Can we all just agree that Maoism is the worst form of communism?
Agreed.
Can we all agree that comparing projected to actual population growth in the same timeframe as the marriage laws and inflating the crude death rate to the point when statistics from the 50s prove that he would have saved technically 30 million isn't some old bullshit. mmm hmm.
Maoism is fucking based and you're an ass fractured Titoist who's sucking up to the anti-communists like you've always fucking done.
Fuck outta here/
>>996358
Color me surprised. An actual Maoist on /his/.
No one even brought up the death tolls fucktard.
Maoism is retarded.
>muh peasant revolution
>muh protracted people's struggle
>we can fight the bourgeoisie by forcing intellectuals to farm
>turning farms into steel mills
>collective agrarian socialism
Holy shit, Maoism is cancer. So cancerous that based Deng Xiaoping and the Communist Party today is still trying to suppress the memory of Mao's regime.
>>996334
Maoism is socialism, not communism
>>996395
If you want to get pedantic about it, Maoism is basically nationalist socialism. They made no attempt to abolish the Sinocentrism.
>>996391
It's protracted people's war dimwit, and it's the only continuity within the class struggle. Otherwise you've failed to produce anything besides a list of characteristics commonly associated with the Chinese Revolution in greentext, to what effect I can't fathom.
>>996334
That's like saying ass cancer is the worst type of cancer.
>>996417
you know you got burnt, commie. You fuck outta here.
>>996417
Not him, but I personally find the concept of a protracted guerilla war going on in the rural areas kind of stupid. It certainly didn't work out for Mao who was getting BTFO in the Chinese Civil War when that was his tactic.
The tables only really started turning when the Soviets gave him industrialized Manchuria after World War II. How can anyone expect to win against the bourgeoisie with peasants who literally just shoveled shit all their lives?
>>996426
McCarthy really did a number on you people..
>not following hoxhaism
>not building bunkers
why are commies so stupid?
>>996444
Not even an American but McCarthy literally did nothing wrong, there actually were communists in the State Department and McCarthy was right all along
>>996452
I'm beginning to think you don't even know what communism is
>>996449
Non-European here, so I'm not getting this bunkers meme. I have a vague idea of what you're talking about, but were these bunkers really that extensive?
>>996454
Adjusted for inflation, Social Democracy passes for straight up Communism in the US.
>>996391
>Maoism is retarded.
>Because muh peasant revolution
Where would he base the revolution on, then. The Proletariat? This was 1920's-1950's fucking China. No such thing.
Also Maoism is basically -and he said this outright- not communism, but a step towards communism.
Honestly though, the faggot ruined his country but build a base for a stronger one.
>>996449
Hoxha-ism isn't really a thing.
It was just very orthodox M-L/Stalinism.
Can we all agree that liberalism is the best ideology?
Maoism and Stalinism are shit tier
Lenninism and Marxism is Okay tier
Trotskism and Bakunism is God tier
>>996358
That must be why China became such an economic powerhouse while maoism was in force
Oh wait
>>996744
Yes.
>>996334
No, since it's the only one that works
Marxism-Leninism-Maoism is worse
>DUDE THE REVOLUTION CAN ONLY HAPPEN IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES LMAO
>>996334
No that's Juche.
>>998010
>Juche
>Communism in any way
They mention socialism a few times in their doctrine but beyond that it's shamelessly theocratic, monarchic military authoritarianism.
>>998020
>implying any of those things incompatible with state ownership
>>998034
At least ML's and Maoists pretend they are actual socialism with buzzwords like "material conditions" and the like.
>>996334
Nope. The Khmer Rouge is.
>Mao: revolution starts with peasants because we have no educated proletariats to do actual communism.
>POL POT: H-HOL UP
*Intellectuals Arrested*
>SO YOU BE SAYIN
*Stupid laws like arresting people with glasses.*
>SO YOU BE SAYIN
*Death Camps where peole are killed by hand.*
>WE NEED TO BE PEASANTS N SHIEEET???
>>996391
>we can fight the bourgeoisie by forcing intellectuals to farm
You're mixing Pol Pot's Cambodia and Maoist China.
