
>Reisen
Ah, that explains everything.
>>14744103
Did anything happen in WaHH? Because FS is still continuing with its mini-arc stuff and I seriously doubt VFiS is going to lead up to a continuation of the story. Unless GFW 2: Lunatic Boogaloo happens to NOT be merely a side thing.
>>14744135
We don't know whose storyline in LoLK is the canon one yet. And considering Marisa can't recall Clownpiece, it probably isn't hers.
>>14744281
Yeah, I know her strength is mostly in her bomb (though the piercing shot is also useful sometimes), but I decided to go with her for my first lunatic pointdevice run since you can restart each scene if something goes wrong. Didn't figure that it would make me time out one of Junko's spells...
>>14744300
>We don't know whose storyline in LoLK is the canon one yet.
That doesn't matter as much as you'd think, and I never claimed that Marisa's route was the canon one.
Now, I'm not saying that every route is canon, I've always been a believer in 1 canon route per game, except for games where multiple routes are obviously canon like SWR and PoFV, but I've also always held to the policy that endings don't lie, even if they aren't part of the canon route. Any information that is presented to us during an ending isn't false, a good example of this being UFO, where despite Marisa B being confirmed as the canon route by ZUN, the construction of the Myouren Temple, as seen in Reimu and Sanae's endings, and Kanako's involvement in the process, as seen in Sanae's ending, actually happened, even if the route itself didn't. So, going by this logic, things like Ringo staying in Gensokyo are true regardless of which route is canon, even though that's only shown in Reimu's ending.
And besides, it's not the events of Marisa's ending that matter, per se, but the information Yukari provides to us during it. ZUN even confirmed that her ending was hinting towards a new arc.
Also,
>And considering Marisa can't recall Clownpiece, it probably isn't hers.
No, she simply didn't know that Clownpiece was the fairy that Reimu was talking about. Even if Marisa's route was canon, she would have no reason to suspect that Clownpiece had come to Gensokyo, considering the last place we see her is on the moon.
>>14744345
>ZUN even confirmed that her ending was hinting towards a new arc.
where, what did he say
>>14744370
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom_interview_with_ZUN
Yeah, looking through it again, it looks like ZUN's comment about Marisa's ending "being the beginning" was the result of sloppy translation from an earlier translator. Sorry about that.
>>14744409
>What will happen next?
Translation never.
>>14744417
The Western Touhou fanbase is only interested in translating porn and memes, thank you very much.
Now please enjoy as we translate kobito as inchling because we hate you and we hate Japanese mythology. Fucking weeb.
>>14744345
Fair enough. But to change the subject:
>a good example of this being UFO, where despite Marisa B being confirmed as the canon route by ZUN, the construction of the Myouren Temple, as seen in Reimu and Sanae's endings, and Kanako's involvement in the process, as seen in Sanae's ending, actually happened, even if the route itself didn't.
You sure about this? AFAIK, Byakuren deliberatively landed the Palanquin Ship and turned it into the Myouren Temple right on top of Miko's Mausoleum (to avoid having Miko resurrect, even if the effect ended up being the exact opposite). Whereas SanaeA's ending states that Kanako chose a random stretch of land, had Suwako flatten it and then she placed the ship there.
I'm also a believer that all endings happened (even if the routes themselves didn't) unless stated otherwise, but that doesn't work in this one specific situation.
>>14744417
>Translation never.
Maybe if you bother Clarste about it he'll do them. I know that the people from TVtropes asked him to translate the character introductions from SCoOW and he did them with no further fuzz.
Hell, maybe I'll do it. Although first I'd want him to translate the interview with Iruka Unabara.
>>14744660
I would have to find the source, but I believe it's confirmed that Kanako chose that plot of land for that very reason, and shared that reason with Byakuren. She didn't tell Sanae because she doesn't tell Sanae anything, if Hisoutensoku is anything to go off of.
>>14744135
>>14744409
I think the only thing they really hinted in that ending was that the whole incident had taught Yukari to control Urban legends which she used to great effect in the latest FS chapter as Mamizou implied.
If anything the more interesting part of Marisa's good ending is what did Yukari mean by this when they were talking about her meeting Sagume? This bit seems the actual hint to something in the future more than anything.
>>14743688
>Music finally got better after DDC / ISC which were shit
What is wrong with you? You may not like it, but it's definitely not "shit".
