>mfw me a telling beginner at japanese translating doujinshis with jisho.org
wtf, its hardly sentences that they use, its more like they are just yelling random words that are more or less connected to their current situation
Does anyone else have this feel?
Who cares? Of course anyone translating shit for free is going to be garbage at it. If they actually knew Japanese, they'd be enjoying their Japanese media rather than wasting their time translating it.
>>14351477
Riiiiiiiiiight.
>>14351471
Who are you quoting? Anyways, Japanese and context go hand in hand. That's why it's simple but also extremely difficult due to its simplicity.
>>14351477
Not true. I can read and translate japanese to english. My problem is I don't know how to modify files for games or do cleaning for images along with typesetting. The people who do know how to do these things are fucking autistic to work with, so no thanks.
>>14351570
You would give up pretty much the moment you started. Clearly you've already given up since you're not just teaching yourself to modify game files rather than letting other people get in the way. If you can't even spend five hours researching this stuff you'll never make it through the 500+ hours required to translate your average VN. People who know Japanese have no real motivation to see something translated unless money, or perhaps delusions of fame are involved.
Translating is awful work, I hate doing it even when I'm getting paid. I can't imagine how people do it for free.
>>14351584
Suuuure buddy.
>>14351584
>People who know Japanese have no real motivation to see something translated unless money, or perhaps delusions of fame are involved.
This. I remember when I was new to the language and pumped out a few translations as a kind of "this will let me re-read this faster" back when I had to look up half the kanji I came across and reading a doujinshi took 20 minutes.
When you learn to read them at even a moderate pace, all desire and motivation to translate goes out of the window. It serves zero purpose.
The whole reason I started learning was because something I was really into wasn't being translated at all. The less stuff that's translated, the more people will be encouraged to start studying. Teach a man to fish, and all that.
If I was going to make this shit into an occupation, it wouldn't be translating nudie mags. It'd be living in Tokyo, tutoring some rich kids 1 on 1 how to speak English. Way more money, way easier, and I'd actually be helping people.
>>14351584
>give up the moment you started
I've tried doing it, in the process I taught myself how to program and how memory works for programs in order to understand how the text is handled for games.
>if you can't even spend five hours researching this stuff
the problem is there dick for resources on how to modify games for translation. If I found anything remotely useful and spent five hours reading it I wouldn't be talking to you right now.
>people who know japanese have no real motivation to see something translated unless money, or perhaps delusions of fame are involved
Since I know japanese I'm currently living in japan with a stable income. I just translate stuff into manuscripts for my friends as a hobby and to improve my reading. I don't know where you're getting this blanket statement from because it sounds retarded.
>>14351621
>improve my reading
And there we have it. You don't know Japanese bud.
>>14351627
Who made you the high king of deciding who knows how to speak a language or not?
>>14351632
I'm not him, but if you think translating improves your reading ability at all, you're very new to the language at best.
>>14351632
You're right. That was really presumptuous of me to say. But if your reading ability isn't beyond the point where improving it means more than just looking up new words, I don't think you're quite at the point where you can enjoy reading something in Japanese at the same pace you can in English or whatever your native language is.
>>14351636
>>14351642
You're thinking I don't know any of it, I wasn't explicit enough but I was talking about the one or two words every now and then I don't know that help me improve. I could get the same out of reading any other material here but doing manuscripts is more productive and isn't selfish in my eyes.
>>14351656
Translating a document takes much longer than just reading it. You have to match up the vastly different grammar systems, translate idioms, it's just generally a hassle. I can't imagine doing it for free for friends, people who only know one language really don't understand how much work you actually have to do to go from J>E or vice versa.
How is reading something for yourself "selfish"? Isn't that just what billions of people do every day? You could be getting through a lot more material, and enjoying yourself more. Don't let people take advantage of you, even if you think they're your friends.
>>14351663
>read something in japanese
>wow that was good, I want to share it with others
>they don't know japanese
>translate it for them so they can enjoy
>?!?!?!?
it's just that simple anon, you're being autistic as fuck.
>>14351666
What I don't get is why you would ever want to share anything with EOP scum.
>>14352055
Because he's not an asshole with a superiority complex.
>>14352072
I believe that most people toting the EOP meme just barely understand basic Japanese themselves. My reasoning is simple: Getting Japanese skill to a level where you can consider yourself competent takes years of dedication, study and hard work. I can't really believe that people who actually achieve such a goal are so ignorant that they cannot comprehend that not everyone has the means or the motivation to learn Japanese.
>>14352080
If you don't have the motivation to learn Japanese, there are hundreds of sites better suited for you.
Owning a working computer is the only "means" you need.
>>14351656
You can look up the "one or two words every now and then" without spending hours between those words translating to English, you know.
Anyway, this is how shitty translations get born. People bad at the language doing stuff for practice, thinking too highly of themselves.
