I'm not baiting, it's true. Why is this? I spent a while in Japan and the average person on the street could probably draw a better human figure than the marity of people on /ic/, I'm not even kidding, there is that much of a skill gap. What makes them so great?
>>2438882
>I spent a while in Japan and the average person on the street could probably draw a better human figure...
And were supposed to believe you?
You were in Japan, for a while. So 1-4 years? Even more?
And yet it never occured to you to simply ask them?
I know your statements are wrong, but atleast try to follow an inner logic when you make them. Right now not only are they factually wrong, but they also violate the logic of your story itself.
Could be their language and handwriting. All japanese have a ton of pencil mileage from having to learn all those individual characters. I think people on average were better at drawing in the west too back when handwriting was more emphasized in school.
>>2438882
>I'm not baiting, it's true.
If you're not baiting, then you're just plain old retarded.
>>2438882
Because of early exposure to manga. Think about it, you cant really speak a foreign language flawlessly unless you were born in that country or at least attended grade school. Those japanese kids were exposed to quality drawings early on, mostly from manga, but also ads and media.
>>2438882
There are lots of pretty good Japanese artists, but very few that are truly great at what they do. The vast majority of master draughtsmen and painters are from the West, Russia and China.
Same thing with comic books vs manga. The overall talent in manga is no doubt higher than in comics, but very few mangaka come even close to the western comic book greats. Same with animation as well. Lots of very good japanese animators, not a single one who comes close to the western greats. Japanese artists study western masters, not the other way around.
>>2438930
>only few great artists from one country can compare to few great artists from another country.
Thats fine and all, but OP was asking why the majority of nippon can draw well, while everyone else in the western world is too afraid to draw a straight line.
![N_l5xI7fYtYUUx1Zb6mvpgUQRYM2ub0D2o5wZUA9EZU[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cgzekQj.jpg "N_l5xI7fYtYUUx1Zb6mvpgUQRYM2ub0D2o5wZUA9EZU[1].jpg")
>>2438930
I don't know about comics vs manga quality, as japan seems to have many great artists of their own. Same on the animation front, they have pretty fluid animations provided the money is there.
That said, I'd guess that cultural focus plays the major role in anything. Here in the west, drawing, painting, sculpting, etc. don't have nearly the focus they did in the days of yore. Pic related, that was the era when artists were a dime a dozen in europe. Now, with all the focus on industry and skills that land you a dependable job, there's much less focus on the fine arts which leads overall quality to plummet. It also doesn't help that most art is a reflection of the times and society in which an artist resides either. Cartoons were intended for kids, and had to X episodes per year, so quality wasn't really focused on. In Japan they usually only air a series for a couple seasons, giving them time to concrete the story before they start production. This allows them to focus more on the quality of the media. They have a wider audience as well, so there's a bigger push for them to raise the standard of quality for selling merchandise.
There's tons of reasons why quality is higher from marketing and sponsorship money, higher concentration of artists to select from, more schools that focus on art, more cultural prevalence of artists, and broader appeal of the media in their culture.
All that aside, the west still has many amazingly talented artists, they're just not focused on because they rarely make their art for mainstream media.
>>2438882
>I'm not baiting
he says as he baits
liberal arts vs tradicional ateliers
>>2438966
Japan doesn't have much of an atelier tradition nor do they have any prestigeous art schools like Russia or the west. Most mangaka for example are self-taught.
>>2438949
>OP was asking why the majority of nippon can draw well
Well, they can't. That's just OP making a really retarded, baseless claim to troll people.
>>2438980
Why is the standard so much higher on pixiv than deviantart?
>>2438984
Because their shit artists are too ashamed to post work.
Not even kidding, there is just so much higher fear of rusing your face in their culture that nobody admits to being an artist unless they actually can draw well.
>>2438984
Why was the standard so much higher on Cghub than on Deviantart?
>>2438882
why do people have to explain this shit?
