Part 2
-Are you still improving at a decent rate despite having a lot of thoughts that have little if nothing to do with what you’re drawing during practise.
-Is just the act of drawing a shit ton enough to improve at least somewhat? Or is it pretty much time wasted as soon as you zone?
-What techniques are you using to stay present in the work?
-Do you think your progress is on par with the average practitioner?

I will. Suck. Your. Dick. If you can produce some relevant peer-reviewed articles on ADHD and drawing. All the articles I’ve seen have been pretty pathetics.

_You can stop reading here, as the rest is pretty incoherent. Or at least more so than the rest_

I am so sincerely sorry if this hasn’t made much sense. And also for how long it got, Christ. I’m just looking for assurances from other ADHD(ers?) that hard work is enough to get to godmode-skill. And yes, of course everyone is going to say focus is important. No shit. Not looking for a circlejerk, just want to get a reality check from from people who’ve run that mile.
Having a hard time conveying this without feeling like a whiny faggot. Thanks to those those victim culture twats, anything even close to asking about learning disabilities has everyone in the room rolling their eyes. Probably a ton of people reading through this shit right now thinking “ok we get it, you’re so quirky-random and self aware. You’re so meta, bra. Tell us more about your stereotypical adhd bullshit you tryhard faggot”.

And god knows I’m not interesting in being some inspirational story for young artists having overcome the adversities of mental whatever. Hell maybe ADHD gives me an advantage. I’ve never talked to any other artists who have that shit though, so I have no idea if I’m on the right track or not.

so people I’m studying for anatomy and faces are Vilppu, Scott Eaton, and David Finch. Attached images is sadly mine.

As a person with severe depression and reading that you committed yourself to this is incredible. There are countless consecutive days where I can't even look at my art supplies. Good on you for sticking with it, and good luck with your replies.

Drew a lot as a kid was considered prodigy. ADD helped me hyper focus on whatever was obsessed with at the time and block out teachers, parents etc and draw on everything and at times it was not appropriate. Life got shittier around 12 and gave up drawing since, trying to get back into it Currently and wish I hadn't let other things get in the way. Keep at it and don't lose it. Become as obsessed as you can with something and finish sketches if possible. Your ability to detail and sketch is probably superb but the rest is likely shit. Try focusing on the boring parts or foundation work/color blocking the most.

I've got a bit of both. I'd assume the only way that it effects me is that I browse the net every 10 minutes or so or draw while watching netflix.

Although if I'm in the zone I'll just keep at if for long periods, especially if I'm in a coffee shop or something with no distractions.

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Hey so here's the deal in my experience. They still get in the way of art, but less than they get in the way of shit I don't care about. I really only started taking drawing "seriously" at 21, and even then, even then, I didn't focus on fundamentals enough, for the first few years. I'm 27 now, and I'm at professional level (not fucking great, but I'm ok), I'm hesitant to link my stuff here, but I consider myself a good example of someone resoundingly mediocre getting there (even though I'm really shit at the business side of things, so I'm not great at getting clients.) Here's an example of the shit I do, it's not my best work, (and it's a fucked ass wide aspect ratio due to being a DM screen for DND nerds) So yes, with ADHD I get distracted while drawing and it sucks sometimes (thought about meds, but never got around to it)
As for drawing a shit ton: mindful practice is always best. This can suck for us. I think my best results are found in varying what I study to not get bored with it. I do a lot of studies from life/photos and switch to constructive anatomy from text books when I get tired of still life bullshit.
I wish I had better advice on staying focused while working? Browser extensions like simpleblocker and stayfocused are great to keep me off time waster websites, but sometimes (especially with shit client work) its just a fucking slog :(
As for progress, yeah, there are people who have done it faster than me, but I've also seen myself pass a lot of people who frankly do not work hard enough. If you keep at it, you can certainly make a living doing it, though I'm hesitant to promise god-mode potential to anyone, I'm still hoping I have that.

How is dyslexia supposed to affect your learning process?
Besides reading slower.

I have adhd, and still being at a young age I haven't grown out of it yet. I feel that when I want something done I'll rush it in the linework and end up getting a barricade of angry black furry lines that just ruin anything.

>>2432657
OP is retarded. Watts had dyslexia

Ok, I draw only as a hobby but I can tell you my experience about how it affected my academic life. I don't know if I have add for sure because I'm scared to go see a shrink and I have certainly noticed that it's considered by many to be a meme diagnosis so idk what to do. I sure as hell ain't gonna take no antidepressants tho.

I can just tell you that I have extreme trouble concentrating for more than 10 minutes on most things. It's very bad for me. I didn't know all the way through high school about this because I managed to get As and Bs without much studying. Now I'm in college, a very good one thanks to my good grades in hs, studying comp sci and I'm barely scraping by with Ds and Es and failing a lot of classess (thanks taxpayers of yurop for free college) The pressure during finals gets immense, to the point that I get physically sick and have regular panic attacks. I might be smart or lucky or something because people who study much more than me are getting kicked out left and right, but that makes me feel even worse about myself because it feels like it's not fair that I get to stay when I clearly don't work as hard. It just makes me feel depressed all the time and at this point I can barely get myself to start studying anything because I know that I'll just get distracted within 10 minutes. I'm really scared and depressed most of the time and I've even lost friends over the depression.

Lately it got a bit better. I got into nootropics through a friend so I started taking piracetam with lecitin and it improved a bit, I can now work for longer periods of time but it's still pretty bad. I learned that vitamin B is good safe option for reducing depression, as in I don't cry myself to sleep most of the time anymore (if you take it after a fatty food it's more effective because vitamins are well soluble in fat). And now I'm starting to get into meditation but I don't know if that works because it should only kick in after a longer period of time.

