>be me
>have a friend who's been drawing for longer than you
>friend's art style hasn't changed in the past 6 years you've been friends
>friend won't use references or study from life
>tfw
and it's not like they're awful at art, it's just frustrating since i know they want to become an animator / storyboard artist and they won't be able to do that career if they don't improve or at least try something new. we're almost done with high school and it's so frustrating to see all our other art friends basically leave them in the dust and i don't know what to do ): any thoughts?
(pic unrelated, but it is my art! i post sometimes in the draw threads + alt art threads so hmu if you have any comments + critique)
>>2563594
>they're, they, them
let me guess, she is a tumblr artist who prefers pronouns they/them/theirs?
>>2563597
right on the money, though i'm usually pretty lenient about that stuff so i don't really care so long as it's not that fluff/fluffself bullshit
>>2563594
you have to be 18 to post on 4chan
>>2563599
>almost done with high school
school ends soon and then i'm off to uni
try to expose them to really good examples of the kind of artist they want to be, it might inspire them to get better.
but you guys are still basically high school students. in time if she's actually serious, reality will kick in at a certain point and either she will pick it up or give up. see right now the idea of actually working as a pro is unconceivable, so she's not processing the idea that she has to compete with all these people who draw/board at a really high level. I wouldn't necessarily push it until later because it can piss her off as a friend. it can happen naturally.
>>2563646
OP here! this is really good advice. i've been scared to push this idea that you know like. they're gonna have to compete in the industry and it's not all puppies and rainbows and everyone gets a job because they are a pretty sensitive person. but if i really want them to succeed im going to have to do it at some point.
finding artists that i think will inspire them is good though. i'll work on that. thanks dude
>>2563597
on the artist board really?
>be me
>autist
>don't post because of rude grammar elitists
>>2563594
we learn when we draw or I do, every piece of paper is a story and it never crosses my mind what will anon think of this. It sounds like your friend draws more for fun and has found a style and is comfy.
>oi picasso you need to be using references and and start studying from life
Is your friend trying to shill his art?
Do you have a sample?
>>2563664
at art school (assuming she's going to one since she wants to be a pro), things change a lot. right when you get in there and start doing things that's already one push, and some people will start working really hard and some people who are already not bad will stagnate. I was in the first category for instance and I ended up surpassing some of those people who used to be way better, because I gained more motivation. then as graduation nears there is gradually increasing pressure, which causes some people to just freak out and others to get in gear. sure, support your friend, but don't feel like it's your job as a friend to monitor their artistic progress or anything (unless they specifically ask you). it will happen on its own if it's meant to.
>>2563675
no, it sounds like they want to work in storyboarding, which essentially involves knowing camerawork/storytelling + being decent at drawing. in that case it is very commercial
Some people never change. If they haven't responded to your critique yet, you are not their motivation to improve. They'll probably end up being the 28yo retail worker doing art on the side and still talking about how they haven't given up on their dreams.
They need an epiphany. A teacher or mentor to tell them they suck. Failure to get into a dream program. But some people don't even respond to that. They'll brush it off as not their fault and go on doing the same thing until they're in their fifties realizing that they might be too old to make it.
>>2563683
Is it too late for me as a 24 year old ex-neet whose going back to school? I'm not shit but not amazing either.
>>2563708
You're fine as long as you're studying and analyzing every drawing for what to improve on next.
Why are you going to school? You can learn more than they'd ever teach you on /ic/ for free.
>>2563717
he was a neet, honestly going to school and being in a social environment is a good thing for him. do you think he'd feel better sitting in his room all day on /ic/
>>2563717
For a BFA in illustration, I eventually want to transfer to a school in California if I can get into an animation program and manage to land a scholarship. I know it's not wise, actually pretty stupid considering how the job market is and stuff but it's what I'm good at (only thing I'm good at desu) and know I can work my ass off when I really want something and I really want to animate. It's the one constant desire I've had since I was 18.
/ic/ is really good for learning on your own, yeah but I have a hard time focusing on stuff that isn't character design, like backgrounds, perspective, value, composition etc and did pretty well in the one life drawing class I took right before I dropped out. I need classes and goals to kick my ass into gear because being a depressed NEET for years resulted in stagnation, should be way better than I am right now and really regret dropping out. I figure if I can work my ass off for 2-3 years maybe I can do it? But I can also easily see myself being 30 and in retail or waiting on tables, still stuck in this town. It's kind of a big gamble cause it's not like I'm 20 anymore.