Japan has a huge market for cartoon media so their culture evolved better. it's not hard to fill in the blanks of why they're stronger at mass appeal. they've simply been at it harder and longer.America is focused on movies and video games. not cartoons. The thing you SHOULD discuss is whether or not were catching up.
cartoon media has started to look more like anime, cartoons have more lore. kids who grew up on anime are making the cartoons that americans watch. 3d animation movies are starting to take off a lot more frequently and have become more mainstream. our culture itself has more grown people who enjoy this kind of media due to the internet.
Our budget for all types media is fucking HUGE. that's why were even able to produce 3D animated feature films. meanwhile japan grew it's love for cartoon media because it was cheap and efficient. in America you will more than likely get paid 4x as much as a japanese animator. all America needs is the motivation to actually become an insanely good competitive market for cartoons. which it isn't because it doesn't make nearly as much money as half the shit we already do.
tl;dr: we're better at other things. we're kind of starting to catch on to the appeal of other things though.
>>2438882
>I spent a while in Japan and the average person on the street could probably draw a better human figure than the marity of people on /ic/
And what made you come to that conclusion? Did random Japanese businessmen, schoolgirls, construction workers, bank eployees etc just take out their sketchbooks and started drawing stuff whenever you were near them?
in japan if you aren't great at what you do you have to become a salary man and live with your family until you die
so they work hard
>>2438998
This so hard. I make a living drawing in Japan, and I see this all the time.
>>2438998
and that's how it should be or else you get Tumblr and Twitch.
>>2438984
I think a better question is why is shitty pixiv art is better than shitty deviantart art. It's like finding a neon colored monstrosity is rare there.
>>2438882
hide weeaboo threads, do not feed the naruto-loving trolls
>>2439069
There are far better artists on tumblr than there are on pixiv though.
>>2438882
95% of manga have shit art. The only thing nips are the best at in art is drawing cute anime blobs.
>>2438882
kill yourself weeb
>>2438882
Nice false flag faggot
>>2438889
Kekked
>>2438882
>the average person on the street could probably draw a better human figure than the marity of people on /ic/
thats not true just take a look at the fan art at any manga magazine
>>2441047
those are not average people on the street, those are loser nerds with decidedly bad taste and no sense of shame
In the west, cartoons & comics are seen as something for kids and when you grow up, you leave them behind. Hence, when they enter their teens people stop consuming them (or switch to Japanese stuff) and are no longer inspired by that medium. Creative people are more likely to get into writing or filmmaking because there's a wealth of mainstream media aimed at the teen demographic (key word being "mainstream" -- stuff you don't have to go looking for). Vidya has helped in recent years, but even then it's safer to learn a more useful skill like programming if that's the industry you admire.
For Japan, who has a large library of works aimed at every audience, this "it's for kids" attitude isn't so prevalent. I feel it's especially relevant for teens because that's when we're expected to start deciding what to do with our lives.
Speaking from personal experience; when I was a teenager I drew far more than I wrote, but somehow was convinced to become a writer instead. I never got the impression that art was a legitimate career besides filling up galleries or doing portraits on the street. To be fair, this would be a lot more truthful without the internet.
>>2438882
>Being this bias
Funny enough, even with a smaller population, when comparing the ratio there's still a lot more better artists in the west than there is in japan.
Schools in japan have better art classes from what I heard. The teachers there teach you how to see and make you draw some life drawings.
Your average american school's art classes in high school make students create collages and doesn't teach the fundamentals of drawing.
also most of the time asian parents teaches their kids about discipline from the get-go. not all but most, that's why they're able to do a crap ton more of homework.
>>2441701
Prove it, cite your sources
Thats right, you cant even explain it
>>2441727
>cite your sources
>Doesn't know about google
You understand, in the industry, Japan is really behind and has always been behind. They're currently catching up, but still too far back. Fuck man, I'm a weeaboo and I can see this clear as day. Not hard to look up and see who keeps rising the bar.
