https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rI6q6bv7do
>If you're learning art self-directed and drawing the same thing over and over to practice, you're shit. Come join our school
Is it a meme? The before-and-after is astounding. What exactly is the "one weird tip" that self-directed learners aren't understanding?
>>2464148
They unlock your spark
Why do you fags always bash on him for advertising in his free lessons (they're more like pep talks / bits of useful info)
And he never says anything like, "you'll never be good unless you come to my school."
good critique is the one thing that separates it.
>>2464148
Feng rocks, just watching him spit out concepts like that, No photo-bashing either is awesome.
I believe he means just being able to draw in 3D and break down subjects to their basic shapes so they can be built up again.
>>2464148
>art school's shilling channel contains shilling
jee, anon, it's quite the conundrum
Cool video. Seems like the biggest difference comes from grasping mechanical design rooted in reality and complex perspective.
The part he said about self taught fixating on one thing and only drawing figures resonates with me. I picked up scott robertsons 'how to draw' but abandoned it because it was too difficult. This makes me want to take a second shot at that. And maybe do some studies of, I don't know, car engines or something.
>>2464257
that actually makes sense and i can see how beginners or amateur's wouldn't realize to do that in their first few months. And he did say the first few months of their classes were all boring basic shapes.
>>2464302
There is nothing wrong with learning complex perspective but I wouldn't listen to feng zhu about anything to do with figures.
Look at these character designs he did and tell me there not fugly as hell.
>>2464302
You should first know what it is that you actually want to do with your art. Don't just study shit because it's difficult and different from what you usually do, study stuff that will directly help you reach your own goal.
Feng likes to act as if concept art / industrial design is the only option that exists for professional artists. If you don't actually want to design motorbikes, spaceships, planes and car engines for a living, then don't waste your time studying that stuff.
>>2464590
That's not true. Feng even has a video where he talks in detail about Illustration and Industrial Design and what you can do with both.
>>2464148
>What exactly is the "one weird tip" that self-directed learners aren't understanding?
>Not learning the fundamentals
>Not drawing shitty anime\stealing styles
>Not drawing enough
>Not learning from nature
He always says you can do it on your own
>>2464698
>He always says you can do it on your own
getting good, yes
getting hired, LOLNOPE
gonna get that fzd-cred if you actually want a job. else you are just one of the 100k guys who are good but nobody knows them.
>>2464148
>misleading quote out of ass
Try harder
>>2464574
Characters and creatures are not his strongest points, but he can do pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xldrl3kl-aw
So how do I teach myself the core fundamentals he is talking about in his video?
>>2464736
Wrong. Feng even said in a recent video what we all already know, that school provides the best environment for improving and networking, but it's perfectly achievable on your own as well. More working artists do not have degrees than do.
>>2464762
How to draw
How to render
by Scott Robertson. That's all the fundamentals you need. Then you apply design skills that you execute using fundamentals.
>>2464767
I recently spoke with Tom Richmond of MAD magazine in person and he said the same thing. Nobody cares where he'd been, just what he could do. Take classes or go to school if you have to, but above all get good, my fellow fäms
>>2464782
His video on rates was the most informative stuff too. Not so easy to find that knowledge on the net.
>>2464833
Watts have some free 3hours + videos about this.
>>2464767
It's true ya know. Art schools are not going to teach you fucking shit when it comes to art. You should have learned all of that in high school. Basic color theory, perspective, and composition. That's all you can really be told how to do when it comes to art. Everything else you are going to have to learn your self through studies and time. It's all up to you.
Art school just gives you the time and competitive environment. I don't even consider myself the networking type of person. I never really tried to go out and meet people while I was in school. I just sorta kept to myself and painted a whole bunch while maintaining very few friends. But when I got my first concept job it was from those friends. Someone from my school got hired as a UI designer and they asked him if he knew any good concept artists. He then told one of my friends about this and my friend gave him my name. After that the studio emailed me and I sent them my portfolio, did an art test, and I was hired. Got the job from a friend of a friend I met in art school.
Studios just do not hire from online applications. They just don't. They hire from recommendations of employees. Networking is the only way you are going to get a job.
