I can't find anything on this guy from his pre-Disney days.
Did he seriously come straight out of a public liberal arts college, move to California, and then start animating for Disney after working as a tour guide for them for a little bit? He went from an internship to a supervising animator in a little over 5 years. What was in that letter he got from Frank Thomas, the willpower and skill of a thousand old men? A wish granting incantation?
This man is the hero we all need. I wish there was more information on him. What an inspiration.
>>2539915
Post his work. I don't know why he's an inspiration.
>>2539919
Pocahontas, Lilo & Stitch, Chicken Little, Bolt, Tangled, and Zootopia to name his most popular stuff.
I just mainly want to know what the fuck was the quality of his work that he was able to go straight from college to Disney.
>>2540024
I had an animation teacher who got picked up during their 90's Renaissance. He said during the 90's, it wasn't as hard to be an artist/animator and get picked up by Disney because they were aggressively looking for people. Remember it was still recent that Don Bluth took their remaining good artists and ran and they had to start training all new people and re-assigning department heads. They almost couldn't find ENOUGH 2D animators just to meet the requirements they needed to pull off stuff like Atlantis. A shit ton of fucking art went into a project like that. Then you have to take into account Dreamworks and Warner Brothers as 2D competitors, Pixar was starting up and looking to re-train 2D artists into CG. The aspiration to work in animation was not nearly as big as it is now.
But now, everyone and their grandmother wants to work in animation. The application process is so goddamn competitive, you have hundreds of aspiring artists graduating every single year who want to work in animation. And since feature film has shifted to CG, 2D animators must resort to being storyboard artists or character designers, which means those positions are filled to the fucking brim with applications.
Basically, it's about fifty times more competitive now to get into Disney than it was in the 90's, which is saying something because it was still a big place to be working at. He didn't do anything special besides being at the right place, right time. Like Pete Doctor.
>>2540277
What kind of skills do you need to get into Disney now?
>>2540290
Not that guy but specific skills obviously depends on what exactly you're applying for. Since we're in /ic/ I'm guessing you're interested in anything ranging from visdev/story boarding (which is what I'm interested in) to CG.
If someone could give a better, more in-depth answer I'd love to hear it. Frankly, I'm pretty young and don't know a lot about the situation. As far as I can tell, the only way for someone like me to get into visual development/story boarding is to come on board as an intern, work hard and if I'm lucky go full-time as an animator (which only involves 3D for now and the foreseeable future, which I presently don't care for but I can see myself doing), and then through experience move to an animation supervisor position, and then through some even more experience and connections move to a story supervisor position. And even that path would involve me working extremely hard and getting extremely lucky.
Look at it this way, Byron Howard moved to Florida as soon as he finished his education at a public college, started working as a tour-guide at Disney MGM Studios, saw the animators face to face every day (probably made a few connections which helped him get his foot in the door), made multiple portfolio submissions over the course of multiple years, and only then did he get an internship. This guy specifically dedicated years of his life just to get an internship at Disney, which according to the other guy, was apparently scarfing up animators left and right at the time. It's only harder now.
If nothing else, working at Disney requires tenacity, luck, a certain degree of mastery, and a love for what you do so strong you're willing to uproot your life multiple times to accomplish it.
>>2540290
Story skills (Lots of coherent storyboard sequences with good writing)
Observational/life drawing skills
Good grasp on perspective and foreshortening
Good grasp on appeal in cartooning
Basically, just look at all the story art for one of their films, that's the quality level they want. Plus, you have to be able to write well/have good ideas and can execute them visually.
>>2540413
>life drawing skills
Is this still as important of a thing even though they do entirely CG animations now? Even their website says "drawings from life are helpful but not required."
>>2540421
It's important if you want to be a story/viz dev artist. If you're going into things like CG animation, lighting, texturing etc, then no. But anything 2D drawing, yes.
Speaking of which, what's the most "stable" job at Disney? I feel like you have to walk through hell to get on board, but I've heard rumors that at any moment you could get laid off because they want something fresh and have no shortage of talent.
How do these guys that have been on since the 80's do it?
>>2540426
By being unexpendable.
>>2540346
wow, that style has some Chris Sanders influence in it. Nice.
>>2540426
>How do these guys that have been on since the 80's do it?
Who are you talking about exactly? Because they fired their entire 2D animation crew. I think only a couple golden stars, like Eric Goldberg, might be left. Unless I'm mistaken, most of the people working at Disney have only been there 15 or less years.
>>2540438
I was exaggerating a bit. Even still, 15 years is a long time to be working at a place.
>>2540426
Anything non art related. Did you know Disney hires intelligence analysts?