>>2438957
"All this tells me is how far ahead Japan was"
This image is so disingenuous.
Imagine if instead you showed a bunch of stylised images from the west with their dates. i.e. 1920-50 to even later etc.
Oh wait, Japan was doing that in the 1700s, so the west is 200 years behind.
I'm not actually saying this is the case, I'm just pointing out how stupid making a comparison like that is. When you're talking about two cultures with almost no contact and complete different value systems about art.
>>2441734
Man you must really bored, your troll attempt is pathetic
>>2438984
dude have you been to pixiv
>>2439006
>we're kind of starting to catch on to the appeal of other things though
no we're fucking not we're taking steps back and the same can be said for some anime these days
>>2439128
actually I've seen autism before on pixiv
I remember seeing a 2hu and majora's mask crossover series
and also Wario crossover with some irrelevant animu
I challenge someone to find a deviantart tier bad artist on pixiv. Japanese artists only, no cheating
>>2441837
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=2631510
>>2441837
It's easy, because not everyone on pixiv are professionals, retard. "New Work: Everyone"
>>2441848
still better than 16% of /ic/
>>2441864
post your work.
>>2441837
Isn't this kinda a biased comparison, considering how many people in Japan probably don't share their earlier works due to the shamfur dispray hivemind?
>>2441866
He's part of the 16%.
>>2441837
I challenge you to find a Nathan Fowkes tier great artists on pixiv.
Its subjective. I prefer a more western style.
>>2441837
Malaysia
/game
>>2441848
but that's not a Japanese but a Taiwanese.
>>2438882
They're not. You're just a no-taste weeaboo.
>>2442090
What's the difference?
>>2442212
Your accusation of cherry picking doesn't make the western peak any lower in comparison to the asian peak. White dick is better, 14/88 one drop rule we must protect our white genderfluid abloobloo children against the hordes of yellow autism monkeys
>>2441735
I invite you to show me some other Japanese art from around that time so you can exclude 'stylized' art from the pallete. Hate to break it to you, but japan was way behind the art scene regardless of what you want to put value on. I don't care if you value a cave painting by some aborigines in the same period, what matters is how far advanced the art was. Stick figures and caricatures are not the apex of art.
how come pixiv doesn't look like deviantart?
>>2442315
Oh believe me, it pretty much does.
I know Japanese, but you only really need a weeb-level understanding to properly navigate the site. 'Specially since a lot of it's in English anyway.
They push fantastic art to the front page as sort of a curtain to hide the swaths of shit. Pixiv has a much smaller community than Deviant art, so it makes sense for the abominations to be fewer. Though crappy western artist have begun to find their way there too.
>>2442284
There you go you piece of trash. The fuck is going on? When did this place got surrounded by kids that barely know how to shave? Ignorance is so daring.
Kid finds CRAZY technique to fool artists into arguing about nothing! Click here to find out more!
>>2438882
japan practise line control for their moonrunes could be that
>>2439128
There's a lot of poorly drawn guro and loli images that appear cringeworthy.
OP's idea of "better" must be off. Industry level anime art is laughably fugly and lacking in fundamentals these days, and it's becoming even worse as we move forward into the moe cesspool. Ironically enough, older Japanese anime illustrators (Sadamoto, Shirow, etc) are BETTER precisely because they are from the era when it was common to be inspired by Westerners.
>>2438882
how can you look at those two images side by side and think that the japanese one looks better.
the american one doesn't look like a plastic doll with fake tits and an expressionless face. she has actual lips and a nose and is conveying an emotion with her facial expression instead of just looking stoic.
anime is flashier than cartoons but in that specific instance the american one is definitely better drawn
>>2441848
where is this gif from?
she looks cool wanna watch!
>>2442822
She is supposed to be a semen demon, not a ugly witch. Do you honestly think the american version looks attractive?