>>2464782
depressing
i'll never make it
>>2465063
Take comfort in the fact that 90% of FZD grads never make it either. So at least you saved 40 grand and still got your health, presumably.
>>2465044
>You should have learned all of that in high school. Basic color theory, perspective, and composition. That's all you can really be told how to do when it comes to art.
Alright, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Just to be clear, I personally never went to any art school, but the kind of stuff I've learnt from Nathan Fowkes and Sam Nielson's Schoolism classes about color and light is something I would have never picked up just by studying by myself. Same with figure drawing and Hampton / Vilppu classes.
That's what art school is about, only instead of pirating / buying online classes, you get to listen to the teachers directly, ask them questions when you don't get something, get them to review you homework etc.
>>2464746
The image you provided is almost all costume design, the skulls and hands he drew are pretty amateurish, there not horrible, but I don't think he would get hired to do any character work if he didn't already do super good environments/vehicle design.
The video you linked me to reinforces the point, those drawings are bad the faces and hair are ugly and the general poses are uninspired stiff and the guy on the far right arms are retardly posed. I would say needs work, not pretty good.
That said its irrelevant because hes a great environment/hard surface artist not a character artist and that's what he gets paid for. But considering he cant draw figures at a high level you really shouldn't take his advice on how to draw them. Environment/perspective wise hes a great resource however.
>> 2465044
>Studios just do not hire from online applications. They just don't. .
I agree networking is the easiest/quickest way to get in just like almost any other career. However I've gotten jobs through online applications as well.
>>2465027
>homework 16h per day
>Seems like good way to develop mental disease and destroy your life and health.
I don't believe anyone actually works that much a day, maybe one or two nights , but long term it pretty much impossible.Your hand/back would go out before you could go on like that for a year.
>>2465103
Seriously? What could you have possibly not known color theory or how to do perspective? I never understood how anyone could have a problem drawing lines to two points. Then there is the basic trick of making objects the same distance apart by drawing a line in the middle of the objects and another crossing line. Or how to draw shadows in perspective. It's the most basic of shit that you can learn in literally 15 minutes.
what did you learn in those classes? Complimentary colors? Tertiary colors? Monochromatic?
As for lighting, drawing spheres and cones should be enough info to go from. Wow light bounces! Materials have different lighting properties? No shit.
This is all shit you can learn in a day. You then just do studies until you can get the necessary hand skills and accurately replicate life. Master copies are the best way to learn composition and color theory. I guess if you don't know how to pay attention to whats in front of you and need it spelled out to you in a very demeaning way this kind of stuff can be taught. I'm super curious about how your work looks like that you didn't know enough from high school you could have carried on your learning by yourself.
I never really got how people fuck up things like skin tone colors. Just look at a damn photo and you can clearly see what's going on there. The colors clearly don't go from muddy red to a darker version of muddy red.
>>2465118
This Feng Zhu guy seems like all those /fit/ guys, you know, "Mutant Mass", "Gotta eat big to get big, come on!" etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UDiaBwqtCM
>>2464148
Might be duning Kruger here but I believe I began to understand "hey this is showing things in 3d" after 6 months of dedicated drawing practice. I'm 25 years old and I've been drawing 12 months now I had a huge improvement when I realised it's all just 3d, shortly after I learned how to study More effectively and my drawing has improved.
I guess the reason in making this post is to ask if this is blemish, watching this video makes me think that all the students shown including the art school student didn't know how to do either of these things before feng?
Am I correct here or not?
>>2465131
these people probably only drew an hour or two a day at best, probably an hour a week honestly.
If your dedicated it doesn't take much to stumble onto resources which tell you how/why to draw in 3 dimensional space. If your just doodling an hour a week I can see how it would happen.
>>2465027
John desilva claims 16 hour days for weeks, and going crazy. Regularly quotes this on his twitch channel, dude crazy though
>>2465123
I really want you to teach me. You sound like the kind of teacher I'd like
>>2465145
The best critique is "Look at what you drew, then look at the thing you're drawing. Do they look like the same fucking thing?" If not then just make it look like the thing you're drawing it's not hard.