>>14743854
Also
>Mist Lake
>Magical Storm
>Primordial Beat
>Magical Power of the Mallet (if you overlook that it's a Steins;Gate theme ripoff)
And all of ISC themes
https://youtu.be/FxlkVECWkoE
>>14743899
>bait
It makes sense since in Windows games quality of writing does differ from game to game. SA has best, longest dialogues with best jokes if you ask me. UFO also has long dialogues with good characterisation and gives the player enough information to understand what's going on. DDC is closer to PC98 in terms of writing.
And Zun definitely tried to write something complicated with LoLK, he does put thought in his writing disregard of what memer like you thinks about it.
>>14747145
As opposed to the totally not suspicious closed-source not-auto-updating patch made by the people who confused Kokoro for an OC and decided to localize Futo's accent partway through the series instead of sticking to their initial decision of not doing so?
I mean, I get that people have a problem with thcrap because of nmlgc's arrogant attitude and stupid pony bullshit (even if it makes no sense to me, it'd like thinking a single-player game (like most Touhou games) is bad specifically because the fanbase is bad, as if they had any bearing on the game's quality), but you fucks seriously need to stop being so hypocritical.
I like it a lot, it has some pretty decent newhus and is nicely challenging. Not a fan of Point Device mode, but I just play on Legacy instead. It's one of my favorites, honestly.
>>14747403
This is not the place for yelling random untrue accusations at other people. But I know where they'll accomodate you.
>>>/v/
>>14743688
>CP's theme
>bad
Maybe after the 300th time in Pointdevice mode.
Clown's theme was creepy and threatening, but also catchy. Once again Legacy mode is truly the choice instead of the babby's Pointdevice mode.
>>14743460
I think he means how Junko jumps from 6 to 3 displayed spell cards when she uses her first one.
I feel mods in my bones
>>14742991
Not him but 2 things:
1. The run is pretty good and would not be easy to beat. Even if the score run is "easy", there is a lot of optimization that isn't easily beaten. Moreover, if the run is easy, then there is no reason for the player to have a run with bad optimization. It's definitely not a joke run even if it may be the weakest of the high extra scoring runs western players have produced. (EoSD, PCB and In have 1 great western score each, with one of them being the current overall WR and another one was the overall WR until Japan beat it by a little bit. GFW also has a good score but I don't really know how strong that run is.)
2. It has been brought up by IRC people a few times that the replay actually belongs to T, not MaZe and T just put MaZe's name on it for trolling purposes. I don't really know what happened back then since I'm not part of that group but they have more background knowledge than people who come here exclusively. So with that in mind, it just makes MaZe's posts even more ridiculous.
>>14743688
>ISC which were shit
I hope you didn't mean DDC, because it was pretty fucking good.
>Reverse Ideology
>Pristine Beat
>Illusory Shamisen Recital
>Sekibaki's theme
>>14752538
>It has been brought up by IRC people a few times that the replay actually belongs to T, not MaZe and T just put MaZe's name on it for trolling purposes. I don't really know what happened back then since I'm not part of that group but they have more background knowledge than people who come here exclusively. So with that in mind, it just makes MaZe's posts even more ridiculous.
I don't get it. Are you saying that the guy that always posts that TD run here is not really the one that did it?
>>14754314
Yes, that is what I am saying. The Reimu world record for TD Extra may have the replay name "MaZe" but it in reality it was an old player T who produced that run and named it as he did for the sake of fucking with people. (Again, this is according to the IRC players who have more knowledge about the whole situation from back then than we do)
>>14755738
I still don't get why he would play along and act like he's a super player when that's not his run. Doesn't he knows that people will eventually realize that he's lying? That will only make him look like a retard and everybody will disregard what he says in his posts.
>>14756652
Most people here don't know about the situation regarding that replay. Nothing in that replay looks like TAS because it isn't. Therefore people who do not have any idea about the whole T ordeal will believe him because that's the logical thing to do without any knowledge.
As I said, I don't know all details. There may be more information floating around we do not know about (which may or may not explain why MaZe tags along with it and says it's his run).
>>14743010
>Da besto fuck you LASER music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWOP5XNN12M
>>14756837
Well, thanks a lot for the info. That actually explains why he's so eager to start fights on gameplay threads since he has a way to "prove" what he's talking about when he's not. I knew something was fishy about his posts but i never got arround the reason.
