I have a question for you guys interested in / working in animation.
I'm someone who is facing a crisis because he's realizing that his favorite forms of art (literature, especially poetry) are fucking dead. I've been paralyzed over the past few days and even took up garbage such as video games again because I feel powerless -- nobody will ever care about high literature ever again. Nobody hardly cares about film anymore, and theatre/film in the tradition of Welles or Fassbinder was my second option. I even have screenplays/poems ready to send out to magazines / cheap script vendors and I've just lost the will to do it.
Cutting the crap: when I was about fifteen or sixteen I wanted to be an animator after watching some Bakshi films. Unfortunately by 17 I got more into literature and poetry, and stopped drawing entirely. I see animation as a way back into relevancy, and I would love to imbue some projects with inspiration from actual literature / poetry. For example, a short animated rendition of some of Joyce's Dubliners stories or an animated spoof of Sidney's Astrophil and Stella sonnet sequence. I think it could be neat and cute.
I'm not starting from the ground zero pits, but I'm not exactly on ground level either. I'm rereading/restudying loomis for the first time in 3 years. I'm turning 20 in a few days, and I want to, by then, have some idea what I want to be in life.
Okay I'm just depressed and maudlin, so excuse all that crap, but if I work a clean 30 hours a week on intense studies for a few years, and then transition to animation, will I be walking into a situation where I can actually have a shot at producing some actual animated series or shorts that might draw any attention? What is the job market like right now? Is this a garbage idea? Is there any room for any actually inspired animation anymore? Is it all commercialized?
Pic related, not a good show but I love the art I suppose.
>>2325218
continued:
this is the first thing I drew last week before finals hit and I had to draw my attention away (whewww!) for a while to pass my classes. Awful awful awful study of ezra pound. So when I say I'm not a total beginner, I at least understand that I've got to work on the fundamentals, and I know where to start. I just haven't started.
So maybe I am on ground zero.
Anyways, questions in the OP still stand.
>>2325222
continued:
another of my first study sessions again. I really have no idea where to go forward. I'm reading loomis and constructing all the heads and bodies like crazy but I don't see much of a path yet.
Final post from OP in the rant until someone else posts. Sorry if this should have all gone into a beginner thread.
>>2325222
I sent you files 3 weeks ago and you haven't changed anything. Stop being a aspy fucking retard and work on your stuff.
>>2325230
that's because I haven't drawn in the (one and a half) weeks because I was dangerously low in one of my class grades and I needed an A on my final in said class before moving onwards. The pic is old because I haven't had a minute to breath or draw since then. No need to be so abrasive.
I already know how to generally get better, and I know it'll happen if I work correctly and intelligently: when I say I have no idea of a "path", I have no idea what my goals are, what they should be, etc. I have no idea if my animation idea is garbage. I have no idea if jumping back into art is a good idea.
That's what the thread is about. The two drawing pics were just to show I've at least started kek.
>>2325233
okay I made a shit thread, I'll try to clarify down to a single question:
Most of the cartoons I see now are mindless and awful, or commercial shit like Star Wars, or fantasy shit, or basically anything that's an anathema to my potential goals.
Am I getting into art, especially for the long-term goal of animation, for the wrong reasons?
>>2325233
You have time to type out some asinine story about how poetry is dead but you can't find the time to draw? Suck my fucking dick you weeb.
You think 30 hrs is going to get you good? Do you even know what it takes to work in this industry? You think just because you're smart you're going to magically figure out how to "get gud" in a small time frame because you think you're at a higher intelligence than everyone else around you, but you aren't willing to put in the hours to get better at this.
Animation is commercialized. Concept art is commercialized. Modelling is commercialized. The entire point of the industry is for commercial use. If you think anything else, you should go get that McDonalds management position the next time you pick yourself up some food.
You haven't started shit. Any may may can draw two pages of work and say they're on their way to becoming a Pokemon master. Come back when you've actually spent longer than 10 hrs on something that isn't complete trash.