ADHD is a modern myth refering to some undeveloped personality traits rather than a mental health condition (which is not), it's treated like that to justify chem industry to drug everyone instead of being more warmful and helpful with those with problematics. That's the world we live in.

You don't need drugs, you need to take control of your incentives.

>>2432859
And kids with autism and epileptics just weren't taught how to behave themselves.

Fuck you. If you know all this shit then why aren't you the head of a company that offers treatment programs for people with ADD then? You would take them in, be warm and tell them to take control of their incentives. You would get filthy rich because you would have better results than all these shitty meds from the evil pharma industry with your superior methods.

>>2432928
You can't monetize the solutions that work when these are exactly the hardest ways, it's simple but not easy.

The best solution to be in shape is pretty simple, and you can't monetize it, because it involves a lot of resilience, it's not a miracle, it takes sacrifice and resilience.

You can't sell resilience, you can't transfer resilience and anyone else can't build resilience for other people but for themselves. People is willing to pay for shortcuts.

You can't compare autism even with epilepsia. Epilepsia totally is a brain problem, a health problem just like migragnes, the rest of things are psychic/mindware deviations.

and cut out the hard work bull shit mentality

everything is about smart work

>>2433001
How do you know all that? How the fuck do you know? Just because you pull words out of your ass, doesn't mean they are true. You have these magic solutions but they only work in your fucking head. If you can't help people gain this magical "resilience" then how the fuck is that a solution? How? You do realisz that these people have a hard time concentrating on WORK? So how the fuck is it a solution for them to WORK on themselves so that they are able to WORK when they aren't able to concentrate on the WORK in the first place? Don't you see the retarded logic in that? You are a fucking retard who spews bullcrap like he's the smartest man ever but you will never put your money where your mouth is because you are full of shit.

>>2433103
don't be so neurotic and calm yourself
I don't know a huge deal, it's pretty simple how things are for brain or the body, it adapts (changes) on stress. Going nuts trought anything helps you make it better than before next time. And it's not your "work", you're only responsible to take action. Your cells are going to do the rest of the work.

It's like art, you can't work on your learning process itself, you can't work on programing your brain, it does that on its own if you make the proper incentives for that to happen -nothing supernatural dude-. You just have to take challenges and after those expiriences everything else adapts step by step, from your muscles, neurosytem to your brain.

If you want to guess how to turn that 10 mins of concentration limit to 2 hours copycat the solution to turn none bar push ups to 15. Design a good incentives, and if you can't do it (most probably), stick to someone else's plan. Take it simple and don't try to overcome it the hard way, spread those 10 min like a pomodoro getting back to it, and the next time add a minut, and then so. That's long and boring but it does work to change anything for anyone.

You can't help people to build resilience if they're not open to that. And you can't find too many people who can share that, as it's a scarce resource. Not everyone has a olimpic coacher behind killing all negative troughts and pushing our limits.

tho, it must feels bad realicing there are no excuses for first time

>>2433125
>Bad wiring due to genetics
>"It's their own fault man"

>>2433135
it's a pain train, but also empowering senpaitachi

>>2433139
who said that?

it's like pointing to newfags to art being so bad is their own fault, they're learning and they might have been learning wrong till now

there's nothing as faults dude

It's pretty shocking to see how someone can turn an enforcing and positive message to negativity
but oh well, it's 4chan

>I’m just looking for assurances from other ADHD(ers?) that hard work is enough to get to godmode-skill.

It both is and isn't (for that hard work to pay off it needs to be effective), but I don't see how that's reassuring considering ADHD affects our ability to work hard in the first place.

The bad news is it definitely puts us at a disadvantage, but the good news is it's not just for art, it's for everything. Of course environment/eventual comorbid disorders/etc. matter so we're not all equally suited for it and don't have the same opportunities to actually succeed, but that's the same for everyone, ADHD just tends to amplify that effect.

I'm not gonna talk about my personal experience right now because I don't think that would be helpful (maybe later though), but here's some advice:

- That one applies to everyone and it's already been said in this thread but don't work harder, work smarter.

- If you can, get a part-time job. Volunteering works too. Drawing classes don't count. The point is that if you want to stay motivated on your own and improve effectively (which, sorry to say, but you're not) you need to draw less.

Seems counter-intuitive but what you're doing right now is spending as many hours on it as you would on a full-time job, without getting paid for it, and at a level that probably doesn't make it very satisfying in itself. It's a bad idea in general, but even moreso when you have ADHD. It's really impressive that you stuck with it for a whole year, but it shows in your current level instead.
Get some external structure back into your life so that the reward won't just be making progress but drawing in the first place. You already know that if you work hard enough and smart enough, you'll improve, so focus (ha) on staying motivated.

>>2433125
>I don't know a huge deal
That's a fucking understatement if I ever saw one.

Saying non-statements like "Things are for brain or body" is not proof. Nothing you said makes an coherent sense. You obviously know jack shit about these issues so kindly shut your uneducated mouth. If you want to declare that you have a solution for ADD go ahead and try it, produce some actual data, some proof not just mangled sentences pulled out of your anus. If you say that this will cure ADD, then fucking show me the people you cured with this process you fucknugget.

>>2433125
You are talking like these people are just lazy. Holy fuck you fucking mongoloid prick. Most of these people actually suffer and try to fix themselves, you coming here and saying "durr you just have to work hard and fix yourself" is like me going to a disabled dude and telling him that he just has to practice walking to fix himself.

Yea sure, it might be a symptom of our age, the computers, tv and lots of other distracting shit that might cause this in people, who the fuck knows. But that doesn't make it any less of an issue you cunt.

