How do you feel about Sycra's Iterative Drawing technique? Is it legit or a meme? He speaks as if it's the greatest thing ever. I'm a beginner and enjoy drawing heads but to draw 20 of the same in one go must be draining.
>>2457101
>I'm a beginner and enjoy drawing heads but to draw 20 of the same in one go must be draining
Never gonna make it.
>>2457104
this.
Drawing should never be draining.
>>2457105
>Drawing should never be draining.
Go do 3 hours of figure quick sketches and then come back and tell me you still believe this.
>>2457105
>Drawing should never be draining.
Maybe if you're drawing something you like, but stepping out of your comfort zone to grind the same material for several hours is nothing but draining.
>>2457129
I have, and i tell you that drawing shouldnt be draining after lmao 3 hours
Step it up
>>2457105
Lol no
>>2457142
You're not made for it bro. Maybe janitorial work? I heard they may be increasing the minimum wage soon.
>>2457105
Dumbest shit I've heard in a while.
If you're practicing right it SHOULD be draining. You should be thinking, problem-solving, and learning. That shit is mentally taxing.
If you're drawing and it's not draining, it's because you're so far in your comfort zone that what you're doing is basically automated. You're going through the motions. You're probably not learning very much.
>>2457104
>>2457105
>>2457143
>>2457150
These guys legit do not ever draw
Cmon fellerinos take the shitposting to reddit or somewhere else where the beginners are a lot more sensitive.
>>2457129
>draining
>3 hours of figure quick sketches
>quick sketches
>sketches
>mysides.jpg
>>2457105
Well, that is if you don't care about "gitting gud" ;)
>>2457129
>>2457176
We're not talking about time or "time well spent" retard. If you get tired of drawing you're not an artist. You should be enthused to draw mundane things for learning sake. Idiot.
>>2457184
I am 100 percent sure he meant drained as in physically and mentally spent of energy. Are you saying as long as you draw you can generate infinite energy? Can we just put a pencil to your hand and hook you up to a generator? No i dont think thats what youre saying, so I think that you and the guy youre berating are more or less on the same page. Get some reading comprehension or maybe take a walk, perhaps youve been drawing too long.
>>2457188
savage
>>2457105
>weak bait
>7 (You)s
is /ic/ being raided by tumblr?
>>2457184
There's a distinct difference between getting tired of drawing and getting tired by drawing, you fucking moron.
And I guarantee you every single professional artist has drawn things they didn't want to draw and not had fun doing it, to hone their craft. The distinction is not "good artists enjoy drawing anything and don't get tired of it", it's "good artists suck it up." Very few (if any) artists are these super-enthusiastic supermen you've convinced yourself of who never get tied of drawing and grin as they draw for 12 hours a day. They draw shit they don't like and get tired too. Hell, even drawing stuff you DO like is fatiguing if you're not on autopilot.
>>2457159
Kill yourself.
>>2457184
Sup year oner.
>>2457196
>/ic/
>raided by tumblr
So... 24/7 raid, then? We have like 3 separate threads on promotion right now and they all have to do with tumblr.
>this entire thread
I just wanted to talk about Sycra.
>>2457206
You're on /ic/ now
>>2457206
I'm not a very good artist but I enjoy drawing a lot. I would say that idea is both good and bad. You want to learn muscle memory and being consistent but also try out different methods and figure out what helps you advance more
>>2457206
The idea isn't that novel. Trial and error, making small adjustments to find which is preferable, is a pretty standard technique. There are plenty of videos out there of concept artists that make silhouettes and make small iterative adjustments to find designs they like, for example.
So yeah, it's worth using if it works for you.
>>2457188
Fact is my friend, If you know how to study properly this "draining" effect shouldn't happen. Drawing is not that physical and unless you have a mental issue not that difficult. You would have to assume the only thing being drained is your attention. If you're a female please don't respond.
