Did their reigns bring anything positive to their countries?
>>978308
Memes
Even the Chinese are shitting all over Mao these days
honnestly if you negate all the casualities created by communist Big china and USSR on their soil and their slave states* YES:
Mao: forced modernization of whole chinese empire, destroyed a feudal castic religious hierarchic system into a chink work harder society.
Stalin: forced industrialism and militarization of USSR and forced collectivisation of education and food prodution
Yes they killed people by the tenth of millions
but they both used the manpower of their country to wipe out century technological gap between western world and them.
China 1930: no industry, no arms developpement, demographic excesses and starvings cause no industrial production of food.
China 1975: is slowly creeping on japan on industrial growth, arms everybody and his mother (cambodia, Vietnam, africa ), better balance between food and chink babby production (but total genocide of countless chineses ethnicities 15M).
USSR 1930: shitty food production, cucked by germany, can't into total enslavement of USSR satellites, is aching to put up and industrial system up to produce guns and food
USSR 1970 collectivo/kolkhoz/sovkhoz are feeding almost erryone now (+10M people died out of starvation),cucked germany, poland and Ukraine and basically everybody, total enslavement of satellites, produc gunz and wheat for erryone nao.
Yes communism is evil,
Yet it had been a necessary evil, in order to modernize overbred feudal countries into industrialised corrupted one.
Of course, lots of infrastructure, technology and a more homogenous and bigger society but at the cost of lots of lives and culture loses.
Looking at how other places also develop during that time it was not necessary what they did but...
>>978417
Nationalistic leaders would have done the same though, the communist factor was not really needed and destroyed too many places and kill thousands of the elite in both countries.
>>978417
>feudal castic religious hierarchic system
Wow, Imperial China was feudal europe now?
Because I swore Imperial China had:
>Meritocratic government.
>No state religion.
>No feudalism. There wasn't even a fucking nobility in sight save for the Imperial Clan. Land was owned by either a Clan Village (super common) or a commercial landlord.
>Slavery was a penal thing.
As for the prior Republic/Warlord Period, the commercial landlords do not a feudal system make.
>>978718
Han Chinese were second-class citizens in their own country.
>>978417
China only started getting its shit together under Deng, with the Gang of 4 (The remenant of Maos regime) being his only true obstacles toward modernization, which tells you how corrosive Mao's influence had been on the party and the country.
China's now an authoritarian oligarchy instead of an authoritarian pseudo-monarchy.
>>978737
Should've stayed that way desu
>>978415
He's still respected as the founder of the PRC, it's mostly his administration that gets the blame.
>>978745
>>978737
>The Manchus were the same as the Yuan Mongols and had a race-based caste system.
>Manchu identity was pretty much dead in the 1800's save for an irrelevant language spoken in Liaodong by Manchu peasants while their co-ethnic rulers blabbered in Classical Chink.
Why don't you admit you know nothing of Chinese history?
>>978777
>The Han Chinese had so much freedom that they deliberately chose to shave their head and voluntarily adopted the Manchu queue hairstyle as a sign of the eternal friendship shared between the Han Chinese and Manchu.
>>978308
Mao solidified Tibet and Xinjiang as Chinese territory at a time when they could've turned independent.
>>978806
1) Its a Manchu interpretation of a Chinese custom: political haircuts. Historically Chinese hairstyles were a way for men to not cut their hair as a sign of Filial Piety. Manchus thought "Rulers haircut = everyone's haircut." And pretty much forced everyone to do so as a sign of loyalty. That said, fucking hair and dress is superficial compared to he sinification of the Manchu.
2) Still doesn't counter my point. Unlike the Mongols there was no race caste system established, and a lot of Han Chinese were serving in the highest offices and some married into the Imperial Clan
Again, why don't you admit you know nothing of Chinese history you communist shill?
No, nor ever could have, as communism is simply too big and too complex a project to ever work
>>978417
>USSR in 70's
>good
lmao, it was a complete shithole
>>978745
t. Albert
>>979588
Millions of Han Chinese were slaughtered because they opposed the Manchu queue. Tens of millions of Han Chinese were killed rebelling against the Manchus. And here you are bringing up some irrelevant bullshit that doesn't even fucking matter. Okay, I'll play along, let's say that the Manchu queue was a Chinese political haircut... WHO FUCKING CARES? Seriously, who fucking cares where the idea came from? That is fucking irrelevant. Do you want to take credit for the Manchu conquest of China by claiming that the Chinese invented the weapons that were used to conquer themselves? You are so fucking delusional. All that matters is that the Manchus forced the hairstyle upon the native population of China, and millions of people were slaughtered because of it. That's all that matters.
