So which one is better for doing digital painting, Manga Studio 5, SAI, or Corel Painter 2015?
>>2237270
photoshop
>>2237279
Fuck, you beat me to it
>>2237270
Gimp, or Krita
>>2237292
>Gimp
I haven't heard anyone recommend gimp in over a year. I haven't used it myself so I wouldn't know, just making commentary.
>>2237311
It's kinda comparable to say an older version of photoshop, only free.
>>2237314
as in a lot older, but it is good enough for general purposes. If you like the more specialized tools then photoshop is better.
I've used both Sai and manga Studio a lot and prefer Manga Studio.
I only used Corel Painter a tiny bit and didn't really like it much.
>>2237321
To expand on this, Manga Studio basically feels like Photoshop and Sai's lovechild.
It's missing a little of the utility of photoshop but personally I find it's a lot easier to actually utilize for digital art. I often hear about people doing their drawing/inking and whatever in Manga Studio or SAI and then doing the details in photoshop.
>>2237270
Manga Studio 5 is the best art program that exists if you're only counting features for artists. PS might beat it on the absolute number of features because that total is inflated by photo features for graphics guys.
Personally, I would take MS's ruler toys over PS's photomanipulation tool #413.
>>2237323
I cannot for the life of me enjoy photoshop. I don't know if it's my pressure sensitivity on Ps or something, but everything feels cluncky, lines and brushes. Everything is so fucking smooth on manga studio, that photoshop feels just bad when you try it.
anyone have tips for that ?
photoshop
>>2237334
>for artists
>for graphics guys
Wouldn't "graphics guys" qualify as "artists"?
>>2237368
He clearly meant artists as in "somebody who actually draws shit" rather than "somebody who fucks with filters n' shit".
That being said.. does mucking around in photoshop count as art? Not taking any shots as graphical designers, I'm just unfamiliar with the process and where we draw the line.
Photoshop
>>2237369
I would argue that photo manipulation can help set up a canvas to paint over. It's just another kind of short-cut, as in, if you suck as an artist it will look like shit, if you know what you're doing you can make it work for you, and it can save you time.
Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfTQ3Wv49E&t=8m49s
>>2237375
you don't think that would feel a bit like cheating?
>>2237378
>cheating
>art
Pick one.
>>2237382
Would you not consider tracing to be cheating?
I see it very much the same.. using someone else's work.. not their method, but their work to further your own career, or just make cool looking shit.
It's not a bad thing when done for fun, it's more often then not, pretty damn cool.
In itself though, it feels cheap. You're not furthering your talent, or really creating something yourself. It's a lazy shortcut. References are one thing, but to copy and edit a backdrop... that's something else.
Back to the original point though.. graphic designers and... painters? Artists?- (what word would be appropriate there?) -are not mutually exclusive..
If you're someone who takes a backdrop, adds some blur, maybe clips in some space ships they found on deviant art, then pastes a video game character on top of it.. that's not yours, you're not creating art.. you're rebranding it under your name.
>>2237387
I'm not really sure where to start. Not the same anon, and I think I'll just start with this. It's all just tools. Are you 'cheating' when you start a fire with a lighter instead of sticks? The problem with tracing is one of two things. You're using it to look like you can draw when you can't (bad form, usually pretty damn obvious, lazy, reliance on it limits your ability to improve etc), or you're infringing on copyrights/ip/whatever (bad form, unprofessional, and basically illegal).
What the guy in the video is doing is NOT tracing (and tracing can teach you a lot if you treat it like a learning tool, btw, I'm not railing on it). Manipulating photos to build up a comp/set up color pallet is a great way to help you quickly visualize what the piece will look like when it's finished. Taking colors from a picture to build your color pallet is not 'cheating'. You still have to know how to USE those colors, how to paint, how to draw. Tracing means 'drawing over lines to copy'. He is not doing that in any sense of the definition.
Also if you're going to say what is and isn't art, you're gonna have to define art. Which is a hotmess, not gonna touch it. But in the art world, what you describe as 'not creating art', actually IS creating art. Collages are considered art, and that's just cut/pasting pics.
If you don't want to watch the whole thing, skip over to 9min in the vid. Watch a bit. Skip over to 15 min. Watch a bit. Skip to 30min in. Tell me how that's tracing. Look at what he's actually doing. If you can 'trace' from that kind of maniping and make it look good, you have the skill to do it from scratch. Doing it this way helps speed up the process (for some people at least), esp when you have to pump out tons of pics. You should try it, actually, it'll help you push past your comfort zone a bit (even if you still prefer not to do it in the future!)