Studying is mentally draining always and for everything. Ask any scientist worth a dime. Retarded discussion.
As for sycra's vids I found it personally helpfull.
I advanced more then when I did 1 whole head at a time. That being said try both. At the end of every week draw a complete head.
Try sycra's way from mon-sat and draw complete, master study type heads on sunday. Few weeks of that and you'll probably have your answer. (i personally do it like that)
>>2457307
Why would anyone take your opinion seriously if you watch sycra?
>>2457101
Sounds like a meme,I wouldn't bother just doing a ton of really undetailed, small drawings and just learn to draw faster and more freely, you can easily still get in twenty or more drawings a day like this and learn far more than just its base construction.
On topic the technique is good as long as your not being sloppy with your iterations, put effort into each one and do them well.
Try to fix what went wrong with previous attempts and build up good habits, don't reinforce bad ones.
>>2457176
time well spent is important, but so is how much time spent. If you only draw half an hour a day it really doesn't matter how well spent the time is your progress will be slow.
In my personal experience too when you "art" for long periods of the day it improves your intuitive drawing ability a lot more quickly, your ability to imagine 3d forms, light ect; improves equivalent to how long you study.
>>2457196
its spring break
I'm gonna take it witih a grain of salt considering he's only marginally improved in the last while.
>>2457101
sad thing is i'm just like sycra and i hate him almost as much as i hate myself
>>2457282
Damn, meek mill. Best you can do?
>>2457655
>meek mill
fucking pleb.
>>2457664
>i am literally retarded and it impedes my keeping up with bants
Aigoo... --;
>>2457101
> video begins with hemispherical brain hypothesis
are... are you fucking serious?
>>2458078
it's a concept that works in practice
The thing about Sycra's advice that a lot of /ic/ doesn't seem to understand is that somebody you don't like - or that you don't even think is a good artist - can give good advice sometimes.
He's usually gotten it from somewhere, it didn't just appear in his brain. Sometimes he adjusts the advice to either be more easily understood by his audience or presents it in ways that worked for him personally, but they're almost never a unique invention of Sycra. He's just the filter. To dismiss all of Sycra's advice uncritically because you don't like him just shows a lack of your own critical thinking skills. People who can think for themselves would consider advice on the merit of the advice - not the speaker - and take it if it suits them. I'm willing to bet you there are people here who will spend their evenings crying "Loomis!" but if Sycra did some "how to draw the head and hands" video based on techniques in the book they'd call his advice shit without giving it a moment's though, they might not even watch the video.
Advice shouldn't freely be taken because someone you like / trust said it, nor should it be freely dismissed for the opposite reason. It should be analyzed, and you should think about WHY it's bad advice or good advice, based on your own experience. Sometimes complete beginners without experience need to take a leap of faith on the advice of a trusted source, but if you're acting smug on /ic/ with no experience you need to reconsider what the fuck you're doing with your life.
The person being known to say false things / things you don't agree with / being unskilled in the area they're advising is a factor in determining the worth of advice, but not the sole factor.
There are lots of people here who hate to think. They prefer their convenient broad categories of "he's shit so everything he says is shit so I can dismiss whatever he says, and anybody who watches him is shit and I can dismiss whatever they say".
>>2458098
It's pretty unprofessional though
>>2458194
ok so tell me a flaw in the logic that there are 2 separate modes of thinking, both of which require different methods of teaching to get information stored. i'm pretty sure you're trolling, you just haven't given it any thought or you are a beginner and read somewhere that brains aren't divided in 2
>>2458224
You don't make excuses about why some people are good and bad at art and you face it head on.
Student A lacks: hand eye coord, atention to detail, understanding of color, perspective etc.
Flowery language doesn't help a student, it sells DVDs.
>>2458164
Hello Sycras wife.
>>2457101
>look at his work
>taking this guy seriously
To be honest, Sycra has been doing this for far to long to be so below average. If he doesn't have some mental disability, it's inexcusable. Everyone would be better without his advice.