>>2325223
Before I clicked on the thumbnail I thought it was a bunch of dicks
>>2325238
>You think 30 hrs is going to get you good?
I have no fucking idea. How many hours do you work a week? I assume well more than 40? I'm just curious so I can set a schedule to start again tonight now that finals are over.
> Do you even know what it takes to work in this industry?
No, and it should be clear I'm absolutely clueless. I just know that I want to get good and I don't like the direction of the industry.
> You think just because you're smart .. .
I never implied that, I said I know there's a path and now that finals are over I'm considering taking it if it means I have a shot to not end up as some inbetween frame-artist for some batman or adventure time garbage.
> The entire point of the industry is for commercial use.
that doesn't even touch on my question
> You haven't started shit.
I am rather aware of that if you read my posts. What's clinging to your scrotum? I fucking know I'm 3 days worth into a decades-long journey, I'm not asking about that or assuming anything about it. I'm shit, I haven't done shit, got it, no news.
If the thread is retarded, which I'm aware it is because I'm just totally depressed and self-indulgent right now, you don't need to get your cock in a knot over it. So what about my actual questions?
>>2325244
anyways whatever making this thread was an awful idea. I really have no idea what I'm doing right now. I'd enjoy it if you'd all let this be the last post in my garbage thread and let it sage to the bottom. Thanks
>>2325244
If you don't want to spend a decade on this, then you're going to have to put in 8 hrs a day on concentrated studying for two to three years. Animation is dead in the water, that was exactly where I tried to enter then realized that they are underpaid artists in the States and it's a waste of effort to go into animation unless you want to work at Dreamworks or Pixar. If you want to work, you should see it as work. Put all your personal work aside and focus on what you need to do, which is become proficient enough in one skill so much that someone will hire you in that one skill. After that, you can start to work on other positions while holding that job.
>>2325218
>(literature, especially poetry) are fucking dead
Nope, but same thing like art, takes a lot of time and it's probably more niche than it was in the past. People still care about it but theatre and poetry isn't movies and games
>animation is dead
More or less true, 3D is basically the only thing that exists now, unless you want to work on anime or something
>I'm turning 20 in a few days, and I want to, by then, have some idea what I want to be in life.
Anyway, if you want to make a living doing art there's a lot of things you can do, and it's something you'll have to think about on your own. Even if it takes a lot of time making art, if you like it, it's very rewarding. Good luck.
>>2325270
This answers my questions rather cleanly. Seems animation is more of a daydream and less of what I'm up for doing. The 8 hours a day was the figure I was looking for because I can, in college, spend maybe 10 hours total a day on not-schoolwork, and that would leave me 2 hours a day for reading or writing.
I suppose that was what I was asking, and I suppose this answers it. Appreciate the post. Looks like it might not be for me.
>>2325275
> 3D is basically the only thing that exists now
Well that's depressing. I've watched maybe 20 minutes of anime in my life so I have zero affinity for that.
> Good luck.
Appreciate it. I suppose it's a quarterlife crisis. I was very confident in what I as doing (reading/writing relentlessly all day, moving slowly into film) until Star Wars came out and I realized that anything I do will be irrelevant. And that was even with me realizing months ago that poetry was "dead" (in the sense you said) and that I was okay with it, and was seriously considering pulling a Robert Lax and becoming some sort of hermit-poet. So yes, quarter life crisis when I realized I'm at the age where if I don't start taking art seriously for many many many hours a day, it's my last shot.
Well, I'll tack on one more question before I slump off again, since the saging didn't work and I got some answers.
How viable is something like YouTube for independent animation? That is, for the ideas I sparked in the OP?
Promise this is the last post.
>>2325304
It's only viable if you produce something watchable. You seems kinda pretentious. If you're planning to recreate some gay modernist literature into another medium it probably won''t get you anywhere. It's just not appealing anymore.
>>2325314
good point, you're right, the youtube audience probably won't give a shit about anything I'd be interested in making.
