just finished looking through Vade Zapora's CA sketchbook.
>http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php/67096-Mr-Delicious-loves-art-(Full-on-Body-Contact)
what studies/exercises gave you results, and what did you do that wasted your time?
>>2564121
Stop posting retarded threads like this.
No one is going to give you an exact battle plan on how to improve. If you actually looked through his sketchbook then you'd know what he did to improve. The idea that someone could give you a way to study only things that "don't waste time" is retarded, what you study and hope to accomplish is totally based on what sort of art you want to do.
Ultimately the overall idea is very simple. In the beginning when you don't know shit you go find art you like and work towards making your stuff more like it. After you get a bit more experienced you can decide to veer away from that more towards your own way of working. Study things from real life and apply that to your personal work. Simple.
No one can tell you the best way to paint backgrounds from photos, or how best to paint figures to study, you have to figure that shit out on your own by doing it. No one on his board even has enough expearence to give you an informed answer anyway. They'll just repost some BS crap some other anon told them they think is gospel.
Stop wasting time and just go paint shit. The idea of "saving time" for something that takes half a dozen years to accomplish is retarded.
>>2564121
Master studies. Copying my favorite artists and studying their work and how and why it works. Not a single thing have taught me more
>>2564152
I'll be a little more specific. Copying rough drawings of comic book artists have taught me a lot about figure construction.
>>2564133
I'm not asking for myself, I'm asking you anon.
They say everyone improves differently and all that.
>>2564121
>what did you do that wasted your time?
shitposted on /ic/
>>2564121
>what did you do that wasted your time?
videogames, procrastinating on imageboards and irc/instant messengers, the usual shit
Morons on IC need to forget about the idea of "wasting time" learning "incorrectly" meme.
Unless you're a total moron trying to learn detailed anatomy by only drawing gestures (for example) you're going to get better as long as you're constantly working towards it in a basic common sense way. (I.E. Longer poses focusing more on the details.) You don't need some idealized roadmap to cut 3 weeks off a 5 year journey. People more concerned about the perfect way to do something rather than just doing something never make it because they never get out of the planning stages. If you're working constantly 8 -10 hours 5 to 6 days a week for years, even if you're studying "the wrong way" you'll be way ahead of the guy trying to plan it out only putting in half the time. More efficient ways of working come with time and experience, the only way to get that is by putting in the hours.
>>2564162
How did and do I improve? I draw from imagination and when I can't draw something the way I want I get reference and study that. How did I improve initially? I drew from life, anatomy, still lives, drawing from imagination in my sketchbook, etc. The same generic advice everyone gives, how do you think self taught people learned before the "tutorial culture" sprung up.
There's no specific plan I could lay out for you thats bulletproof. The general idea that everyone follows should be enough for someone to get started, work from imagination and study from life what you're deficient in. It takes years and there are so many variables that no specific advice given to me years ago could have lead me to this point now. I had to figure it out as I went. Can't draw faces well enough? Ok spend 6 months drawing heads, some quick, some longer, some painted some drawn each morning for my study block. Over time I got better at drawing heads and faces. Rinse, repeat for every subject matter.
>>2564219
post work
>>2564219
Easy on the insults irritated Ian, this is a hugbox forum that requires respect from everyone
>People are more concerned about the perfect way to do something rather than just doing something never make it because they never get out of the planning stages.
Couldn't agree more. The big question people should be asking is how they find the discipline to dish out hours of study a day, every day
>>2564229
>Implying anyone here posts work
There's a reason mercwip exists
>>2564229
flash me
>>2564121
Oh, would you look at that
>>2564219
shut up tehmeh
your art is bad
>>2564276
>welcome to ic.gif
This is just too good.
>>2565019
trying so hard to fit in
>>2566046
shutup tehmeh's boyfriend
>>2564133
I swear to fucking god whenever anyone makes a thread addressing people to answer what works for them, you always get some stick-up-the-ass dipshit like you preaching "STOP LOOKING FOR SHORTCUTS"
Sometimes a question is just a question, anon, because people are curious what others get up to and what they did rather than probing for your git gud quick secret technique.