>>978747
all the shit ideas was his. the administration actually tried to stop him, but he'd just send them to reeducation camps
>>978417
>chink work harder society
nothing to do with communism, more to do with asian culture in general
its more because of they're totalitarian nature rather than because of communism that they're succeed to mobilise very quickly,
the same can be said about singaporean style capitalism, japanese era meiji restoration, etc
also pre-open market china is shit, even compared to south east asian countries
They both killed tens of millions of their own country men.
While Stalin managed to force industrialization. Mao actually halted or reversed progress in China.
>>978417
>they both used the manpower of their country to wipe out century technological gap
In Chinas case, that was Deng. Maoist China was dogshit because Mao had no idea how modernisation was supposed to work.
There is no excuse except present day bias to say Peter the Great or Emperor Justinian were "great men" but not Stalin.
If these guys had been born a couple centuries away from contemporary times where they would no longer be viewed as enemies of the dominant political powers and emotional investments would not be so severe they would be regarded as some of the greatest leaders in history.
>>978308
No.
>>978417
>forced collectivisation of education and food prodution
>implying this was a good thing
Why has communism only caught on in countries full of uneducated peasants and semi-educated proles?
>>981985
The only thing Mao and Stalin excelled at was killing their own countrymen
>>980249
On top of that the Manchu did enforce a certain amount of racial segregation and different treatment for each ethnic group. For example the Han Chinese weren't initially allowed to settle in Manchuria or colonize Taiwan, while Mongols had a special relationship with the Imperial clan. In fact the Qing Empire was more like a dual or triple monarchy uniting China, Manchuria and Mongolia under the same crown with laws based on clan/ethnic affiliation instead of borders. It wasn't a caste system as in India but it came pretty close.
Even those Han Chinese who managed to rise up were often part of the families/clans given special status by the Manchu because they had heped the conquest or whatever.
>>983453
The Qing instituted some serious gestapo-type policing of the populace. Entire villages were wiped out if they dared to criticize the Manchu rulers. The punishment for writing anti-Qing literature was torture (death by a thousand cuts) and death to your entire family line, not just yourself.
>>983448
I think we all know the answer to that, anon, it's just very hurtful to the comrades.
they manged to kill more commie than the rest of the world. I am fine with that.
>ITT muh gorillions, strawmans and memes
>>983609
Honestly if i were the chinks after nationalization I would have genocided turks, mongols and any other nomad ethnicity.
>>978415
Lies
>>978308
Stalin fought against international communism. Brought back art, music, the family, and marriage. He abolished abortion. I'm not a communist but he did do good things.
>>978671
Then why didn't they? 1912-1927 was a rather long time.
>>979624
Better than most of the world desu
>>981942
Wrong on mao, but I get the point
>>983452
Bait
Stabilization after years of civil war and societal collapsed. That's why people endured their human rights violations, it was better than the alternative.
>>983675
Lack welfare state
>>984459
They also made more commies than anyone in the world and killed a whole lot of non-commies.
>>984947
China's history pre-PRC was JUST tier
>>984980
I mean 1850-1950 history
widespread weight loss programs
>>984980
>China's history pre-Xaopeng was JUST tier
If it hadn't been for them, China and Russia would be in much the same place as India and most of Africa.
>>981942
gommies gilled millions is based on the crudest kind of statistical juggling possible.
>>978308
Just lil shit like doubling life expectancy, mass literacy, slashing infant mortality, ending unemployment, generating reforms which produced very charming art and culture, gender equality (with an exception in Stalin's case), housing, ending famine (you fuckers have no scope of historical reference on that).
They eliminated objectively evil and worthless people like kulaks and landlord, who richly deserved it for millenia of abuses they had perpetuated on the landless.
The whole red tsar/red emperor hypothesis shit is really ridiculous, they were a couple dudes had promenant positions on some high level councils and weren't rain gods.