Guess I'll just shuffle back over to poetry and film again. I don't enjoy art as much as those, might as well just do what I like and I'm good at. Thanks guys. Solved my crisis I suppose.
>>2325322
>>2325328
[spoiler]I don't get it, but if you were an above poster, thanks anyways[/spoiler]
>>2325322
Damn dude that's depressing. I only come on /ic/ to bait people. I was hoping you'd just get angry, or call me a retard.
>>2325353
kek the only thing I'm angry with is my inability to find peace with a life plan. Kind of wishing I was sixteen again and had it all figured out like I did then. Wish we didn't live in such a shitty consumerist culture, and that poetry was read by a good 20 or more percent of the adult population.
Why would I be mad at someone saying the truth, even if it's bait? The more truths I find the more closure I figure.
>>2325322
welp that's another potentially good artist gone, good job /ic/
>>2325367
Op here I should stop looking at this thread, it's posts like these that make me still want to fucking do animation. christ I'm a mess I have no idea what I want to fucking do in life fuuuuck
nothing I actually want to do in life is viable
>>2325374
Just let this die and go focus on actually getting shit done.
>>2325218
go to youtube and type this in the search: How to write a screenplay
>omg this is exactly what I needed, wowey thanks interweps
>>2325243
That wouldve been better though.
>>2325374
well you whine like a pro so maybe you could become a sommelier?
>>2325218
You seem immensely shallow and self-important. The fact that you ended your post by claiming that you love the horrid shit in that picture is just... fuck. I don't even know how to phrase my disgust.
>>2327248
he's self-centered.
>>2325270
>8 hrs a day
stop perpetuating that myth already. Just draw for 3 to 4 hours and be conscious of art throughout the rest of the day (make observations, take some time to take in new visual information when you come across it, etc). Drawing for 8 hours a day is just going to turn you into a miserable piece of shit, and the last 4 hours won't stick to your brain no matter what you do.
>>2327409
Oh? Where do you work, anon?
>>2327486
I'm not a professional artist. If you think that means that you can disregard what I'm saying, fine. My observation on learning is a fairly general on. The idea that you get to a higher level more quickly by grinding for 8 hours a day is true if you're playing WoW, because your avatar gains exp consistently as long as you keep working, but people aren't videogame characters. You can't concentrate on learning a single task for 8 hours a day. Your brain doesn't have the capacity to take in and organize that much new information concerning a single task in one go, so your 'exp gain' decreases drastically at a certain point.
This is also why it's not productive to cut down on sleep. You're only depriving your brain of the time it needs to process the information it's taken in over the course of the day.
By the way, even if I were a professional artist, what reason could that kind of person possibly have for associating themselves with 4chan at this point? The internet isn't the secrit club it used to be anymore and public image has become pretty important if you want to be successful. Also /ic/ generally antagonizes anyone who is successful unless their work is absolutely flawless. People like Algenpfleger and Tehmeh get more hate than anything else, and the moment they post a painting with fucked up anatomy or perspectives you can bet someone on /ic/ will start a thread just to shitpost about it.
>>2327799
Oh man. When I'll be professional/semifamous, im totally gona put little anatomy flaws in some pics.
Jew know it generates more discussion about the art. All popularity is good
>>2327799
All I saw was, "I don't know what I'm talking about".
>>2327866
why does Qui Gon up there look so much like this jew.
>>2325237
If You want it to be broadcast un tv, yes.
>>2325374
Welcome to reality, it's not nice, but it's all we got. You can make peace owith it or whine for the rest of your life. Or, if you really have the guts, try to create your own path and most likely fail (like there's a 99.9% probability of it happening) but if you don't kudos, you'll be remember for a long time... Or not, reality is one hell of an unpredictable bitch.
>>2328256
Because Jesus was a jew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN8Kd3zR_mE
If you want to create something your pretentious ass finds meaningful then go ahead and do it. Don Hertzfeldt (link related)is the only person to have won Sundance's Best Animated Short twice. And his films consists of fucking stick figures. And he has a decade career of doing his own shit.