>>14738996
This dude is the only one to get it and isn't just hating on it, because it's new.
Don't get me wrong. My favourite game is still IN and my least liked ones are UFO and TD.
Objectively speaking pointdevice is the best thing to happen to the game, because it allows ZUN to make much, much tighter danmaku that can relate to the character more closely.
The only thing he did wrong was how he handled Legacy Mode. In my opinion he really only needed to decrease the difficulty in Legacy Mode. Practically matching LM Lunatic to PD Hard.
As a long running series, you really need to change things up to open new doors or the game is just going to end up like Assassin's Creed. The same shit over and over again.
>>14743616
>>14743624
I still hate and love it at the same time. Anything that takes control from you or messes with it can be pretty frustrating, but between my frustration I realized I was smiling.
Because it was fun.
Love LoLK, love pointdevice.
Hate LoLK, hate pointdevice
Took like a 5 month break from playing after the game came out. Just 1cc'd it.
Is a continuation ending really the same as a 1cc ending? That's kinda disappointing.
And fuck Junko's fight. That shit ain't fun.
>>14767650
>Is a continuation ending really the same as a 1cc ending?
What? Are you asking if Pointdevice/1-life-run Legacy has the same ending as non-1-life-run Legacy? No, it doesn't.
>>14767650
LoLK has a good end and a bad end.
If you clear the game without losing a life, you get the good end.
Otherwise, you get the bad end.
>>14767903
Ah, I thought it would be like most of the other games where you get the good end if you just 1cc it. That's pretty brutal.
>>14768093
I think getting a bad end for 1cc is actually quite shit.
>>14758798
>My favourite game is still IN and my least liked ones are UFO and TD.
Could someone explain to someone entirely ignorant what the hatred for TD and UFO is about?
I'm assuming it's the actual gameplay because it sure as hell can't be the music or design because they were very nice in general and came out with some pretty fun new characters.
>>14770926
People can't handle UFOs so they hate it. OST is also very divisive.
TD is just a weak game and has a terrible system.
>>14770926
>UFO
Casuals can't handle the UFO system so they just say the game is bad instead of getting good at the game.
>TD
This game is just pretty divisive in general. And I'm sure the un-Touhou-like Trance system didn't help matters any.
>>14770926
The UFOs simply weren't a fun mechanic, and they somehow end up being both too generous, and obtrusive/unintuitive at the same time. It was a dumb gimmick that made the game weaker as a whole, similar to trance in TD. But unlike TD, if you dare to criticize UFO in any way you'll typically be bombarded by personal attacks, rather than any real counter arguments.
And I personally think the characters were lackluster.
>>14770926
Oh, and TD has garbage balance. It's easier than most Touhou games pattern-wise, and you can abuse the system for a lot of graze, but if you die you lose all your trance, and you don't get many lives unless you know the stages inside and out.
>>14770926
Both UFO and TD are really different compared to the other games because of their gimmicks. As a whole they also have a different atmosphere compared to the past games and even DDC.
UFO's mechanic you either love it or hate it. People always complained that it was too hard. In my opinion UFO is really good, at first i didn't liked the mechanic but it grew on me over the time.
TD mechanic is not as good. Trance becomes a free bomb and the stages are a bit plain, plus people didn't like trance activating automatically after a death.
Personally, even thought i didn't liked the tance thing i enjoyed the game a lot, specially stages 6 and the extra.
As i said before people like to hate the music of both games because is dratically different from other games giving them another kind of feel. Some songs are less catchy, less melancholic and less complexbut even like that i liked both games soundtracks since i got what ZUN was going on for.
I suggest you to play the games and form your own opinion.
>>14744049
>Make the Current Events Inexistent
Please tell me an ESL translated that, because holy shit that is stiffer than Yoshika's arms
>>14772028
It's not like there are many translators these days.
But yeah, something like "Undo These Events" would have been a lot better.
>>14772009
>I suggest you to play the games and form your own opinion.
I have played both games but I mostly wanted to hear the general consensus since all I ever see is 'xxx is shit' it doesn't tell me anything, reading through the last few replies at least enlightens me more.
I can understand the gripes with the game systems with both and they're fairly justified. They did both have severe flaws that detracted a lot from the games, I'm definitely in the camp of disliking Trance mode and the UFO's.
