Alright, this has been bugging the crap out of me for a while.
We all know that Junko is crazy and wants to settle a score with a certain immortal individual imprisoned on the moon. The problem is this person's name, 「嫦娥」.
What is the canon way of reading 「嫦娥」? Is it "Chang'e" (Chinese reading), or "Jouga" (Japanese reading)?
I understand that the English translation uses the Chinese reading "Chang'e" since she was based off of a Chinese legend, but is this really the right way to approach a translation? I looked up 「嫦娥」 on both the Pixiv and Nico Nico encyclopedias, and they both use the Japanese "Jouga" pronounciation. This tells me that most, if not all, Japanese users refer to as 「嫦娥」 "Jouga", not "Chang'e":
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E5%AB%A6%E5%A8%A5
http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%AB%A6%E5%A8%A5
Chinese myth or not, I don't feel comfortable with fan translators taking a Japanese game with a Japanese script like Touhou and changing part of it to implement a Chinese reading unless ZUN meant it to be that way.
Did ZUN intend to make 「嫦娥」 read as "Chang'e", "Jouga", or "China 2.0"?
It's Chang'e
how is Chang'e pronounced in Chinese and does it resemble the Japanese Jouga?
Since Junko isn't called Chun Hu, I'm opting for Jouga.
>>14682721
Not at all, no. It's pronounced exactly like the Chinese reading Chang'e, with both words the second tone.
>>14682689
The thing is that both fandoms are on the same boat. Unless ZUN comes out and speaks about this himself, then we're all doing nothing but playing a big guessing game.
i think its pronounced Teruyo
>>14682721
This post made me listen to it on google translate and it sounds like chong-ooh.
>>14683190
When Zun writes the name 嫦娥, he writes the furigana (characters about the name) じょうが (Jouga) . He did it in SSiB and LoLK. I was never written as Chang'e.
If he wanted that name to be pronounced "Chang'e", he would have written it in katakana next to the name (something like チャンエ, but I am not sure what is the correct way to write it)
For example, Seiga's Spellcards are in Chinese, but they are written in katakana.
And the most common example is Hong Meiling/Kurenai Misuzu that become a joke.
>>14682689
>Did ZUN intend to make 「嫦娥」 read as "Chang'e", "Jouga", or "China 2.0"?
It's explicitly written じょうが.
What's important to note about translations using "Chang'e" rather than "Jouga", is that ZUN indicating the reading じょうが is not because he is attempting to tell the readers how he intends for it to be pronounced. These are somewhat uncommon kanji and it might not be immediately obvious how it should be read (the roots 常 and 我 help though). In japanese literature, 嫦娥 has always been read as じょうが, and ZUN is just informing the audience the reading as to what corresponds to the actual literature. For a modern example, the Chang'e space probes launched by China are also read じょうが in japanese.
This is why it's perfectly acceptable to translate 嫦娥 as Chang'e and not as Jouga -- the reading isn't a prescribed name, it's just how the name is traditionally read in japanese. In english, we have our own transcription, and we try to approximate the chinese pronunciation. Japanese fans don't just pronounce it じょうが "because" ZUN said so, which seems to be the basis of this objection.
>>14684103
>It's explicitly written じょうが.
>This is why it's perfectly acceptable to translate 嫦娥 as Chang'e and not as Jouga -- the reading isn't a prescribed name
Except it is. He's telling you that's the name. It's Jouga. Stop calling her Cheng'e.
>>14682689
Not gonna reading all that drugged secondary shit.
>>14684103
>It's explicitly written じょうが.
>What's important to note about translations using "Chang'e" rather than "Jouga", is that ZUN indicating the reading じょうが is not because he is attempting to tell the readers how he intends for it to be pronounced.
What the fuck? Do you even understand the purpose of furigana? It's meant to allow the audience to know how to say a kanji term--Typically, it's used to allow younger readers to read kanji, but it's also used for obscure, difficult-to-read terms written in kanji, especially uncommon names. If he explicitly written it as "Jouga" in furigana, that's how he intended for it to be read in the book. If it was supposed to be read as "Chang'e", the furigana would've been written as 「チャンエ」, not 「じょうが」.
>This is why it's perfectly acceptable to translate 嫦娥 as Chang'e and not as Jouga -- the reading isn't a prescribed name, it's just how the name is traditionally read in japanese. In english, we have our own transcription, and we try to approximate the chinese pronunciation. Japanese fans don't just pronounce it じょうが "because" ZUN said so, which seems to be the basis of this objection.
Japanese fans pronounce it as "Jouga" because it's their native way of speaking the kanji characters. Unless the author explicitly mentioned that a kanji term is supposed to be read in Japanese, the default assumption is that it's meant to be read in Japanese. You don't just change the language of whatever it is that you're translating just because it's rooted in a completely differen't country's lore.
This sounds like a UNL-style translation liberty done by English-Japanese-speaking chinks.
>>14686212
Chang'e is very cute and Jouga sounds gross.
Since the main reason translators use Chang'e is the lack of a romaji version of the name, somebody should write to ZUN on Twitter and ask him. Something like "how is 嫦娥 written in romaji?"
>>14684247
>>14686212
Buddhist terms often get translated into English into the Sanskrit romanization and not their Japanese romanization; do you think that's weird behavior as well?
>>14686403
嫦娥 is a name of a character (based on Chang'e). She isn't even Chinese (in Touhou), so I don't understand why she should be called Chang'e. It just that it is written the same in Japanese and Chinese.
Junko's case is a little different. In Japanese, it is written as 純狐, in Chinese, 纯狐 (if you look it on Google, you will find mostly Junko's pictures). The characters are similar, but they aren't the same, so people feel like there isn't a problem to call her by her Japanese name, instead of Chun Hu, since the name isn't in Chinese.
I pronounce it as "chan je"
It should be Chang'e because while not everyone would know who Chang'e even is, no one outside of Japan knows who the fuck Jouga is.
>>14686733
>She isn't even Chinese (in Touhou), so I don't understand why she should be called Chang'e.
I thought the point of Touhou was that all these characters literally are the characters that we know of from world mythology.
>>14686220
>Jouga sounds gross.
>乗駕
>>14686389
>Something like "how is 嫦娥 written in romaji?"
This is a good idea. Let's do it, /jp/!
How is this even a debate? Zun calls her Jouga and even uses the furigana じょうが. It is clear what he name is whether you like it or not.
>>14686733
Junko is literally in roman characters so her case is different.
>>14686389
>>14686779
Read the thread. Zun uses じょうが.
>>14682689
KURENAI MISUZU
Junko is cool!
it's pronounced 「ころす」
>>14689443
ちんころす
>>14686403
No shit. I didn't even realize that.
>>14689513
ちんちん侵す
>>14684247
>>14686212
Did you two even understand what the post was saying? Jesus christ.
>>14686733
She is literally Chang'e. Kaguya is literally Kaguyahime. Toyohime is literally Toyotamahime. And so on. ZUN also isn't going to use Junko's chinese name for the same reason he doesn't use english text for characters with foreign names.