I will never understand why tards on here get so butthurt over simple questions.
The thing I wasted most time on was trying to create masterpieces before I was ready.
Most helpful were studies of photographs.
>>2566055
Sounds like you're triggered. Unhappy with how lazy you are and that you can just find the magic shortcut?
You're an idiot. If people were actually curious what other artists "were up to" there are endless blogs and other resources where artists who are actually good, unlike yourself, post their process work, talk about how they work and show things they have studied. Why would you ask other beginners how they get better rather then someone who is actually better. Someone starting out doesn't have enough expearence to objectively tell you why doing something one way is better than another. If you and others on IC are too dumb to find these resources then learning to "git gud" is the least of your problems.
>Sometimes a question is just a question
No it isn't. Asking someone what studies work best is a question designed to find a shortcut. They're fishing to find what things not to draw so they don't "waste any time" when no one can answer that question because you have to spend time doing lots of stuff to figure out what works for you. The fact you're already coming at it from an angle of "what should I not do?" is lazy. You should be doing all kinds of stuff regardless of it "wasting time" or not. I mean honestly, what else is your NEET ass doing thats so important?
I see plenty of question threads where people ask and get answers, only in threads like this where people preach "the best way to learn" or "How do I not waste time?" and other useless nonsense are people posting to stop looking for shortcuts.
Do you even read IC?
>>2566070
Dude, just kill yourself already. I know you contemplate it every day, so just do it.
>>2564276
>The big question people should be asking is how they find the discipline to dish out hours of study a day, every day
Treat it like a job, say your going to work from 9-5 , give yourself one half an hour break and two 15 min breaks. Then spend all your work time doing studies and working on pieces.
Then after "work" don't do anything art related and relax.If you don't have segregated "work" and "play" time your most likely gonna burn out big time.
Some can do the "my entire life is art" thing but I'd wage most can't. The best bet for your average person is to just get in a consistent 30-40hrs a week.
>>2564121
is that tom selleck?
>>2566176
>30-40hrs a week
If you want to make art your job 30-40 hours a week won't be enough. Not to fit in the amount of paying jobs needed to live and time to continually study/personal work to keep improving and getting better jobs. Professional artists work long hours mate, hate to break it to you, like any self employed person. Not many people who run their own businesses work 30 - 40 hour work weeks and stay afloat.
If you're a hobbyist, have at it thats way more time than you need to put in.
>>2566234
You sound like you know what you're talking about. I am curious, please post some of your art.
>>2566234
what a load of BS. 30-40hrs a week of concentrated studying is optimal for learning. any more than that and you're pretty much too tired to learn anything.
I dunno if this will help you or not. Improvement is all about self honesty. I used to ask for a lot of critiques until I realized that a lot of my studies I could critique myself. meaning that the the issues with them were thing I already knew but failed to implement. If you want to get better, first get your stuff to the point where it looks great to you. then ask others for help. be honest with yourself but not brutal there is literally enough information in the art book thread to help you get over whatever you art is suffering from. draw a lot, find your weaknesses. crush them. move on repeat.
>>2566070
There are ways to practice that are more helpful than others.
"You're an idiot"
Tell me something. Is there anything smart at all about being mean to other people? Is there?
When are you going to grow up and realize you don't talk to anybody like that for any reason? Show some respect for the people around you.
I'm especially baffled by the idea that you think you can just insult this anon by calling them an idiot and then think they will just sit there and take the rest of your feedback. You shouldn't be wasting your breath on continuing the conversation.
No they're going to sit there being disrespected and they won't want to have anything more to do with you for being mean to them.
>They earn my respect
I'm taking a leap of faith and guessing this is what you think. If you follow this logic then i'm afraid it doesn't end well for you. By the time they've "earned" your respect they won't respect you for disrespecting them in the first place. You earn their disrespect by disrespecting them.