Apologies for the little rant, misunderstanding basic art tools is a peeve of mine lol
>>2237485
I can see how manipulating photos can help to better visualize a scene, but isn`t it better to develop your mind`s eye without these kind of crutches? I think it limits the artist development somehow.
>>2237382
Gr8 b8 m8
>>2237671
>krita's drawing feels just as clunky and disconnected as photoshop's
It's the first time that I hear such a thing about that software. As a matter of fact everyone says Krita is on top of the game in the drawing/painting department.
Maybe your skills are still in baby-tier stage? Because if you suck it doesn't exist yet any magic brush or software to solve lack of skills and talent.
>>2237703
I guess I'm asking if Manga Studio handles drawing in a way that feels closer to traditional drawing, because with a wacom I find it incredibly difficult to get attractive lines when I don't have that problem traditionally.
But what you're saying is to just get used to the tablet then, right?
>>2237714
Well yeah, then I guess I was right. Getting used to the tablet is very hard, it takes at least a year, or even more. Krita gave me the best results, after Corel Painter. Try the Sketch - Sketch_Chrome and Sketch_Shade, pencils from the krita default brushes. Those are the most close to traditional pencil and ink that I've seen yet in any software.
>>2237721
Those feel pretty nice, thanks!
what if you're halfway through the first step of the sticky?
traditional drawing is the way to go, right? I feel like I'd have to acquire the coordination to draw with a pencil first then delve into digital painting. I'll buy a tablet and other material when I have a better grasp at the drawing techniques.
>>2237751
If you want to go digital I would almost just say to get the cheap $100 tablet from wacom if you have the money. It's going to require a lot of time to get used to anyways its not like I can draw on paper so I can do digital they're different mediums you still do need to know how to draw so if you want to do traditional before going over the skills will still carry
>>2237270
who is this
Anybody knows what happened to BlackInk? All I see is a 2 year old beta on cgjews. Digged those custom brush features.
PS Are krita tutorials as amateurish and cringey as they were a year ago? Or did their $$$ ones leak somewhere?
>>2237767
You don't need to buy wacom, there are plenty of cheaper comparable off brand devices if you don't have a lot of money to shell out. You miss out on some of the nice reputable brand benefits though. If you have the money, do whatever.
>>2238675
thanks
>>2237270
>paint
Corel painter
or Krita
>chinese cartoons
Sai
>>2237344
http://lazynezumi.com/
Although I use that program with Manga Studio as well. Go figure...
>>2237279
I had photoshop but it wouldn't work with my touch screen for some reason, so I got Manga Studio 5 (mostly because I wanted to play around with the reference manikin feature, which I recently decided was not worth the time it takes to use. Touchscreen works though!)
>>2239815
What's the advantage gained by Sai in the field of chinese cartoonistry?
>>2237270
Damnit OP
That girl looks EXACTLY like a mix of two of my crushes during high school.
>>2241708
Excellent control of line quality as well as most effects used in Japanese animes being easily accessible in SAI.
>>2241708
It's the most lightweight software that has everything you'll need for the generic weebshit template.
>>2239815
what are the advantages of corel over photoshop when you don't want to use weird gimmicky brushes?
Manga Studio = Clip Studio right?
I recently found out I just missed a 70% off sale on Clip Studio. Are these sales a frequent occurrence?
Well Paint Tool Sai can use Photoshop files so I swap between the that and Photoshop.
Photoshop has some really neat and useful features for cutting down on time needed but Paint Tool Sai is just clutter free and easy to work with.
Photoshop suffers from the paradox of choice. It's comparable to having too many channels on a T.V you spend more time looking for something to watch than you would with a simpler setup.
>>2244014
I googled earlier today and flash sales seem to occur throughout the year. Amazon sells it for 33% off.
>>2237321
I'm sad Corel has garnered such a lackluster reputation because I like the idea of a program aimed at emulating traditional media.
Does the newer version of Photoshop have improved traditional media features?
>>2237683
How optimized is mypaint? I mean, my PC is horrible. Intel core 2 duo, 2gb ram, no graphics card horrible, but I use manga studio and photoshop no problem, and for some reason I can barely open krita.
Any chance mypaint would run on my computer?
>Aobe won't stop shilling Creative Suite
>you have to call to buy Photoshop CS
Why?
The only good thing photoshit has that manga studio doesn't is the liquify filter. And 1000+px textured brushes don't lag.
>>2245451
It's pretty lightweight. Should work on anything, I have no problems with an i3, 4gb ram and an integrated intel gpu. Also, it's like 20mb dude, it's not that hard to try it yourself.
>>2246053
Every professional digital artist worth a damn uses photoshop, deal with it. Feel free to post something done in Manga Studio of the same quality as pic related to prove me wrong, otherwise don't bother replying.
