how many more formulaic,shallow, minimalistic disney cartoons do we have to endure before people start realizing that nothing special comes from calarts?
fuck off, hipster. Disney artists are skilled as fuck.
>>2504759
Cory Loftis drew that. He went to Laguna College of Art and Design for two semesters before dropping out.
>>2504791
lol
>>2504791
So?
>how many more formulaic,shallow, minimalistic disney cartoons do we have to endure
You were taking a stab at Disney in general putting out low quality work and I corrected your dumb ass. I don't give a shit about who did or didn't go to calarts, but Disney hires nothing but excellent artists, including those who studied at Calarts, whoever they may be.
>>2504836
I'm not the OP. I am providing you with mere information. You should seek anger therapy, it would benefit you.
>>2504845
I'm not angry in the slightest. I merely informed you that you provided me with useless information that had nothing to do with the point I made. Maybe you should try to stop projecting your own emotional state onto random strangers, it would benefit you.
>>2504849
Ok then weirdo, whatever you say.
>>2504836
I took a stab at calarts graduates who go on to make cookie cutter disney or CN shows. you can be a great artist and still have very weak direction or story. nothing about the picture you posted interests me. it's well rendered, but it just seems like dogs playing poker. ie simple anthropomorphism. most successful people i see that come from calarts just seem like disney loving furries that refuse to grow up and tackle more real indepth storylines that challenge the genre of childrens programming. they fit right into the same mold that the class before them fell into, idolizing early disney animators as if they were the founding fathers who could do no wrong
CalArts' character animation program is literally sponsored by Disney.
It'll always be the top animation school as long as Disney exists.
>>2504905
I don't like Disney as a company
>>2504871
Dude that's what high art is for. Entertainment art by definition can't pursue revolutionary ideas. I mean It can pursue those ideas but not until high art inspires them. At best we can hope that entertainment artist are ballsy enough to try to sneak in some of those ideas into the entertainment art.
>>2504871
That concept piece tells a story for a scene that was being molded while it was being made. It's literally a concept piece for a movie. It's doing exactly what it's suppose to.
Quit being a contrarian just because you know you'll never be half that good.
half of this year's graduate films had sjw undertones.
>>2504985
sjw culture is mainstream culture.
>>2504749
It's not going to end in the foreseeable future. It's probably going to get worse. We have a broken generation of immature losers who lap this shit up, and it's also cheap to produce.
The lowest common denominator just keeps getting lower, and rather than try different things for different audiences, they seem to just target the same group of losers.
>>2504972
>Dude that's what high art is for.
Except high art doesn't really exist anymore, nor was it ever made to tell a story that goes beyond a single piece of art. Modern and contemporary art also have a very esoteric, subjective and political component to it that primarily makes it appeal to quasi-intellectual boobs.
>Entertainment art by definition can't pursue revolutionary ideas
Revolutionary might be pushing it, but there's nothing standing in the way of telling a good story with a hint of depth. We have movies, cable shows and even the occasional anime that try to go into uncharted territory. They don't alway succeed, but at least we're left with something that can be enjoyed on more than an entirely superficial level.
I love animation as a medium and believe it has endless potential, but it's usually wasted on nonsense. That being said, I want to bring up anime, because in spite of the dire circumstances anime currently finds itself in, I believe the japs have produced some of the most interesting and experimental pieces of animation of the past 30 years, particularly back in the late 80s and the 90s. They weren't always successful or entertaining, but at least they tried new things, which is all I really ask for.
Some of the most obvious examples would Akira, Ghost in the Shell and Jin-Roh. But you also have experimental anthology films like Robot Carnival, Neo-Tokyo and Memories. I also think most people would agree that Studio Ghibli is far more willing to take creative risks and experiment with animation than Disney.
>>2505066
Well, in west animation have different connotations than in japan where it is equal type of visual communication. Western mindset is still in "it's for kids" . Untill that changes, mainstream animation willbe stuck being tool for Disney to make money.