If anybody was really serious about getting good they would head to a more positive supportive community than this website. The constant doubt and moaning about how hard and long this takes is prevalent everywhere and it does make the process of improvement seem harder than it really is.
Seriously find better greener pastures if you really care about getting good. Don't just stick to /ic/.
>>2566303
fucking this. I know ic is not a hugbox but damn can we at least have some general human respect for each other. we should be happy to have found other people that are also so passionate about art.
>>2566234
dis. shit there's a reason why i made a list of my favorite foods and learned how to make that as fast as possible. time is money
OP here:
>>2566213
it's john goodman.
>>2566234
Half true. If you're working at a studio, expect regular over time. 8 hours a day for studying is actually not bad.
Artistic improvement is a sort of exponential curve (i.e. the more amateur you are, the more hours you need to study.)
Studying is pretty much done for the lulz when you become professional. At that point you already know how to draw, paint and render anything, so there's not much else to learn besides refining your technique and workflow.
>>2566070
.A question is just a question. no strings attached :D
For example I used to do intensive studying (e.g draw the same thing 1000 times) for a long time,
until i realized that if you just take your time to think critically about your subject, you get a lot more out of it.
I strongly discourage any study that involves drawing the same thing more than... 20 times.
There's only so much you can do at one time before it all becomes mindless arm movement.
>>2564121
I improved in the most unexpected way - I've "quit" drawing in December and I haven't even doodled anything until last Sunday. I've had all sorts of problems, but after those inactive months I got better, my drawings suddenly look actually good, forms and values seem to "draw themselves", though back in December I had trouble even drawing squares.
I don't really know what happened, but I'm really glad it did
>>2566234
Many self employed artists work less than full time hours, if your skilled and in demand making 20$+ an hour there is no reason you can't work a regular 40 hr work week.
If your making 50$ a illustration on some shitty card game yeah you'll have to work 80 hrs a week to make a living. That's why you look at the market and develop your skills towards what will put you the most in demand in the highest paying fields.
>>2566430
were you thinking about drawing/observing a lot during that time?
>>2566437
No, in all honesty I didn't think I would ever do anything drawing-related ever again. Haven't watched or read any drawing tutorials either.
how i used to study:
>do highly detailed, time consuming photostudies of everything
>try to make an image, get frustrated & lose confidence
>do more photostudies
how i study now:
1
>start a rough sketch with an illustration in mind, or just doodle until there's a concept
>figure out what i don't understand how to paint
>study those things
>finish image
2
>go outside
>find things that look cool
>draw or paint them
3
>life study
>use the study as the base for a speedpaint
everyone will have their own method of study that suits them best, the key is to continually push your self out of your comfort zone and apply what you learn in doing so. you also aren't locked in to one mode of study so try different things. the way i study now is in response to the weaknesses i developed in how i studied before;
good at copying & rendering, bad at imagemaking.
also stop people need to stop stressing out about the number of hours they paint, 14 continuous hours of mindless grinding is far less useful than 7 hours of deliberate & mindful work. find out how long you can actually focus and base the amount of hours you work around that.
>>2566430
can you post pics of the progress? maybe it was just a jump in confidence, since you must have been pretty sick of drawing to want to quit.
>>2566430
I'm drawing on and off for years, don't bother studying anything deeply then aftee few months break when I start drawing again those stuff come more naturally and look better
>>2566494
breaks do me a lot of good too, but i found that if i just take breaks from individual subjects, like spend the time only mechs/vehicles for a while, when i come back to figures and faces everything seems a to come out a lot better
>>2566505
I think it's some sort of a thing that our brains need time to settle the information, was same for me in uni with most of courses, like if you take calculus for example the basics and logic behind it become more trivial later on, like a tool you have in dispodal
>>2566488
Sorry, but no. I threw all of my old drawings and even art supplies back in December, but I'm certain it's not just a jump in confidence. I remember that my drawings were horribly flat, like uncanny valley tier, but now they look realistic.
I had a lot of trouble drawing figures from life, so i studied from academic drawings and made a lot more progress.
