>>2319842
Partially true. Mostly false.
the common thing you need for both is loomis
Someone post the complimentary counter image, I never saved it.
Mostly true.
Anime is a stylization, so it make sense that an understanding of "real" art would be beneficial in construction. You don't need it, but you'd be much better off for it if you want to be any good.
completely wrong
I can draw anime relatively good and I never drew a single realistic image.
>>2319848
ur probably a shit artist m8
>>2319849
you probably can't even draw senpai lmao
>>2319848
Then you probably cannot draw anime that well. I mean, I can be wrong and you're some anime prodigy but the most likely scenario is that you'll stay at being "relatively good" for the rest of your life.
I'm not saying that realistic images are more important but anime depends on then quite a lot in the same way that, even western stylized artwork gets a lot from anime. The more you know about different artstyles, the better you are as an artist in general.
>>2319845
got u senpai
>>2319842
Don't tell me you're from that /aco/ tutorial board, that shit was some real cancer >>>/aco/255177
>>2319854
>>2319848
Post your work or piss of
>>2319861
post yours first fag
>>2319863
Head I did from memory.
Now show me your Yoshiyuki Sadamoto level weeb art.
>>2319865
Checkmate.
>>2319858
>still mad that Teal is infinitely better than you and knows more about anatomy and perspective than you ever will.
Are you that one butthurt guy who once tried to redline teals redlines and then everyone laughed at you?
>>2319881
I have no idea who Teal is, I haven't been on /ic/ in a couple weeks.
I never said I was good, I only did it so >>2319848 would post his, but it looks like he's too embarrassed by his own work.
>>2319842
Do people seriously believe that the anime artist on the left could actually draw an academic figure drawing of that quality?
Obviously you need proper understanding of the fundamentals for anime, but you sure as hell don't need to be top russian academy tier to draw stupid weeb shit like what is shown on the left.
>>2319886
Teal used to be a regular on /ic/ a year or so ago before a bunch of jealous faggots made him leave. He is the one who did the redlines that were posted in that tutorial thread you linked and called cancerous. So I am assuming you think he's not a very good artist. Care to post your art, friend? If >>2319865 is your art, then you are not even close to Teals level yet.
>>2319889
No I think that Simon guy is great, I was calling the realism elitists cancerous. And yeah I did that pic
>>2319887
it's a joke you goof
>>2319842
A ton of anime is done with shoddy technique and anatomy, but is overlooked because it's not easily recognizable as an actual human being. When rendered realistically, any anatomy errors are extremely apparent and immediately visible, while animeme style can slide with a ton of errors. So yes, you need to understand anatomy to draw anime, but you don't need to know it that well.
>>2319848
Really? Then post your work, faggot.
>>2319896
It's a joke with a lot of truth to it though. The people claiming otherwise are just autistic.
>hurr it's not the same artist!
Unless you're a rubber hose animator from the early 1900's or a photobasher you need to understand anatomy, proportions and the landmarks of the body. To do that you have to read about them and study them by drawing them a lot, producing academic style drawings in the process. Maybe not to the level of a top Russian painter-but academic nonetheless.
it's all about copying or learning how to see
animu is much easier because of simpler shapes and such
but drawing realism first helps you to copy/know the shapes better
overall yes and no
>>2319865
that's more weeboo than realistic.
>>2319886
you suck teal's baby-dick every week in /aco/
>>2319865
>mfw the anon hasnt posted his/her work
dude you won, /ic/ is just a shit hole
>>2319842
Anybody got the pic from the right in full res? It looks good enough to save as ref.
>>2319842
Construction is important, but you don't need to be able to do full photorealistic to create simple art.
More important than being "able" to do a style or drawing is development of skills in general. People get too wrapped up into styles or "3 easy steps to draw X" that they can't be bothered to practice the skills to do more than photocopy three steps to draw an identical copy.
Then again, some anime artists would benefit from knowledge of basic anatomy.