>>14352080
>not everyone has the means or the motivation to learn Japanese.
>means
A computer and internet connection? Also basic intelligence.
>motivation
This is the part that I don't understand. If they are not motivated enough to learn the language, fuck them. It took me time and effort to learn, there's no point in translating anything for the lazy fucks.
>>14352080
They are just shitposters, of course they know barely any jap.
>>14352084
Guess you're one of these guys I mentioned then.
とにかく、私は日本語を今学んでいます。
>>14352108
まあ、頑張るぜ。
The only I can bear to do is translate short doujins and comics on Danbooru
>>14352088
>hours
It doesn't take me hours to translate though. If I'm reading a manga I can translate it as I read it and then look up words I don't know in the dictionary. It's not like I sit and translate EVERY day ALL day. It's only for certain things I want to share or my friends have interest in.
>assuming I'm shit at japanese again
you guys are bitter, besides if you're so superior at it why would you even care if there were shitty translations?
>>14351471
>its more like they are just yelling random words that are more or less connected to their current situation
I think new translators are worried about going "off script" and changing words to allow the writing to flow better in the target language. Plus they are probably just poor writers in general which is a critical skill.
Also, I hope this post is ironic because of how mangled the OP text is.
>>14352143
Shitty translations lessen the value of the work in people's eyes, I prefer works I enjoy being appreciated the way I feel they deserve to be.
I wasn't even talking of you, but in general. That said, your translations and language skills are probably bad too, just like with the vast majority of people translating for free.
Feel free to post a link and I'll criticize your stuff, though.
>>14352161
Completely changing the script to make it "sound right" is as bad as being literal.
>>14351619
>back when I had to look up half the kanji I came across and reading a doujinshi took 20 minutes
>When you learn to read them at even a moderate pace
How did you improve? I'm at the stage where it takes me 20 min to read a doujinshi.
>>14352918
You read more. It gets easier over time, you have less stuff to look up.
>>14352161
It's amazing how much better a translation is when the person who's doing it can actually write. If I have to read "Can't you read the atmosphere??" one more time I'll just gag.
>>14352937
It can't be helped.
I would TL something more than the average webcomic posted on an imageboard or some doujin someone begs me to do if I ever found something that I really felt every needed to read or if became a NEET. That hasn't happened yet and probably never will.
I don't get how someone could TL a VN or and LN unless they were a NEET or got good money for it. Most people here are probably not pros so only the joy of entertaining themselves with japanese media makes them interested in learning the language. I can see why the sort of person who bothers to learn japanese wouldn't want to TL things if it is just for personal pleasure.
I don't really visit places other than 4chan so I imagine it is a thankless job. I don't know how good your dick gets sucked if you give the unwashed masses a TL out on the open internet (reddit, animesuki, various forums etc.) but I imagine it would feel empty unless it causes a large amount of people who appreciate the work as much as you do that otherwise would never have the opportunity to read it.
>>14352937
Being able to write is a great thing for a translator if they want to do the work justice. A lot of stories stand on merit outside of their plot, such as atmosphere and the way certain things are written. Honestly I don't think I could truly capture what an author is trying to say without fear of misinterpreting something. This doesn't matter much unless it is something very worthwhile but it still bothers me.
I only translate things that I really want to share with others, which means I usually give up on anything that's longer than a doujinshi very quickly. Sometimes I try to do songs but I'm always hesitant because the Japanese isn't as standard and you have to be able to render English lyrics that don't sound retarded.
>>14352084
>If you don't have the motivation to learn Japanese, there are hundreds of sites better suited for you.
What happened to the /jp/ full of hopelessly directionless pedophiles we used to know and love?
>>14353022
Directionless pedophiles with pro japanese skills, of course.
>>14353028
Someone who has to gather up willpower just to get out of bed and avoid starving isn't going to be able to learn Japanese (and if they are they aren't going to get very far) unless there's, like, something that they feel like they absolutely must read in the original language.
I don't know if liberally shitting on EOPs is just funposting or maybe a way of feeling good about how great you are, but it hardly motivates people to learn (maybe nobody thinks that) and I honestly don't think it's done any good for /jp/.
>>14353049
>Someone who has to gather up willpower just to get out of bed and avoid starving
This describes me but I was already two years into learning Japanese when I discovered 4chan seven years ago, so I managed to learn the language before depression destroyed my life. I'm not a pedo though so I guess I still don't fit >>14353028 anyway.
>>14353049
> Someone who has to gather up willpower just to get out of bed and avoid starving isn't going to be able to learn Japanese
Those things are completely different. Learning language is not forcing you to go anywhere scary like outside full of people.
>I don't know
Such a state of mind is natural for the retards like you.
>shitting on EOPs
Isn't it natural to shit on maggots?
