Hello Ic
Who here has worked with gouache? I watched a Watts video and he was saying that gouache is the link between drawing and painting, What are IC thoughts on this? I see great benefit on being able to work with color and learning application of paint with a medium that is not as messy and expensive as oil paints. Also I want to get into gouache and know next to nothing about it. What is the Idea surface to paint on, what are good brands, any other info on Gouache would be greatly appreciated.
>>2489852
bump
me myself am very intrested in gouache, luckily for us its a very straight forward medium.
the surface can be the same as watercolor. arches paper or a thick/multi media sketchbook, also a illustration board for non study/ artpieaces.
i myself am currently gathering supplies for gouache phase I from then i'll be doing allot of outdoor paintings with James gurney as my primary source of learning. yes grab mr gurney's gouache and watercolor lessons they are great and cheap as fuck. all this is in preparion for oils. will alwyas love gouache too
also Joseph Zbukvic dvd's are a great source of knowledge, seek them out on CGP.
>>2489861
Would that be James Gurney Light and color book? Sounds like you are talking about something different.
Sorry what is CGP?
I am assuming gouache is easy to clean up and could be a medium that you could travel with, easy to use if you don't have a permanent studio thought iC?
>>2489852
isnt it just watercolor with opaque properties?
>>2489876
Yes. Something between watercolors and acrylics. It's a nice medium, especially for travelling/plein air, but it can also get quite expensive if you want proper colors. The commonly respected brands are Schmincke and Winsor & Newton and if you can't afford something somewhat decent, don't bother buying cheap 10$ stuff, it's not worth it.
>>2489866
no. i was reffering to his gumroad.
>https://gumroad.com/gurneyjourney
also sub to his youtube chanell, he has allot of usefull lessons there and bits cut of from his gumroad lessons that you can preview to make your mind.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3j-IH1mVw
>CGPEERS OR CGPERSIA.COM
its a website where your dirtiest most filthiest dreams come true.
>>2489876
yes it is the same as watercolor with the addition of opague, you dont need to worry about cleaning your brushes on site. it can be at done at home with water. and yes its ideal for plein air/outdoor paintings far better than oils in this regard.
are you by any chance a shut in from /R9K/? you fucks made my life a misery with all you r tick tock wage cuck, you better not be
>>2489897
tick tock wage cuck
>>2489897
Thanks for the links.
I am wondering if I could apply Daniel Greene premixed color palette method (pic related) to gouache. I have started to use it with oils and it works great. Also wondering if I could apply Greenes methods of portrait paint with gouache.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq2-Ytlias8
>>2489929
fuck of digineet. i bet you live on 50 pence a day and cant afford the superior materials that i wage slaved for. gas yourself.
>>2489980
you should be able to. i am not familiar with this artists or his pallete. but the color theory and even color names carry over from oil to gouache. most of the time any ways.
for example windsor and newton oil colors such as burnt umber and yellow ochre etc etc are also found in gouache, so you should be able to .
word hard for the sake of /ic/ you must to rise above this shitposting
>>2489897
>are you by any chance a shut in from /R9K/? you fucks made my life a misery with all you r tick tock wage cuck, you better not be
yaaaaaaaaawn
enjoying the break wagecuck?
>>2489991
how come youre here wagecuck?
did your boss let you have a day off?
>>2489999
well yes, i came to the conclusion that if i am to bud as illustrator i must adopt the NEET way of life, just for a year at least, i cant live with any longer a parasite. i have already talked to Mr Shekkelberg and he has agreed on my proposal for part time only.
any British Neets here? i would really appreciate advice on how to best manage my money and getting as many NEET bucks as possible.
>>2489991
Daniel Greene is a great portrait painter. He has a DVD called "Color the Daniel Greene method" It spendy at 80 bucks but well worth it, I was able to get and burn from the library, even if you have to buy it do, it is awesome, in 90 minutes you will know more then you ever did about color, very detailed yer simplified.
I did check and Windsor and Newton sell all the colors that he uses on his palette.
I recently bought some tempera colors which are pretty much cheap synthetic alternative to gouache and I love it. I bought it mostly out of nostalgia because we used these in art classes in primary school but I'm enjoying it a lot. The colors are pretty nice for the price and it lets me grind tons of color studies without spending a fortune. After I get used to it I'll buy some good gouache.
Thanks for all the resources, I'm watching the videos from Watts atelier, good stuff.
>>2490390
many companies slap tempera on their gouaches but i think koh i noor temperas are oil based not arabic rubber or w/e goes to gouache
>>2489991
>for example windsor and newton oil colors such as burnt umber and yellow ochre etc etc are also found in gouache
they would be as those are the names of pigments. The pigments don't change, just the medium.