>>2319881
senpai... stop worshiping this guy. Dont get me wrong, he isnt bad, but he isnt as good as you make him out to be. He isnt some kind of weeb art god. He is just a decent pedo artist. Relax with your dick sucking please.
I mean technically you can draw stylized works without ever having to draw realism, its just kind of hard because in order to draw stylized shit correctly you have to understand what goes where and why it goes there and whats happening when people remove/emphasize certain things.
you can do it all in your head and just understand things mentally without ever having to draw it, but its a lot harder to do that way.
>>2319842
>>2319856
>>2319842
fedora tipping meme shit from faggots who can do neither
>>2320294
what is this garbage handwriting
>>2319865
lol you legitimately think youre good when youre just doing digital art. Try painting anybody can do what you just drew.
Bit of truth to it, but it's not necessarily always true.
>>2320294
>1) This requires more time and knowledge
true
>2) while this require higher draughtsmanship, control, elegance
Definitely not true
>and creative decision
Not true either. In both cases that depends on if you are designing something from imagination.
>>2320308
>guy who can do it tells you and shows you
>even explains it
>IT'S NOT TRUE
>don't even say why
This is why /ic/ is a joke. Get out while you can, OP.
>>2320317
So you were trying to generalize through an anecdote. Even more retarded of you. I feel sorry for you if you had to struggle that much to make the image on the right compared to the left. There's no mystery to using line weight, replacing part of the anatomy with symbol drawing and then apply over polish to make it shiny.
But if the left one is drawn from observation, as it apparently wasn't just a generic example then it's not really that good either.
>>2320330
I recognize you from other threads. You're that shitposter who thinks that he's so good at arguing, just to say something contrarian. Back in my day we used to call you drama queens. People like you come and go when they finally mature.
>>2320317
What >>2320308 said isn't wrong though. The ability to draw anime style symbols that lessen the dimensions of the face and show less overall form does not take higher draughtmanship, control, or elegance. That is nothing but projection on Teal's part. In other words, it's a load of shit and the reason why internet based weeb smut artists have no real business giving advice. They aren't qualified. What it's really called is a shortcut. Others would call it lazy depending on the stylization choice. It's a simplification of information. The only thing needed for stylization is creative design. That's it. But since you don't know any better, you take the word of any artist who's work you like as gospel because you're the one who really doesn't know anything at all.
>>2319842
Being able to do the right doesn't mean you will be able to do the left.
Stylization requires knowledge of design, aesthetics and visual communication, anatomy is not enough and is why most renderfags ultimatedly fail at it.
>>2320344
>I recognize you from other threads.
That's right anon. All those times your stupidity have been pointed out for you on 4chan, that has been me. All your deepest suspicions about how we are out to get you, they are true.
>>2320353
your jelly is showing
>>2320354
Teal left because of one troll
More than likely you are that very same troll
>>2320385
Let me tell you a secret. I don't even know who this Teal is. And when you say something stupid then people pointing it out are not "trolls".
>>2320298
Better than yours, especially since the dude is Japanese and understand English better than you do.
>>2320404
>All these projections.
I like how you had to throw the irrelevant "Japanese" comment in there like some weebo faggot.
>>2320371
>jelly
No one is jelly. The idea that stylization that deals with simplification and showing less information takes higher draughtmanship, control, and elegance is borderline autistic and something only weebs who praise generic weeb shit would say. Teal can draw but he can't teach for shit and he's not a master. Just because you're decent at something doesn't mean you're good at teaching it to others.
>>2319842
Its pretty true.
>>2320345
Anime isnt Symbols, its shapes, you moron
>>2320428
You mean the fact that english is his second language. On the other hand just mentioning"Japanese" to you seems to send you into I'm-Literally-Shaking-Right-Now level triggers.
Anime is trash.
>>2320531
I don't think the post you quote says anything like that. Why did somebody's critique of a handwriting make the other guy go all defensive and bring up how awesome the writer is and that he's Japanese? None of that changes that it is a shitty handwriting. >>2320428
is right about a whole lot of projecting going on here.
>>2320485
Then why can't you create attractive stylization, if it's so simple?