>it hardly motivates people
'Motivation' is a meme invented by maggots to excuse their worthlessness. Proper human beings just do it having fun.
>>14353228
>Those things are completely different. Learning language is not forcing you to go anywhere scary like outside full of people.
I'm talking more about the willingness to stay alive.
>Such a state of mind is natural for the retards like you.
Just because you're apparently god's gift to this benighted world doesn't mean your stupid meta shit is any more valid than mine.
>Proper human beings just do it having fun.
Some people are miserable faggots who find it very hard to have fun.
>>14353228
>Proper human beings just do it having fun.
Are there really people who have fun grinding flashcards?
It goes without saying that reading things in Japanese when you're first learning (especially if they're things you might like) butchers your understanding of them more thoroughly than most translations.
>>14353270
>It goes without saying that reading things in Japanese when you're first learning (especially if they're things you might like) butchers your understanding of them more thoroughly than most translations.
Well you're not going to get any better at reading without, you know, reading. Anki monkeys are only disadvantaging themselves by putting off the inevitable. If you're so worried about ruining something for yourself that you might have otherwise found entertaining, then just read something you like that you've already read in English.
>>14353282
Which is made possible by translations, looks like we've gone full circle.
>>14353314
No one's denouncing translations in general. Just bad free ones made by people who don't know Japanese that didn't even get paid for wasting their time.
>>14353241
>I'm talking more about the willingness to stay alive.
So fakeNEET bullshit, then. My direction in life is totally whimsical aside from a love of pizza, the internet, and the Japanese language. It's not hard to put in the hour of actual study a day when you've got 16 hours to spend, and can easily do 5 minutes of work then reward yourself with an hour of whatever the fuck you want.
>>14353347
How can they translate if they don't know Japanese?
>>14353677
>My direction in life is totally whimsical aside from a love of pizza, the internet, and the Japanese language.
Congratulations, it's easy for you to do things that you already love. Have a medal.
Bad translation is usually because of bad English, not bad Japanese. Anyone with basic grammar and a dictionary can understand anime/manga level shit. Reproducing it in English is the hard part. That's why groups like FFF and GG are praised despite even though they butcher the original writing style or even entire characters sometimes.
>>14353709
Google translate. Either that or they look up every noun in the sentence and try to piece together what the sentence might mean. Obviously I'm using the word "translate" here lightly.
>>14353739
Indeed, it's not as simple as just understanding the Japanese.
I remember thinking about it when I read a manga chapter with a long gag that built on the reader being supposed to misunderstand which character they were talking about, but it was between a girl and a boy, how the fuck would you write all that in English without using he/she or him/her?
I found translation to be a great way of practicing the language. it forced me to get familiar with grammar and it helped kanji and kana stick.
one half is getting the meaning from japanese, the other half is expressing it in english. it's tricky because japanese is subtle and very context-based, and it has cultural references and nuances that you can't always get across. and to translate well you also need to be very proficient at writing english prose.
most fan translations I've seen tend to be really clumsy and literalist. there's an obsession with making it accurate, but not with making it a quality work that doesn't come off stilted to a native english speaker.
translating, and doing it well, is pretty taxing mentally. if you're not getting paid well and it's not a labor of love, you probably won't stay motivated.
>>14353347
If you're good enough to declare anyone who does it for free doesn't know Japanese then how about you translate something and prove how good you are?
>>14354429
I mostly practice by translating things for personal use, that and rereading shit like in >>14353282 to see what amazing Japanese subtleties I might have missed. After two or so years of producing misleading garbage translations (that I only made the mistake of showing another person once, and was eviscerated for) I've finally reached a level where I can do things with confidence.
>>14354449
I submit that it would be more constructive to send him an example of what you consider a good, free translation and challenge him to poke holes in it.
>>14353819
Jokes on you, I use weblio
>>14354452
It's easier to just shit on everything. If he can't practice what he preaches then his opinion is worthless.
>>14354738
"Practicing what he preaches" in this case would be avoiding fan translations altogether. I'm not sure what having him make a good translation of something would prove. You don't need to be an expert translator to know when a translation sucks, just like you don't need to be an expert chef to know when a meal tastes awful. Sounds like you're just butthurt to be honest, family.
>>14354935
So you're not going to prove you know anything. k, good to know.
>>14354449
Because that would be hypocritical unless you paid me. How much are you offering?
>>14356942
Please translated this
http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2126422?
>>14357078
Not until you ask me with the proper verb tense.
>>14357078
Title is 舌禍 (slip of the tongue). She's cheering while wearing a Hanshin Tigers uniform. She says "Vやねん". It seems to be some Japanese baseball meme, in 2008 the tigers were going to win, and a magazine was printed announcing their victory, but then they ended up losing. The article is too dense for me to try reading right now though.