>>2489895
M Graham gouache is also supposed to be great. I haven't used it, but I love their watercolours.
>>2490897
Beware assuming that the same company uses the same pigments for all mediums, they don't.
ie. Naples yellow, different in watercolour & oil , within the W&N artists range.
Everyone should learn gouache, better if early in their painting education. You can't turn off your brain and blur everything, every stroke tends to be more calculated. Its fairly unforgiving as you can't layer too much or it turns to mud. After using gouache, every other medium will look easy to use.
Its a pretty great medium for plein air, easy to clean and fast.
>>2491124
>Naples yellow was used extensively by the Old Masters and well into the 20th century. It largely replaced lead-tin-yellow during the eighteenth century. The genuine pigment is toxic, and its use today is becoming increasingly rare. Most paints labeled "Naples yellow" are instead made with a mix of modern, less toxic pigments. The colors of these paints vary considerably from one manufacturer to another.
This is why: it's not the actual pigment. So yeah...
A good surface is Arches watercolor paper 300 gsm hot press, which is very smooth, allowing for much detail and ease of drawing on. As mentioned before something like Crescent Illustration Board is also good, but it's bulkier, probably more for finished pieces.
I have personally used both Winsor & Newton and M Graham. They're both great but I default to W&N because I live in Europe and I'm not a big fan of importing my paints from the US. They behave similarly, M.Graham being a little more "buttery", probably from using honey as their binder, keep that in mind if you want to go outside with those. Maybe bees will attack you.
I prefer synthetic brushes for gouache, the water to paint ratio is very important and natural kolinsky sables and such are water sponges, making it unwieldy in my opinion. Watts uses Robert Simmons White Sable brushes and they are fantastic, again for my sake i'm not a big fan of importing from the US constantly so I use British Rosemary's "Shiraz" brushes, also synthetics and very similar.
Can anyone post nice gouache works? I can't find much.
>>2492309
>>2492310
>>2492311
>>2492309
tick tock wagecuck
Can't go wrong with papa Gurney
and Syd Mead
koh i noor has a product called opaque watercolors
is it similar to gouache? i cant find what its made out of
Which gouache brands do you recommend?
>>2492340
thee top of the line: Windsor and newton
protip: not for NEET pricks
>>2492406
tick tock wagecuck
>>2492331
I have a koh-i-noor store near my school and I have literally never seen those. Anyways this looks pretty dodgy and I wouldn't bet on it eing any good. They sell their temperas which are simmilar to gouache. The quality is not great but ok for the low price so go with that if koh-i-noor is convenient for you. Umton temperas (made in czech republic as well) are a direct step-up from that but way more expensive. Then after that it's real gouache territory and other anons have already suggested the good brands.
>>2492406
>hmm, I'll become wagecuck soon, let's check it out
>huh, can't find them in my country, only Talens, Royal Talens, Phoenix etc.
>let's check out main site
>x4 more expensive than 24 tubes for 5 basic colors
Oh my God...
>>2492971
Talens is good, they're just not very popular in the US so no one recommends it.
>>2492971
i can get talens 35ml for 3 euros
or umton 50ml for 2-4 euros
so yeah thats like 1 hour of wagecucking per color where i live
Holbein and Turner are great brands as well.
I would buy yourself a cheapcheapcheapcheap huggeee bottle of white. Use that as your "mixing white" and save some nice white for highlights/accents.
White is something a LOT of gouache artists run out of the most.
>>2492309
http://www.thebillmayer.com/#/new-gouache/
Bill Mayer is a gouache freak.
>>2493310
Where?
>>2493580
Slovakia
>>2493470
In buying and mixing with a cheap white would that not affect the quality of the other colors?
With gouache is white preferred over more water when lighting colors?
>>2489852
why not just paint with watercolors and then move to gouache
>>2493729
>>why not just paint with watercolors and then move to gouache
Never really like water colors, Hate having to preserve the white areas. Like the opaque qualities of gouache. End goal is to get into portrait painting with oil. Want to get there ASAP in the best way possible. Gouache seems like a good way to get good with color, not as messy as oils, and it dries quick.
>>2493729
Watercolor isn't opaque and is difficult to control. Also admittedly you have less chance for major fuck up when you draw from dark to light than the opposite.
I'm major n00b, but I would try gouache before watercolor. Also horror stories from school where shitty watercolors were used and everything looked like poop.
>>2493742
>implying you can't make an at least decent painting with crap materials
I wouldn't make something to sell with them, but they're okay for practice.
