>world's oldest religion still in existence
>4000+ years old
>1+ billion followers
>Hinduism has no founder, single teacher, single God, nor any prophets
>Hindus believe in practice (what you do) rather than what you believe
>Hindus believe in reincarnation
>Hindus believe in karma
>Hindus aim to live in a way that will cause each of their lives to be better than the life before
>A hindu's goal is to work towards self-realization so they can become one with Brahman so they don't have to reincarnate anymore.
An overview: http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/homework/religion/hinduism.htm
What are your thoughts on Hinduism? It seems like a more complete religion than Christianity/Judaism/Buddhism, no?
>>963933
At least by my reckoning, it isn't a religion so much as a constellation of similar religions with some overlap. As you point out, there's no founder, no single teacher, no universally believed in God or Gods, no doctrine, no set of beliefs or actions that you can point to and say
>You need to do/believe X. and avoid doing/believing Y, to be a Hindu.
It would be like calling "Abrahamics" a single religion because they all believe in one God, claim it's the same God (more or less) and have at least some notions in common; and that's clearly ridiculous.
>>963933
I think Hinduism ties more in with philosophy. It's more representative of Indian spirituality. I don't think it was really meant to be used outside the east. Hinduism was heavily influenced by Buddhism anyway.
Somewhat related, their prayers are super weird. My mom is an Indian Muslim and she is still weird-ed out by Hinduism despite being surrounded by them. A lot of Indian muslims think Hinduism is super weird for some reason.
>>963954
>Hinduism
>influenced by Buddhism
Pretty sure it's the other way around, anon.
>>963965
Yes but before buddhism moves eastwards Ashoka adopted it and it started fusing with Hinduism. They both take from each other.
>>963954
>Hinduism was heavily influenced by Buddhism anyway.
Buddhism is 2500 years old.
Hinduism is 4000-5000 years old.
I think you mean Buddhism was influenced by Hinduism.
It's said that Jesus in his teens and early twenties spent time in India and perhaps studied Hinduism and was a "guru" there. Any proof of this?
>>963979
Nope. In fact, there's really no indication whatsoever that Jesus had any non Judaic or Hellenic influences if you go by what's attributed to him in the gospels.
If the historic Jesus went anywhere to study or teach, it would almost certainly have been Babylon.
>>963979
It sounds plausible but it seems too far from his birthplace.
Hinduism is weird.
>this temple in my city
>stuffed dolls that look like little girls in halloween costumes that they worship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTXGC-mHGEk
Buddhism is also weird as fuck, temple in my city:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z7tO_EWt7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0f9OB-XxTI
>>963951
>Hinduism isn't a religion.
Get a load of this retard.
>>963951
Not having the strict constraints of Western Religions doesn't mean it's not still a religion.On the other hand traditional Buddhism, in nature, was suppose to be pure spiritualism/philosophy. The two versions still exist today with the traditional Tibetan Buddhism and the "Great Vehicle" Mahayana Buddhism which is more common and treats the Buddha as an actual god rather then a role model/teacher.
the dhamma is right though
>>964004
That's not quite my point, I'm not trying to make a divide between religion on one hand and spiritualism or philosophy on the other.
Suppose someone goes up to you and says
>Hello Anon, I'm a Hindu.
What information could you use about him to lead to the conclusion
>No, you aren't.
For instance, if someone went up to me and claimed they were Christian, but it turns out they didn't believe that Jesus was an incarnation of God, or of the importance of the resurrection and dying for the sins of humanity, I can pretty reasonably say that they're not Christian. They might have some Christian inspired syncretic beliefs, but they're not the genuine article.
As far as I'm aware, there's no real such litmus test for Hinduism, which is why it's not so much a single religion, but rather a cluster of multiple related religions.
>>964003
Try reading it again.
>>963971
no, he fused it to his particular rulership of the Mauryan empire. Others after him did the same with jain or hindu temples
>>963995
those are religious idols
>>963933
>4000+ years old
Lol is that what your gutu tells you?
>>963933
I don't get the point of religion.
>>963933
Hinduism started not earlier than the 6th century BCE
>Post-Vedic religions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Vedic_religion#Post-Vedic_religions
>>964113
they did keep several aspects of ye olde dravidian tradition
>>964123
Cont.
Before Hinduism there existed the Vedic religion, which is not native to India, and before that the religion of the Hindus Civilization of which we know practically nothing.
>>964021
>Hello Anon, I'm a Hindu.
>What information could you use about him to lead to the conclusion
>No, you aren't.
Genetics, since Hinduism is an ancestral religion like Judaism, and Hindu is the name of an ethnic group.
As for faith, there is none.
Memorizing the Aqidah or the Nicene Creed is no guarantee that you aren't an apostate or heretic.
