I heard from a client recently that Magic the Gathering pays artists 100,000 dollars a piece (but treats you like a slave with revisions and shit) Is this a load of bullshit?
Do any of you know anyone whose actually worked for big companies like that?
This thread is for companies and their wages and work experience.
>>2595965
100k per piece hahaha
you're fucking daft
>>2595967
This
It's more than 100k
>>2595965
yeah not very far off
>>2595965
Did you mean to type 1000 dollars?
>>2595965
>(but treats you like a slave with revisions and shit)
They are literally getting paid more than the house i live in. Slaving is such dumb word to use for that kind of payment
More like $1,000 I think, for the average piece. I don't know about lots of revisions. I should hope not. $1,000 isn't that much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAQbTEz4PDM
>>2595965
I think they pay about $800.
>>2596013
Oh fuck off. There aren't a whole lot of jobs where you can make $1,000 a week from your own fucking home.
>>2595965
wessenpai is so good
Noah Bradley has said he charges between 1200 to 1600 for a "piece on the level of his portfolio" which is around the same level that WotC asks for. Not to mention the fact that 100K per piece would mean every set has 23~25 million art budget and I don't think that's even Wizard's entire net worth.
>>2595965
https://www.artpact.com/
Just check art pact, they have reviews and wages listed for tons of companies. (Magic pays closer to 1kUSD and is considered to be one of the best companies to work for as freelancer. I also know a couple people who have done magic work, it's considered a dream job/goal for a lot of people. Not sure where the fuck 100k came from though. )
>>2596221
>1,000 a week
Its usually a month long deadline for this kind of work. So no, 1k isn't that much for a month.
>>2595965
>100k
It's a years worth of what their chief engineer/chief of technology probably earns. I can assure you that they wouldn't pay anything like that to some artist to draw them land.
$1000 indeed might be more likely but I wonder if it is even that.
Consider that top fine arts realist guy who drew portrait of George W. Bush wants $75k for full oil painting that takes him week(s) to make and it's still an outrageous price inflated by galleries and art sellers. In that case you paint for a name and to have "original painting of X" in your house.
Commercial artists will never see money like that. $500-$1000 piece range is usual for working artists/pros.
>>2596004
>They are literally getting paid more than the house i live in
The house you live in is a freelance illustrator as well? Shit nigga try english
>>2596507
Many companies pay in houses as opposed to cash. I got a 3 bed/1.5 bath bungalow for a freelance job last month.
>>2596517
no memes. post your work
100k? top fucking kek
more like 500 bucks
maybe it's 100k per year full time in house job
>>2595965
even if its 1k , it would last me for a couple of months
>>2596517
I've got to stop taking work paid in houses, I've got a dozen sheds and crack den's now, I don't even know what to do with them
>>2596252
Even if it is a month, do you know how much you bring home working for $10 an hour, 40 hours a week for a month? About $8-900. So I'd much rather be painting than working at a gas station. Just because you can't survive on that, doesn't mean millions of other people can't.
> I can survive off of x a month - Anonymous Artist
What is retirement fund? What is emergency fund? What is health insurance? What happens when you need to replace your car one day?
> (40x4)10 = 900 - Anonymous Artist
What is math?
Why are artists so fucking retarded?
>>2596252
The deadline might be a month, but that doesn't mean the illustration takes 160hrs to complete. I imagine most getting steady work would have a few concurrent projects staggered a bit.
>>2596736
You can sell them. I''d accept payments in houses. Just wait until it was a strong sellers market n BAM! More money!
>>2596819
>having a car
>retirement
why are normalfags so fucking retarded?
>>2596231
This is honestly really suprinsing to me. My no-name teacher did a piece for Rolling Stone and got paid like 5000. I guess editorial work might be where the money is at?
>>2596746
Your math skills are unreal.
40 x 4 = 160 x 10 =1600, taxes taken out wouldn't be half of that.