>>2433274
>ipmplying it's an illness
>implying it's solved with a "cure"
The box is a trap and you're thinking inside it

I tried to be concrete, but I'll be more.

What happens to change a conduct is not relevant to actually do it.

You can make a triple playing basketball without realicing all the processes your body is doing to accomplish that goal, and even if you're concious about some of them, you're not in charge of them.

With anything related to the mind, knowledge or skills it's exactly the same. You're not in charge of the most things that happen on your brain. Your consciousness is a small part of what's going on.

This is not in conflict at all with everything that is objectively known about neurology or psycology m8, it's consequence of that.

I'm just pointing that you (your conciousness) is in charge of your choices. And you can try to build better incentives like >>2433168 said, or copying other kind of plans that are actually proven more succesful than yours or none at all.

I've not said I have the cure to ADHD because first of all I don't consider it any illness at all, nor it need any cure.

As I don't think a new artist need a "cure" to git gud. He just need to learn.

And calm yourself lol.

>>2433279
Trying is not the way to success. This is some sad fact no one shares because it's not funny.

If someone's already a tryhard they just lack the criteria to put their efforts on the useful solution that actually works, and they might live an entire life ignoring what it was about.

The wisdom to overcome those difficulties is a scarce resource. So it's not their fault, it's not just laziness.

I'm just saying they can really make a real improvement and what's behind that.

Im both adhd and dyslexic as well. Dyslexia has never been a problem but BOY adhd gets in the fucking way.

90% of the time i just get frustrated/bored after 15 minutes. Or i get up and pace around. I'm fucking sick of it and have been forcing myself to draw every day lately. On 8 days now, which doesnt seem like much but its huge for me. I can't do 8+ hours yet but I hope to get there. I'm actually improving a bit and I'm pretty excited.

I guess I hit a tipping point the other day over watching my life slip by without doing anything I want to improve on.

>>2432601
Funny enough, I have ADHD and or dyslexia. Though, according the amount of people I've came across, this seems like a popular combo.

As to how it's effected me, honestly, I can't say for sure. Only been at it for a year, and I've recently found an artist who's motivate me to draw every day. I think that's the problem here, I didn't have any kind of real motivate, all I know is that I have characters and worlds I'd like to come to life, and I'll work for it to make this a reality. I don't draw as much as I'd love to, but attending various online lectures and courses at my college, everyone has told me that my work is above average, or within the 8 - 12 week course, they've never seen growth so quickly.

My art is still ass, and at times I do get depress about my progress. But, talking to other artists, it seems like, no matter the illness, or if the person is 100% healthy, it's all the same battle (unless it's something extreme, of course). The issues and feelings you brought up are the same thing everyone else goes through. Just push yourself, that's all that can be said.

>>2433299

Mental shit is just too wishy washy. The way I see it is, do whatever makes your life better, and always try to improve whether you've got problems or not.

If drugs help you, does it really matter whether or not ADD is fake or whatever? The point is that it improves your quality of life. As long as it does that, who cares?


My hands shake. It's a brain thing, it runs in my family. My lines might never be as clean and straight as I want them to be, but that doesn't mean I can't make them better than they are now.

Don't think about what conditions you have, don't compare yourself to other people. Just work hard and do whatever helps you work better.

>>2433379
>do whatever makes your life better
That's not a good tip, because some personalities just tend to avoid any stress, difficulty or challenges that you can't overcome yet. And all these expiriences are always the most valuable at everything.

The way is to do whatever is unconfortable right now, because that will make you better, more disciplined and more resilient. And at the end, more succesful.

Making a better life is a pain train in short term.
>but that doesn't mean I can't make them better than they are now.
kudos4u

>>2433379
I like this post. I like this post a lot.

>>2433384
Getting better might involve pain, but that doesn't mean pain = getting better.

You want to do things that you know will help, even IF it hurts. Avoiding all pain is bad, but seeking out pain is just silly.

>>2433473

Think of it like this.

If you use pain killers every single time you ever feel uncomfortable, that's bad. But if you use painkillers when the pain is keeping you from doing what you need to do to get better, that's good.

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>>2433299
>2433299
>>2433296
You can't even form a coherent sentence and you expect anyone to take your retarded theories seriously, holy shit my sides,

>>2433537
Correct my sentences instead of shitposting.

>>2434512
Where did you get your medical degree?

>>2434540
When did medicine kidnapped personality traits as "illness" or "health issues"?

Will being silly be considered unhealthy at some point?
At modernism every absurd becomes posible.

You don't need an authority check to make true statements m8.

>>2434512
Brah, you are heavily generalizing and extrapolating from too few examples. ADHD is a real condition, and it ALSO is used to trick parents into paying to "cure" their kinds.

For OP:
I was on Ritalin for most of my adolescence. When I went to college, I vowed off any substances that I thought of as mentally changing me, and stopped taking it. What followed was plummeting grades and horrible life decisions. Not sure if the two should be corelated, but take it as advice to keep on the medication.
As for drawing, I try to stick to a schedule as much as possible and whenever I get distracted, I remind myself to follow the schedule. Doesn't always work (like right now) but it does help.
And I think you'll make it if you have dedication like that.

>>2434551
>low dopamine levels in the brain is a personality trait
I guess depression is just a personality trait too. Some people are just born wanting to kill themselves.

Please dont talk about shit you have no idea about.