The quickest way to power in Maoist China is to *be an intellectual.* Preferably in hard sciences and engineering.
Late 60's/70's China was often described as a Technocracy due to the number of Engineers and Scientists in the Government.
>>998113
The Khmer Rouge were arguably not even communists.
>>996744
I hesitate to say that kind of liberalism is the same as what we see today, but maybe I'm just a retard.
>>996511
Don't have a communist revolution if you aren't an advanced economy?
>>997995
MLM and MTW are two very different things you dumb cunt.
>>998124
True. They were Maoists. And they were working on a particularly fucked up version of it.
Mao said: peasants are the basis of revolution inc ountries like China because there was no Public-School educated proletariats around to do the actual work of communism. And while his economic policies were fucktarded, he did have a point.
Paul Pott interpreted that as "WE NEED TO RESTART CIVILIZATION."
>>996395
Maoism is communism, but is characterized by being anti-west as well as anti-bourgeoisie, because the "west" was brought up to be imperialistic by nature, which makes it a popular ideology in the 3rd world in particular and among self-hating westerners.
>>998173
> but is characterized by being anti-west as well as anti-bourgeoisie
Doubt it, didn't most Anti-Colonial movements profess some form of Stalinism instead of Maoist though with only Cambodia being the notable exception
>>998203
Just from what I have read:
> Both the first and the second world exploit the third world, but the first world is the most aggressive part. The workers in the first and second world are "bought up" by imperialism, preventing socialist revolution. The people of the third world, on the other hand, have not even a short-sighted interest in the prevailing circumstances. Hence revolution is most likely to appear in third world countries, which again will weaken imperialism opening up for revolutions in other countries too
>>998203
>didn't most Anti-Colonial movements profess some form of Stalinism instead of Maoist though with only Cambodia being the notable exception
During the Sino-Soviet Split, Cambodia, Laos, some African nations & red groups that were heavily agricultural followed Maoism. Also Naxalites and half of the Philippnes' Communist groups.
>worst form of communism
There isn't a best form you red bastards.
>>996334
No, Kampuchean communism is even worse.
>>996464
Let me put it this way. The bunkerization was extended enough that you could literally arm and encamp the entire current population of albania in them.
>>996358
this has to be a parody
if not, 1969 called, they want their whiney activism back
>>998225
You're god damn right.
>>998245
Initially they were Buddies with China but yeap, Vietnamese Communism is based of Ruskie one because Fuck China.
>our gommieism is so great we won't allow you to leave
every tiem
>>998297
it's elementary statistics.
>>996464
They were literally on every street corner. I'm not even joking when I say that.
>>998364
Are you Albanian? Is it true that teenagers often use the abandoned bunkers to fuck?
>>997851
However, without Mao's development policies, Deng wouldn't have had the infrastructure in place to build an economic powerhouse.
>>996452
McCarthy was insane, you don't know what you're talking about.
>>996744
Yes
>>998372
>You will never lose your v-card in a bunker while the ghost of comrade Hoxha protects you from revisionism
>>997308
>ideology that doesn't exist is shit tier
>can't articulate the diff between Maoism and Mao Zedong Thought
>holds up as God tier the most armchair edgelord teenage approaches to Marxism because the ISO got to him at a young age in his affluent suburb in the PNW
fucking kill me
>>998020
>authoritarianism
spot the Sandernista!
>>998359
no, its elementary apologist crap
>>998148
khmer rouge were as maoist as fucking gaddafi's supporters in libya and the african union
that is, not really maoist at all and just labeled that way because westerners don't like understanding ideological differences between groups of brown people
>>999106
The thing is that no one's denying the famines took place, just pointing out how stupid the element of conspiracy allegation look in regard to historical perspective and how producing an absurd death toll out of thin air from speculation and shamefacedly inflating base values. I'd imagine the authors were apologists too for admitting their errors and shortcomings of their methods on record
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/bookstore/books/china/macfarquhar.html
>>999131
REEEEEEE REEEEEEEEE TANKIE REEEEEEEEE REEEEEEEE SUBSCRIBE TO MY NEWSPAPER TO GET THE TRUTH REGISTER GREEN REEEEEEE
>>996449
Name one socialist who comes close to being as based as Hoxha, you can't
>>999145
Posada
daily reminder that if you aren't a Hoxhaist you're revisionist cancer and should report to the nearest bunker immediately for termination
>>997308
Stalinism = Leninism
Also, Marxism is the main basis all of these thoughts (except for Bakunism, which isn't even a real thing.). To call it "Okay tier" is to say they are all "Okay tier."