You scrubs probably don't even know that there's an international community of independent animation and animators making films every year. I bet the majority of you fucks never went to a film festival or know how viable they are. Art isn't dead. You're just don't know where to look.
Don't listen to the fags of /ic/.Its full of miserable fucks who only want you to be miserable with them. We live in a time where you can literally sit on your ass and record yourself playing games and become a millionaire for it( http://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-star-plays-videogames-earns-4-million-a-year-1402939896 ) If that's possibly. Surely you can make a living off of doing your own shit.
So shut up and get to work.
https://vimeo.com/117725307
Also another thing I thought your pretentious ass might like. An animated short based around Kakfa's "Before The Law" parable from his book "The Trial"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IUX0Qy-IDM
Here's an actual short from Don Hertzfeldt that won him several awards and recognition. Part 1 of a three part trilogy.
>>2325237
>Most of the cartoons I see now are mindless and awful, or commercial shit like Star Wars, or fantasy shit, or basically anything that's an anathema to my potential goals.
look at this mature fucking 19 year old who thinks he knows more about television than people who create those shows.
my number one advice to you would be humility. you sound like an insufferable cunt.
forget everything you think you know. take some online art classes. read, listen to podcasts, broaden your knowledge if you don't have a direction.
if you want to make short films and be an ~~artist~~ with a ~~~~vision~~~~ which is the vibe i'm getting from this uncomfortable thread, look for grants. the government will pay you to make shit if they like what they see.
if you don't like what's being made, and you don't love the craft and the process of making animation, then i wouldn't really recommend you to try to work in the industry. i mean by all means if you get to a skill level where you're able to work at a studio, which in all honesty isn't super difficult if you're okay with working at a small studio that makes shitty shows, try working at one for a while. you might end up liking it. there's a lot of good that comes with a studio position such as a steady income, peers you can grow with and bounce ideas off of, friends, maybe even a sense of family and belonging i don't know.
otherwise look into illustration. i'm honestly unsure of what it is you want to do. if it's story telling, comics are a great medium. if you want to make innovative pieces that might not necessarily have a story behind them, you might enjoy fine art. i am particularly interested in sculpture myself, even though i study animation.
anyways that's the end of my rant i'd be happy to try to answer any questions you might have if you just drop the fucking pretenses and talk like a person.
>>2325374
why do youngfags think life ends at 30?
you can do all of those things you want, stupid fag, just try not to starve while still having free time
>>2331383
>We live in a time where you can literally sit on your ass and record yourself playing games and become a millionaire for it
Becoming a successful youtube lets player is a far more realistic career than making a living off of pretentious animated shorts, simply because the audience that watches lets plays is about 10 million times bigger than the audience that goes to some hipster film festivals.
You can obviously always name some outliers who became successful regardless, but that's not an argument you fucking moron. Every year there are hundreds of Gobelins students who make more meaningful and better artsy shorts as graduation projects than you will ever make in your entire life as self taught animator and that's just the start of their career before they get hired by big studios.
>>2331411
/tv/ fag here. Film Festivals are totally viable if you're an indie film maker. Its where you go to network, showcase, and make connections. Adding to what >>2331383 with things like Patreon and Kickstarter. You can live off of literally doing what you love and be supported directly by your audience. Sure its not as easy as "Make a Patreon account and bank" but its defiantly doable. You just have to stop being a bitch and work at it.
>>2331411
> Every year there are hundreds of Gobelins students who make more meaningful and better artsy shorts as graduation projects than you will ever make in your entire life as self taught animator and that's just the start of their career before they get hired by big studios.
You don't need to be a bigshot prodigy working at Disney to garnet success or even make quality films. I just saw that "Its Such a Beautiful Day" movie the other anon promoted and I thought it was the most beautiful thing I have seen in a long while. And the art is nowhere near as good as these top tier "Loo-mees" animators. But you don't need that to invoke a feeling or grasp your audience. And if I were you. I'd defiantly take advantage of the hipsters that'll ignore your shitty art and think it's "more poetic that way". And bank on those motherfuckers. There's defiantly a world community of them and can be your audience that will support you. Love them or hate them.