Peter Mohrbacher sells 50 limited edition prints of each of his personal paintings for $74 a pop. $3,700. We'll say $3,000 to account for cost of printing and mailing. And he gets to retain ownership of the work so he can make books, figurines, license that shit out for a movie or videogame down the road, whatever.
And all he does is paint some jew angels or whatever over and over again, floating in static poses with some clouds in the background.
So if you're on the level of being hireable by MtG, why bother slaving away for them for a paltry 1k and never owning anything yourself... When you can do your own shit and earn just as much if not more. Record every painting while you're at it and put it up on Patreon for a few additional shekels.
>>2597185
magic pays around 1-3k per piece, depending on complexity/subject/ect
some people just like making cards for them. the originals can sell for a bit too if you find the right collector.
>>2597216
This is about right -- $800-$3000. The upper part being pretty uncommon. Usually reserved for stuff like planeswalkers. Keep in mind that you only get so many cards to do a year, and when you're new, that's maybe 1 or 2.
While MTG pays the "best" technically, that's not really saying much. Moreso the problem is the rest of the industry (sans stuff like book covers or TOR.com work) pays like shit. Fantasy Flight, for instance, pays $150 a card (which is up from $100, and that's recent).
>>2596231
Lmao. Noah Bradley is not even very good. He's a pretty middling-level pro.
Dave Rapoza is FAR superior to him, so if he charges that much, I assume Rapoza, doing advertising campaigns and licensed work, is quite well off.
>>2597313
hmmm. Just realized Dave Rapoza's highly polished stuff is pretty much what Paul Bonner 's stuff would look like if Paul Bonner understood how to properly compose and light a scene.
>>2595965
>pays artists 100,000 dollars a piece
Not a fucking chance, you could be the best illustrator in the world doing a book cover for one of the best selling books of all time and you won't be making that. How do I know? Do artists do more than one illustration for Wizards a year? Yes? Okay then, if I were making 100k per painting you can bet I'd do one painting a year, if that.
>>2597359
Bonner does paint everything as if it were an overcast day, now that you mention it.
>>2595965
WotC pays $800-$1,000 and it's only a bitch if you're unlucky enough to be drawing one of the main characters or one of their SJW pleasers. (Recently, they made an artist replace a female vampire for a male vampire after the illustration was done, for the sake of homo "representation")
>>2595965
>>2599050
Try more around 1600 for your first piece, more if you're a regular.
That seems to be the standard for TCG games. I have done work for a japanese publisher(through a wester studio-firm-ADfreelancer) and was offered to do 2 applibot images in 2014 but had to cancel due to a non-compete agreement I signed when moved to a new studio job.
I actually had no idea what they paid just like you. I originally was like "1200?" and the AD was like "Hey man uh... 1600 is our starting,,,, so..." I ended up doing 4 cards for that firm.
>>2596252
it's not a month long deadline. It's more like 2 weeks per painting (this includes revisions).
>>2596252
Yes and no.
Lets put this in perspective with an example: Johannes Voss since he's been a d/ic/k in the past and arguably on a level someone here who really trains hard, can get to.
12 new cards with art by Johannes Voss were printed last year, that's $12k
These cards weren't printed monthly, MtG releases a new set every three months, art is produced nine months in advance to the set's release, and there's also supplemental products.
With that in mind this was Voss' year:
>Jan: His promotional Stoneforge Mystic art is released $1000
>Feb: Nothing.
>Mar: 2 arts featured in Dragons of Tarkir. $2000
>Apr: Nothing
>May: 1 art featured in Modern Masters 2. $1000
>Jun: 2 arts featured in Magic Origins. $2000
>Jul: Nothing
>Aug: Nothing.
>Sep: 3 arts featured in Battle for Zendikar. $3000
>Oct: Nothing.