Conversely, giving the wrong answer is, per se, no evidence of unbelief or schism. Catholicism calls this material heresy, as opposed to formal heresy.
There is no way to measure beliefs or opinions.
>>963933
And yet, they still can't poo in the loo.
>>964138
>not native.
In what sense, The polities that formed in India since the migration had a varying degree of vedic influence.
Its just an unorganized pagan religion. It be like if the Teutonic order never invaded the balts then modern day they claimed a whole bunch of central ideas that can't exist in an unorganized religion without central anything then hipsters flocked to it
They have shiva death cults, you would have to go to a sub cult to get actual principles
>>964162
>They have shiva death cults,
and I am sure you will have a source for this.
>>963979
Kinda remind me of this
>>964166
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver
>>964159
You're right I was being somewhat simplistic, but not without reason. For, if you go back far enough not even the Roman religion is native to Rome. But it must be said that in a sense the Vedic religion is not native to India as to emphazice, contra hindu religionists, the folly of the claims of antiquity (let alone factuality) concernign their beliefs.
>>963954
Other way around anon. The Buddha was born in a Brahman society. Basically early Hinduism. Buddhism was a sect starting after the man known as the Buddha reached enlightenment while living as a human
>>963954
And their prayers are Sanskrit. It's about creating a harmony that is mistake free. Transcending sound into a vibration or frequency that opens your senses to the oneness
>>963979
No proof but it does make some sense of his missing years from the Middle East. I think it is a real possibility
The Vedic was a polytheistic religion of a herder and warrior nomadic people from Central Asia, the Indo-Aryans. As they settled India they began to absorb elements and deities of the aboriginal populations. Vishnu is a minor god in the Vedas, and Krishna is unheard of.
They worship the devas. The main ones are Indra and Agni, the warrior and the priest gods. They pray mostly for victory in battle, children, cattle and long lives. After death they believe they join the fathers (pitrs) and there is no concept of reincarnation. They perform animal sacrifices. They are not pacifists nor vegetarian.
The Vedas consider a sin to subvert the rta, or universal law, and the deities Mitra and Varuna are specially linked to the function of upholding the rta, Varuna being a quasi-supreme, omniscient deity. Varuna is an ashura. There's not in yet, the Vedas, a clear-cut division between devas and ashuras (later, in Hinduism, considered gods and demons, respectively).
What else?
>>964004
This happens in most religions. The enlightened ones are eventually pedestalized. Not sure if that's a word but it should always remain that the teachings stay on the pedestal
>>964227
>missing years
Prophets becoming prophetic in their 30s is a meme bro.
>>964232
Priestly caste performing the rites for the others, use of the soma drug as an entheogen, cremation...
>>964232
Is the basis dualism and nature? Does it have any correlation with astrology? They seemed to have intuitive knowledge of particle physics on some level? Y/N
>>964253
Shit. I'm bout to be 30. I'm not ready
>>964256
Thanks bro.
They go as fat as deify a drug, the soma, into the god of the same name. Some have called Soma the Vedic Bacchus. In Hinduism Soma will become identical with Chandramas the god of the moon.
One female deity, Aditi, is considered to be mother of a solar and luminous class of gods named the Aditiya, of which Vishnu is one. She is somewhat primordial, not unlike, say, Aither or Night in the Hesiodic Theogony.
In later Upanishadic speculation (brihadaranyaka upanishad) , Aditi is said to refer to the state of non-manifetation of the impersonal Brahman.
In even later, Puranic Hinduism, they turn her into a woman, spouse of one sage Kashyapa. However, since Vishnu has now turned into the supreme god, Aditi can no longer be his mother, so they even fall silent about it (the Puranas being highly contradictory texts) or say that she is the mother of one of Vishnu's incarnations.
Fun fact: in the wikipedia article on Aditi they don't even mention Vishnu as one of her sons in the Veda, but downright change his name to Urukrama, the supposed Vishnu incarnation. Probably the editing of one Hindu religionist.
>>963954
>Hinduism was heavily influenced by Buddhism anyway.
You meant to say the complete opposite thing, right?
>>963979
No evidence whatsoever, it's just people trying to think about what happened between the time Jesus was 12 and 30.
>>964261
>astrology
There is a exceedingly beautiful song in the Rig Veda that some consider to contain some astrological speculations.
>48 Twelve are the fellies, and the wheel is single; three are the naves. What man hath understood it?
Therein are set together spokes three hundred and sixty, which in nowise can be loosened.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01164.htm
But this is the least important thing as this entire hymn is filled with the most poetically-inspired metaphysical speculations.