Regarding high art, I just couldn't find a better term for "elite" art that is being created in art universities. Art that most people find weird or un-aesthetical but it is freed from corporate greed of making money so between stupid shitty pretentious art, there are some genuinely interesting pieces that can inspire other artist who enjoy or are doing something more commercial with mainstream audience.
Anyways indie/alt animation (or basicaly any industry) is where revolutions grow. Definitely not in disney
>>2504871
Could you try and be less of a 4Chan creative board faggot in future. You're almost channeling 10% of /lit/'s complete retardation when it comes to writing. We don't need that shit on /ic/.
Thanks bruv.
>>2505077
>Western mindset is still in "it's for kids" .
This is only partially true. I believe a large portion of the cartoon audience over the past 15 years have been adults. It started out with stoners, but recently you have all kinds of SJWs, mandchildren and dorks watching cartoons, and I believe the theme has shifted to a point where the studios now keep both audiences in mind. They're still mostly children's shows, but they're also designed to appeal to a certain type of adults. That being said, they still heavily rely on shitty comedy and superficial characters. You also have a handful of anime ripoffs.
There have also been some attempts at making cartoons for a more mainstream audience, primarily by Ralph Bakshi, and you have movies like Watership Down, Plague Dogs, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Heavy Metal and Cool World. You also have animated shows like The Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, Boondocks, Beavis and Butthead and similar stuff, but once again, they're more or less animated sitcoms.
>>2505165
The same adults who watch kids cartoons are the same who go opening night to marvel movies. They're simple and don't require any real thought to enjoy. For intellectuals, Disney is torture
>>2505084
I'm not your bruv cuz
>>2504749
formulaic shows are the fault of executives, not fucking calarts students. its not like they sit around trying to plan how to ruin the industry in their classes. each decade has trends and minimalist shit is in, i guess. remember, animation is a fucking business.
Not all of these shows come from calarts alum anyway.
>>2504871
This is so fucking autistic stop trying to look cool. you sound like a fucking idiot.
The only reason people hate on CalArts is because they were taught to do things traditionally, whereas CalArts tries to make a statement for being the opposite taking in the outsiders.
>>2505455
Are you completely retarded? CalArt is about as generic as it gets.
>>2505283
no, how about you grow up and learn to be an adult anon?
I'm from good ol' blighty, would I be able to enroll in CalArts? I'm assuming I'd be paying way more than US students.
>>2505493
You can ask for scholarship. My friend applied and they gave him 10% scholarship so he told them "sorry can't attend because I don't have that much money. I am able to pay only for 50% of school fees" so tin the end they gave him 40% discount lol. Just because he asked. (He is from eastern yurop)
>>2505461
If this is in reply to my "stop being autistic" comment, what I meant was
"stop trying to sound like an 'intellectual' over concept art for a children's movie because if anything it makes you look like a try hard."
And I'm going to tell you from knowing these guys, a lot of them don't really care about Disney and are straight up sick of it. Most of them do want to tackle adult themes in animation, but it's just a matter of business and what sells.
There's not a lot of studios out there that concentrate on that stuff, and the students are taking what they can get. You're asking too much of the industry in its current state.
The one that needs to grow up is you because you don't realize how many factors play into the lack of adult animated content, you emotionally stunted, try hard, child.
>>2505527
>40%
$25,000~ is more for an eastern european than $40,000~ is for an american due to currency exchange rates I'm pretty sure.
>>2505531
See instead of explaining your point clearly and maturely the first time, you resorted to childish name calling
>>2506082
Are you new here? Because childish name calling is of the norm.
>>2505626
It's getting a bit weird over here, UK students can end up with double the amount of debt as US students at £44k, which is about $65k. Though I keep hearing people in the US with debts of $100k+?
>>2505531
>salt
>makes almost everything better
>brings out the best flavors
>makes chocolate and caramel sweeter
Never understood that meme.
>>2505455
You can't teach or encourage being an outsider. It's like Edison coming up to you and saying " hey invent the light bulb"
The art school I'm going to prides itself in teaching concept and how to basically say yes to every little fucking thought that comes into your head, which leads to most students shitting on a canvas, getting an A for it, and never learning any practical techniques or skills for creating art.