>>999213
he's a trot bruv don't pay him any mind
>>997995
That is Maoism Third Worldism.
Either way, Maoism believes that only peasants (not any other type of worker) can be successful revolutionaries, which is ridiculously anti-Marxist.
>>996464
Enver Hoxha built 700,000 bunkers. One for every four people. It was a little bit ridiculous, but with good intentions. With the way things were going, they could be been invaded by practically anyone.
>>996668
Hoxhaism is actually a tendency of Marxism.
Marxism-Leninism-Hoxhaism.
>>999220
Yeah.
Revisionists just bother me.
>>999247
>a little bit ridiculous
Dude this is Pynchon levels of absurd
You are all revisionist.
>>999268
He was still one of the best socialist leaders.
>>996334
Communism is shit overall.
>>999279
nice try bourgeois
>>999279
Hey it might be cool in a post scarcity society
>>996358
>unironically a maoist
Back to revleft
>>999103
>defending the DPRK
Filthy dumb tankie scum
>>999138
How does it feel knowing you're ideologically closer to social democracy than you are actual socialism?
>>999270
>>999318
w/e as long as you know you've got feet of clay desu.
>>996334
So what's the best form of communism?
>>999384
The one where they're all lying face down in a ditch.
>>999038
TOPKEK
>>999384
The Revolutionary Science of Marxism-De Leonism
All the revolutionary fervor of Marx with the practicality of syndicalism!
>>999392
Reminds me of how you dumbfuck Nazis thought you could pin Katyn on us after using your damn ammo and your unmistakable Sardeinpackung method. You really are something.
>>999344
are you asking me (the poster of that comment, who is clearly a ML) or the caricature i produced (a filthy stupid Trot)? cause if the former i don't really understand your question and am curious how Trots, who literally campaign for socdems, aren't more socdems than people who learn from actual successful revolutions?
>>999425
>>999425
>that knee jerk reaction to calling someone a Nazi for being anti-communist
Butt flustered.
>>999448
I'm comparing both ideologies to social democracy. ML's are socdems with concentration camps and secret police, and Trots are socdems with leaflets.
>>998113
Even their anthem was crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyxEqj2vo1M
>>999384
The one that isn't.
Communism is the worst form of communism.
>>999471
oh, so you're an anarchist. how many hours did you spend on your stationary bike today heating up the generator that runs your wifi signal? also, just because your trot friend cut you out of writing royalties doesn't mean you get to shit on leaflets.
>>999425
blyat cyka davai
>>999384
A classless society where private property, religion, and the family unit don't exist
>>999496
>Anybody who shits on ML is an anarchist
>>999473
That lacks English translation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vW5HvVaybw
My special form of Communism, which has never been tried, is the best type.
>>999384
Who /Paris Commune/ here?
>>999588
get off /his/ you fucking shit.
>>999588
Does anybody still follow pre-Marxist socialism anymore?
>>999588
End yourself, shitstain.
>>999384
Collectivisation of gf's.
We must seize the means of pussy my brothers. Future generations must never feel tfw no gf.
>>996452
>there actually were communists in the State Department and McCarthy was right all along
Does the name Roy Kuhn mean nothing? Likewise that list he claimed to have of infiltrators never turned up/was produced. Take a look at the communists he actually managed to uncover with his comittee.
>Capitalism
>Builds walls to keep people from climbing in
>Communism
>Builds walls to keep people from climbing out
>>998113
They did force people to farm though. I say this as someone that doesn't give a shit about maoism either way. I think Mao was generally a force for good though.
>>999425
Calling someone a Nazi for having communism is as dumb as calling someone a Bolshevik for hating fascism.
