Art is a discipline of conveying truths that cannot be expressed by either philosophy or science. The aesthetics are a product of the verity of the work. Aesthetic enjoyment based on catharsis is using art as a junky, it is not true art anymore than porn is, a porn is used principally for erotic catharsis. Orthodox art (not excluding pre-schism Western styles), including music, ceremony, paintings, and so on, is an example of art par excellence.
>>2399189
Not necessarily trying to jump onto this potential 'debate' with full force, but I've started to think about this a bit lately. I mean, if art is just about making something pretty, I mean, what the hell's the point even? Sure, one could argue that good art is good because it's just good, but I'm just unsatisfied by one-dimensional art. And there seems to be so much of it. Granted, a lot of it is produced by young people still searching for their own image, and the rest is by veterans who couldn't care less about guiding the youth.
So my question is: What is the end that artists should reach for, through the means that is art, anyways?
>>2399196
>What is the end that artists should reach for, through the means that is art, anyways?
Ask that question to 100 artists and you'll get 100 different answers.
>>2399196
Modern art has been there already.
After WWI, art seemed to just lose its conventional meaning -- starting something called dada - the "art is just a concept" movement. Think Duchamp
>>2399196
the end goal for artists and their art is an exhibition of their work at a reputable modern art gallery, and an index entry in an art history book with their name on it.
>>2399204
OP here: I disagree that such a teleos is art. I would say if that were the case, then Suicide Squad is more artistic than Women and Men.
>>2399208
can you elaborate
>>2399210
I think the further art is away from portraying truths, the closer it is to, say, a Nike label. Whereas the closer it is to truths, the more artistic it is.
I am using a criterion for art was how it fit into the linchpin of academics during the Christian epoch. Truth was the sun which all academics orbited, each was considered a unique way of expressing the truth, and that tied them all together and made them harmonious and complementary. Now each discipline is more and more becoming a narcissistic endeavor, trying to have the truth unto itself, trying to monopolize it and viciously attack other disciplines which threaten its possessiveness. The disciplines are becoming atomized the way the community, the Church, the family and society in general was, into narcissistic individuals instead of a cohesive organism. This started in Islam, disciplines began official war with The Incoherence of the Philosophers, and the rejoinder, the Incoherence of Incoherence. After the schism, the West became Islamboos in their theology, and this discord was ingrained without it even being intentional due to the premises which were greedily consumed being salted with the poison.
I think art is best applied as a tool to help people explore different identities and realities. This will bring people together. Maintly because it cements tolarance with the idea of: every reality has a right to exist.
Trying to capture truth with art is nonsensical when there are many perspectives to view truth through. Hence, claiming to make truthfull art would probably be contraproductive to the benefits of art. Instead it should work like a secular pantheon with many different approaches to perceive reality. But they are all unified by the idea that there are many truths. This would probably not be something that all none artist would be profoundly knowledgeble of.
However the effects of art that create an ambivalance between right and wrong, god and evil and explores the limits of our norms. This would still probably be healthy in the long term for our culture and the audience.
The astetic part is important to art like rythm is important to music, it captures an audience with elegance or decadence, and all inbetween, and can enhance the experience tenfold. If everything was composed, written or played in a genreic way it loses its potency as a perception altering tool. And the generic aestetic would probably dictate the content aswell, as it must be a product of our cultures values, see popmusic for example.
>>2399228
desu I think relativism is cancerous. If all truths are equally true then the value of truth suffers from inflation so tremendously that it might as well be worthless. Christianity sees God as the ultimate value, from which all others spring, like colors from a prism. But relativism sees no objective vale and meaning which others are refracted from, all meanings are just independent and equally truth; so the truth that they all share in is what happens when all colors are mixed together: darkness. There is no meaning, there is no purpose, there is no point, there is only chaos (from Greek for "abyss"). Total relativism means each truth is true so far as it partakes of the ultimate truth, which is, paradoxically, nothing. Nihilism and relativism are two sides of the same coin.
I'm not a faggot, so I don't look for overbearing descriptions with no practical application or connection to reality, like pretentious art hipsters do.