>>2441735
>>2438957 here. The image was just something I remembered from another board's post. I looked it up because it was mildly funny, but also demonstrated a wide berth of western art from the romantic era (commonly believed to be the 'golden age' for art). The picture from japan was intended to be a knock against them, obviously from the original posting, but in this case it was again, just left because it was mildly humorous but had nothing to do with my points.
Seeing how OP wrote off american art with a similar comparison, I figured it would be okay to leave the image unaltered for a similar comparison. Sorry if that offended you.
ITT: buttfrustrated americucks
Because Japanese people in general have far sharper minds, talent and skill compared to your average brain-dead Western artist. East Asians have higher IQ than whites on average so this is reflected in their art, films, culture etc
>>2441701
Holy shit, I read clannad when I was 14 I think, and I never realized the sprites were this retarded.
>>2441837
There's a ton if you have certain fetishes as keywords. Or just type something mainstream like pokemon or vocaloid.
>>2442758
Most anons here are girls. They are jealous cause they cant compete with cuteness of anime girls.
>>2442990
>Most anons here are girls
In the social threads, maybe.
>>2442922
Wait, so you think the bottom image is sexy? Face has no detail, hair is amazingly lifeless and thin, looks,like someone glued on bangs. I think the only think swaying your views is a set of tits swinging around, which the American version went the prude route on. She also is missing her rear wings in the Japanese version.
>>2442990
I actually had a fun idea of a character that thinks all the people on 4chan are qt anime girls. The character was quite happy, even if someone shittalked him he imagined it was a tsundere. His tripname was "senpai" and he was one of the worst tripfags. The only people senpai hated was other tripfags, who had shown they were male.
>>2442976
>14
Clannad was translated in 2011-2012, dude. AWAY
>>2443305
>http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php/77237-Clannad-Translation-Patch-%28for-voiced-version%29
>>2442910
Big hetero sex
>>2442990
pretty much this desu senpai
>>2438882
>I spent a while in Japan and the average person on the street could probably draw a better human figure than the marity of people on /ic/
>study biology in Japan
>in one class, we're asked to draw a scientist as a warmup exercise on science communication
>garbage tier symbol drawing everywhere
You're a fucking idiot, OP. The average person is average even in your beloved moonland.
>>2442990
Are you implying they're competing for your favor?
>>2443360
calm your sour tits nobody can compete with glorious 2d.
>>2443305
Source?
>>2443373
> sour tits
>>2441837
you know this guy is a taiwanese/chinese artist right?
I always thought that Asian artists work harder. Study the fundamentals at a young age, figure out how things work. I also think they are taught discipline at a young age.
Not saying that every American artist is bad, and I know Pixiv has a lot of cringe worthy art as well, but most Asian artists I've seen have something that makes their art standout, it seems more fluid. I thought maybe I was the only one that noticed this?
>>2443381
"Kono Subarashii Sekai Ni Shukufuku wo!"
>>2441837
Have you ever even been to pixiv?
>>2438882
>implying
>showing a SJW lesbian VS retarded looking 4year old head on a weird ballshack-boobs body
i dont see your point.
I personally prefer western/european animation and comics
>>2443373
>all this projection
Calm your rancid ballsack, of course no one can. It's your delusions of desirability that are funny.
>>2444167
>redrawing scene
>use photo for background
>not even bothering to redraw original background over the characters if you're too afraid to draw it yourself
Why do people think this is okay?
>>2438882
Ehh actually by your comparison OP I think the problem is Americans are shitty at stylization compared to Japan, especially when most American animation these days emulates one style or has one basis in style for the era (Compare the similarities between Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, and Star Vs. The Force s of Evil. Lots of overlaps in the stylization right now. I heard this is because of the way certain schools teach but I think every era has its style)
Comparing the pic in your OP I don't neccessarily see a better figure in the Japan version but a more aesthetically pleasing depiction of the character.
Add the fact that the American has no highlight (which can bring a lot of life to art, especially when something is meant to be attractive like this character).