>>2506684
You can always hire people with skills to realize your idea. It' very easy to dismiss cool idea because you are limited by what you are (in)capable of.
>>2506856
What's the point of school at all if you can always hire someone else to do it
>>2507073
As an architect you still need to know basics of physics to create your design, but you don't need to know how much cement certain bricks need to hold together. If all you have is craft, all you ever be is helping ohers to realize their vision. If that's what you want then good.
>>2504749
>how many more formulaic,shallow, minimalistic disney cartoons do we have to endure before people start realizing that nothing special comes from calarts?
All of them if Disney and CN are to believed.
>>2504859
>a lot of my (((((coworkers))))) went to calarts
>you sound jealous
Hmmm
>>2507144
The problem is that there is almost no craft taught at my school. Also I'm dropping out this semester
>>2504749
Post work
>>2507787
>>2507773
Because craft can be self taught. You do that at home. At school you apply your craft to projects that should be (in theory) scrutinized. That's why you go to school, to get crits from non plebian people. When you do your art only at home without confronting it with outside world you will progress very slowly. You can substitute with internet but only to a certain degree.
>>2504749
Special people that came from CalArts
>J.G. Quintel
>Brad Bird
>Tim Burton
>Lauren Faust
>Alex Hirsch
>Glen Keane (How the fuck can you say Disney cartoons "have to be endured"?)
>John Lasseter
>Henry Selick
>Paul Tibbitt
>Pendleton Ward
>>2508282
These were people off the top of my head. Im sure if i googled there would be more.
Shiiiiiiieeeeet ~ I wish i was talented enough to get into CalArts's Character Animation Program.
>>2508282
In my opinion, Glen Keane is they only one on this list who pushed the boundaries of 2d animation. And I'll give credit to John Lasseter for bringing 3d animation to life and really perfecting it right out of the gate. but the rest are all examples of my original point. Most western animation today does little to separate itself from all the other cartoons on tv
>>2507866
you and I have a pretty different idea on the purpose of higher education. If you majored in engineering or astronomy they would not just leave you to figure out the science and psychics on your own. The same goes for art. There is a science to drawing and sculpting and digital design, a science that most students don't know going into school. I was talking to my painting teacher about how all of the students in the class were just horrible at the basics of drawing and drafting, like 5th grade level art. And my teacher told me that it wasn't his job to teach them how to draw, they should know that already. Though I halfway agree with him, I still believe that if every art teacher had that same attitude than no student would ever learn the basics. plus its a skill that you continue to perfect. I still need to get better at drawing fabric, landscapes, and all types of stuff, and any time I ask a teacher to help me, they would just shrug me off and basically tell me to figure it out myself. I don't know about you but I love to tell less experienced artists new tricks or techniques that I think they may not know yet. It makes me happy to see people learn
>>2508387
Must suck to get a high degree and be very knowledgeable and skilled only to sit teaching 26 year old toddlers how to fingerpaint. There is a place for higher levels of teaching where rudimentary students are shunned
>>2508387
I do agree with you, but the difference between science and art is that, when you learn science all the things you learn are not dependent on you or your experience or view on world. 1+1 is always going to be 2 whether you like it or not.
When it comes to art, part of what shapes the way you express yourself is how you struggle during the process of learning and looking for answers which can differ person to person. All great artist who know anatomy will never draw same figure just like another artist. It can be similar but never the same.
Obviously teachers telling you to "learn it yourself" are stupid, because they should at least you give directions where you can learn it. But most competent programs should give you some classes for that (we had, figure drawing, material drawing, plein air drawing all that shit).