>>998034
They're not incompatible, but after the fall of the Soviet Union, North Korea gradually started removing any references to Marxism-Leninism and even communism in general from its constitution. Works by Marx and Lenin are now banned there for describing an alternative approach to developing socialism. Juche also ideologically differs in several fundamental ways from Marxism, such as how it views humans as the driving cause of historical progress, rather than inevitable historical forces the way Marxism does. Juche is a form of radical socialism, but it's not even theoretically trying to achieve communism.
>>998148
>Paul Pott interpreted that as "WE NEED TO RESTART CIVILIZATION."
He didn't interpret it that way, he just felt that colonization had irreversibly damaged the country to the point where society had to start over from scratch before proper socialism could be developed. The only thing Pol Pot's ideology has in common with Maoism is that they both used the peasantry rather than an urban proletariat as the backbone of their revolutions.
>>999588
Paris Commune? More like Paristan Caliphate amirite?
>>999588
After all the shit you pulled, I'm happy the government came in and slaughtered all you godless commies.
>>999384
anti revisionist Marx-Leninism
>>1000292
>Tankie
We're going to need a bigger helicopter
>>1000319
>unironically supporting a CIA puppet who took orders from a man with the last name Friedman
we're going to need a bigger gulag
>>1000336
>unironically supporting state capitalism
>>1000336
I don't think Pinochet even met Friedman. His advisors were Chicago boys, aka Chileans who studied under Friedman, not Friedman himself.
>>1000343
>dictatorship of the proletariat
>state capitalism
pick one
>>1000336
I've seen what passes for leftists in my country. You guys couldn't throw together anything more complicated than your standard fuck party. You try to haul off everyone you think is a "reactionary" to a gulag and you're going to get gunned down by rednecks
>>1000336
>overweight unemployed western cuckmeister talking about gulags
>>1000357
petite bourgeois college students = / = workers of the world
when the dictatorship of the proletariat finally comes, it will be the rednecks and the workers going around with the guns and red flags to the homes of the bourgeois and revisionist liberal scum
>>1000363
>when the dictatorship of the proletariat finally comes
Because you guys have such a great track record on that.
I would like to see you guys try to seize the city I live in. You getting mowed down by the cops would give me a hardon like no other.
>>1000363
Good luck with that since rednecks tend to be overwhelmingly right wing, and it's those petite bourgeois college students who are the biggest proponents of marxism.
>>1000292
Anti-Revionism Marxism-Leninism is great.
Can we all just agree that anyone who calls themselves a Marxist should get AIDS?
>>1000319
You're all about the helicopters but hush hush about the german shepherds, why is that?
>>1000392
Why are you still trying to force it, classcuck?
>>1000392
This.
>>1000350
I bet those proles really liked not having the means of production and taking orders from militant brutes.
>>1000392
Excuse me?
>>999422
>Bolshevism for American hipsters
nyet
>>999510
Leftcoms are wannabe Anarchists though; le pedophile frenchman of sectarian principles whole shtick is mixing up council-coms and life-stylists
>>1000363
>Social Strata = Petite bourgeois
>Lumpen = da real Proletariat
>Liberals being purged just cos
Kill yourself you LARPing fuck.
>>999508
Sweet Jesus, every so often I honestly forget how dumbfuck communism really is. Literally anti-civilization. The fuck is wrong with you infants.
>>1000487
Learn2dialectics classcuck
>>1000497
Don't you have a helicopter ride to catch?
>>1000497
>Dialectics
>Stop using forms of reasoning that aren't approved because they don't lead to the outcomes I want
>>1000502
>mfw a pre-kantian pleb replies to my post
>>1000527
>Implying you have to be a positivist to disagree with dialectics
>>999508
what the fuck
>no religion
>no family unit
I'll kill you if you ever tried to impose this on me
>>996334
Any Eurocommunists here?
Khmer Rouge
Juche
Mugabe's AfroCommunism
>>999247
>but with good intentions
How are paranoid delusions of a people's war against invading Serbs/Soviets/Americans "good intentions?"
>>1000601
>I-i-i-i-i don't get to rape kids a bloo bloo :,(
>>996334
French.