>>14352937
>People afraid of misrepresenting the tone and nuances of a loli mindrape doujin
Who the fuck are you quoting?
This is neo-/jp/. Indistinguishable from /a/ on the cancer radar.
>>14352937
Why can't people accept that sometimes Japanese are shitty writers? Something that's shittily written in Japanese should be shittily written in English. Don't go and write better than the original author did.
>>14357968
there is this tendency to assume that because it's in japanese, it's golden, which is not always the case. with that said, I think a skilled translator can go above the original and add to it somewhat. It's debatable whether that's staying true to the craft but I think it's ok sometimes.
thing is, if you're translating japanese, it's probably already published, and it's probably decent to begin with. the problem is not translators making it too good, the problem Ive seen is translators being technically accurate but making it sound hilarious in english (sometimes even leaving honorifics in).
>>14358151
It's not debatable it isn't staying true by definition you retard.
>>14358166
you can't understand the complexity here so you're the retard.
translation is always a balancing act between being accurate to the original text and expressing it well in the target language. therefore it is debatable whether you should add to it or not. I don't mean inserting your own content, I mean being more expressive than the original. but like I said, this is not much of an issue.
>>14358175
No. Fuck off. If it isn't in the original it is not staying true to the original. This seems too hard for you to grasp.
>>14358176
again, adding or deleting content is wrong for any translation (that's what an editor does). however, you can choose how to put it in english, and sometimes it's possible to word it in a better way while stating the same ideas.
>>14358151
There is literally nothing wrong with leaving honorifics in. There's situations in which it's okay to drop them, but there are characters who are even partially defined by the type of honorifics they use, and the only alternative is to come up with them doing retarded shit like calling people Mr./Ms. So-and-so all the time. There's a limit (that should be honored) to localizing. In the end, it's foreign people speaking in a foreign way. I mean unless it's like in fake old Europe or something in which case, fine, drop them.
>>14358198
if you want to emphasize that it's a japanese culture, then it's ok to leave in honorifics. but it's not the right decision for all media. you can often get around honorifics with mr/mrs or 'the great' for -sama, or just suggest the level of respect by context. it depends on the situation.
if you're translating a visual novel set in Edo Japan, it makes perfect sense to leave in honorifics. if it's a generic fantasy world, there's no need.
I agree that there are limits to localizing, and limits to being literally accurate. like I said, the art of translating is finding the balance.
>>14357911
The OP is a crossie but the thread itself is pure /jp/.
>>14358176
Literally every professional translator on the planet disagrees with you.
I think one thing people forget is translators have to be good in the language they're translating to too. Without reading media in both languages sufficiently, the translated phrases will often be very unnatural. Localisation tries to solve this problem but all too often the translator's english is too shitty to pull it off well.
>>14358689
No.
>>14358176
That's plain impossible because different languages are NOT word to word compatible.
>>14358737
Not him, but that is not a retort.
For example, look at this term: http://jisho.org/search/多芸は無芸
Neither example is a literal translation, but is one really worse than the other?
I mean literally its "Many skills (is) no skill(s)," but not even a dictionary is pedantic enough to put that down.
>>14358782
> but not even a dictionary is pedantic enough to put that down.
This is pretty annoying actually. They put like several different English proverbs like it's fucking English dictionary but don't even bother translating Japanese despite being Japanese dic.
>>14358724
>too
You mean first and foremost.
A translator does not actually have to be good in the language he's translating from. He just needs to be honest with himself whenever he doesn't understand something. That's what dictionaries, guides and encyclopedias are for, and even when they fail, a gigantic corpus of living contemporary Japanese is just one google search away. Time-consuming, but possible.
When your writing is shit, however, no amount of research will fix that.
>>14358908
If you look up tagei and mugei separately, you will get their individual literal definitions.
>>14357911
On topic
I agree with whoever said the situational shit,
because that is my biggest issue. Been "studying" half a year, I can only recognize 3/4 of hira, know about 100 words, can't form sentences.
>>14375548
>half a year, I can only recognize 3/4 of hira
You're supposed to have both scripts down in a day, week max.
>>14382540
Don't feed les trolls.
>>14384331
It's believable if he's taking courses.
>>14351471
I feel the same way, bro. It's like figuring out a puzzle with a few hints thrown at you (Kanji).
So many selfish elitist faggots ITT.
I translate things because I ejoy sharing them with others who like them.
>>14394265
You translate because you want to be worshiped by EOPs
>>14394341
Not him, but I translated noantica and monstergirl comics because no one knew about them.
While noantica disappeared, at least the monstergirl guy got his break. And that makes me happy.
>>14394265
Are you thinking about the content creators' rights at all when you translate and distribute their work for free? You sound pretty selfish yourself to be honest, family.
>>14394265
>ejoy
Stop ``translating.''