>Nov: 1 art featured in Commander 2015. $1000
>Dec: 2 arts featured in Oath of the Gatewatch. $2000
Theoretically, that's $1000 a month but in practice that's comfy as fuck because you have a steady income that you are aware of and can count on, you know when you can take a break and when you need to look for side jobs and thanks to the wonderfully slow nature of the printing business, you don't have to worry about last minute changes on a piece you delivered months ago and haven't even been paid for like in the video game, movie, marketing and television industries.
>>2596819
I spend $300 on services, $150 in food and $150 in amenities on a careless month. Can cut at least $200 off that if I'm being a miser without even living uncomfortably.
$1000 a month from a single client sounds amazing.
>>2597185
You can do both, Mohrbacher messed up.
>>2599070
Why would you put this much effort into something you have absolutely no clue about?
It's not $1,000 an illustration even for a fresh freelance contractor but considerably more for someone like that. Honestly I could see him making a lot more per illustration because his art is going to be used on much more than just the card. The packs, posters, boosters, ect. I honestly have NO IDEA how much someone get's paid for something like that though. Even if he did just card art I honestly expect him to get double the starting rate ($1300-$1600) per card.
He can easily make one card every two weeks but again I know that art being used as covers or promo is considerably more difficult. The ADs will not only have to pass the art through producers, but marketing as well. There will be a lot more revisions for art like this. I made a card used for promo for a different company once but since I was a new freelance artist for the studio I didn't get a lot of say in my contract.
I was paid roughly $5500 for 4 cards in a 2 month period.$1000(20% standard) of that went to taxes. This was not my only income during that time because a single card illustration does not take a full 80 hours to create. A lot of those 2 weeks is downtime waiting for feedback especially if the other people are in different time zones. At my level and at my current rate, I can make roughly $72,000 a year if I worked full time hard. This is not always feasible as part of the downside of freelance work is you do not have guaranteed work. With that in mind I would be able to work a little less than full time, take weekends off, and still get between $50,000-$60,000 if I put in the hours needed to find the work.
(continued)....
>>2599082
That is about 1 full illustration a week, more than likely a bit less than that so 3-4 a month. Now, if I get a concept gig it's not full illustration but sketches, feedback, skype calls, emails, research, whatever. I much prefer the latter since it's a bit more creative IMO. I am also a very fast painter so quick iteration work is more my calling. I really hate working on a pieces for a long ass time,
A great thing about a company like WotC is they will be more likely to reuse you again and again. if you are not a people person you will fail as an artist. Especially a freelance artist.
>>2599082
Voss himself said he made $1000 a card when he was coming here. Bradley has claimed up to $1600, Cearley $1200, the mexican guy $1100, RK Post told me they made $800-900 per card when he was still working for them, and Terese Nielsen has sold her originals for ridiculous ammounts.
Artists themselves claim wildy different incomes from Magic card art. And even if it was really just $1000, it's still a relatively good wage per project compared to other freelance work that takes much more time, for much less $$/Hr and has you biting your nails at 4am rather than calmly waiting for the next correction or project while working on something else.
>>2599094
If WotC really only pays $1000 starting they are only doing it to dumb, naive artists. the two game companies I worked with both charged exactly $1600 so it really does make me think it's industry standard. That pricepoint also falls inline with what books and magazines would pay for a cover(one side $1500, full wrap would be around $3000 for small print runs) or full page magazine illustration. Companies like ImagineFX get away with a lot less since, from my experience, artists just like to work for them. ImagineFX also likes to just pay for the rights of an already finished illustration a lot of the times which is cheaper than commissioning a brand new image.
Experienced game companies know it's great art that sells their shit. Even mobile knock off devs like Gameloft will pay full price for good illustrations. Keep in mind the Asian markets are where most of their money comes from.
In the last 7 years I have been contacted twice for a job in Shanghai. There is no way in hell I would move to china though. Just good god no.
>>2599106
Forgot to mention another standard prices for anyone wondering about children books.