That is Chairman "Meow" in French.
True story
Jacobins getting uppity again ITT, they'll start killing each other soon enough
>>999425
Hahahaha what is it with communist fags instantly calling anti-communists Nazis? You guys do it every time.
>>999384
Luxembourgism, Fabianism, Council Communism.
Basically any form of Marxism that doesn't fucking eliminate democratic process and transparency in the name of some fucked up Vanguard.
>>999384
That one that hasn't been tried you know, that one.
>>996358
>>996358
comrade here to offer some lite critisism, my main problem with maoism is mao himself. i feel in essence that mao forgot or dis not understand thatto build socialism you need to build a state and not just a revoloutionary mindset. i know, less exciteing but not everything is gillotines and storming the reichstag
>>999384
The current one. The one that doesn't exist.
>>997308
>stalinism
its called marxism leninism you silly goose, and ite god tier
>>996334
No, because I don't have an idea what the fuck Maoism was.
>>999384
From this world. Military economic model.
Lei Feng is the true champion of the revolution
>>1001712
Marxism Leninism != Stalinism. Stalin think and wrote much.
>>996358
The Chinese government sucks major gorilla dick and Mao is at the center of that gorilla's scrotum.
>>1001728
i feel bad abt this but what does != mean?
One of the biggest tragedies of Maoism is that it the cultural revolution blowback actually led to an outright rejection of liberalism, egalitarianism and feminism in China and now the ruling "ideology" of China is now an ultra-misogynistic, ultra-conservative neo-Confucianism.
This is why I hate Leninists, all thy do is delegitimize humanist and egalitarian views wherever they go. (and this is coming from someone who thinks State and Revolution and the April Thesis are fantastic political works)
>>1000643
The fact that you think family involves rape says a lot more about you than it does who you're replying to.
>>1001760
I guess that is the means to express a not-equals construct for any using a character set that lacks an equal sign with a not-making slash through it.
On a blackboard one would have written an equal sign and then make a lower-left to upper right slash through it. Since there is no overstruck slash, the big hard vertical of an exclamation point was employed.
>>999145
Niyazov.
>>1001171
Who /syndic/ here?
>>996334
>but anon, its the only one that still works
>>999425
lol kys
>>1000363
speak for yourself ill be gunning down the commies
it sure is /leftypol/ in here.
you're legitimately more pathetic than your average /pol/
>>1000609
It was a failure, even the hardline KKE or the portuguese PCP are more popular than the dysmal state of abandoning the cores.
>>999003
That is such a load of horse shit. The peasants were literally throwing their hoes and tools into furnaces to make a bunch of useless pig iron and intellectuals were relegated to farmers living in huts. Sure, the western view of Mao is far too critical but image how much more effective Deng's policies would have been if they were preceded by developmental policies that were unburdened by wackjob campaigns
>>1000453
I don't know what that term means, therefore it must be bolshevist. Read more you slimy cuck
>>1004676
>You hipsters
I'm the right wing redneck, actually. Stay mad.
>>996334
>>1004676
My stomach hurts when I see anyone with a marxist book. It's like a giant red sign that says "Hi, I don't understand economics and am easily drawn toward revolutionary rhetoric."
>makes communism more like capitalism
>bad
Nah
>>1004774
>"Anyone who disagrees with my views doesn't understand X"
> "Economic ideas are just as empirically demonstrable as objective scientific theory"
Normally people use that line to cover up their own complete lack of economic knowledge. The field's cucked by Keynesian professors anyway, and a great deal of their economic theories are completely unsubstantiated. You're not an expert on economics for reading a bit of Rothbard or Friedman. Try harder.
all communism is fucking stupid
>>1000350
This is the biggest problem with you /leftypol/ people, you're so dogmatically Marxist (even the anarchists on that board) that you refuse to admit even Marx missed things like the importance of culture, sexism, racism and the rise of a bureaucratic class that will take the role of the Capitalist class. Also Marx's views changed over life, he became far less pro-violence and radical with age.