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>>2433125

>>2434557
You do not even consider that these drugs stunt the abilities they're meant to replace, when you get out of them you're even in a worse situation than the starting point.
If someone has been taking painkillers for years how can someone expect him to carry his life without them?. It's not a starting point all over again, it's worse...
ADHD symptoms exists, the ADHD category is just arbitrary, and trully nonsense. Do we need it? No. Do we need another "name" for the oposite of that conditions? No.
I know I'm challenging you to think outside the box and it's not looking well kek
>>2434560
your dopamine levels are consequence, or more exatly, at least related with your circumstances too, and on the same circunstances two persons have completly different expiriences, and those exiriences change trought maturity of your personality type
Being positive, optimistic and enthusiast is just as being negative, pesimistic and depresive. It's not a health issue. Mental states are not a health thing as being right/wrong, weak or strong, insecure or secure of your ideas, those things can't ever be sticked on the same fucking categories. But it's happening and I'm pointing that, and I'm being called wrong just to be against the mainstream believes that are taking over sciences, solid reasons kek

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, “My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all.
“One is Evil – It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.
“The other is Good – It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: “Which wolf wins?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

>>2434592
>your dopamine levels are consequence
>mental states are not a health issue
>being secure/insecure is a health issue not a mental issue
>science isnt a reason
So youre a fucking retard, got it.

>>2434592
Literally what.
So you are stating that ADHD symptoms are real but we shouldn't call it ADHD, and that ADHD medicine affects gets rid of the ADHD symptoms, and when you get off the medicine you have ADHD symptoms.

>>2434604
It's not just the name, I'm talking about the category ADHD represents, which is cheap and arbitrary. It implyes it's an illness when that's non sense.

I'm neither against the use of any drug, but it does no good. Therapy is better, basically it's about to mature, with help if it's needed.

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>>2434551
>every absurd becomes possible

I guess you are a living proof of that

>>2434602
>So youre a fucking retard, got i
>dopamine is made by your brain
>your troughts too
>(you) are in charge of part of your troughts and actions
>some troughts and actions affect your dopamine, our brain is so cool you can take control of your mental state, sick 2.0 wizard trickery not understood yet
Mental states are not brain problems.
Some brain problems really condition mental states.

Guess what, ADHD'ers have no fuckin brain problems at all.

Calling it science doesn't make it science.
Calling it reason doesn't make it reasonable.

>>2434645
smug animu face tier oh kk I surrender

Dyslexic here, I've found that my hand writing has actually gotten alot ever since I've started to draw. Are there any noteworthy dyslexic artists out there?

>>2434647
>chemical imbalances arent problems
>its not a real problem because its in the brain
>the brain is like this grey area bro where everything is ok, just different for other people, but its always ok
>alzheimers isnt real
>parkinsons isnt real
>bipolar isnt real
>schizophrenia isnt real
>split personality isnt real
>diabetes isnt real its just an insulin imbalance bro

Your brain is an organ too, it doesn't always work properly.


Why cant I do homework without taking medication, my body physically fights me to get up and walk around and do literally anything else while my conscious fights to focus. Thats just my mental state bro im just lazy youre right. Even though I put in 3x the effort into trying to focus than any other non ADHD fuck does, Im just not trying hard enough. I just have to get into the right mind state bro.

You win. I'm mad.

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>>2434647
>>2434649
holy shit are you a real person or are you just memeing us right now? I bet you are a minority.

Haahahahaha please, you can't even google definitions of words you are using and you still have provided exactly 0 sources for your clams. But do continue, I'm laughing my ass of at this retardation you keep spewing with your broken english.

>>2434551
>When did medicine kidnapped personality traits as "illness" or "health issues"?

Medicine categorizes things. You take symptoms, understand causes, learn how to treat it. The idea is to isolate a behaviour/condition, identify its causes, and treat it if it needs treatment. You can do that with many mental illnesses people are convinced don't 'exist'. If it has symptoms you can define and treat, it fucking exists. Human behavior is based almost entirely around biology, which can be influenced with medication and changes in lifestyle. You could call "sad" a mental disorder and prescribe treatment if you want, and there are people who do that.

Of course the name of the disorder is made up by doctors, that's because they're the one categorizing it. They're going "this is the problem, this is our system for knowing it's the problem, this is how we've determined you can fix the problem."

Whining about it is like saying the middle ages are made up by historians and since when did historians kidnap our past?

>>2434671
can't you even concrete what words apparently I used wrong?
Should I just believe you I'm wrong or what? I wan't to believe but I don't, at all. So please, be honest and make a minimun effort.
And my claims are...? Please, show me how extraordinary these are.

Not really sure why you make a post like that, you only contradicted my points, disregarded my autority and over all that, a reaction face, ew

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>>2434679
>can't you even concrete what words apparently I used wrong?

Holy shit what does that fucking mean? Do you know what "concrete" means? I think you are trying to be condescending but it doesn't work when you don't know what words mean.

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>>2434679
>make minimum effort
Says the fag that can't make the minimum effort to put together a meaningful sentence.

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>>2434679
>disregarded my autority
Do you even know where you are right now?

>>2434678
>Medicine categorizes things
and in this case it has been done with things out of it's objective domain
medicine can't play on psycology tier nor psycologist can play on their domain with medicine categorys as health issues, it's not the same, but it's treated like that, why? cuz it's easier to drug the idiot to keep him productive, which is the important thing after all for the system, so it can parasyte you even if you're not fixed, the patch works!

>if it needs treatment
ask yourselves, who's the arrogant who knows it's just "a problem of unbalances" that better is fixed with some drugs
What is the cause of these sympthoms? They're ignoring it. They're not treating it. Because it requires touching some emotional deep shit and that's totally tabu as it always have been.

>Whining about it is like saying the middle ages are made up by historians and since when did historians kidnap our past?