>>2458243
This. It sounds like typical hateful /ic/ shitposting, but it's honestly true. He does have some good points for beginners and he's not a terrible teacher, but he shouldn't be more popular than all the master art teachers. It's so sad that not enough people know Vilppu, while everyone loves Sycra and fucking Jazza. I could murder that piece of shit for ruining so many new artists.
I've been saying this for years and I'm sure nothing will change in 5 years. How the FUCK can Sycra still be so bad after so many years?
>>2458224
The big flaw is that it has been scientifically debunked numerous times. That makes it about as legit as any other spiritual crackpot theory.
>>2457101
Looked on youtube... Saw the market he's selling to... Closed video...
>>2458256
You're rediculous.
There are different parts of the brain and some work better for others, but telling this to the student _Makes No Difference_.
Even if you were right, it does nothing to help and might be detrimental to how s/he learns.
I think Sycra is in denial. While watching that "pointy chins" series, you can see how. He talks about developing a "style", and he is very obssessive about it. But you can see he doesn´t really know what he is talking about. I think his iterative drawing video epitomize what the problem is really about: he just draws from imagination.
He does´t really draw from life, he is lazy. So his style is a way of hiding this, and a way of avoiding developing his visual library. He talks a lot about how he doesn´t have visualization skills. But we know what that really means. He just want to draw his OCs, he hates copying, hates fanart, he uses those garish neon colors.
For a guy that talks so much about learning, it seems like he doesn´t like to learn a lot.
>>2458258
what the fuck, it tells beginners that conscious learning combined with repetition is going to teach their unconscious brain to where drawing becomes second nature. what is damaging about that????
even based vilppu and scott robertson teach along those lines. they say that you learn and repeat the tools that are given, then once your brain has learned and processed it from repetition (going through the exercises and classes over and over) you won't have to think about all the things you've been practicing, it just becomes second nature.
also check out the first few minutes of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdUR1OrG3do
Works for me, I like repetition.
>>2457184
Then sycras iterative drawing process wouldnt be draining now would it.
>>2458248
>How the FUCK can Sycra still be so bad after so many years?
A lot of people on /ic/ are under the illusion that if you just work hard enough, the sky is the limit and you will never stop improving. That is just not going to happen to 99% of artists, no matter how hard they try. At some point they will hit a permanent plateau directly related to their intelligence and that's that. The vast majority of artists will never even get to Sycra's level before that happens.
And let me guess, you yourself aren't better than Sycra either, at this very moment, right? However you THINK you can easily surpass him in a couple of years. It's the same story every time. You think in 2 years time you will draw like KJG and paint like Ruanjia, but it's never going to happen.
>>2458277
i think what holds most people back is their personal taste. i mean i do believe that if someone puts in enough work, they can achieve whatever they want in art minus a few exceptions.
i'm pretty sure the plateau is just artists not pushing themselves or getting satisfied with their work level.
e.g. i'm pretty sure with the work and under some good instruction, someone like jazza could become a master.
>>2458248
>fucking Jazza. I could murder that piece of shit for ruining so many new artists.
this is actually what makes Jazza so great.
It's legit
When I first started getting serious, I'd do a single drawing of one subject once, then move onto another, thinking it'd be useful because I'd cover so much ground
In reality I just did it this way because it felt boring doing otherwise
And I realized I learned almost nothing out of doing this, especially dispelling a bad habit - I needed to repeat the same exact subject, in the same exact pose and do it until I get it right, so that I can finally understand what it is that I was fucking up on a conceptual level.
It's very hard to carefully pinpoint your own mistakes if you draw a different thing every time, I think this is the main strength of repeating the same shit over and over again.
It's boring, but it just works better.