I had this problem with modelers making concepts. People just do not pay attention to what they are doing. My AD at the time would actually say what I just said to the modelers. He would point at the concept and say "Why doesn't you model look like this? Why aren't you making the thing you are looking at?"
>>2465142
I don't believe it unless hes captured it all on twitch, 16 hours a day usually means I drew 10 hours a day surfed the web for 6.
>>2465044
>he thinks he can contradict statements made by professional artists and a survey of hundreds of thousands of people
>with a vapid contrarian 4chan post backed up with absolutely nothing but neckbeard meme magic
Let me guess, you're in school right now and you're 'totally gonna make it' unlike 84% of your peers-or better yet, you're a pro who's working for Disney right now and just happened to be browsing this thread at the right time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
>>2465084
>90% of FZD grads never make it either
what do you mean by this? surely you could get a job with the skills earned in that school, r-right?
>>2465543
Stop falling for /ic/ memerinos that can't back up the shit they talk.
http://fzdschool.com/fzd-courses/one-year-diploma
Feng is saying (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Al7QAS89s) that you definitely can get an art job of some sort without going to school (the statistics say this as well), he is saying this despite having a vested interest in people believing otherwise. Noah Bradley's oft-repeated quote similarly doesn't even mention his "art camp" which I think came well after he'd written it. Both of these men could have said "you won't make it unless you go to my school/join my class" but they didn't.
There are so many anecdotes of people with no real art school background finding success (or ones with this background suggesting that the background itself didn't really do dick for them) that it's become something that deserves very careful consideration by anybody interested in an art career, especially in a time when you can get a subscription to New Masters Academy for >$230 a year or attend a non-profit Atelier for roughly the same price as a community college.
To say that you 'can't make it' without school despite many pros and statistics suggesting otherwise is simply disingenuous.
Feng gives a lot of good tips and advice, especially with his podcast stuff.
>>2465063
I think the important part about school is that is reduces this sort of attitude. The most important thing is stick with it and simply do the work. This is true of anything.
>>2465808
Having known people who went to FZD, like half the class drops out and the only people that are successful are people who have had previous art school and people who have already worked in the industry or on entry level jobs (I think one or more of the before and after students had actually worked at a studio). So yes that statistic may be true, but a decent amount drop out and a decent amount were already on course to work in the industry.
>>2466047
That's typical for most art schools (that aren't a "non-representational" cult) though, isn't it?
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/visual-arts-film-majors/1854091-high-drop-out-rates-among-art-schools.html
>I'm just beginning to explore schools such as Pratt, SVA, SCAD, etc. I'm so surprised to see so many of these schools only have a 50% graduation rate, give or take. Why do so many students drop out of these schools?
So think about that for a second. Only 50% of the people at these very expensive schools graduate and a good portion of them do not end up getting a job after the fact (I think FZD actually has a relatively high 'employment rate', especially considering it's a 1 year class) regardless.
With all of these statistics in mind anyone that's in their late teens has no reason to pursue any art school right out of the gate unless they're on track to receive a substantial scholarship. You owe yourself at least a few years to try and 'make it' on your own volition. Given the astronomical cost, artists ought to start treating school as a last resort.
>>2466080
I found a good topical site to this discussion
http://www.collegeresults.org/
http://www.collegeresults.org/collegeprofile.aspx?institutionid=111081
>Four-year graduation rate 51.5%
>>2465187
He didn't, he claims this was over a year ago he's only recently came to twitch because it's profitable
>>2464148
How does anyone afford this meme? i mean i got a part time job but the time and money still isnt there, taking a loan is even worse.
>>2466350
>rich parents
That's mostly it, really.
>>2466080
I graduated art school. I wish I studied architecture or programming instead. Something that can tie into art. Or just stayed in music school. They actually taught stuff there.
>>2466498
I've been to both of those two better options.
What's art school like ?
>>2466518
**
Been to music and compsci programs.
>>2465123
Put up or shut up man. If its so easy everyone would be a master in a few years. It's not all about learning hand control
>>2464770
After your message I started to read How to draw (I already skimmed through the whole thing), I just did the first exercises with the ellipses and the early perspective.