Regarding helping fellow student, I also love to do that but I love to do that because we helped each other without interference of teacher. Because when friend advise you there is no pressure to take the advice. When teacher does that, some people might be too influenced by his status as teacher and some teacher actually hate that
>>2504749
I followed around 12 cal arts students and one by one in followed them due to their shit posting, one girl posted about how only Chinese people would be allowed to draw Chinese people and use Chinese culture in their designs including using Chinese language symbols, the rest have stupid shit like he/she pronouns they pronouns
>>2508387
That's why the best art school is your local library. Fuck college in the ass.
>>2504749
When college becomes free.
>>2509066
I agree with your statement about college
>>2509043
>This post
>>2504791
This seems to be the norm. Most of the professional artists Ive talked with online and asked about their art history admitted that they dropped out of art school when they felt that they learned enough and didn't want to pay any more money.
>>2509551
Maybe elaborate? Do you disagree or agree? My auto correct fucked up my post a little but you get my point from it, they are tumblr kids who believe the cultural appropriation myth
>>2506383
Not to detract from your point but you mean English students, Scottish students student debt is only for living expenditures.
>>2506383
the vast majority of art schools here in the US are overpriced to hell. the range i've seen in applying is 30k a year to 50k a year. some of them (AI schools and Full Sail) aren't even accredited and they STILL charge an arm and a leg. its ridiculous really. you end up paying for a name on your diploma and the connections you leave with.
A friend of mine goes to USCLA and sent me this.
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/usc-cancels-legends-game-industry-panel-be-right-side-history
Seems like a lot of formerly respected schools have just gone all out to pander to millennials.
>>2505455
"Outsiders", with 200k tuition, yeah, okay.
>>2510495
How is this real? It "didn't reflect the diversity of the games industry at large"? The industry is made up almost entirely of men until you start branching out to things like mobile games.
>>2510495
Are they legit retarded? You can't change history into being more diverse. Or are they suggesting there are droves of neglected game designers that are black lesbian transwomen in wheelchairs?
>>2504749
Applying for the MFA in Film Directing and haven't really heard many opinions on it. Anyone here doing it/know much about what it's like?
>>2510495
>she said
I say off with her head
>>2504859
you talk like most white girls i know.
>>2506404
the taste of salt (alone) == the taste of salt flavored food =/= the taste of food with just the right amount of salt
>>2510495
see I'm right, even the most prestigious colleges are run by retards. dont waste your money
>>2504871
bait or not, this is embarrassing.
>>2504985
define "sfw" undertones
>>2508371
>Tim Burton and Brad Bird make cartoons for little kiddies
They are successful in live action for a reason
>>2509778
Yes this is a fair point, England sucks balls compared to Scotland on this front.
>>2510495
>cancels event to promote inclusiveness
>panelists genders deemed to be wrong
>all in order to be on the right side of history
Holy fuck. In the course of history, sjws will go down right in between the nazis and the hippies.
>>2511752
>sjws will go down right in between the nazis and the hippies.
preach it boy
>>2510495
This is satire right?
Anyone who pays $45,000 a year for cabarets is a fucking moron
Calarts*
>>2510832
Probably stuff like black characters, lgbt characters and other remotely sensitive topics that makes little anon uncomfortable.
>>2514298
cabarets would certainly be a better investment
>>2514888
>Having Black characters in a cartoon equals sjw overtones
>>2515355
Not my opinion, just what I think anon might mean.
ITT: butthurt amateurs who cant afford/get into CalArts and failed to git gud on their own
>>2504859
too bad you're the shit-tier one at whatever community college you're teaching at.
>>2518525
and what category do you fall in
>>2508387
Isnt that like 99 percent anyways when it comes to drawing.. i mean you will hardly come across something where you do not need to apply some sort of basic, weither it be anathomy, drapery, landscapes etc. All the potential fantasy/ sci-fi/ whatever stuff is going to build upon that and the better you apply it, the better is it going to look.
I have pretty much done nothing else since
>>2520046
KEK.
>>2518525
was waiting for this post
Does anyone here go to calarts?
>>2507794
Cute pony
>>2523656
Yeah, me. Starting my 3rd year.
Don't know why I bother even replying in some of these threads sometimes because they're usually just chock full AAA grade fucking idiots that don't know what they're talking about.