Children books are always 32 pages long. Every publisher has the exact same rates since they don't like to get into bidding wars. (As a sidenote about bidding wars, if a publisher finds out you are pitching your book to multiple publishers at once they won't even consider your book. They absolutely hate dealing with that shit) The starting rates for every new children books illustrator is $7500 to illustrate the whole book. They pay the same for writers, $7500 per book. If you illustrate and write the book yourself, you get $15,000 per book.
The more books you make for a publisher the more you get. Depending on how well your previous books sold that is. Publishers prefer your book to be fully written and drawn(not necessarily full color though) before you pitch it. They also do not like unsolicited book pitches. You are much more likely to get your book considered if you find out who is that publisher's scout(easily found online) and write them a personal letter asking permission to submit your book. Be kind and considerate while you wait for their reply.
Once you get permission submit your book for review. If they accept your book they will let you know within a few months and if they don't they will send you a rejection letter. If you get rejected, try someone else.
You can also contact known writers with your portfolio to see if they would like to work with you. This is a great way to get your foot in the door but again... don't be a dick about it spamming these poor people.
>>2599106
When Mohrbacher left one of the gossips of the day was about WotC not increasing their wages like the rest of the industry, and how LotC paid more and with less meddling from marketing. That would have coincided with the Battle for Zendikar/Oath of the Gatewatch sets' development which are indeed of a lower artistic quality and filled with noobs most of whom really aren't on the same level of people like Nielsen, Avon, Daarken or Jason Chan.
Is anyone gonna share their contacts?
A man has to eat
>>2599114
And that's when illustrators will stop working for them and go "Wait, that unknown shitty asian mobile dev pays HOW MUCH? Fuck you wizard." I guarantee the extra money that WotC aren't paying their average artist is being saved for those big name guys like Jason Chan. That $1000 figure makes a lot more sense seeing some of the absolute shit that makes it onto the cards.
WotC seems to get by a lot like ImagineFX but no amount of prestige or childhood dreams are worth being paid only half what the competition is getting. They are going to realize how good art is worth that extra money now that mobile games (and more importantly the asian markets) are massive cash cows for the entertainment industry. Movies, video games, mobile games, e-sports, ect are all being changed quite a bit so they can be catered to that market.
Good god do asians love meticulously rendered big ass titties.
>>2596538
Lol where the fuck do you live? That barely covers one month worth of bills and rent here
>>2599145
>meticulously rendered big ass titties
you gay son
>>2596538
Where the FUCK do you live? In the slums of Mumbai? That barely covers rent and bills for a month here.
>>2599162
europe
>>2599132
Was hoping for the contacts too...
I've been trying those artdrops emails, but damn, even the automatic reply took me 4 months to come....
Also too autistic to contact the ADs on FB trying to start some conversation, like "Hey Cynthia, check out this awesome illustration I've made. Now give me some fucking job! Goddamit!"
>>2599145
>And that's when illustrators will stop working for them and go "Wait, that unknown shitty asian mobile dev pays HOW MUCH? Fuck you wizard."
Which is exactly what happened, Rigney, Chan, Chippy, and many others haven't worked for WotC in a while despite still making card art for other games.
>>2599162
>rent
That's your problem.
I own my house and I can live easy with $1000 a month, and even save money.
Rent is the kike's most powerful weapon and nowadays it's getting even worse, San Fran, Toronto, Chicago, Seattle, Ontario and other cities popular among young people are being bought by chinese landlords and appreciating brutally.
>MTG art
>1k USD
..not the minimum right? I was told before the absolute minimum was 500 USD and that was after their price hike, which is even worse. But I've also seen asian (korean and japanese) mobile game art with similar specs (they are essentially card art and also have similar revision counts) paying even less. I know someone who takes those jobs regularly and they pay ~200 USD.
>>2599906
Even if you aren't paying rent, between taxes, utilities, food, transportation, art supplies, home insurance, health insurance, cell phone, internet, random expenses, the 1% a year average you pay on home maintenance, HOA fees if you are in a condo or some neighborhoods, and car insurance (because in any of the Americans cities where you don't need a car, 1000 would never be enough to survive a month) and whatever else I'm leaving out you'd be able to survive in a lot of markets but you certainly wouldn't be putting much aside for a rainy day and retirement and your life would be pretty fucking grim.