>>2563743
when you say "I really want to animate" what do you mean, exactly? I can give you a bit of advice if you have a better idea of what you are actually aiming to do.
>>2563750
I want to be able to make something on the level of this, not going to lie I'm a big weeb and is one of the reasons why I never gave up on drawing. I want to make the frames and help out with character design too. I know I sound dumb but I really don't know much about the actual process of animating, that's why I'm researching which schools could be decent for now. If you can help that would be really awesome actually, thank you.
>>2563759
cool, I'll write a long post soon. as a disclaimer I'm not currently a pro, I'm still in classes but I'm towards the end point of that training phase. I do know many pros personally though.
>>2563594
I thought the tumblr nose was all a mith.
>>2563826
op here! i've been trying to train myself out of doing the whole 'tumblr nose' thing, i was on there for like 5 years and it turned me into a total bitch so i've recently just kind of stopped using it for anything but art promotion.
pic is something i started drawing today
>>2563759
k sorry, I've been busy. hope you're still watching the thread.
anyway, are you saying you want to be a character animator mostly? that's not a bad idea. but even though you're a weeb, it's quite inadvisable for you to aim for working in japan. if you read more about how animators are treated there and especially foreigners, it's really not worth it imo especially if you don't know japanese.
now, you CAN be a 2D animator in the west, but the jobs are much more scarce and you won't be be doing it for feature (unless you go to the very few studios that do it like cartoon saloon in ireland). plus, you should be aware that in the commercial biz people are mostly looking for puppet style animation like with aftereffects or flash. so that's a compromise you'd have to make. you could go that route, however - and I'd suggest you also learn motion graphics as well. then you could make a decent living in the commercial industry.
but say you want to be a feature animator. then I suggest you give 3D animation a real chance. I know it gets shit on a lot, especially by traditional purists, but if you try it you might actually enjoy it, and you should definitely give the CG side an honest go before you give it up, because there are jobs there. I'm someone who learned 2D first, and I feel like 3D animation feels nearly the same.
now say you try 3D, you don't like it, and you also don't want to do motion graphics or do commercial puppet animation. then the ideal path, which some people take, would to not actually be an animator at all, but a storyboard artist. the reason for this is that animation skill apply to drawing boards in the sense of posing, timing, expression, etc. you would also need a good understanding of film language and the camera. being a story artist is also the straightest path to becoming a director, possibly, which is why it's very attractive to lots of people (calarts kids).
>>2563759
>>2565923
so about schools: I definitely think you should attempt to transfer to a nice school, you'd get connections and learn way faster, but if you don't get enough of a scholarship or lack the funds, please don't do it. You do not need that debt in this job market.
about character design/concept art: The thing is that animation and concept art are both hard to get to a professional level in. To do so is definitely possible, but I would strongly suggest just pushing one skill first... animation. get actually decent doing that first, then decide if you want to expand your skillset (which isn't a bad idea nowadays). but watch out about character design, because fucking everybody wants to do it and the competition is pretty fierce.
Calarts is probably the best path for story. You also learn animation there, but the majority of the focus is story over animation quality - this is reflected in the films. For character animation, you would technically get the best education at one of the online schools. Animation Mentor, Animschool, iAnimate, Animsquad. Check out their reels online and the programs. For other stuff, check out Schoolism and Gnomon. I'm sure you're doing research yourself though and I understand you would rather physically get out of town. just check carefully the quality of the student work and the curriculum. don't get scammed by false promises. there's always the option of studying something like CS and self-teaching at the same time. which could be good if you can stand it, since it'll benefit you if you decide someday if you want to stop doing art professionally. which might be inconceivable to you but lots of people do eventually exit.
lastly, I really would suggest you dig into what's involved in animation, get an idea of what jobs are available, and try stuff out before you commit. the reason I say this is because animation and character design are usually the only two things people understand about the pipeline.
>>2565936
>>2565936
there are other jobs, like FX, rigging, lighting, shading, look development, texturing, modeling, compositing, just to give some examples. you might find out you enjoy something there. and the more technical jobs are usually in higher demand and pay more (because less people want to do them).
good luck dude and don't give up. just stay open to everything - don't be like those kids who all they see is pixar/disney. and absorb all the information you can.
>>2565923
>>2565936
>>2565940
It's all gravy, thanks for taking time out of your studies to give a dork advice- seriously.
