You can start at any age and gitgud, you're only a failure if you die before gittinggud.

>>2353239
You're only a failure if you outright quit

>>2353242
>>2353243
i totally understand your point, but i feel like is a cheat answer, like, if i see a guy, in his 50's working a shit job trying to sell his art on the side and is just not enough to quit the job he hates, then something is not going well, or something just isn't going anywhere at all. to me that's failure.
in my opinion 50 is a very big number, i feel like 25/26 is my year to check out, like i'm giving it all fully commited to the craft until i reach check out year, i really don't see my self going through anymore of this longer than that

>>2353245
i'm really interested in other people opinions, specially in the ones of people that can relate at least a little bit, i don't really know why, maybe is a mental placebo or something, i don't know

>>2353239

You need to sort your life and possibly get a professional help, not to think about being failure or not at art.

I'm into drawing and art as a hobby, started now at 26. Maybe I'll never be good or successful, but it's for me. I know lots of people who started late in life in various disciplines and ultimately became professionals and had some successes in the field. Heh, I even know about one guy who at late second half od 50s or at the beginning of 60s decided to go into medicine because it always interested him, so he finished medicine studies and became a surgeon. People were so shocked that he is old and gets a starting salary that they promoted him anyway and were treating him with respect as if he was very experienced doctor.

Ok, but maybe less funny examples - Erdos, famous mathematician, really peaked after his 30s. Stefan Banach, polish mathematician, grew up in foster family and was doing mathematics on his own, never studied it in university, he had just a luck to be overheard by other mathematician when he was in his late 20s and walking through park discussing integrals with other guy. Similar think with logician Tarski, he studied biology until he wasn't convinced to drop off and go into philosophy.

You don't know what will happen to you and how your life will go. Maybe you'll never be successful, maybe suddenly you'll become some world-class biochemist or something like that. Point is - if you feel you have fucked up life, change it. Don't blame art for your failures though. It's just you and your bad approach to doing things.

>>2353245
A 50 year old will naturally live to about 75. He has 25 years to get good, so it's a waste to quit.

"You only fail when you quit" isn't supposed to make you feel good, it's a truth based on the value of time. Mist people can't really fathom how much time left they really have to do what they wanted to do. It makes no sense to quit at 25 and throw away 50 years of chances unless there is a pain that outweighs the value of that time. Impatience doesn't count as pain, so you that suicide is just gonna be a waste.

That is like selling all your stocks today, just because the DOW is a little lower, even though you're not going to retire for decades. It doesn't make sense.

>>2353239
And here I made a decision not to kill myself until I'm finally satisfied with my art. It gives me a reason to keep going.

OP i relate to you almost 100%. The only thing i care about is art, i will never have a real job, money or love in my life again. i see myself as a complete failure at everything not related to my artwork. And even if I attain all my goals with art I will still end up killing myself, there is truly no cure. The biggest difference is that I dont tie my personal goals at being "succesful" at art. Being paid for it requires not only a lot of talent, hardwork and vision, but also a LOT of luck, networking and business know how, and I dont have those. My goal is to simply make good art. The pure act of seeing my progression, admiring all of my past work and planning new ones, or the pure satisfaction of a freshly completed piece, thats what I live for. The goal is to make good art and get better, period. If success comes along the way that is great but im not Holding out for it. Dont put expectations into things you cant control, you will come out sorely disappointed.

>>2353255
i'm not blaming art, if any i give thanks to it every day, it kept me going. i've tried seeking help, many times since i was younger, i stand by my desition, i understand anything can happen i know that, is just that i reached something, a level of just not caring anymore that leaves me with a void that sucks everything.
thanks for the words though, i like reading this kind of stuff, i appreciate it a lot

>>2353260
I dunno, see how you feel

>>2353264
dude it sucks so bad, and, like it doesn't really have to be succes, but a signal something that i'm going the right way, it's still the same shit that i can't control that'll keep bringing me down with disapointment, i guess that's one of my many flaws

>>2353239
50

>>2353279
"going the right way" that sounds so fucking retarded pretend i didn't say that

>>2353245
lol i'm 26 and just started gitting gud, i'll check out at 80...heart attack from future coke + future hookers

>>2353239
live and keep trying: odds of failure < 100%
don't give yourself a chance and kill yourself: odds of failure = 100%
if you really care about succeeding, you'll stick to the better odds.

> those tipe of guys that just keep on trying, and failing, and failing, and they grow old and keep failing, and they are just fucking stucked, in a boring, humilliating fucking painful routine.
Unfortunately, this kind of pain is the destiny of many men who have nowhere to go and no one to turn to for comfort. There is no escape but death. But I feel it is more humiliating to kill yourself before time robs you of your ability than it is to keep eating the pain and asking for more as a big 'FUCK YOU' to the sadistic fates. I feel it is more humiliating to give up than it is to be the type of guy who keeps trying till the end.

even if I die alone, I will die more peacefully knowing I tried my best even though I didn't succeed.

>>2353239
Your entire story seems like one I would write a couple years ago.
Can I make a couple questions?
Besides art, how stressful is your work, if you have one? If you have one, do you have a level of social interaction there?
How is your social life, in general?
How is your study schedule in art? Are you doing any finished works lately or solely studying?
I will appreciate your answers.

edgy

I thought about suicide when it came to thinking about my future career, I love art and I want to do it for the rest of my life. I thought of killing myself if things didn't go down right and my life becomes a shithole. I don't know where I stand on this right now, so you and I op, let's make this shit happen, to save our lives. Now get working and stop posting on 4chan.