But I felt both games had a very distinct unique feel and atmosphere to them in the art, music design and writing, in that respect they were pretty spot on. UFO had a clear sense of adventure, excitement and airiness to everything, whilst TD had a more mystical and wonderous yet comical atmosphere to it in the presentation style and music.
Just reading ZUN's notes confirms most of that so it at least tells me he got something right if I got that impression too.
>>14771912
I can see some people having fun from the challenge introduced by the UFO. I understand why many dislike it but I also completely get why many got good at the game and embraced the system even with its fault.
Trance is just shit. It doesn't help that the UFOs were attached to a still solid game while Trance was not.
>>14773615
I share this sentiment. Gimmicks aside, UFO is just better. Probably in my top 3 danmaku-wise.
>>14744049
That pattern is miserable but at least it's not her 4 part fuck you finale.
>>14772296
Don't need to be a translator to be an editor. I don't know Japanese fluently, but I could easily edit that to something much more fluid. Come on, editing doesn't even take that long.
The wiki translations are much the same way. Or maybe that's just how ZUN writes in the original Japanese? He's got a very distinctive voice even in translation.
>>14738117
>Nobody stated a reason
Read the fucking thread please.
>>14736383
>Reisen is finally playable
>her game is one of the shittiest in the franchise
why
>now that the dust has settled
>147
Have you forgotten what trolls look like?
It's good if you like difficulty, which the majority of touhou fans don't. Why they won't just play easy mode is beyond me.
>>14777024
That reply was 7 days ago before the thread even had 20 replies anon.
>>14777583
>Can retry from any point in the game
>Difficult
inb4 muh forced challenges
>>14778163
>you can retry an unlimited amount of times
>therefore, the game isn't hard
OK, show me your NB Lunatic 1cc of LoLK if it's so easy. Pointdevice can't save progress, so make a video of it and upload it somewhere.
good thing this have pointdevice because i wouldnt had patience to restart game million times
>>14778297
That's literally what pointdevice is thought. Repeating the pattern over and over until you pass it. At least in Legacy you make progress even if you lose all your lives. As some other anons pointed out in another thread the best practice you can have is trying to complete runs, not using a save-state-esque mechanic.
>>14778291
>forced challenges
Called it
>Pointdevice can't save progress
You can literally close the game and resume exactly where you left.
>>14778354
>Called it
What's wrong? Isn't it super easy? You have infinite lives, after all!
>You can literally close the game and resume exactly where you left.
Right, I meant to say "replays" rather than "progress".
>>14778366
Don't even bother, this guy always make the same claim in every thread. He doesn't realize that his claim of LoLK being easy because of pointdevice is as ridiculous as saying that is hard because of NBNM runs. He gives the impression that he hasn't completed the game in Legacy.
>>14778366
>Isn't it super easy?
It is but it may take a bit of time depending on your skill, you just repeat the spellcard until you get through.
Pointdevice doesn't save replays, maybe you should learn more about the game you desperately try to defend.
>>14778386
With that logic EoSD is the hardest game if you do it blindfolded and upside down.
>>14778393
Yeah, that's the point.
Pointdevice is easy?
Sure, you get infinite retries and you can go as far as your patience and willpower make you go, you probably can clear it in Lunatic withouth bombs even if you get stuck in the last pattern for two years trying to capture it, but i don't know why would someone want to do this since it's counterproductive and you get nothing out of it, not even a replay.
LoLK as a whole is easy?
No, the game has two modes, pointdevice which i already mentioned and Legacy or the classic system that virtually almost all touhou (and most shmups) games have. Legacy as a whole is much more difficult than most touhou games unless you use exploits, plus the extra mode doesn't let you use pointdevice at all and is in my opinion one of the most difficult extras unless you are using Reisen.
In all, i don't know how can anyone stick only to pointdevice, specially someone that has experience with touhou games. Sure, legacy is difficult but wasn't the point of these game overcome the difficulty and have fun?. I dunno man.
>>14778430
The game was clearly designed around Pointdevice.
I don't get any "fun" out of difficult stuff for sake of being difficult, IWBTG was 9 years ago.
>>14778451
>The game was clearly designed around Pointdevice.
Yes, it uses trial and error, but you talk like this stuff is impossible to do in Legacy, plus the game is not completly designed to be played in pointdevice because, as i already said, the extra doesn't let you use it. Not to mention that there are two different endings, one that only you can get in Legacy.