>>2505222
disney is fun. i understand a desire for more complex/"mature" stories but if your brand of intellectualism doesn't understand nor enjoy fun i feel like you're instead looking for something to make you feel smart instead of it actually being intelligently made
>>2504871
if you are actually complaining about the current state of animation by saying that the storytelling or direction is subpar then i fear you are not well versed in the intricacies of visual storytelling/lack appreciation for such things in which case i feel you are pursuing the incorrect media (animation) for something you are probably more likely to find in say books
>>2524714
post your work
>>2504871
And yet, those degenerate furries are employed by the biggest entertainment company in the whole fucking world, and get paid a pretty penny to draw degenerate furry stuff that makes millions at the box office, while you're here flaunting your shit-stained PhD in 2003 4chan memes. But hey, at least you're a true gentleman and a scholar *insert fedora maymay here*
>>2524980
why would i ever post my work on /ic/ let alone 4chan.
not even avoiding it because im scared or something. its a weak reply and i dont want my classmates to know im engaging with these stupid threads because these are pretty embarrassing and fucking stupid.
if you're looking for proof, heres a pic from the producers show. Randos cant really attend unless theyre already a part of industry or a student/family member of a student.
>>2525098
Post your debt
>>2524714
What's your schedule?
>>2525098
Senpai, I mean, I believe it; that shit still looks more autistic than my 5yo nephew.
>>2525098
cool, i've been to SVA but everyone was way to nice, i feel like calars has more competition or rivalry, wich personally makes me work harder.
how do you work with fellow students?
>>2525983
Theres a bit of competitiveness, but everyone is extremely supportive of each other's successes and accomplishments. There's some pretty nice camaraderie within the department.
Sometimes it does get a little antsy during portfolio day and the end of the year when we're trying out hardest to impress industry guys. I feel like not a lot of people really like to express that though, since theres a code of "not burning bridges" amongst us, both in and outside of school. Nobody is really the kind of person to sabotage others though. We all just want to see each other do well.
>>2526070
Like I said,I'm a little nervous outing myself on here since it's 4chan and I don't want classmates knowing I'm engaging in these petty threads, but what I can say is just try even if you don't think you'll get accepted. I felt the same way, and the majority of my classmates felt the same way as well, but you'll never know unless you try. There are plenty of people that get in straight out of high school and plenty that get in after trying multiple times.
Go to portfolio day, and just try to git gud. Get as good as you can. What they look for is strong figure drawing, storytelling and your willingness to experiment. Despite what people say on the internet these days, they really don't want the cookie cutter "calarts style" folk. Believe it or not, the faculty really picks up on that stuff easily and will chastise you for it to your face for not being risky enough with your work.
Good luck, though.
>>2525983
I took the precollege thing at CalArts (CSSSA, not technically affiliated but they share many similarities) and went to college at SVA. The environments are very alike; lots of people working hard to make a name for themselves, but of course recognizing other students' talents and helping them grow stronger. I'd actually say CalArts is MORE chummy since it's in the middle of nowhere and you spend more time with each other. And there are plenty of people at SVA just as good as those at CalArts who are going to push you to do your best (though the latter does have the better education).
No matter where you go, the most important thing is to make friends! Knowing industry people is good, but if they don't give you an opportunity, it's going to be your friends who get you in the door.
>>2526645
Since you're worried about outing yourself, could you contact me instead, if that's fine? My tumblr is:
>http://tooosssaway.tumblr.com
I just get really nervous thinking about my potential portfolio, especially since a lot of the people straight out of highschool you mentioned could draw circles around me. If you're still nervous, thanks for taking the time to reply and for the advice! I'll try to take it to heart.
>>2526738
Yeah, no problem.
Really, just show you can be versatile in a number of areas like design, story, etc and that you have the fundamentals pat down, but still willing to change things up a bit and fuck around, especially with the sketchbook portion.
There's really no need to be afraid of the high school kids because they're in small numbers and a large number of students have already had schooling of some sort.