Gouache is shit tier medium, it becomes dull and grey after a while and it just doesnt dry completely, you can reactuvate dry paint with just a drop of water, meaning glazing is impossible. Go buy set of acrylics
>>2492340
If you're in US, m graham is the best price/quality.
>>2493903
Sounds like you're just bad at gouache.
>>2493716
The more water you add the more thin and transparent it gets, becomes more simmilar to regular watercolor.
>>2493716
Its an opaque medium, get a decent big tube of white. Adding water and painting more transparently is a no-no (might as well watercolor at that point), gouache should be about consistency of milk.
Doesn't gouache dry darker? I had a hard time because of that.
>>2493716
Cheap white has no pigment you're trying to preserve. It's merely a lightening agent. The quality of the pigment lies in what you're mixing it into. You don't want to spend 25.00 on dinky ass 37 ml tube of designer gouache, when you know you're mixing it with every fucking thing and aren't using it true.
Gouache is essentially a reworkable acrylic. Lay something down, don't like it, re-wet and wipe off. Or do wet/wet techniques. You want the consistency as liquid acrylic. I would add only a wet brush full of water to a thick piece of gouache. It borders a fine line of being too much water and too little.
>>2493903
Never had this happen. If you're using a 4.99 set of 12, don't be surprised.
>>2494376
It dries lighter.
My technique for skin tones is to keep a base, and then lightly darken it before it dries out by adding a darker color. It's a medium you gotta work fast in, or things take a turn for the worst. (too much water on her arm, shadows too dark, colors look blocked in bad, etc)
>>2494392
of all that talk and the result is that rubish? sorry i had in mind breatha taking landscape or riveting portrait not some fucking cartoon mermaid, its low tier than fucking animu
gas yoursel, please
>>2493564
Those pics of his are indeed, amaze.
>>2494782
Post your work.
No wait, sorry... Learn to spell *then* post your work
>>2495036
BUTHURT ANON, JUST IMPROVE
>>2494392
I like the mermie. Better than 90% of jellyfags
>>2494782
I sell these small 5x7s for 100 bucks. How you making money, honey? Yes, please, show me your work. I'd love to see how shit tier you are with your sketchy-looking pen and ink skills.
>>2495415
I use gouache. And I sell art. I'm just trying to participate in the thread, not shove myself at others as being the "greatest artist ever".
>>2494392
Dries lighter? I must have used a shit brand, what do you use?
btw like the mermies
>>2495489
No it dries darker for most paints, since the water you mix in will make it look lighter. As it evaporates all you see is pigment left behind, making it dry darker.
>>2495463
Your contributions make this thread better than most found on /IC/.
Thank you, anon. You're awesome.
>>2495489
I'm not sure if dries darker is accurate vs. drying lighter. Depending on how much water you use it's pretty true to form like an acrylic paint. Holbein makes "Acryla Gouache" which is basically reacts like a reworkable acrylic. Like anon said they see it dry darker? I add color to make the shadows darker because the skin tone lightens up so. It might have something to do with the mixable white to get skin tones vs. straight up, out of the tube, colors? And obviously, wet -> dry.
>>2496136
I appreciate that. :) Thank you so much.
>>2492340
as >>2493470 said Holbein is a good brand, actually I'd say is just as good as W&N and you would be getting it for less money, I think even Watts recommends it.
>>2495463
I've been meaning to do something similar to sell, like children illustrations in gouache, I've seen they sell well since parents want something to hang on their kids's room, and there are many of them willing to do so. Your work is pretty good by the way.
>>2495463
>I sell these small 5x7s for 100 bucks.
No shit? Do they sell often?
They're good, no doubt, but I'm surprised you can command that high of a price. Good job though, I do like the illustrations.
>>2496778
I think it's that light colors dry darker and dark colors dry lighter.
What's the difference/benefit of gouache over acrylic? The main difference seems to be that gouache is reworkable, but that only seems to create problems for me. Like, it seems to me acrylic should be even better when it comes to fixing mistakes since you could just paint right over it never to be seen again, whereas with gouache you risk just fucking it up further by mixing layers into a muddy mess and overworking the paper.
I've never tried acrylic, so I might be wrong, but I'm thinking of switching over and seeing if I prefer it.
>>2490003
Is that considered comfy in your country? Holy shit. A month here is considered the norm. If you live in America I guess at least you guys make a lot more money than us (France).
>>2499966
Is it true you guys also have like a 30 hour work week or some shit? How does anything even get done?
>>2497302
Acrylics are much harder to get nice, even gradients with because it dries at lightning speed. I vastly prefer gouache because it just flows a lot better but the argument you are making is fair. I dunno man, different strokes for different folks, stick to acrylics if you like their feel better.