>>2237344
Photoshop uses photoeditting logic to create art.
You're not supposed to emulate traditional media
Anyone knows some good brush packs for krita?
>>2246655
What the fuck are you talking about? What is "photoediting logic"? You paint exactly the same way in photoshop as you would in any other software.
>>2246678
Depends.
In photoshop the "paint" dries instantly. None of that traditional brush blending engine other programs have. You could paint with with airbrush, but it tends to look plasticy and boring as fuck.
>>2246683
I'm still waiting for someone to post an example that showcases the superiority of these other programs.
>>2246684
The only person I can think of is Artgerm, who uses Painter. Bunch of free videos on his live stream page.
>>2246684
http://www.davidrevoy.com/categorie1/artworks
This dude uses Krita and I like his stuff a lot.
I wanna to find a top tier traditional painter that started to dabble with digital painting for the first time, would be interesting to see how they do stuff and what the they make
>>2247498
>>2246685
I'm not saying there aren't some exceptions of good artists that use other programs, but it's nothing that can't be done in Photoshop. Yet Photoshop apparently can do things that these other programs can't do, because I have yet to see a truly impressive digital painting done in Manga Studio or Gimp or some shit.
>>2247544
Photoshop can do it as well AND you get to pay more money for it lol. When it comes to painting, krita and manga studio have as much power as photoshop, maybe not for photomanipulation but we are talking paintinghere. What are these special "things" as you call them, photoshop can do that can't be done in other programs and that are especially usefull to painters?
>>2247544
Because people learn to use Photoshop and they stick with.
Manga studio is relatively young and it's marketing comic artists with perspective/frame tools.
>>2237683
I used GIMP when I switched over to Ubuntu/Fedora a long time ago. It's not bad if you've never used any other painting program to compare it to.
pic related was what I drew in GIMP. Currently using Krita, which has more brush options than GIMP.
I remember having issues with the pencil brush on GIMP. The lines change when I zoomed in/out.
>>2247544
Photoshop can do the things others can, but it just takes more effort for a lot of things. Photoshop isn't really the most accessible program, it has a pretty decent learning curve and most photoshop artists seem to either avoid any detailed linework or need to spend ages gitting gud at it because linework in photoshop is just a fucking nuisance.
>>2246651
>Every professional digital artist worth a damn uses photoshop, deal with it.
Do you really think it makes a difference for drawing?
Actually, Manga studio at least (didn't tried the others aside Krita which is cool but too slow when using big brushes) is obviously better for painting/drawing. Get rid of your habits and try to explain why PS would be better at painting and drawing. And what difference it makes if you draw in MS or Krita since they can export and read .psd.
>>2237368
Graphic design is qualified as a discipline, not an art. Because it actually has a purpose. As such a lot of Adobe's tools are designed with that in mind and feel extremely clunky when you try to use them for art.
>>2241708
Gorgeous, perfect linework. Pigment color theory bending. An actually useful vector feature that doesn't require you boot AI and deal with PS insisting on turning your vector lines into bitmap every 5 seconds. And it can run on a 15yo computer softly.
>>2245935
You mean Creative Cloud, right?
It's just them realizing Apple's business style of selling you the same shit every year with a minor aesthetic paintover doesn't work with a software as powerful as PS and going the Skynet way instead.
You can download CS3 and use it freely because the key authentification servers are down. And sincerely, InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop and Dreamweaver haven't gotten any better since CS3, hell ID hasn't gotten anything worth updating since CS2.
The only software they kept on tweaking meaningfully was Flash and that shit's getting obsoleted soon anyway.
>>2237270
SAI+Photoshop is the holy marriage of digital art.
People just don't say it out loud because unless you're japanese, having SAI most likely means you pirated it and people are still cunts about just taking what software you need when buying it isn't an option.
SAI is the best lineart software and while PS is not the best painting program (Painter is), it is the most customizable, the most useful at streamlining your work process through actions, filters, brushes and layer styles, and allows for near-infinite solutions to the same problem.
>>2247544
>because I have yet to see a truly impressive digital painting done in Manga Studio or Gimp or some shit.
Fallacy. You don't know what most of the things you see were done in.
Also Photoshop is older. Almost all expirienced artists grew with it, so leaving it so they have to relearn the UI of another program is pointless if they earn so much they can buy ps 100 times over, get it?
>>2252575
post link to cs3
>>2253782
www.google.com
krita
https://krita.org/
>>2252575
Don't you mean CS2?
>>2252575
You are an unemployed clown if you think that the CC versions don't add anything. Photoshop especially is almost an different program.