This board is full of fucking morons.
>>2320538
it's the one troll that's doing all this
Drawing realistically doesn't mean anything, you could just be doing straight-up copying using 2d measuring methods and not actually be dissecting necessary information for drawing stylized stuff. If you wanna be good at drawing cartoons and anime, you gotta understand gesture, proportion, anatomy, design and perspective. Generally speaking though, you probably should be able to draw fairly realistically if you do any sort of animation/cartoon/anime stuff.
>>2320810
>If you wanna be good at drawing cartoons and anime, you gotta understand gesture, proportion, anatomy, design and perspective.
This doesn't only apply to cartoons and anime. This applies to drawing appealing images in general from imagination, regardless of how stylized they are. This is why you're autistic.
I swear the weebs on 4chan are mentally ill.
>>2320848
I never said it only applied to cartoons and anime??
>>2319865
Rekt.
>>2320536
That's irrelevant to everything I just said in my post. Get your autism checked.
>>2319863
>On the internet nobody knows your art sucks balls if you don't post it.
>>2320848
jelly because japanese artists beat your ass and you still copy loomis like a slave without realizing that he's also just stylizing in his own way?
>>2320902
>all this baseless projection
>reaching this hard because you don't have a point.
4chan is an 18+ board.
>>2319842
You need to know proportions and perspective to draw both, but you don't need to be able to perfectly shade in pencil to draw anime. I'm honestly better at polishing a realistic portrait than I am at getting perfect animes.
>>2320869
How is it irrelevant if you say it's "easy/simple"? If it's so easy (to you) then you should be able to do it. If you can't then you have to admit that it's not easy. Anyone with a functional brain can deduce that, except you apparently.
>>2320538
bleh
/ic/ isnt really the best place to learn either way
or for receiving critique, most of the time someone will say something vague like "learn to draw" then another anon jumps agaisnt that and the whole thread turns into passive-aggressive arguing no matter what the thread
TLDR: IC's a shithole of people liking to argue for the sake of it and not actually drawing anything
>>2321125
/ic/ has only ever been good for the resource threads. This board it pretty worthless otherwise.
rather then continue with all this projecting, why not demonstrate the claims in each
i dont understand how weebo stuff reqiures higher draughtsmanship then say studio life drawing.
>>2321160
>he still lacks reading comprehension
>what is context?
>what are relative terms?
Are you done being a dumbass and projecting like a moron?
>>2321170
dude, you really are pathetic.
>>2321176
>called out for being an idiot
>y-you're pathetic!
Kill yourself.
>>2321187
wow bro, it took you quite some time to come up with that reply.
>>2319842
It's obviously false, since the pic on the left has a glaring mistake.
OP posted the wrong version, obv.
>>2319842
how does the red one's left leg work anyway. Or does she just have an extremely broad hip?
>>2319842
Simplified muscle groups and skeleton is enough knowledge.
>>2319842
Somewhat true. It's not that you need extensive knowledge of the figure to be able to draw those animu girls, you just need to know how to construct a drawing and have enough mileage to take the shortcuts needed for stylization. Once you know how to break something down into steps, you can literally draw anything. Rendering and detail is just up to how much time you want to spend polishing it, it's merely icing. I know I could draw the right hand side if I spent enough time on finishing detail, but I don't draw like that regularly, yet I'm fairly confident I could draw the left side without too much trouble. Personally though I think it would be harder for me to capture the left, imo it's easier to draw something more neutral than to capture and omit the necessary information and present it in an appealing way.
>>2321256
nippa~
Obviously this is not true at all.
>>2319915
It's a joke because while all that information is necessary you don't really need to be able to pull off that exact thing on the right to be able to draw some basic animu stuff.
>>2320317
random lurker here.
i think there's something far more meta going on here, something that many people on these kind of websites forget to consider when reading text, which often leads to piles of useless posts full of heated text.
someone who is good at drawing, might not be good at putting explanations of their techniques into written form using the correct words.
aka: just because someone is good at something, doesn't necessarily mean they'll be good at explaining how to do it using written or spoken language. perhaps they're bad at writing, or perhaps its not their primary language, or perhaps they were creating said explanation at the end of their late-night oil burning.