Not to mention America just half-asses everything when it rips something off from elsewhere (Example: Any american-made japanese horror adaption)
Personally I prefer western styles today to japanese anime styles. Occasionally a show will come along that has a style I like (still anime but a different stylization of it for example, or sometimes the story itsself is whats good instead etc). I find the roundedness to be more aesthetically pleasing to the more angled styles of anime (particularly in faces). This is probably like some anime I do like tends to be stuff like K-on (very rounded, soft style).
>>2444219
>Americans are shitty at stylization compared to Japan
are you fucking LITERALLY retarded?
Wester is basically a granddaddy of all kinds of stylizations.
What
the
actual
fuck.
>Add the fact that the American has no highlight
ok fuck off.
>Example: Any american-made japanese horror adaption
Holy shit.
Do you actually one of those who takes asian horror seriously?
Asian horror stops being goofy and ridiculous and become creepy and scary when its turned to western - what happened to picrelated.
>>2438882
West is Best, sucka! 'Muricuh #1! Trump 2016!
It's already been said, but nippon aren't inherently better, their culture just keeps them acutely self-aware of their skill level. Westerners are much more prone to dunning-kruger since our individualism and everybody-is-special approach to everything makes us believe garbage is worth positing simply because it's ours.
tldr; they have shame and standards
There are two reasons. 1. They have naturally better visuo-spatial sense. They don't just have natural talent they're drawn to it more. 2. They have a more robust civilization that makes them live with vigor and master things.
>>2438882
>weeabu thinks the weebshit is better because its weeby
>ignores the awful anatomy understanding of weebshit
>purposefully chooses a in-between frame to try and make the western art look bad
>still looks better
>>2438887
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRcGntkEh3g
here's a proof
my japanese teachers had this skill levels of drawing, they drew a bunch of cute stuff saying they were bad at drawing.
average people in my country draw absolutely horrendous stick figures beyond imaginable.
also many mangakas used to be like factory workers or athletes or some shit.
on a side note... it's weird that despite so much loomis and practice and studies and whatnot, I couldnt draw what she did to save my life. all that elbow movement and symmetry on the first line, without going back? christ.
>>2444444
SATANIC SIXTS
>>2444437
>>ignores the awful anatomy understanding of
weebshit
>ignores stylization
>>>still looks better
>implying the trans features on the first one are looking better than the baby face features of the second one
>ignoring the design chooses
all this thread
>using to compare 2 countries' artists with a picture which is meant for appeal and one which is meant for caricaturing the original
>using to compare 2 countries' artists based on just 2 artists, one work from each on top of it
>>2444444
This sequence of digits happens every 111111 posts and you had to ruin it
>>2444450
must have deleted that part by mistake
>ignoring the design chooses put into the character such as the feathers which grow as they go outside of the character, and which where ignored in the american version where they are all of the same length
>70 years later and still can't lip sync
>better
>>2441837
http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=10712373
You asked for it
>>2444588
He said japanese artists.
>>2444450
>muh style, therefore it cant be bad.
>>2438930
about your pic,
it isn't a difference in skill, western comics on average take a lot more time to finish their work.
>>2444444
tbf maids are trained to draw on plates and they draw the same thing over and over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3DbrkBsJo
If this gaylord is gonna praise the chinks why doesn't anyone bring Russia into the equation? Aren't they taught to draw from life at a young age?
>>2445511
Nobody cares about Russia until it comes to shaming the kuvshin or politics.
> Aren't they taught to draw from life at a young age?
Yes, but it's not taken seriously. On the other hand, I've heard japs are studying academic drawing at school.
>>2438930
> China
What does Chinese art look like?
>>2438882
Oriental cultures haven't been infected with the western degeneracy towards art yet. At their peaks, the west was above and beyond anything that any oriental cultures could produce artistically, but that was hundreds of years ago.
It's the same old story we hear a million times. Photography + Impressionism = The fall of western art.
>>2445842
>Oriental cultures haven't been infected with the western degeneracy towards art yet.