No, but historians can narrate things without being objective, and that happened a lot. When historians attemted to explain big phoenomenoms they couldn't handle scientifically at all, they simply messed up.

At the moment a bunch of characteristics are considered as an illnes just because they're considerably challenging for daily life.

>>2434684
okay, the translation is misleading from my mother language as it refers to completly different things.. I'm refering to being accurate or precise, to ennounce the exact thing, or you won't add any value to the thread :/

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>>2434695
>things out of it's objective domain
Do you even know what medicine is?
>What is the cause of these sympthoms? They're ignoring it. They're not treating it
0 sources = 0 credibility

>>2434704
I know you think you are explaining yourself but you really are not. This made even less sense than most of your shit. Unintelligible sentences don't add value to anything either.

>>2434695

>just because they're considerably challenging for daily life.

Which is why they're identified, diagnosed and treated. Nobody just flicks the ADD switch and has ADD, so the doctor pulls out their ADD scanner, checks against the complete list of possible human illnesses handed down by Moses and goes "yep, that's ADD."
They simply show the symptoms that professionals have identified (namely, chronic inability to pay attention to the detriment of their lifestyle) and then they are provided with a diagnosis and medicated (like with ritalin but with many disorders also with therapy to try and get to the root cause, as you have alluded to). "Illnesses" aren't defined as such until they're a problem. Think about the etymology of the word "disorder" for a minute.

I'm lumping psychologists in with doctors here in terms of 'health professionals who can prescribe treatment'. There is no surefire system for classifying problems with people, even actual physical ailments aren't always easily diagnosed, much less mental ones. All the illnesses we know of are 'made up' in that they're just categories, labels attached to patterns. Just like "medieval times" is a category made up by historians full of its own complexities and disagreements, but there for the reason that everyone is on the same page.

I do think it's a problem with modern medicine that we treat symptoms rather than fix causes and overmedicate, but that's neither here nor there when it comes to whether you should consider a disorder a disorder, and I still think that the medical professionals are more qualified than you to determine whether the person with ADHD just needs to take a fucking yoga class or something.

>>2434724
They're treating the symptoms, are you blind? That's what they're doing, it's not a secret, if they would fix the root, you wouldn't need drugs nor anything :S

So you are even ignoring that? :(

>things out of it's objective domain
I say that because knowledge is divided by disciplines and one can't step on the ones above it or behind itself. Medicine can't grasp problems of the conciousness as phisicist can't grasp the origin of life.

That's why I'm pointing out that taking outsider phoenomeons from the discibpline and saying it's an illness is not correct

And the consequences of that mistake are unlikely helpfull in long term for those people with problems to focus/work :/

>>2434645
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

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>>2434728
>I do think it's a problem with modern medicine that we treat symptoms rather than fix causes and overmedicate
exactly this
>but that's neither here nor there when it comes to whether you should consider a disorder a disorder
someone else replyied me it's on the same boat as epilepsia. And meh, you can't fight epilepsia developing your self as you can't fight a brain cancer, but you can overcome disorders.
>and I still think that the medical professionals are more qualified than you to determine whether the person with ADHD just needs to take a fucking yoga class or something.
I'm not pointing what concrete solution they need, I'm just pointing they need help with the true root of their problems, which are not these middle-consequences that causes more problems in life.

>>2434785
>but you can overcome disorders.

That's your opinion and I really doubt you're qualified to weigh in on the myriad mental disorders that exist, nor their causes and solutions.
It's easy to say you can reduce it to a matter of willpower, and it might be the case to an extent (even the OP suggests that he 'soldiers through it') but that doesn't mean it's not a problem or that it shouldn't be addressed as one. 'Soldiering through it' doesn't solve it either. Sometimes medication is the best solution that's been found to make someone function as they want to function. I guarantee you most people with ADHD have their personal behavioural ways to combat it in addition to (or instead of) medication, but the fact remains that these solutions aren't as consistent as just cramming some amphetamines down your throat, even if it's probably not that good for you.

To make it relatable, say you get a bad headache pretty often (and if you've ever tried to focus and draw with one you can probably agree it's possible but a real pain in the fucking ass and usually detrimental to the end result). You're faced with the option of painkillers or just putting up with it, I'd say the answer is pretty cut and dry for most people. Painkillers don't fix the headache, but they fix the symptoms, and most people can settle for that and function.

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>>2434780
Again. You provide 0 proof. You might as well be babbling about rainbow unicorns. If you don't give your sources then you are full of shit. Claims posed without any evidence can be refuted without evidence.

>>2434807
you're implying an absolut: none with adhd symptoms can fully recover and reach way better qualities overall than average

none at all
o
n
e

Well, don't expect me to believe in that bullshit based on zero facts

I'll please your ears: you're nor responsible of your actions nor decisions, blame your luck and keep taking drugs till you die

>>2434800
you can order a disorder room as you can order your knowledge about something as you can order your emotional mess

that's not an opinion, that's what our brains do on daily basics on small things mostly

emotional states may cause physiological problems, you can fix your headache if it's just related to stress with some meditation
you can't fix shit if it's cronic migragne that just happens randomly and it's not related anything with will

>>2434829
>that's not an opinion

Yes it is. You're saying you can just organize your thoughts and that's the magic solution to a problem as if this hasn't been tried. It's mindsets like this that have PTSD survivors fucking shoot themselves because they can't get over their experiences. It takes a lot more work than that. As another anon said, the brain is a muscle and it can have problems just like any other. It can't independently solve those problems consistently with some magical personal regimen where you meditate for 30 minutes a day and tidy the disorder.

I'm not interested in splitting hairs on the headache example, it was an example to add some context you could presumably relate to on the subject of focus and willpower.