In the end though, do what makes you draw more. If drawing 20 of the same head will make you lose interest, try doing 10 and then draw whatever you want. If that is still too much, try 5 instead. And so on. Draw in big quantities and do problem solving whichever subject you tackle, never fall behind an excuse or feel satisfied for your current skill level. If you find something you feel you're not ready to draw, THAT'S what you want to draw. Do studies about it. You'll then realize that you can't do X because you lack Y. So now you do Y.
>>2458277
Sycra stopped improving because he became a youtuber, which is more profitable than drawing fulltime.
Nowadays if you can successfully grow your channel, you should stagnate yourself and invest in making videos.
>>2457184
post your work
>>2458643
kill yourself
>>2458656
Your work is shit and you're shit. Go back to /b/.
sycra should browse /ic/
>>2458689
would he get blown up in a beginner thread
>>2458763
If you can survive /ic/ you deserve to be a pro.
>>2458689
I think he does. Or did.
[spoiler]He got btfo[/spoiler]
>>2457245
Yes, it's sounds basic when explained, but I never truly thought that way:
>Do the drawings, take your time.
>After that, review it. Then use references, poses, whatever.
>Put it side by side with your goals.
>Profit.
It's helping me. It's a bit drainning, sure it is. The only thing I changed is that I would hardly draw the same thing. I would always change the subject a bit i.e. drawing 20 faces, but changing ethnics, hair length...
>>2457393
Yes. There's the danger: do it many times and you can't change it easily again.
Just like drawing anime your whole childhood and then trying to develop your stuff...
>>2457402
It's basically math. Put more hours a day, then you'll have many hours a week, month, a year. And then you'll be improving more than the guy that just draw when he feels like.
>>2458164
Fucking christ this guy speaks so much truth. Too much win. Fucking printed for further use.
>>2458248
>It's so sad that not enough people know Vilppu, while everyone loves Sycra and fucking Jazza.
I can tell you right now it's 99% because they give their info out for free on JewTube.
To take instruction from Vilppu, Huston, or Westermoe et al you have to pay for it. And it's not cheap.
Someone who doesn't already make money from their art is going to see an online class from Mark Westermoe for $400 and scoff at the price tag.
>>2458938
you don't *have to* pay for it :)
>>2458944
>you don't *have to* pay for it :)
You can find a few pirated Vilppu videos on KAT or PB or whatever.
But you can't pirate the actual class you're taking with one on one critique and instruction.
You can't pirate a private Google hangout with Vilppu or Huston.
And the classes they offer online aren't even as good as taking it in person, which the price of would make someone who scoffs at $400 shit their pants in disbelief.
>>2458248
>I could murder that piece of shit for ruining so many new artists.
Let's be honest for a second, it's people's fault for taking granted what one person says. ALWAYS look for ton of tutorials and references to be sure getting the good stuffs.
>>2457129
I do that for fun.
>>2458849
Anyone got the screencap?
>>2457129
Only 3 hours? Bitch my life drawing classes are 6 hours.
ho boy. Well hey there, if your going to post, lets make it a game
welcome to sycra thread on /ic/ #3572
take a shot every time someone says:
>hes stagnating
>who are you to say what speed an artist progresses at
>he's a bad artist, but a good teacher
>I like his style
>post your work
>he's toxic to beginners
>he's helpful to beginners
>hes only stagnating because hes making videos
have fun!
>>2459053
nigga, thats alcohol poising at its finest
>>2458959
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiqDdKu5cz9LnU7nDKvPk2w/videos
>>2459060
no thanks paintfag
Sycra sucks and this shouldn't even drag on to be a bump limit thread you worthless imbeciles.
>>2459053
So basically drink every time someone comments ?
>>2459073
>no thanks paintfag
What does this even mean?
I provided a link to Steve Carpenter's YouTube channel videos.
And he knows a shit ton more about drawing than you do.
>>2459077
better than u anon
I swear, Vilppu himself could pay for a hooker to suck you off while he personally gave you a master class that was guaranteed to improve your ability to create an image, and /ic/ would have some complaint about it.