>I don't get any "fun" out of difficult stuff for sake of being difficult
Me neither, and even so i had much more fun practicing single stages and 1cc the game in Legacy than brainlessly repeating the same pattern in pointdevice. You are honestly making it sound much more difficult that it really is. And your arguments sound like a bunch of excuses.
>>14778451
>The game was clearly designed around Pointdevice.
It was in the sense that it throws a lot of stuff at you that is very hard to capture the first time you face it, so you can easily retry it. But after clearing the game once or twice in PD the game works just as fine in Legacy since you will already know what is coming.
It's not like people try NMNB runs blindly.
>>14778451
>is in my opinion one of the most difficult extras unless you are using Reisen.
Wait, really?
Can some other anons weight in on this? I've cleared every game on hard and every extra sans LoLK's, I was going to start working on it soon. In my experience SA has the hardest extra, btw.
>>14778627
If you cleared every game in hard you shouldn't have problem clearing any extra. I only play on normal and i managed to clear them all multiple times.
Also, yeah, LoLK extra is harder than SA in my opinion but is easier than MS.
MS was the absolute hardest for me, specially the last pattern were it becomes a extreme high speed pattern.
>>14778776
Why do I have to fix your own mistakes?
Grow up.
all the games after pcb have been completely/for the most part shit
>>14737064
I wonder what would happen if Sagume talked about Seija's powers.
>>14778741
>If you cleared every game in hard you shouldn't have problem clearing any extra. I only play on normal and i managed to clear them all multiple times.
extra stages ARE on the level of a level 4-5 lunatic stage. What makes extra easier is that you can practice more easily and quicker.
>>14778627
Even with Reisen, I'd say that it's the most difficult Extra stage. Remember that her bomb makes her hitbox larger, and makes it literally impossible to dodge the danmaku phases when Junko shows up until it wears off (that being said, she's still probably the easiest character to clear the stage with).
Is LoLK a good game? Well...
In my opinion, point device isn't a bad system to be honest... One of the best uses for it is being able to practice patterns an infinite amount of times. Not only is this for the stages, but even the bosses as well. It's particularly useful for scoring techniques as well (not that I play this game's trashy scoring system)
The patterns are okay I guess. Although there are some stupid things. For one, Seiran's first spell is completely ridiculous. I don't even know how one can do that consistently. Ringo's final spell, despite the fact that the glowshit is gone, is still pretty dense and wall-y.
Doremi has some stupid nonspells, but her spells are pretty fun.
Sagume is pretty okay. She's a nice breather from the intense action you have to deal with in the game. EZ NMNB of this stage and boss.
Clownpiece is kinda weird since she's like easier on lunatic than on normal I've heard? Although idk if that's really true. Her nons are really annoying though because you have such small room to move around with and you have to dodge the wonky star hitboxes.
Stage 6 is absolute trash. The stage portion is really fun though. I like the rain streaming. But like... what's up with Junko? Her nonspells are all uncreative trash. Her second spell can legitimately wall you in the corner. And then that final is just stupidly designed and is like impossible to be consistent at unless Asian.
>>14784666
ur a nigr lol
You nerds outta respect Junko more. If it weren't for Junko purifying Clownpiece's American spirit, America would not be great again!
LoLK is meh.
LoLK was gud. A thing some of you could stand to git.
I have no idea how you can dislike LoLK for having boring patterns and praise DDC at the same time.
Also Junko's fight is plain hilarious, but I guess autists can't see through that thin layer of irony the fight has, it's funny because LoLK at first got shat on it for being too much on the safe zone by having two bunnies now it gets shat because the last two bosses are too different and weird with the final boss being something like Junko.
>>14784693
Junko/Hecatia 2016
>>14784666
>Clownpiece is kinda weird since she's like easier on lunatic than on normal I've heard?
Sort of.
For some reason RNG is a bigger part of Clownpiece on Normal, best example I can think of is that one spellcard with the orbiting moon and star danmaku spraying and you have to hide behind the moon to avoid the bulk of the attack.
In Lunatic the stars come in a higher volume but in a fixed pattern in waves so you know when they come.
In Normal there are less stars but for some stupid reason it's a utterly random spray. The result is that occasionally the moon cannot orbit round in time and there are no areas to weave through and nowhere to hide so you're forced to bomb.