No, they have their own degeneracy. Jap art is every bit as hollowed out and overcommercialized as western art, if not more so.
>>2445842
Ah yes, this ann-ee-may truly was the last gasp of traditional art.
>>2445915
Not that anon, but where exactly did he said anime is the 'last gasp'?
If anything, it looks more like Eastern art has yet to get to its peak and then fall down, meaning it isn't as developed as Western art. Which is, uh, rather opposite to what you say.
>>2442249
speak english retard
>>2441837
> Go to danbooru
> Look up tags error or poorly_drawn
>>2438998
This might be true.
I've seen a lot of pretty decent Pixiv artists purging their entire gallery for no reason
>>2441837
>>2442910
Big hero 6
>>2438882
Because manga and anime is ingrained in their culture. Where else do you find stylized images of people absolutely everywhere on every street corner plastered all over the place? You're bound to pick up some sense of aesthetic and stylization of humans when you seen it constantly everyday.
>>2449837
Hot
>>2438930
>not a single one who comes close to the western greats
what a great meme
>>2449837
That artist is going to places I can tell.
>>2450647
Oh shut the hell up mikufag
>>2444444
Are you for real?
What she does is on par with a middle school doodle.
Why is this bait still up?
well just look at murata
>>2438882
wow, murrica sucks.
>>2441837
http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=1778766
not even hard
>>2450897
yes and he is a pedophile just like every other jap.
>>2451249
So are you. It's not like your stuff isn't right on the border.
Japanese art is all an imitation of Western styles. Early manga and anime was an imitation of Disney, 70s/80s sci-fi was an imitation of European comic artists like Moebius et al, and modern stuff is all moeblob bullshit so who gives a fuck what influenced it.
>>2451255
who what?
>>2451249
isnt the age of consent in japan like 14 or something, also japanese women look more petite, so a 14 year old can probably look 9-12 year old caucasian.
>>2451249
As long as he draws well, he can play as much Idolm@ster as he wants.
>>2451264
National age of consent is 13, but prefecture law supersedes national law and no prefecture has an age of consent lower than 16.
TOUGH LUCK PEDOS
>>2451270
You're not mixing him up with Miura, are you? Or does Murata also waste his time with Idolm@ster?
>>2451273
My bad.
Being able to mechanically shit out symbol-anime will never and has never been considered being able to draw.
>>2451323
>symbols
I love this meme!
Japanese students are taught art in school and are taught traditional art.
why the fuck is /pol/ in my /ic/
mods close this shit down
>>2451435
>muh feelings
>>2451436
Do perchance only draw pictures of strawmen ?
>>2450897
>take picture of van
>paint on top if it
>add an anime loli
Wow guys, I'm really impressed right now.
>>2438882
You mean why are Koreans better at drawing than Koreans?
Because Koreans did the majority of the work on both of those.
>>2451464
salty as fuck.
>>2451436
> muh bullshit that has nothing to do with art
if you're a manga artist all you do 24/7 is draw manga. Literally. Sane if you make anime
In countries like America, you have to pay people certain wages if they work certain amount of hours. In Japan you can pay someone a shit wage to work nonstop to make manga or anime and they wont say shit nor will the government or advocacy groups (there probably arent any)
long story short America complains about a lot of shit, japan doesnt
and before you get on me, I myself am a native born burger citizen
>>2441837
http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=14371710
>>2451271
Why do people continue to believe that Japan is some kind of free for all pedo fantasy land where 12 year olds are giving up ass for candy?
The stereotype of Japanese women looking younger than their age is exaggerated too. Sure, adult women look youthful but you won't see many OLs looking fresh out of middle school.
>>2451766
Or major business is exploiting peoples' passion. Many people are willing to take low wages to follow their passions.
>>2451977
> trash/procrastonating digital artist/Ftm/grey A/Fanfic/poetry writer/ taurus/cosplayer
This isn't a Japanese person.