>>2500014
32 hour
Because people are happy and motivated.
I'm a school teacher and I would never go back to being an office drone though. I need my 18 weeks holiday for art.
Gouache paintings by Stepan Kolesnikoff
>>2500045
I keep fighting the inevitable being a freelance editor and caricature artist but one day I will accept my fate and become a teacher.
American teachers do get fucked compared to europeans though. I taught english in france through their program for a year and it was like 2 weeks off every five, virtually free university, incredible health insurance, and the students are 10x better, even the shitty ones.
>>2500449
Holy Moly, these are amazing.
>>2500449
Cool stuff
Any good free/downloadable video tuts on gouache? Neither Watts or Gurney's stuff seems to have been aquired by the pirates
Also, are those plastic palettes with little cups suitable for gouache?
>>2500623
liking this, even though it's digital...
>>2500940
syd mead works in gouache and videos easy to find. So did most of the old school illustrators, look em up.
>>2500449
Great post, what a gem.
How do you combine multiple images like that? I would like to do one for the gauche work of Egon Schiele
>>2494392
I love these! Does anyone know if merm-anon has a blog or a website?
Bump because traditional threads are rare.
Bump also!
I want to get into color because it's finally time, and I have a lot of cheap LIDL-grade-gouache which my loving mother has accumulated for me during my years. Good for practicing until my fingers bleed. I want some cheap-ass paper to go with that, but not so cheap that it squanders learning gouache application technique etc. Someone wrote Arches-paper, which costs a fucking fortune (equivalent of 60$ for 10 pieces of paper in my country).
>>2505979
This paper is pretty great for the price. 100% cotton, doesn't smell like arches.
http://smile.amazon.com/Bee-Paper-Watercolor-6-Inch-9-Inch/dp/B0044SAXKQ/ref=pd_sim_201_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=31i6nnnV-tL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=12GJVR3Z3NNG7EAEFSBE
>>2505989
>http://smile.amazon.com/Bee-Paper-Watercolor-6-Inch-9-Inch/dp/B0044SAXKQ/ref=pd_sim_201_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=31i6nnnV-tL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=12GJVR3Z3NNG7EAEFSBE
Seems awesome, unfortunately it isn't available in Sweden and buying from Amazon is a hassle because customs and astronomical shipping fee.
You seem knowledgeable; any european-available brand to look out for?
>>2505979
Just get a pad of watercolour paper.
This thread inspired me to go out and buy some gouache yesterday. Here's a few studies I did
>>2506525
I like em, nice work
>>2505991
just buy fabriano or other good watercolor paper
>>2506727
I'll try it, but won't gouache act like transparent watercolors on that kind of paper, which demands a lot of water? Can i pile up the paint on a grainy paper like that, dry?
>>2500449
This guy has painted gouache on cardboard, not paper and it looks amazing.
>>2501699
This particular picture is from http://linesandcolors.com/2015/02/04/stepan-kolesnikoff-kolesnikov/
Just use photoshop brah
>>2489852
I've worked with gouache. It's nice cause it dries fast and I feel I can get a painting done pretty quickly. But, it takes some time to get used to. I suggest painting on a crescent illustration board or thick paper.
Angus McBride I think paints with gouache.
>>2495463
Unless your name is Liana Hee, no you don't sell these. Don't know how you thought you were going to take credit for a Disney artist's work.
>>2508763
If you look closely, the two signatures are completely different.
I'm not saying anon does sell th, buy these are clearly two different artists.
>>2508769
No, they both have the same signature and the mermaids done like this have always been Liana's thing.
>>2496778
has "lihee" as the filename even.
>>2508785
Whoop my bad, I was looking at the picture you posted. I relinquish my doubts.
>>2508763
Maybe it's her...who knows how many real accomplished artists are secretly /ic/ shitters.
>>2489852
Hey Thread, Op here, thanks for all the good info, found that I had a cheap set of gouache and have done a study, really seems like a good method to get used to working with color.
Is it worth getting super cheap artist's loft gouache just to practice?
>>2513874
No, the cheap gouache are watery and not opaque enough. You'll have a tough enough time learning the right consistency with artist grade. Get m graham or something.
>>2489852
worth mentioning that gouache was a very common medium historically, although it was usually used with watercolours. Most commonly artists like Turner or Cotman painted with watercolour and then worked in with gouache where they wanted opaque areas - very often the figures in landscapes were added with gouache after the rest was finished.
btw, gouache is french. In english it was known as bodycolour. If you search the collections of a big museum (eg the british museum) you'll find thousands of examples going back centuries.