I believe Anarchism utopian, but they were right about one thing, politicians are not working class, they are another class into their own like an aristocratic class, stacking people with their own interests in a nepotistic organization like bureaucracy will just create another class like the Capitalists.
In the same way that Race and Sex manifest themselves as well into other forms of class oppression (that will not be absolved by a Socialist revolution unless addressed directly) dictatorial bureaucracy will not create a leadership that cares about the working class.
As Socialists the biggest lesson we should learn from the USSR is the importance of democratic process and being able to hold politicians to account and force transparency.
>>1005036
>As Socialists the biggest lesson we should learn from the USSR is the importance of democratic process and being able to hold politicians to account and force transparency.
The USSR was at its peak when it was at its most totalitarian, and it collapsed because the leaders started allowing more state rights and democracy.
Why would a Titoist be ass fractured?
>>1005146
And you're point? The USSR was held together through fear and totalitarianism. Are you trying to hold a country together for the sake of nationalism or the sake of the working class? How can you be pro-Socialist when you're arguing for totalitarianism and authoritarianism to keep together a state for the sake of it being a state?
Also no matter what, authoritarianism and totalitarianism leads to inefficiency due to the fact you can't identify and react to issues inherent to the system. You're forced to ignore those issues and use even more authoritarianism to crush the antagonisms that come from those issues and contradictions.
No socialist should argue for totalitarianism. The only time a hierarchical authoritarian process was justified (and arguably even then) was during WW2 and the Civil War.
Communism is consistently framed by the use of religious, heaven-like rhetoric. Marx drew parallels with early hunter-gatherer societies to communicate the concept of "naive communism," but never directly stated that the "pure" form would be something achievable by human societies.
So, yeah, all forms will be flawed. And Mao's was responsible for a lot of heinous murder and forced labor, but it also was predicated on a utopian ideal.
Fortunately, we might be able to achieve it by allowing the coming robot overlords to sort shit out. Not even joking.
>>996358
Fuck off CCP Shill
>>999384
The one that falls 8,000 feet back down to the Earth from a helicopter :^)
>>1000394
He used german shepards to kill commies? P cool if you ask me.
>>1005766
He got commie bitches dicked by dogs, probably the only time in their life they actually had sex.
>>996358
Holy shit
/thread
OP will never recover, well done comrade
>in before "samefag"
>>1001714
If you're interested in actually existing Maoist praxis, Fanshen is a great book with keen insight on life during the Mao period.
>>1001792
>One of the biggest tragedies of Maoism is that it the cultural revolution blowback actually led to an outright rejection of liberalism, egalitarianism and feminism in China and now the ruling "ideology" of China is now an ultra-misogynistic, ultra-conservative neo-Confucianism.
In a sense I agree. Basically it should've gone further or it should've been slower. Unfortunately history never works on ideals and every moment is either too soon or too late.
>>1005805
Do you people actually call eachother 'comrade' or are you just pretending to be autistic
>>1005841
i'm a communist as well, but this is true IF none of you is in a communist party or organisation.
it's really cringy to call each others comrades when you're actually a cuck living in a basement.
organize and agitate
Rotfront
>>1005841
In real world socialist organizations, yes people do call each other comrade out of tradition and many Socialist organizations are basically 1918 LARP groups.
Me and my "comrades" call eachother cobbers, much more fun and redneck.
>>998113
Pol pot was an autistic primitivist desu
I wish heng killed his ass
Titoism is the best
Maoists and stalinists swerve
>>1006451
>China grows rarger.
>USSR balkanized but Russian core is still intact.
>Yugoslavia dead by '93.
>>1006464
>China is a disgusting zero capitalist tumor
>USSR a beucratic hellhole
>yugoslavia has more freedom and socialism than both with a higher standard of living
Rather take that then putinland and "totally still communist guize" China
>>1006451
>survive by taking massive free loans from the west
>USSR collapses
>USA comes to collect
>chimp out and start a war
>>1006484
>chimp out
Niggers the US funding separatists groups and playing on spooks is not just chimping out
>>1006492
>US funding separatists groups
Now I've heard it all
>>1006498
>Reagan dindu nuffin
>>998010
>Believing in the media meme that North Korea is bad