Picking yourself up by your bootstraps and using your iron will to surmount a psychological obstacle is a lot more easily said than done. It's the same advice you get when someone has a phobia they don't understand. "Just face your fears! You'll be over it right away!" The same with addictions. "Just man up and quit."

It's possible, yes. Theoretically it sounds easily. "You see that? Just do (or don't do) it. Easiest solution to your problem ever." It's sure as shit easier to give that advice than follow it. It's easy to say if someone fails "yeah they're just weak, it's their problem" but that's also not addressing the problem.
Understanding the problem, diagnosing the problem, and curing (or for failing that, medicating) the problem is a leagues better solution than some dipshit going "just like, try a little harder man."

>>2434839

And in addition to this that doesn't address that (while I won't weigh too heavily into it because I don't know the science) that people have done tests and brain scans and concluded that many disorders (such as ADHD) can be identified from them. Problems of brain chemistry, namely.

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>>2434825
Again, where are your sources for that information nigger?

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They told me I had autism. Did they lie to me?

>>2434851

I'm arguing with him too but you're being fucking retarded at this point. All he said in his post was addressing YOUR claims. Stop just screaming for people to cite everything without even thinking like it gives some sort of intellectual high ground by default.

>>2435011
It's not an argument. He's just pulling assertions out his ass while refusing to give any studies or any evidence to support them. You can't argue with people like that, you just laugh at them and post smug anime girls.

>>2435011
>screaming for people to cite everything
You do realize that evidence and reliable sources are a thing people use to prove stuff right?

And it's not like I'm pestering him for small things he left out. He literally didn't post a single reliable source, or any source for that matter that would support any of his claims. People like that deserve only ridicule.

>>2435059
>You do realize that evidence and reliable sources are a thing people use to prove stuff right?

Yes, and if you read one of the posts where you smugly suggest he cite it he's literally saying "you're making x claim"

Do you want him to put your post in APA, MLA or Chicago, anon?

>>2435068
yes, and if you read what he was replying to then you could see that I wasn't making that claim.

I assume you mean this post: >>2434825

>>2432601
Hi, I have ADHD and I'm learning animation. I'm not very good with drawing, but animation is making me enjoying the process of how to draw. Ask me again in 3 years and I'll have a better ansr. If I don't give up...
See ya!

Stop feedinng that troll, autist, /pol/tard, edgy teenager or whatever it may be.
>>2432859
>>2433001
>>2433017
>>2433125
>>2433135
>>2433143
>>2433150
>>2433296
>>2433299
>>2433384
>>2434512
>>2434551
>>2434592
>>2434600
>>2434631
>>2434647
>>2434649
>>2434679
>>2434695
>>2434704
>>2434780
>>2434785
>>2434825
>>2434829

The hardest part about drawing for me is starting. But once I start I can go for a long time.

>>2435180
>ADHD and animation

Why do these 2 work so well?
When thinking about it, I guess it makes sense.

OP here. Really appreciate you all for sharing your exp. Sounds like most of you are in the same boat, more or less.

>>2435493
MVP.

>>2432601
>>2432605
I don't know if you're still here OP but I recommend meditating in the morning and not turning internet until later in the day/evening.

>>2435803
Appreciate the recommendation. I don't get "distracted" in that sense so much; my mind is constantly swirling with thoughts while I'm drawing that have nothing to do with drawing.

Meditation seems to have some studies to back it up, but I've honestly not found a technique that would be best for my sort. Usually get too frustrated to be honest. May have to give it another go.

Didn't read the whole thread but here's my experience:
I was diagnosed ADHD like 5 years ago, and I say it actually helped me develop my skills as an artist.
Here's what I did at that time (high school): I told the director my I was diagnosed ADHD and got a allowance to draw in class out of it. Then I spent the rest of my High School days drawing. As I consider myself pretty smart (by comparison to other people) It was still easy to follow the class and do well in tests without taking notes.

Overall I have to say I progress pretty slow in drawing (slower than in math, informatics and the likes) but I like the challenge just for the challenge. Now i'm in Art school and still doing better than most of the trash here - I aint no prodigy and there are better people but it's good enough for me. I draw from 2-10 hours a day (depending if I draw the 7 hours in class or not)

I still suck hard at digital stuff but im trying to work on it.

I need to switch styles workflow and the likes a lot (I get bored fast working on the same thing - but I don't think thats necessarily a bad thing as I learn a lot of new things and train to work fast) but if I really need to focus for a longer on something [spoiler]I smoke a bit of weed - at the right dose it feels like Ritalin as in it helps me concentrate but gives of a much more natural feel and has less side effects[/spoiler]

>>2435059
>didn't post any source

what the heck need source? nobody point me what in particular I should backup and why nor why it needs a fucking study.

I didn't make any new claim at all. People can pick themselves up and failing is not an excuse.

>Human's are responsible of their on behaviur.
>omg back it up and stop being a dick you teenager autist (smug face)

I'm not inventing anything, there are ways to deal with your weakness (let it be ADHD symptoms or w/e else). Those shits are not illness. Lack of maturity is not a health issue, it's a lack of maturity.

I didn't made any new claim nor false claim. Some of you're neurotics over ADHD'ers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1XWIBbc17M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6o2_UFSEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQF_WoionPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOiGm-X8cak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFEzAiKalog

>>2436013

I'm the other guy, not the one asking you to cite, but you're obviously not gonna listen to a fucking word anyone says unless they agree with you complety

>>2436085
It's not me who is confusing things and disregarding for free. I'm not supposed to imply the myths everyone else has fallen on to. Considering phenomenons out of medicine a health issue just because it's mainstream. There's no way to back that up, you can't defend that category with authority nor facts.