I actually day dream about learning japanese and going over there to animate cute girls, doubt I could get a slot like that as a filthy gaijin but MAYBE I can work my way up to it. I know the pay is shit/work culture is crazy but still it would be really cool to actually see what it's like living over there. It's the reason why I went back to school, can't get into an animation program without a bachelor's and can't get a work visa without a legit degree either so yeah. And if I can't land a scholarship I probably will take the STEM route (mom hints at it at least twice a week) and teach myself in my spare time, really don't need that kind of debt in my life. Gave myself an ultimatum, if I can't get a decent scholarship I'll give it up. If I could stay in my town that'd be okay too, actually have an iron tether to my family which is probably why I secretly want to run away to California. Actually really appreciate the list of online schools 'cause googling animation schools brings up some questionable Art Institute-tier results, will write those down.
Storyboarding's really cool too, think that's how I draw best with quick sketches and poses and try out different angles and feels they give. I want to animate 'cause it gives me a serious art boner, don't know if I could manage 3D desu. I'd try it but definitely am a purist at heart, would probably abandon it the first chance I got. Calarts would be my go-to cause also, don't know shit about story telling but know I would like to make my own 2d shorts one day.
If I can even get my foot in the door at a good school I would definitely consider other options like what you mentioned, more pay is always a good thing even if I can't be a creative snowflake. I will stay open to anything I can get, know pixar/disney are hard clubs to get into. Thank you so much, anon. Good vibes to you.
>>2566280
yeah not saying you should never give going over there a shot, however I'd definitely suggest you aim for doing stuff locally first. I took an effects class recently and my teacher had worked in japan for a time despite a black guy.
forgot to mention, SVA apparently does decent with story as well. however it's pretty high cost of living (new york) and I don't think they're very generous. a school that's not quite as good but is pretty generous is CCA which is around san francisco, I remember they gave me a lot of money when I applied. check out academy of art as well, I know they accept easily but the actual program seems pretty good and there was a graduation film this year which you can check out. SJSU (san jose) has a dual animation/illustration program as well which has a decent rep. and as a state school costs less.
well, I think you should def. learn 2D animation first, starting on paper. that's what I did. and eventually when I got over the technical hurdle of 3D, I realized the core of animating felt the same. some people feel differently though. it actually depends on how you animate and your thought process. the people who love the drawing part of animating most tend to not like the adjustment, whereas the people who focus on the idea of making a character act/move have less issues with 3D. but I'd try that. you know, you could get good at both. either way, animating will make you a LOT better at drawing. you should also try starting now in my opinion, all you really need is a clipboard, hole puncher and peg bar. you could start digitally as well but there's value in doing it the old school way first.
I've met people who thought they really wanted to do it and then couldn't actually stomach drawing hundreds of frames. and that's totally fine, the other jobs I listed are still vital creative parts of the production pipeline, even the technical stuff. and keep in mind that in production you're not doing passion projects anyway.
good luck!
>>2566383
I actually wanted to go to SVA before Calarts but the thought of being in NYC with my weak, anxiety-riddled ass makes me want to throw up nevermind the cost of living. It's why I was so hesitant to actually go for an art career, you gotta be smooth and make connections. Shit kind of sucks but I'm going to try hard to be better with others.
>I've met people who thought they really wanted to do it and then couldn't actually stomach drawing hundreds of frames. and that's totally fine, the other jobs I listed are still vital creative parts of the production pipeline, even the technical stuff. and keep in mind that in production you're not doing passion projects anyway.
I think I could manage it, but have no idea how it actually is so I could be totally wrong. I'll study some gifs and go frame by frame to get a feel- got a clipboard and lots of computer paper, the other stuff will have to wait until I get a job. Literally just stepped out of my shell weeks ago with summer school, reached my breaking point and said fuck it, gonna go after what I want instead of wallowing in self loathing/getting shit on by extroverts in awful part time jobs that I can never keep. I think working in technical stuff and getting paid for special effects or whatever would be better than what I was doing. I know I'll get shit on in this kind of world too but at least it's for something I love instead of for nothing. Plus I could always work on my own stuff in my down time. I hope I can make it, good luck to you too bro you're a cool person.
Gonna bump for any other curious anons.
this is such a good, pure thread. good job everybody
>>2567538
thanks! you don't technically NEED a peg bar/hole puncher, it just keeps the registration (frame alignment) accurate, which you don't need for basic exercises anyways. computer paper 8.5x11 or 11x17 is fine, don't waste your money on buying actual animation paper, I've used it and the only real difference is that it's easier to see through. but if you learn to flip properly you don't actually need to be able to see previous frames/onion skinning. you can flip through while drawing and feel the proper position
>>2567773
HONESTLY ! op here i'm so glad this thread became so helpful for others
>>2565923
>>2565936
>>2565940
I also want to be an animator too but fuck man, I really want to do 2D animated features.