I didn't thought it would cover that much about perspective, very interesting. Do I even need Perspective made easy at this point?
But the whole thing is very focused on creating environment and objects in grid in a detailed manner.
What I don't understand (as I'm a beginner) is the thinking process guys like Feng Zhu and other digital painters do for simplifiyng the big forms into so simple shapes, just applying brush strokes and translating them into a environment made of values and colors. Is there a book that cover this method in a more detailed way? That's very impressive and they seem so intuitive when doing that. Maybe that's the habit but I'm not sure I fully understand the thinking process of doing that.
>>2466643
Also, as a designer, how should you put the ideas into shape?
I mean, I used to have a lot of imagination, "universe" inside my head, but these last years it feels like all my internal world is formatted with mainstream things, when I think sci-fi I have those Halo planets, cars and armors, and other mainstream sci-fi aliens, etc
I might come with more interesting ideas by laying down quick sketches on paper, but Scott Robertson in his book sounds like he's translating every little idea into a fucking grid and making a big constructed detailed thing out of it.
The beginning of this is just a quick ugly disproportionate sketch with bad perspective hopefully?
>>2466518
They just handed out assignments with no real goals. It was all about the ideas. I went to a school with teachers who were mostly editorial illustrators who had intentionally naive styles. They didn't give a fuck about fundamentals and couldn't teach anything about them. Assignments were to illustrate boring articles. Critique sessions were worthless. Everyone graduated without being able to compose an image worth a shit. Or draw a decent looking figure. Or understand perspective. Etc.
I went there because it was in my state and had both an art and a music program, in case I decided I didn't like studying music. It was supposedly a good art school. I was a clueless young noobler and didn't know what I wanted to do or what to look for in an art school.
all fzd says is to stop fucking around on the internet and practice.
I don't think you guys understand what exactly these places teach. They teach you what you already know but try to translate that knowledge into more of your liking.
Basically, the same books that can be found here are techniques they use at their classes. There's no hidden tech, it's all out there already. However, some people out there have no idea how to find those techniques to make their path slightly easier, so they pay a fuck load of money in hopes they obtain that knowledge.
>>2465044
So true. Ive been working in the industry for 5 years and all I've gotten with no networking are shady jobs from strangers on the net that pay pennies.
You see a lot of established artists with successful comic book kickstarters saying that going to these networking events arnt worth your time but look at who they're friends with. people theyve met at local cons, massive black workshops etc.
Just put yourself in the shoes of an employer. Would you waste time and money trying to reach out to some random artist online? Or would you rather hire that guy you and your friend met at comicon a few months back who you see posting constantly on facebook?
FZD grad here. The school is really badass. Best working environment with no distractions. Great feedback from the instructors.
After going there I was able to find work. Before fzd I couldn't draw.
Idk why you fags like to complain about everything. Maybe if you guys spent half the time you do shitting on feng and his free tutorials, you could already have a job by now.
>kek
>>2466778
...so do you need to go to school to have a portfolio website, attend conventions or make friends with the right people on facebook, or would accruing the crippling amount of debt associated with school in fact prevent you from doing many of these things?
>>2466080
Not going to an art school and my university has in general something like 60% graduation rate. And we're a big STEM and business school due to location.
>>2466820
Not him but it's more about being involved with a program that will put you in contact with people in the industry.
I'm going to a school (not art, and not for art) with a program funded by the DIA that I'm involved in. I was an all source analyst in the Army so I have experience and (mostly) free college. Ostensibly I could just go to job fairs and send my resume out after I graduate.
But this program that I wouldn't be involved in if I didn't go to school or go to the specific school I am puts me in face to face casual contact with CIA analysts/recruiters, DIA analysts/recruiters?S&T, State Department INR outreach recruiters, DEA intelligence reps (got a pretty sweet challenge coin from one), I get to participate in analytical exercises put on by former CIA analyst who's now a contractor, and next week I will hopefully be participating in another with CIA recruiters and analysts along with other students involved in my program, plus I have the chance to get one on one advice on my resume and application from a CIA analyst manager before the exercise.