And I can accept it's an illness in the first place, but that's a pretty hard thing to solve, because it's pretty arrogant.

You have to prove all positive propositions with facts.
Abstract knowledge from understanding a bunch of settled positive propositions (sciences) can't be proved up the same way, as it's just a logic matter.

It's my fault to expect a deep exchange in the first place.

>>2436153

All you keep seeming to say is "ADHD isn't a thing just focus lol" which is retarded. You're stuck in this ridiculous idea that for something to be diagnosed it needs to be some crazy neurological disorder and refuse to listen to anyone telling you it's simply a classification of symptoms.

Professional goes "person shows symptoms - we can fix it x ways."

Going "just figure it out yourself" as a treatment DOES NOT work for a majority of people. You seem to just have zero fucking grasp of human behaviour whatsoever. Whether it's purely behavioural or neurological, it's identified as a problem and classified so it can be studied, understood and hopefully fixed.

Anyway this is going nowhere.

>>2436170
I've never said "just focus" nor "all your problems are imaginary". Nor it's easy.

You're just wishing I'm doing that, cuz it's easy to fight back.
Patching up everyone when there's a lunatic stabbing people is not a solution to the problem (somoene is stabbing people). Using drugs is the same, the problem still is there. And that's not all.

It's not about figuring it out. It's about building resilience. There's not a recipe to acomplish that as there's not any recipe to git gud at art. It's more complex than cooking a cake.

Don't get stucked, the original cause of these attributes remains there. The concept of illness itself excludes that it has any relation with maturity, so it's counterproductive to make any progress trought personal development, as you can't fight any illness with smart choices, but you can get your shit togeter at psycology with that.

What if those "negative" attributes are only the consequence of mentally retarded people educating sightly deviant minded people with standards in an unflexible society only fitting for themselves, so then it happens those poor deviants have expirienced a lot of struggle and little to none self control nor mature.

There's nothing behavioural that is not neurological just as there's no chemistry without phisics going on m8. :/

Now pls guys, tell me to back up logic with letters.

>>2436013
You claim that ADD can be cured just by person's will. That IS a new claim. You did not back it up.

Now for these "sources" you just shat out after hours of nothing. Fucking tutorial vids from youtube are your source? Really nigger? Well if I went to a doctor and he told me that this new cancer treatment is good because he saw a dude talk about it on youtube I would totally believe that. Then a TEDx talk, not TED, TEDx. Literally anyone can do a TEDx talk so that one goes straight to trash. Then you have that david lynch foundation vid which just looks like a company trying to shill. I couldn't click through to a single peer reviewed paper on their web so who the fuck knows if they are a scam or not.

M8 your sources are shit and your opinions are shit and you are a fucking retard, go back to school you dirty minority.

>>2436275
I don't think you understand what logic is.

>Using drugs is the same, the problem still is there
That is an assertion you just pulled out of your ass.

>It's not about figuring it out. It's about building resilience
another assertion out of your anus and it doesn't even make sense.

>the original cause of these attributes remains there
assertion. you made this up

>What if those "negative" attributes are only the consequence of mentally retarded people educating sightly deviant minded people
that's a complete guess

>>2436153
You made a shit ton of propositions and when asked for proof you just ignore it.

What people dont get about "M" is that discussion with him is not leading to anything, he is not really interested in an actual outcome, he is rather interested in an neverending, vague discussion that gives him the attention he craves so much and being "right". Stop wasting your time with him, its all he wants. He is in a thread were multiple people are arguing against him, no one supports his cocky brought for claims and he doesnt see anything odd in this or how he maybe should change anything because of it, everything is consequenceless for him, that basically says all there is to need to know about him.


>>2432601
ADHD can be a really bitch and it is hard to make any useful stuff out of it. I am not having ADHD myself, but i used to know someone who had it and actually wasnt so bad at drawing, for him it probaly was about transforming the training to rather smaller achievable goals and not to be cruel to yourself by demanding tasks that would need concentration and long term planning which is beyond the given abilities. What he liked to do and maybe is something ADHD helping, is drawing something Wimmelbild (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimmelbilderbuch) like stuff, for training or as general art, smaller single finished tasks, that can be expanded or finished at will, or even continued easily later.

>>2436401
Not a cure, you can make those attributes your strenghts. I don't consider lack of maturity requires a cure, as it's not a health issue. Developing yourself is an option you have to be more productive and be happier within your nature.

Videos are not sources, are just examples of people that did exactly what I'm pointing out.

You don't need studies to back up you can overcome a circunstance. You would need to have determinism to be otherwise.

Using drugs does not fix the cause, it just change your atributes as long as you're under the drug effect. Using drugs is fine to improve yourself, but doing that everyday will make your outcomes rely on keeping the consume, and that's not really great for long term.

>>2436414
>assertion. you made this up
Do you really think the negativity of those atributes do not have a cause?

There are pretty extreme ADHDers who are pretty happy and succesful, who have managed to make those attributes their main values.

oh wow, you have no clue how many hardships and diseases and mental challenges, insanity etc that artists of the TOP CLASS have. Really it either IS or it IS NOT, like eveything else in the world. You stop to overthink something and all of a sudden life is over, and you only thought about it

>>2432601
>Got ADHD? Tell me if/ how it affected your drawing progression.
cant focus on art and thats all
was on the road of being good but lost my will

>>2436966
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdUASEaDZyc

>>2432601
I was on dexamphetamine for my adhd all through highschool, and i think adhd made me a better artist. whenever i got in the mood to draw, i HAD to draw, and thats all i did, through all of my classes and everything, and i never got distracted (innatentive adhd)

>>2432777
I have some bad news for you, friend: You don't exactly "grow out" of ADHD. That shit never goes away, you just learn to deal with it better. Get a counselor if you haven't already. It helps.