I also want to do something more adult like for example, the first Ghost in the Shell movie.
Not that I'm that big of a weeb, I still prefer the bouncy and stretchiness of American animation.
Sucks hearing this but I always had a dream of somehow pulling through and making the shit I want despite all opposition
>>2563594
Never try to help anyone who's not asking for help. Unsolicited advice is a fast and effective way to ruin your friendship and in general come across as a sperg
>>2567844
I think people/studios can still pull off 2d features. Kickstarter and Patreon are really good platforms for 2d animators
>>2567853
Pisses me off when big companies do kickstarters though, like why are they even allowed to do that
>>2567854
Little Witch Academia is great tho
>>2567856
WATCHING NOW
>>2567882
WATCHED
Did enjoy, much thanks
>>2567854
>People pay money to get what they want
>Why are they even allowed to do that
?
>>2567915
Especially anime companies, like
>Wut?
Two self funded failures and the company's going bankrupt, so no wonder they took to crowdfunding. Really, I see no problem with the people paying to get what they want, so...
>>2563594
>they're awful at art
um
>they won't be able to do that career if they don't improve or at least try something
English is not my language.
Im really curious like previous anon: >>2563597
Because as a foreign user this fucked up my understanding so many times when i thought that the person talking about "MANY" people while she was just talking about ONE person.
So please answer so i will understand young americans better: Are you talking about multiple person or one?
If not why you calling her "THEY"?
>>2567930
(op) apologies! i am talking about one person.
in modern english, some people use 'they' to describe a person they don't know the gender of, or someone who doesn't like being referred to as he or she. so that's how i used it!
i got a friend that wants to get better, but cant get over bad habits. it just comes to them unconsciously and when left alone regress to it natually. and though they do way better when i drill sargent their ass, i can get annoying and cant be there all the time
>>2567951
>in modern english, some people use 'they' to describe a person they don't know the gender of
I don't get it.
They dont want to confuse people for letting others know that that person wiht man look is "HE" but....they completely OKAY with confusing people letting them know that there are SEVERAL people and not just ONE?
This is the most retarded thing i have ever met on the english side of the internet.
Im not joking - i had 2 situations when i thought we were talking about several people.
This what happens when you allow retarded teenagers write society rules.
>so that's how i used it!
you shouldn't tho.
Because confusing people with he/she is not as bad with fucking they/them.
>>2568151
Okay, we get it, you're shit at English and now want to push the blame onto someone else, or possibly English in general. Can you take your tantrum to a board that gives a fuck, please.
>>2568151
You're just bad at English. There's nothing wrong with They/Them for the singular.
>>2567844
hey man I mean you just have to adapt to the industry as it changes, that's the reality. you never know if it will change again down the line and if we will see a lot of 2D features again. I mean like I said it's not like they don't exist, it's just in a very limited capacity - cartoon saloon and whatever studio is making that Klaus film in canada. but limited enough that I really wouldn't suggest trying to just be a 2D animator, unless like I said you also learned puppet animation and some motion graphics.
and like I told the other guy, try to keep an open mind and explore different paths a bit as well.
>>2568151
what are you so mad about? nobody gets confused about "they" referring to one person, it's been common usage even BEFORE gender issues became a thing.
>>2563594
I have the same problem with my sister, she's 18, but it's impossible to differentiate her work from a beginner/doodler
she has no sense of color, light, anatomy, gesture or expression, all she does is draw two dimensional chibi characters
she's part of a facebook-tumblr-anime-cult, full of people that can't draw for shit, but think they can give constructive criticism based on years of drawing the same animu-shit
worst of all is how these people react to real critique, it's all about "MUH STYLE" and some sort of false individualism in their "work"
never ever would one of them think about studying real-life or even try to "git gud"
that's why I ultimately decided to let her be, I unfollowed her various art-accounts, I just don't want to see her work anymore
she sometimes sends me new stuff, but I refuse to critique her, because that would only piss her off and won't change anything
so, my honest advice
>leave her be
if she doesn't want to git gud, she won't
it's time for your friend to leave tumblr and grow the fuck up or stick with her "style" until eternity
>>2568151
yгoмoниcь, eблaн бeзгpaмoтный