>>2459087
he only knows how to copy. sycra mastered copying at age 7
>>2458277
>And let me guess, you yourself aren't better than Sycra either, at this very moment, right? However you THINK you can easily surpass him in a couple of years. It's the same story every time. You think in 2 years time you will draw like KJG and paint like Ruanjia, but it's never going to happen.
Fucking this. The philosophy held by many on /ic/ that "he's been drawing for x years so he should be better" is maddening. I'm willing to bet good money that 90% of the time these comments come from people in their first or second year of art. They're learning their fundamentals and they're watching their steady gains in skill, and they've convinced themselves that artistic progression just continues at that steady rate.
You get diminishing returns after a while. When you're learning the fundamentals you get leaps and bounds of improvement - there's a lot to learn and learning it improves your art a lot. Once you've internalized those basics, you start needing to make decisions that are more subjective. There isn't just an objective metric where you mark it on the chart from "shit" to "I got gud."
I've asked this before, and nobody ever answers - if you're the sort of person who goes "this person should be better after drawing this long", create a fucking metric. Say exactly how good someone should be after one year, two years, five years, ten years. Explain how and why you think your examples are good.
You'll get shit on for your examples. I guarantee it. Because it's never objective. It's always the same - "his stuff doesn't suit my exact taste even after SO many years! pathetic!"
>>2458884
>It's basically math. Put more hours a day, then you'll have many hours a week, month, a year. And then you'll be improving more than the guy that just draw when he feels like.
This is patently false, though. You can spend six hours practicing poorly or doodling random shit and the guy who spends three actually thinking about what he's doing and reads books and STUDIES art will still outpace you. It's only a pure numbers game when all other things are equal, they rarely are.
Additionally, if you're staying up all night drawing sixteen hours straight or some shit, I guarantee you the guy putting in eight hour days and getting a good night's sleep is getting more bang for his buck. You're tired, you go on autopilot, you're not focused. You get sloppy. He's rested, he's paying attention, he's sleeping and internalizing what he's learned, translating it to his long term memory (sleep is vital for this). It isn't as simple as 'put hours in get skill out.'
>>2457282
>unless you have a mental issue not that difficult
If it's not difficult you're not improving as fast as possible.
I tried Sycra, only for one video though.
It was a perspective one.
He's not a very good teacher/video maker, but I'll respect his efforts for what he intends to do.
IMO a good teacher is...
Someone who articulates clearly, when talking do not pauses too much or hesitates, no muffled sound
Encouraging intonation, engages a lot to the student
Gives the minimal but sufficient explanations for his step by step process.
I may not like Proko's cringy jokes but his videos are way easier to follow as someone who doesn't speak English often. I'm having much of a harder time following Sycra's though. It may also be caused by the bad pacing of his videos.
From someone who rates teachers a lot.
>>2458689
His site actually used to link here.
>>2458277
lol so you believe in talent? If you work hard on improving for a number of years, you will improve unless you have intellectual disabilities. Working hard means working a lot and working smart, both is important. And this "still better than you" meme is a pointless cheap way to "win" an argument on /ic/. You can't just post your art to prove you're actually not bad because look what happened to merc wip guy, so there is no way of winning this.
>>2458938
There's tons of books that are much better resources than online courses, in my opinion, and you don't really have to be rich to be able to afford them.
>>2458248
If I wanted to sign up for vilppu's drawing essentials (I'm very new to drawing) how much time should I give my self to get used to drawing at all before signing up since it costs quite a bit and I don't want to get lost right away because I'm completely unfamiliar with some thing that they think is so basic they might not even cover it?
It looks like its a pretty basic course, but I've never taking art classes so I'm not sure what I should expect.
>all this defeatism
Holy shit you all sound like shitty, lazy artists who never made it.