I'm still somewhere in the upper end of beginner level in art and still absolutely learning, but I can throw my two cents in as an ADHD haver. First things first, though: if you haven't seen a therapist or counselor, yet, do so. The earlier you do it in life, the easier it is. I had to take medication when I was younger, and consider it from time to time nowadays, but I've managed without drugs for most of my life, now. You learn to play to it, so to speak. When I was really little I had trouble keeping up with school, but after a little push from a proper psychologist I was an A student most of my academic career.

For art, the biggest hurdle that ADHD seems to create is the inability to really commit to finished pieces. Sketching is fun, especially now that I'm getting more the hang of it, but anything that takes more than two or three hours is hard. If I put it down, I can be pretty sure I'm not likely to pick it back up. Find a structured tutorial like Drawabox.com and stick with it. Having the structure helps keep you from getting off track, and since you have clear, concrete goals, it's easier to force yourself to do the practice for longer assignments.

Generally speaking ADHD will make you want to erratically switch between tasks. I'm bad at resisting this, but I get around it by keeping two or three productive things handy at a time. If my mind is wandering on gestures, I'll switch to reading about anatomy or something, then color study, then gestures... Interleaving the things you learn helps keep you from burning out as quickly, so let that work for you. If it gets hard and you want to move away from a topic, don't. That's not ADHD, that's just normal human laziness. Come back to the hard thing in a half hour like you would anyway.

OP Har.

>>2436001
Appreciate your thoughts. Was curious about if any ADHDs would reply with their school experience. Weed isn't an option for me though.

>>2436921
Wat?

If that's to me (op) I think you missed the whole "adapting" techniques for ADHD. No one said anything about stopping the art.

>>2436435
Solid input, both on the woo-troll and the actual topic.

>>2437396
>Appreciate your thoughts. Was curious about if any ADHDs would reply with their school experience. Weed isn't an option for me though.

I'm >>2437092 again, just to give some context.

Do you mean primary school or higher ed? I guess I can give both, but if you're done with primary there might be some redundant information in here.

Homework and long tests were the biggest drag during primary school. The former took longer than it should have, but I had a rule (imposed by parents) that I had to do it before I could do fun stuff. They loosened up on this during middle school, but it had been so ingrained at that point I kept it up. Good way to never miss assignments even without ADHD. I probably don't have the best advice for tests, since my strategy was just "be a good student." everyday testing just became a matter of finishing them as quickly as possible. I'm good at memorizing things and learn easily in traditional school environments, but that may not help you, much. State standardized tests weren't really an issue, despite their length, but that's because there were a joke and gave us way more time than anyone should conceivably need.

The SATs still haunt me, though. I got 2000 on them twice. They're a battle of attrition moreso than one of knowledge. I'm not sure I can give any advice on how to tackle the college-entry standardized testing. If you're a good student, the material won't challenge you, and it's just a matter of plowing through as much as you can before your brain starts to work against you.

For higher education, I went to a non-standard liberal arts school. No testing or grades, just evaluations and month-long projects and research. Surprisingly, that was much easier than the standard one-long-test-at-the-end-of-the-semester model, since you can break up the work over a longer period. Study what you love—it's likely the only chance you'll get. That's probably advice for everyone, too, actually.

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As a sufferer of mild ADD who tried adderall and didn't like it, it's been an interesting ride for me as an artist.

I'm basically either hyper into something or bored out of my fucking mind. I move from project to project way too quickly, and I can't really finish anything. It drives me a bit nuts sometimes. I am also very good at details, which I feel is both a blessing and a curse at times.

I can't really give you any advice, I'm afraid. Just try your best, and work when you're feeling most inspired I suppose. I've had more luck when I'm in the mood to draw than when I'm depressed.

I got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and I've also got a mood and personality disorder. They cost me the career I originally shot for, so art is my safety net

Unfortunately, the residual discipline from my first career has all but faded. I feel like I'm significantly behind for someone my age and my dream of living at least a little bit off my art dwindles day by day. I feel like I literally cannot progress at this point. What takes the typical artist a couple of hours to complete literally takes days for me. I can't sit down for more than ten minutes at time, if that. I just can't focus.

I've been damn near begging my psychiatrist for some sort of stimulant, but she's a fucking idiot who's super keen on upping my antipsychotics, even though I tell her I don't want to be on them anyway.

I'm never gonna be a good artist, senpaitachi :(

>>2441421
I'm just like that, even down to the ADD, though I do not/have not taken adderol. Though you have a passion for detail you can't find the passion for art. Figures

>>2441531
>I've been damn near begging my psychiatrist for some sort of stimulant
yeah they don't usually respond well to that

>>2432601
i probably have adhd but good luck getting it diagnosed and treated in this stupid country

>>2441421
>I move from project to project way too quickly, and I can't really finish anything.
So did Da Vinci! Great drawing btw. How long have you been studying traditionally?

>>2441762
Agreed. I know someone with ADHD, and they were just like:
Yeah, Icarus, you've got it too.
And trust me, weed is not my thing (two hits and I had a headache for a week, no high, still sober when everyone else was watching dinosaurs walk by), and I refuse to take meds, so it's all I can do to focus. My trick is just to listen to music and set a daily goal. Mine is to fill up a page every day. That gets me to focus enough for maybe an hour of drawing because by the time I'm finished, I've lost track of time and I want to do a second and third page.