My main gripes with LoLK:
The character portraits were once again done pretty terribly. This isn't anything new but LoLK in particular takes this to DeviantArt levels of cringe. I get that Zun can't draw but getting an artist specifically for the character portraits (like in the fighting games where this works wonderfully) would raise the quality of the mainline games dramatically.
Most of the music after stage 3 was a bit of a step down from the rest of the series. Some of it was alright, though. Junko's theme and the ex stage theme were decent, but still low quality for what you would expect from a Touhou.
The bullet patterns in this game don't really give off the "beautiful but deadly" vibe that Touhou seems to embody. At some parts (especially in Junko's fight) the bullet patterns were designed specifically to be as frustrating as possible, without really reflecting the character it's based on.
Lastly, the mechanics introduced in LoLK were nothing major, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. What is a bad thing, however, is the fact that the game seems to artificially balanced towards point device mode. I get it, in LoLK you're essentially fighting powered up lunarian bosses who are much stronger than what you'd see in Gensokyo. Making the game artficially difficult to reflect this isn't the way to go about making the game more enjoyable or replayable, though.
>>14789787
>The character portraits were once again done pretty terribly. This isn't anything new but LoLK in particular takes this to DeviantArt levels of cringe. I get that Zun can't draw but getting an artist specifically for the character portraits (like in the fighting games where this works wonderfully) would raise the quality of the mainline games dramatically.
No.
The last few games have been rushed. That must be why ZUN is taking a game break for 2016.
There are people that seriously hate DDC music? What the fuck.
>>14784666
>But like... what's up with Junko? Her nonspells are all uncreative trash.
Do you like not invest into the character's backstories or anything when you play the games?
>Her second spell can legitimately wall you in the corner.
Never had this be an issue for me.
>>14789787
>artficially difficult
What? The game is still fair to the player like it has always been.
I can understand on your first playthrough when you don't know what to expect, but let's be honest here no one goes for Lunatic 1CCs on your first try. After you actually know what is going to happen, legacy mode is very doable and it's still manages to be hard and not feel so cheap like your typical cave game. All your deaths are your own fault. There is very little RNG and the only one I can think of that is a problem with this is Clownpiece, but that only applies to normal on a certain spellcard (Her second I believe?). From my experience, there usually is a way out but most people like to blame the game rather than their own skill.
Junko is the only one that gets close to that cheap feeling thanks to her simple patterns, but I personally find her one of the easier bosses and I play on Marisa.
I love UFO's UFO mechanic!
>>14790440
It's pretty good.
>>14790417
LoLK is by far the cheapest touhou game in terms of difficulty. Pixel perfect dodging is not what the vast majority of danmaku players consider to be fun.
>>14790094
I am in favor of shit tier art: the anon.
>>14736383
Worst music in the entire series.
Decent enough history and characters
Average to Hard Danmaku
I can't forgt how bad the music in this game is, tho. Every single theme sounds like the boring parts ZUN does when he doesn't have a better idea.
>>14795474
Which tracks in particular were you disappointed with?
I can't say there were any I disliked.
>>14795474
Faraway Voyage is the best stage 5 theme in the entire series.
>>14795474
Shit taste.
>>14790417
He's just mad because he keeps losing.
>>14795513
A good stage 5 theme?
Yeah, really good.
The best?
lol
>>14795600
It's at least a top 3. The stage sync is excellent.
>>14795620
>It's at least a top 3
That's very subjetive and varies greatly with the person.
>The stage sync is excellent
Almost all stages 5 sync with the music since EoSD with a great deal of precision starting with PCB.
It is a really good theme but i wouldn't call it the best.
>>14789787
>``artificial difficulty'''''
Short version: inconsistency.
Long version: https://foolz.fireden.net/v/thread/286439461/
>>14795678
>``subjective'''''
Short version: you're an idiot.
Long version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity
Game was mostly fine but the character design is fucking horrible and the history was a complete incoherent mess going nowhere. Which is very unfortunate considering the games before were starting to get more serious with a meaningful story and cool characters.
>>14795474
Hey!I love LoLK's music next to MoF.
Why did you think so?
>>14789787
>The character portraits were once again done pretty terribly. This isn't anything new but LoLK in particular takes this to DeviantArt levels of cringe. I get that Zun can't draw but getting an artist specifically for the character portraits (like in the fighting games where this works wonderfully) would raise the quality of the mainline games dramatically.