It's just shallow mental masturbation, and it's what led us to modern and contemporary art, which really is devoid of any meaning or value.
>>2399213
>I think the further art is away from portraying truths, the closer it is to, say, a Nike label. Whereas the closer it is to truths, the more artistic it is.
you're saying is that art is high status and advertising is low status because that's what you want to be true.
everything is true. lies are true lies.
>>2399235
I beg to differ, relativism is the foundation of any sound idea. However every truth is not equal, those how challange limits and those who want to restrict others to only think within the boundraries set up by institutions and their culture are very different in the eyes of a relativist. The latter is a better parallel to cancer, it spreads uniform ideas which permeate individualls and creates congestion in the evolution of ideas and decay is the only possible escape in such system. However the former one is unhampered evolution creating excess of ideas and the possible outcomes are many more and the ideas recognize their limits and let room for other ideas to flourish.
Relativists don't belive that they can pander to every ones need with one singular truth. There is no such thing as a one size fits all reality. That is why they want to let people find the truth on their own, nothing that is easy by any means, which might be why chrisitanity and populist ideologies are so popular, they have an easy solution for every thing
>>2399314 continued
The nihlist on the other hand does not seek truth for himself or help others to find it, To me the paradox is to refrains from having any values or truths and still go on doing something; that is narcissism and self deluded apathy at its piniacle: "no responsibility yay!" And that is what a lot of preprogrammed values in our culture does, they makes us apathic as we are skeptic towards them but there is a lack of other options. The end result is that we draw from the lack luster tradition of capitialism system/ populist ideology and the mainstream, and drugs, fame, wealth, excess and other hedonistic and material values become the deafualt motivators for our actions and the outcome is a spiritually starved people living for a fixation on an idea that they didn't even arrive at after rigorous search for a lifestyle that they can actually resonate with.
PS:By truth I mean a set of values that dictates ones actions kinda.
PPS: all colors mixed is actually white, rekt?
>>2399312
Sounds like Satanic drivel. Try to apply this to a discipline such as philosophy or science and say everything is equally true, even lies are true lies.
>>2399314
>how challange limits and those who want to restrict others to only think within the boundraries set up by institutions and their culture are very different in the eyes of a relativist
That's obviously a matter of personal perspective, since if it were innate of relativism, relativism would cease to be relative.
>That is why they want to let people find the truth on their own,
They don't believe in finding truth. You never get closer or further to the truth, you can only have different fan art, so to speak.
>>2399316
Nihilism is the logical conclusion of relativism.
>PPS: all colors mixed is actually white, rekt?
No, each color blocks out lightwaves except for what is reflected back. Mixing all colors together blocks all lightwaves.
>>2399517
Well it depends, all white light, as in pure light wawes, is a mixture of all colors of the spectrum.
>>2399517
>That's obviously a matter of personal perspective, since if it were innate of relativism, relativism would cease to be relative.
Yes it is a matter of personal perspective. I don't think the truth is external from the context and perspective of individualls. It is merley a tool for us to excell our experience. And my rational conclusion is that mindnumbing homogenity of thought and limitig laws imposed by institutions that want to maintain powerstructures isn't beneficial for the larg majority of people. The probability of ever getting to enjoy the power set up by institutions and cultures is very small if we look at the chance of ever getting the opportunities to rise to the top for every single human being. If I was capable maybe I would have another perspective, by I doubt it. so I maintain the idea of increasing the liberty of every one and limiting it for the powerfull. And this applies to art as well. No one should decide what should be the truth that art propagates, maybe I will miss out on somthing that really resonates with me or gives insight in to others peoples realties which would make me more mature and understanding hopefully.
>Nihilism is the logical conclusion of relativism.
Yes, if you are willing to stick to your principles and abandone every driving force, and in principle kill yourself, I would consider that nihilism. Otherwise you just succumb to the context and still live a life with meaning, telling yourself meaningless platitudes like: "nothing has value", To me it sounds like one would develop really weak character through that behaviour.