>>2459596
>wow I still suck and I pirated all the artbooks I could, fucking shitty art mechanics
Basically yeah, they are just shitty artists who never put effort into anything they do and instead blame something/someone else because they can't deal with that fact.
Sycra pretty much drew his entire life. He then assumes that what helped him improve after years and years of drawing will also work for a random newbie that just started a few months ago.
>>2459564
>talent doesn't exist
Keep telling yourself that, kiddo. If that makes it easier to cope with being shit.
I want to see how many years it will take you to realize that before you'll start telling other noob wannabe artists what we've been telling you.
>>2459053
Can we make a bingo card?
Sycra stuff sounds legit, but you have to understand that he is a master of plateau - he didn't really progressed through years and some of his design choices like pointy chins everywhere are...not clever and hampering him.
t. total n00b repeating /ic/ menes and shitposting
>>2459606
I'm not one of those "talent doesn't exist" people personally but I also don't believe you hit a permanent plateau based on your intelligence as if there's some higher artistic concepts you just can't grasp.
People reach permanent plateus because they get content/lazy/comfortable and stop innovating in their approach. They go through the motions. It has nothing to do with your "intelligence reserves" being depleted or something, as if each year of art takes just a little bit more brainpower until you run out. That's retarded.
I don't agree with the people who whine that someone "hasn't improved enough for x years of work" though. It takes more work to get marginal improvement after a certain point - the difference between a guy who's been drawing for one month to a guy who's been drawing a year is usually quite dramatic, compared to a guy who's been drawing five years compared to six. It takes more work to get marginal improvement after a certain point unless you totally shift styles / mediums / approaches and have a lot to learn again
>>2459152
I actually agree with you, I really don't think anyone should be studying 16 hours a day.
But I think too many people use the "study smart not hard" excuse when it should be study smart and hard.
>>2459622
so you admit that everyone learns at a different pace, but find it hard to admit that some people have an intellectual ceiling?
it takes a lot of brain power to even come up with an idea, to make a decision which you'll be happy with. what if you're never happy with your ideas or choices? maybe what you believe is that there is no limit to technical mastery, but a lot of it has to do with mental gymnastics before even the art is created.
>>2459564
>There's tons of books that are much better resources than online courses
They're not. But in person is better than online.
>>2459569
Well it depends on your income, but I wouldn't take any expensive classes before being somewhat decent (1 year at least), but it's really up to you. I personally very much prefer learning stuff on my own, so I wouldn't think of paying 1000$+ for it. If you can, you should go to a decent atelier and just read Vilppu's books, but that's just my opinion.
>>2459680
Anime is real !
>>2459680
I don't like sycras style, but I don't get this, if you warped real photos to look like disney characters they would look ridiculous too.
I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of scyras work, but his work not being a perfect representation of reality is one of them.
>>2457101
>I'm a beginner and enjoy drawing heads but to draw 20 of the same in one go must be draining.
It is.
However, the single greatest predictor of succes is an attribute called grit. Perseverance, basically.
If you can stomach drawing the same shit over and over and over again, you will get good at drawing that shit.
You will burn yourself out of you do this and the trick is finding the strength to continue within yourself.
>>2460112
Exactly. If you looked at the first sketchbook I ever filled, before I even found sycra or sinix, I was doing repeats of heads until I understood them.
>Thinking this is someone's personal technique when it's approximately 400 years old.
>>2457282
What a load of bullshit even feng tzu talks about mental drainage
>>2461320
did he ever called it technique? or just the OP?
>>2457101
Just watched the video, just drew 20 faces.
I feel, sort of drained, but in a good way. Feels like when I go for a run in the morning, I feel tired but accomplished.
>>2465379
Forgot to mention I'm about 6 months in of about 10 hours of art a week (I go to uni and most of my time is that), and I've gone from not drawing stickmen, to being able to draw still life and buildings quite well. I was struggling to find my next steps and I have to say that this is a very comfortable next step!
>>2465383
Whatever helps u sleep fampai