Fuck off. There is only so much fan drawings and interpretations because ZUN's drawings are vague and childish. If ZUN tried becoming a better artist, then Touhou wouldn't be Touhou. Actually, LoLK's portraits are too good.
>>14807825
>Actually, LoLK's portraits are too good.
I don't like how the story seems to haven't reached any happy conclusion. It has probably most dark and intense story by Touhou standards, not counting SA. And even SA had this classic type of ending where last boss(es) hang with Reimu after the incident is resolved. Junko only appears in extra and says that she will stop "for now", and, being a spirit of rage, you know she'll never let it go. She's the most menacing stage 6 boss to boot, literally saying she's going to kill you.
Not that I don't enjoy her character, but LoLK story doesn't have that feeling of completion like other games plot-wise or feeling-wise. Other games are more like, dangerous, but cozy adventure with relaxing, rewarding ending.
>>14811905
The shittiness is part of the charm
>>14790219
I find most of DDC's music to be merely okay, not really memorable. Except for Shinmyoumaru's theme which is legitimately one of the greatest themes in the entire series, along with stage five.
>>14814574
I'd add to that stage 3, the extra stage theme, and Raiko's theme.
>>14814626
and stage 4, 5 and Seija's theme
>>14814666
and stage 2 and Sekibanki's theme.
>>14814676
All of it but 1 and 3 stage and character themes.
>>14736460
This.
>>14814338
>Other games are more like, dangerous, but cozy adventure with relaxing, rewarding ending.
I wouldn't say that, Reisen's ending kind of fufilled the cosiness criteria.
For the first time in like the entire series Eirin bothered to explain things to Reisen and she effectively got to see another side of her master for once, it gave the impression they bonded a little.
Let's make no mistake about it, LoLK was pretty much Reisen's game. Marisa and Reimu were the same static characters they've always been, with Marisa's just outright having a new story hook. Sanae is even implied to have not even finished LoLK beyond Stage 5 so she's more like a side character. But Reisen's changed in character a bit since the last time we've seen her in the series and she seems to have the most complete resolution.
>>14814338
>And even SA had this classic type of ending where last boss(es) hang with Reimu after the incident is resolved.
Didn't the Extra stage pretty much end up with Hecatia hanging out at Marisa's and Junko hanging out at Eientei?
And even when we go by VFiS Clownpiece is now implied to be chilling with Reimu as well.
>>14832348
>>14832398
Why did you post twice?
>>14736383
It was okay.
>>14773208
I personally dislike UFO and TD for both the gameplay and the story. I know a lot of people liked the religious arc, but I always thought Touhou was at its strongest when it was about youkai. ZUN has this magical way of making each youkai feel extremely unique in both design and personality, but when it comes to religion I can't be bothered to even care for them. The only reason I, as example, remember Shou is because of the curved lasers. And that's literally it.
>>14778430
I think the problem with pointdevice lies with the game design itself.
With Legacy you use the same strat you always have. Gather as much bombs and lives as you can and carry them as far, until you start to just deathbomb through the last bit of it.
So pointdevice tried to put more emphasis on actually capturing the spellcards and give you a tool do so, without having to constatly go through earlier stages you cleared a million times already, or use Practice on something like Stage 4, just to lose a life in Stage 2, because you haven't done it in what feels years.
The problem with it is though that some spellcards can take up to 500 tries until you finally got it and having your power tick down is like a doom counter. So the entire process of it feels incredibly draining and being stuck on a spellcard feels to some like they aren't actually making any progress.
So all in all, pointdevice needs some more work. I think designing it around not having any bombs or only 1 bomb per stage could help, if clearing the spellcards are more rewarding or progressing further into a spellcard is more rewarding.
I like that ZUN is trying something new, since the aforementioned strat became really predictable. It basically turned into: "Oh, yeah. This boss is using lasers. Guess I'll get ready to deathbomb." instead of actually trying to figure the spellcard out and properly beat it.
>>14789787
>At some parts (especially in Junko's fight) the bullet patterns were designed specifically to be as frustrating as possible, without really reflecting the character it's based on.
I didn't like the patterns, but they reflected Junko perfectly. She literally intros herself with: "I don't feel like wasting my time with you, so I'll just kill you quickly." But you are right with the patterns being especially weak in this game the further you went into it. Clownpiece's are also super ugly.