>>2325353
You reap what you sow. There's a bright side to all of this though: you're only capable of destroying, not creating.
>>2331383
>guys just do it, live ur dreaams xD lmao.
>>2331476
I'm all for living your dream and taking risks, but you still have to have some degree of realistic expectations. Did you read OP's post? He's a 20 year old guy who has no experience whatsoever and is trying to become a self-taught animator. Do you really think that has a realistic future just because there are some guys who managed to make it in the indie circle by animating stick figures? Many highly skilled animation students are already struggling to find work and are fighting over good studio positions.
If the indie film festival scene offered realistic career opportunities, it would be flooded with unemployed, highly skilled animation graduates who didn't make the cut to work for the big studios.
Yeah no shit it might not work out. Its not a guarantee thing. Nothing is. I'm just saying its not an impossble fleat not worth risking towards. Or course this depends on whether you're doing it for the art or for success. The guys who make their indie films work their asses off and more just to finish a scene in a film that might not even be worth a shit to anyone but themselves. Taking up day jobs to help support themselves and fund their projects. That's the extent they're willing to go not for the money. But for the artform. Success is a self conscious thing. So yeah I forgot to add that your ass will be working hard as shit if you go this route and in the end you might never be the next Ralph Baksi or Glen Keen or even be somewhat significant at all. I should have added that you have to be in love with the craft in order to be content with all that possible failure as well as you might not find a bit of success at all no matter how hard you work. But that shouldn't matter to you if all you care about is making your own films.
>>2331819
Yes this might be a crazy mentality and the only people who might agree with me are the crazy motherfuckers who masturbate to framed posters of classic Disney inbetweens on the wall. But this is the mentality OP is gonna have to have if he's trying to be a self taught animator in his 20s.
>>2325218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt8VYOfr8To
>>2331915
Are you a girl?
>>2331921
Yes <3 :3
>any of that commercial shit
Just one question: How do you plan on not starving? I'm sorry to tell you this but if you don't do things responding to the market you're not going to get any attention. Maybe the people who made Star Wars are not expressing their personal feelings and doing original things, but they are able to live off of that.
It's your choice, either become an illustrator or animator for other people, or be a starving artist who goes against "mainstream" trends.
>>2331819
>I should have added that you have to be in love with the craft in order to be content with all that possible failure
How can anyone who is content with creating some stick figure hipster shit be in love with the craft of animation? Anyone who genuinely loves animation will want to become as good as possible at it and the only way to do so is to work professionally at a studio with other animators.
>>2332584
Picasso's paintings look like shit but people will still suck his dick hundreds of years later. I can say Josef Albers have no love for paintings since all his shit is just squares on top of squares.
Have you seen his shorts? I recommend "Its Such a Beautiful Day". Its on Netflix.
Also he's not just shiting out flash stick figure animations he completed in 5 minutes. He incorporates photography with his animations and records his animations via camera. His "Meaning of Life"™ short took him 4 years to finish.
>No shit it takes him a long ass time. He's being a poverty hipster
Regardless he made an audience through his hipster stick figures and is more successful with his dick figures than /ic/ is with their constant need to grind out 69+hours a week of Loomis. Thinking they have to be the best before they can move on to actually starting shit.
>>2332554
I don't know why "selling out" is such a sin to these kids. Smart artists sell out and do commercial shit to help fund their personal personal if they want to do personal projects. Because face it, you're not gonna make shit doing your own shit and its always better to have something to fall back on.
http://www.reallusion.com/crazytalk/default.html
A pretty cool program I got a few years ago,but never had the time to explore. It seems versatile enough to encompass any artistic vision you might have,and only imagination can limit your ambitions.
>>2332639
Exactly. And let's face it, working for big IPs can be cool. I'd have loved to work in Star Wars.