>>2540443
It is, but 15 years ago was 2001. Except for a rare few, there isn't that many people from their 90's era left over. So in that regard, it feels like their Renaissance crew has long since disbanded. Most of the artists we talk about now only really spiked around Tangled around 5 years ago. Nobody was really talking about the brilliant concept art for Meet the Robinsons or Chicken Little's storyboards.
>>2540459
Lilo and Stitch was good
>>2540346
If you're looking to go into storyboarding, having an eye for cinematography will help. Watch a lot of movies and pay attention to how they're shot and why those shots work.
Zootopia was fucking cute. Hope this guy gets to direct more disney features in the future.
>>2540277
> it wasn't as hard to be an artist/animator and get picked up by Disney because they were aggressively looking for people
This was true for pretty much every field a couple decades ago, IC doesn't want to hear it but art in general has become over saturated, no amount of memes that you just need to be really good will change that.
Listen to Feng Zhu, Helgonson art , Chris Oatly, Craig Mullens they will say this shit is over saturated by a certain portion of IC doesn't want to hear it.
>>2544681
New to /ic/. Do you have any quotes from these guys about job market saturation? Surely they're not straight up telling people to not go into any form of art field.
>>2544717
>Surely they're not straight up telling people to not go into any form of art field.
No, they're just saying it isn't gonna be a walk on the beach and unless you're very serious about it you're probably not going to get anywhere.
>>2540277
3D isn't animation.
>>2544717
Basically what >>2544722 said
I'm not gonna directly quote all of them because it would be a pain in the ass to find all the direct quotes, but what Henson says sums it up really nicely.
>"From what I can tell, concept-artists, illustrators, visual-development-artists etc. are not in demand. The market is quite over-saturated with skill and talent, and there are not enough jobs to answer to the amount of applicants. Now, more than ever, you need to be very skilled at what you do to ensure a job, or very well connected. You need to be persistent, patient, and stubborn to succeed imo. "
I've said the same stuff before here and had people blatantly deny shit is over saturated.
That said if your dream is to be a concept artist and you love doing it than pursue it.In the same interview he says he worked 8-13 hours a day too something I've seen people hear warn against.
>>2544782
I've never seen anyone deny shit is over saturated. I've only had people tell me the industry is insanely competitive.
>>2544681
Can we think of a creative niche that isn't over saturated? Does such a thing exist? Jobs at the periphery of art?
>>2540612
Any recommendations for movies with stellar cinematography that might be worth studying?
>>2545171
>Can we think of a creative niche that isn't over saturated? Does such a thing exist? Jobs at the periphery of art?
something like 2d/3d character rigging/puppet creation isn't over saturated but these things don't feel like art to me. Basically most technical "unfun" art jobs probably have very little competition.
My point was though not to long ago animation jobs were definitely not saturated, read the animators survival kit where he writes that at one point they were hiring anyone who could barely hold a pencil.
I don't think its a matter of less jobs really, I think it's mostly these schools who keep pumping out art students.In combination with cheap overseas workers+ freelancing over the internet becoming super popular.
For the moment I don't think it's going to get better, basically I think all these third world countries producing slave wage artists are going to have to rise in standards of living and wages, and create there own industries before we see things get better for the average artist.
>>2544722
This isn't advise, if it is you're very naive about how employment works in general. It's the reality of any competitive job, in any field. Duh. This shouldn't be news to anyone.
>>2544782
The art fields are saturated with people.....mid to low level people. Once you get beyond a certain skill level there just aren't as many people sucking up the jobs. You should always be pushing to get to the top, that's how you're going to have job security. If you think being Paizo artist #1587 is going to be stable you're a moron.
>>2545189
Going into a specific aspect of art just because you think it's not saturated is dumb. especially since you don't have any clue what that kind of job is actually like or how many people are trying to get it. You better like what you're doing for work otherwise good luck putting in the thousands of hours to get good enough at it to get consistent work and beat out everyone else doing it. Do what you love, become really good at it and you'll find work. Example: Every illustrator and concept artists with 10+ year careers, and there are many.
>>2545189
I was thinking like you for a long time, but this is how I see things now:
Actually it's all saturated. The problem is SOMETIMES you guys want to join a big studio that pays +70k/y plus your health benefits, free snacks, free lunch, flexible hours, video games and shit on the studio, happy hour and parties on the studio garden and an university like place.
You guys just don't realise that of fucking course it's hard to get those jobs. Looking at this way, It's really hard to understand how Oatley, Blaise, Brunet, Silver and all those guys quit from studios, but it's not impossible, the other way makes sense but whatever.
The other thing is that you guys think you should achieve the big mastery art godlike level before even applying on the local studio, and reality is, studios needs people that can get shit done.