>>2321374
People here are retarded and don't understand that teaching is a skill of it's own, a social one. Just because someone is good at a particular thing, does not mean they can articulate it well to others. This fact should be common sense to anyone out of grade school, but it looks like the education system has failed numerous people who post here and on the internet in general.
>>2321139
It requires concious design choices.
That's why people who don't understand design, shape language or at least have an inherent understanding of asthetics, just can't stylize.
We've seen at least half a dozen cases of people here on /ic/ who could draw perfectly acceptable studio work but couldn't stylize to save their lives. You all told them they needed more Loomis, but in fact what they needed was more Mark Davis, more Deja, more Keane, mostly more visual rethoric and less esoteric slaving to a single teacher.
>>2321374
You ability to draw well in general reflects on your ability to draw manga pictures. Be it your inability to grasp anatomical errors like shown in the anime example of the OP, shaping for the right shapes, picking the right colors to make an image look like pure sex, etc... It all adds up.
There are a whole lot of anime weebo faggots wannabe hentai artists hanging out here who seem to be overly defensive about whoever their favorite anime artist is and they are probably not that mature either so hanging a sober discussion about this is difficult (Not that we need to). Can you draw horrendous manga that still sell well? Sure. And next to those the ones who are actually half decent seems godly to weebos.
>>2319842
I bet the guy who draws the most endearing cartoons cannot draw the most realistic portraits and the guy who draws the most realistic portraits cannot draw the most endearing cartoons.
Because despite how much you want to lie to yourselves, these are different skillsets. Stylization has to be learned wether you're a hobbyist or a medical illustrator, knowing how the body looks doesn't mean you know how to design an appealing body or economize information.
If your goal is drawing stylized figures, going full Russian Academy before dipping on desgin at all is shooting yourself on the foot and wasting a massive ammount of time.
>>2319842
Is there even a market for one on the right?
>>2321433
a market for figure studies in pencil?
no, it's a study you diddly dingus.
>>2321433
there isn't even a market for left either (in da west)
>>2321443
dA buys a lot of "digital watercolor" moeblobs.
It's not an industry but it's a market.
I don't remember the last time I was paid, or even found a work offer for non-photobashed realism.
>>2320810
saved for later use
>>2321540
That's nothing but irrelevant banalities though. If you want to construct images from imagination then you need those things and it doesn't matter if those images are cartoony or realistic. However if you want to look good then you need to practice painting/drawing what it is you want to imitate.
It's so basic that it's amazing how some here gets confused about it.
>>2320294
This is a quality post.
>>2320810
whoever's pic is that just used 3d models in clip studio or whatever
>>2321540
>juxtaposing a irrelevent quote to artwork the person who said the quote didn't produce.
For what purpose? And you don't need to draw realistically to draw stylized. People seem to be under this stupid impression that drawing stylized = drawing from imagination. This is false. There are only 2 things, drawing from reference and drawing from imagination. Both are different skills that must be exercised if you want them both to improve. The general point is anyone can draw from reference, doesn't matter if it's a real photo or a stylized drawing. In general, making appealing drawings from imagination is harder, it doesn't matter if it's stylized or not.
100% bullshuck
>>2322693
Dont think so, if you google search you can tell they really have the skills to create that not using clip studio 3d models. (not sure what makes you think its 3d models from clip studio anyway)
I believe so too, you can see some anatomy artists that teach, their art is in exaggerated shapes, for you to get used to those shapes, i'm not a very good anatomy artists, whenever i try manga, it also get horrible. :(
It's like stretching a rubber, you'll go further than you want to get the right size when stretched.
>>2323006
Samefag here.
This is by far the best manga drawing i ever did.
This captcha shit fucking irritates me, it doesn't recognize completed the shit
>>2322693
The CSP dummy wishes it was that useful.