>>2599931
transportation? art supplies? i do digital art in home and every i need to go is at walking distance
home insurance? why?
cell phone? what do you mean? i use wifi all the time and chat apps, rarely call anyone
car insurance? dont need car but there is public transportation
health insurance is free here, well paid with taxes obviously as well as retirement
enjoy your land of freedom!
>>2599931
lollololol
Where I currently live, I can get a 2 bedroom apartment or a duplex for $300 a month. Utilities - Electric, $60 water $20, sewage $8, trash $10, gas $15, internet $30 would be about $140~ a month. Don't need a cell phone, home maintenance is covered in the lease, don't need a car (bike)
I can easily eat for less the $150 a month. Seriously, breakfast dozen eggs, loaf of bread, cheese cost $1 a day. $30 a month for breakfast. Lunch will be shit like sammich and soup, so $2 a day for lunch. $90 now. Will be about the same for dinner. A single pizza will give me 4 fucking meals and they cost what? $8? If I have salads or fruits for snacks and sides easily $2 a meal
That puts me at $590 a month of living expenses. Live with my GF so it's like $350 a month.
If you're working freelance you have literally NO FUCKING REASON to live somewhere expensive.
>>2603727
>2 bedroom apartment or a duplex for $300 a month
Where do you live?
>>2603727
Where do you live? I must go to this place.
>>2603787
$30/mo rural internet? Any good? It seems like all my options inna woods are overpriced scams.
>>2597142
no, its too inconsistent. 5k editorial job comes once in a blue moon. Thats why he's a teacher to make consistent income.
Im no art student here, but I would imagine that if you were a full-time artist you would be working on multiple jobs from multiple sources at once? Relying on a single company to pay all of your bills sounds like a disaster, and a quick way to get fired.
>>2603805
I'm not TOO far from my "downtown". I'm not like living on a country road on a farm or completely "innawoods".
It's just DSL so it's not bad. I get 10mbs/1.5mbps up with average 40-60 latency.
I currently have a "deal" of $30 a month for a year so I have no idea what it's going to be when it runs out.
>>2603876
>working on multiple jobs from multiple sources at once? Relying on a single company to pay all of your bills sounds like a disaster, and a quick way to get fired.
Do you mean freelance? If so, depending on the job, most artists work for multiple companies at a time. When I worked at a studio I would also take whatever freelance work came my way.
Here's the thing though. At my studio I had to sign a non-compete agreement that said I couldn't do any freelance work for other video game companies while I was working at that studio. Sometimes if you're working as a freelancer and get a temp-full time contract you will also have to sign an agreement like this. So those 6 months you are on contract for that company you can't work for anyone else as outlined in the agreement.
BUT you can still do freelance work for things that aren't in that agreement. Like for example, while at that studio I couldn't do freelance work for other game devs but I could still do freelance for imagineFX or book cover illustrations.
My oil painting professor told me his professional portrait painter friend is paid 100k - for a portrait of the president.
MtG modern art is shit anyways.
>>2604461
so how's highschool? My teachers ex girlfriend's brother once said sucking dick behind a 7/11 was how she found a dropped lottery ticket that ended up winning her $100million.
Presidential portraits are shit anyways.
How many portraits of the president get made a year dipshit.
>>2603885
>dis nigga
What kinds of book covers? What was the average pay? Can you make a living or no?
Reason I'm asking is because while I do want to work with Wizards of the Coast or Games Workshop or ILM or any movie/game, I don't think they'll hire a newbie who just got out of artschool who has very little professional experience. And so the thought of "getting my feet wet" through book covers or internal illustrations might help build a portfolio as well as get my work in circulation before I make the jump to WotC or GW or ILM.
I feel like the workflow and intensity would be much different working at a place like ILM in comparison to someone wanting a book cover though.