>>2353239
>tl;drl at wich age do you think someone is a failure in art?
At the age when they give up.

Leonardo was 46 when he "made it."

Stop dwelling on negative shit, it'll only bring you down.

>>2353310
sure.
I work a night shift 12 hours a day, every day including sundays and festive days (i have 36 hours free, since i'm covered by another guy doing the same shift as me, let's say that if i enter work a monday at 7pm i get out tuesday 7am and i don't go back to work until wednesday 7pm, unless i have to cover the other guy). social interaction is pretty much non existent, i'm alone all night at the office, and i only talk to clients when they call me for something, or to ask permission to move a truck, or because a vehicle was stolen, then i call the police to let them know, if a truck was stolen say 6:59 and my replacement isn't here, then i have to stay until the event is over, wich can take hours, i have to do that even if my replacement has arrived. the big upside is that at 2 to 4 or 5am almost nobody calls, and it gives me time to study, and the 36 free hours make it flexible. is a bit stressful though, but i'm sure there are worst jobs. is minimum wage.
my social life is not really that bad, i have friends, but i do feel disconected from them most of the time, we party, we hang out, but sometimes it's just empty you know? i do however have a best friends, i know him for almost 15 years and it kinda is the best thing that ever happened to me, like he's a great person, but i'll never say to any of them what my plans are, they'll just say that i should stop talking like that, or that i won't do it, that they understand when they really don't, or just worry. i don't want that. sex life is non existent for like a year now, last time i went to a prostitute, hated it, and felt like shit afterwards, it was a new low for me.
Cont.

>>2353239
Welcome to /ic/, you're welcome to visit /fit/ and /r9k/ if you want extra suffering with your despair.

You didn't answered yet about your life in art, but what you said about the other aspects may be sufficent. First of all, if you want to pursue your dreams, you need quality of life. By that I mean you need meaningful relationships, a job that doesn't rip the guts of you or leave you depressive about life and be at least ok about yourself. I, too, a couple years ago was at a work that leaved me completely alone for larger periods of time in a very repetitive task, and my social life was so meaningless that some times I just prefered stay alone at home than doing things I doesn't really want to do just to be part of the group, with people that couldn't care less about me. I will cut the details about these two things but believe me, reading what you write about yourself I can say that I understand you.
Unlike you, I didn't said something like "if I don't acomplish that goal by age x, I will kill myself". Instead, I said to myself: "If I end up this year living this same life again, I will kill myself". I wrote this on my desk, and ended up looking at it everyday, knowing that something wasn't doing really well, besides the tiny moments of joy that happens sometimes. And if my life don't was going well, my study in art, too.
So I just done one simply thing: I searched for a another job, a normal one, and pursued other people to intereact with. Some that was at art too, either music or other things. People that I would identify with.

>>2356035
wouldn't do a larger answer because the inner details won't matter too much. If you need to know them, ask me and I say. But the real message that I'm trying to tell is that if you want to be a good artist, you need to think about your life first. I'ts romantic to think about you like a Van Gogh that transforms the inner pain into expressiosm or a Kurt Cobain that write music with guts and inner hate, but to be a good artist, you doens't need to make life itself a pain. You can think about yourself like someome who have strange toughts, a misfit, someome unique, different, and this is great, but feeling shit about yourself insn't a pre requisite for being a good artist. Look at what let you down in life and change it.

>>2356036
Sorry for so many typos.

Life is hard OP. It'll beat you and kick you to the ground till you give up. You'll either get beaten and beaten and keep getting back up every time and continuing eventually getting to the door of success, battered and bruised maybe, suffered losses maybe, many regrets maybe, but you'll eventually achieve ultimate success. Or you'll succumb to the pressure and that is true failure.

Life works simply, if you do your due diligence then you'll reap the fruits of the insurance that life made from hard work and determination. Every line, every sketch, every brush stroke is a stepping piece to your ultimate success.

Of course, there are people in their 50s that fucking suck, and its because they never actively tried to open their way of thinking, they weren't exposed to methods of learn, rendering, they never made contacts with other artists to learn from them. They never did studies, they never knew how to improve.

Don't be them, actively try to improve yourself.

>>2353239

op you need to specify on your goals. because making money with art and getting good at art / making good art are two completely different things. they are vaguely related at best.

i too will kill myself if i don't make it, as i have thrown all my eggs in the art basket. i'm not even kidding.

>>2356052
>>2353239

also

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sean-cooper-mortgage-debt-1.3402026

>Not wanting to face a lifetime of debt, Cooper sacrificed three years of his life to pay down a $255,000 mortgage on a $425,000 Toronto home he bought in 2012.

> He worked up to 100 hours a week at three jobs: pension analyst; financial writer; and supermarket clerk. Naturally, the bachelor's social life suffered. Cooper also lived like a pauper, maintaining a strict budget and residing in the basement so he could collect rent on the rest of his house.

>"It could be interpreted that the finger is being pointed at me. Why am I not working 100 hours a week?"

>>2353239
Is OP role-playing Van Gogh? If so, brilliant thread m8.

Otherwise OP, look to Van Gogh as why you shouldn't kill yourself. He robbed the world of years of his work, work that ended up enormously influential. There are people who found art as something they love and pursued it as employment, inspired initially by his work. Their lives are immesurably better for his contributions, not his death.

Don't focus on success. Focus on Gittin' Gud.

>>2353245
read james altucher's posts, like this one: https://jamesaltucher.quora.com/The-Ultimate-Cheat-Sheet-to-Reinvent-Yourself

but his posts in general. i think you'd find it interesting