I imagine a lot of art schools, especially schools like Cal Arts SCAD RSD etc. are useful because of opportunities like that.
>>2465359
I mean you can just not listen to what a professionally working artist has to say. I graduated art school 6 years ago.
Just live in your own little world over there man. It's not helping you any.
FZD is great.
I'm tired of people shitting on him and his school. He pumps out very technically skilled artists. It's not his job to fucking make you creative and business savvy.
>>2466620
I never once said it was easy to master. I said it was easy to learn the theory. How many classes do you need to take where they tell you that angles in crossing lines of two point perspective should be 90degrees.
There are only so many things about art that can be taught. Everything else is learned from observation of either real life or master copies.
>>2466980
"Anti-artschool" mood is strong here. Too bad no one can even say names of 30 completely self taught artists. Especially who started late. I even seen walls of text in /a/ about how CAL Art brainwash people to make shit cartoons and animation.
>>2466990
please. I doubt most people here could name 30 artists at all without the aid of google.
>>2466975
>I graduated art school 6 years ago.
Save it for your blog, bro. Your words don't mean anything until you do. Go on your blog, make a post about how art school, contrary to the experience of hundreds of thousands of others, as well as some professionals that I've spoken to personally, made your 'storied career' what it is today.
I'll be damned if I'm going to let an anonymous poster on 4chan dismiss everything I've posted using an appeal to authority fallacy deferring to himself as the authority.
A lot of people succeed with school, a lot of people succeed without it, and far more fail than succeed no matter what they do. This is something that absolutely needs to be considered by anyone who desires to work as an artist.
>>2466998
R-ruan Jia, KJG, and uh, 28 better artists you've never heard of
>>2466998
about 10% of people could.
>>2466998
I would have a hard time remember just 30 names artists or not.
>>2467006
you sound mad. You also sound like you are not a working artist and somehow think you know more than you do because you're read some blogs or annoyed an artist during a q/a.
class dismissed.
>>2466990
A lot in Japan
And I guess you could say most of the Patreon fuckers are on the self-taught level
>>2467107
>"you mad xD!?"
I've provided numerous citations for my claims throughout the thread. Anecdotes by professional artists and articles based on census data. You have provided nothing but conjecture in response, saying that because you're supposedly a professional yourself (without including any reason anyone should believe you), that the words of several highly visible professionals like Clint Cearley, Stephen Silver, Feng Zhu, Tom Richmond, Noah Bradley and LeSean Thomas (who reiterated Bradley's message with a simple "this") are somehow made invalid as consequence.
>>2467644
>N-new pasta right guys?
>>2467956
*slap*
>>2466650
>>2466643
You don't need anything more than how to draw when it comes to perspective. in fact we had one anon asking some questions abot "pespective made easy". it was about some weird method of multiplaying shapes in perspective. scott's methods are much more easy that supposedly easier "perspective made easy". as for actual workflow and perspective application- you have to master all that techniques so 1 your brain can percieve forms in 3d and you can design and eyeball at the same time with high accuracy rate 2 you can use them quickly when eyeballing doesn't work, or when doing something perspective heavy as architecture. Drawing scifi spaceship doesn't require to measure every single form, but you need to at least be able to draw it through to mirror forms, and make sure they make sense in 3d.
im an fzd student atm and this threads are always 10/10 comedy reads
>>2469928
post portfolio
>>2469933
oh ye im really going to post on 4chan gl with that anon
>>2469987
If you were in FZD wouldn't be posting to begin with little nigga
>>2467644
this information is useless and you are a fucking idiot
the reason so many working artists did not graduate or even attent art school is because it is not required whatsoever
>>2470002
and why is that anon ? did u look into your magic crystal ball for that info or just put your up your ass? not having much time doesn't mean i cat use 4chan
>>2470004
I'm a' fucking idiot' because the information I've been posting throughout this thread is supporting the exact assertion I've been trying to make since the beginning? Are you drunk or just up way past your usual bed time or what?
>>2470032
that stare tho
>>2464148
wait isn't illustration and design the same thing?
>>2464590
you are not gonna make it