Seriously guys, those guys trending on artstation and such... there's a reason that the vast majority of these guys are freelancing when you click on their profiles, because in the tip of the pencil they make much more working from home, and those guys are rare, busy with big projects and they are fucking awesome, and professional - the kind of thing must people don't realise - being a pro, making money, delivering on time, those are skills besides your artistic skill. So they are the kind of guy that you'll rarely see working by your side. The guy you will see on your place is the hard working fuck that almost brings work home, because there's so much he want to learn and to deliver to the project.
Guys, drink reality. Visit studios and places that are not working on triple As. Open your fucking game app store. See the number of downloads. Sometimes I feel you guys are so far from reality.
Also, I'm not saying by anyway you should settle. You deserve and want to be the highlighted guy. Just... just understand what I said.
And I agree, this cheap commission thing is fucking the world.
>tfw want to apply for an internship at Disney after I get my associate's
>but I'm scared of Californian earthquakes and gangs
people say it's over saturated.
But recruiters at the studios always say "It's so hard to find someone who is truly good"
Good artists who know how to hold a decent conversation, who are professional, and love to work with others will always find work.
>>2545272
I agree with what you said pretty much, but one thing I'd like to point out is even for the shitty low paying jobs there is a lot of competition as well.
Look at traditional game company's, Pazio, fantasy flight games ect; still have a lot of competition but the pay is less than minimum wage.usually.
>>2546734
>But recruiters at the studios always say "It's so hard to find someone who is truly good"
What does "truly good" mean, my first instinct is that there standards are honestly just really high. and/or they want people to hire that require 0 training.
>Good artists who know how to hold a decent conversation, who are professional, and love to work with others will always find work.
Again define "good" , the way I see it a lot of people say good and what they really mean is basically a master level artist, expecting artists who are just entering the field to have the work of someone with 15 years experience
The thing is you can't have someone who is alll there studies art 13 hours a day .and is sociable and normal in every other way. No normal person is gonna put that much work and passion into art and be alike a random guy on the street in every other way.
>>2546782
It's pretty douchey of me to say 'good' and not state what that even means, so forgive me. The good news is you don't have to study art 13 hours a day.
I've said this core idea in so many other threads tonight but it bears repeating.
The purposeful trumps the pretty.
People think that rendering, complexity of drawing, perfect anatomy, engineer-level perspective means you're good. As supremely important it is to have that knowledge it doesn't amount up to anything if you can't tell a story, communicate ideas, and design solutions.
There's a story where Pixar hired a brilliant landscape artist to develop environments for a movie. Each time that guy put up work, John Lasseter rejected it. This got frequent enough that the guy asked John "Whats wrong with my work?" John replied "It's beautiful work, but we're storytellers here. If you can make less beautiful work but tell stories better, then you'll have an easier time"
John then assigned him to do 1000 comp studies from Ben-Hur to kick him out of the habit of doing something 'pretty' to doing stuff that's 'purposeful' (which ends up being pretty anyway).
I saw people with portfolios of the greatest and painstaking rendering I have ever seen, and the most work they can muster up for their careers is a couple commissions. Then I see another guy with simplistic style and with off perspective, but their work is dripping with love for building worlds and telling stories. Those guys tend to have an easier time finding work.
So when studios say "we're looking for good people" they're really saying: "We want someone who can tell stories, build worlds, and entertain people with art--but can arrive at work fully clothed and not be schizophrenic. They don't have to know everything and be perfect. But they have to have ideas and have purpose."
>>2545385
Literally memes, anon. Just do it.
>>2546802
Ah I see what your saying, I definitely agree that someone who has a vision and story telling chops will have a much easier time getting work.
>>2546802
How do I become that person?
>>2545177
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2839091 I don't agree with every single one of these but it's a good start. I also like Hitchcock and Kubrick.
>>2546822
Not that guy, but, lose your inhibitions and get to the point where you can draw whatever you want from imagination. You really just need to be creative and have fun being creative. I don't think you can ever learn how to be creative, but you can help foster it and make it easier for you to draw what's in your mind.
Personally I grew up in an environment where I was discouraged from being creative or expressing myself. Now I'm just playing catch up with my art skills while simultaneously trying to get comfortable with drawing new ideas and worlds. It's not easy, but I think it's doable.
FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS
>>2547275
Isn't that Drawing from life book, the one from the disney vet, what this is about.
>>2540449
I'm aware. My mother was one of their former market researchers.
>>2547710
No? Maybe. That picture specifically is of the shirt that the Zootopia Animation crew received after completing the film.
>>2546822
I was actually just listening to Feng Zhu discuss this very subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsFJeFru1pM