>>964270
no buddhism superior chinese religion
>>964295
eeheehehehehehe
In short, to claim that the Vedic religion and Hinduism are one and the same is like saying that ancient Israelite religion and Christianity are one and the same. It is a wild claim but there are people dumb enough to believe in them, aka the majority.
>>964305
Can the Upanishads be considered to be part of Hinduism as opposed to Vedic religion?
>>964319
I personally consider the Upanishads the Swan Song of the Vedic Period. The Upanishads (that is the older Upanishads; there are later, sectarian counterfeit Upanishads, such as Yoga Upanishads, etc.), etc. are called the Vedanta, that is the end of the Vedas, and this can have an unexpected meaning.
In the Upanishads the highest deities are Prajapati and Hiranyagarbha. This is attested in the earliest Buddhist scriptures which scholars consider contemporary with the Upanishads.
The Hindu "counter-reform" is later than both and superimpose new layers of deities and worlds above these. Hiranyagarbha is turned into Brahma, and Rudra into Shiva, themselves forming a trinity with Vishnu. The Puranas don't agree amongst themselves as to who is the supreme god, the Vishnu sect claiming it is Vishnu and the Shivaite sect, Shiva. (There were other, more ancient sects claming the honor for say, Savitar, Surya, etc., but the only one that remained besides these two is the Shakti sect.)
The Vishnu sect pay lip service to the Upanishads while teaching an entirely new doctrine based on new, fabricated "Vedic literatures".
The Shivaite sect is somewhat more faithful, but the school of Advaita Vedanta is the only currently existing school that actually takes the Upanishads seriously.
The Gayatri mantra, the most sacred mantra of Hinduism, is ostensibly dedicated to a Vedic god, Savitar (which may or may not be identical with Surya).
>May we attain that excellent glory of Savitar the God:
>So May he stimulate our prayers.
Sectarian Hindus will claim with a bold-faced that, "You see, where it says Savitar it actually is meant ...(Krishna, Vishnu, etc., insert favorite god here)...", as the Savitar/Surya sect is no longer alive to respond.
But in the Ramayana one can still find this remarkable passage about the god Surya/Savitar:
>He is Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Skanda, Prajapati. He is also Mahendra, kubera, kala, yama, soma and varuna.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adityahridayam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra
>>964519
This is of course not contradictory to the Vedic verse:
>They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuṇa, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutmān.
To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Mātariśvan.
That is all gods are really one, a doctrine that only the Advaitins follow. The Vishnu sect, however, will have none of it. According to them (and contrary to the Vedas, but not to their own, later scriptures), Vishnu cannot be equated with the other "demi-gods" (that's how they translate devas into English).
Thoughts on Nithyananda?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEK8_leQ3fQ
Many in his sect/cult claim he has healed people, awakened their kundalini and chakras, taught them how to do the same, etc. He often gives all his knowledge away for free through youtube and those who attend his seminars at temples. Some pay as high as $10k to learn from him directly. Anyone who comes to his temple can live there and eat for free. Is he a living God as his sect/cult claims?
This girl had her third eye chakra awakened by him and now she can read things with her eyes closed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtLkzg8bFgA
A number of his following are American/European people who came to India and had their life changed, they are now his devotees...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0plKbJFIps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq9U0CAj3MU
>>964537
as an agnostic hindu, I don't believe a bit of what he says. But if that helps people find comfort in life, more power to them.
Hinduism affords one a colourful and fascinating study, but beware of sectarian gurus and low IQ Krishnaite fanatics and their "Vedic" teachings, contained in their "Vedic literatures" written "6000 years ago" (by which they mean the Bhagavad Gita and the Shrimad Bhagavatan).
>>964537
>cult of personality
>money
>>964576
yes, the human mind sees pattern where it does. If they serve a charitable cause and don't cause harm to society, it shouldn't be a problem
>>964576
inb4 mass suicide
>>964519
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitr
>>964537
Sounds like a typical godman scam artist. India has a very big problem with these types.
Some people here seem to have a bit simplified view of Hinduism. After all, there is a difference in Vedic Tribal gods (such as Rudra) who were later "transformed" to Gods such as Shiva with all kind of different Shaivite-traditions and meditation practices.
For example, the creator god of Hindu trimurti is Brahma (could be contrasted to Jehovah or Allah of Judaism/Islam) has less than 10 temples in whole of India dedicated to the creator God.
Contrast this to Roman/Greek polytheism were temples of Jupiter/Zeus were more than common and were widely worshipped.
Hindu metaphysics and religion differ widely what commonly people associate with Monotheism. One could say that the Sage Vyasa for divided the original Veda to four different parts was a manifestation of Brahma, but you do not worship him as an actual God in a sense Jesus was the son of Jehovah.
>>964620
>scam artist
His organization spans 50 countries with 10 million followers worldwide.
He's one great scam artist..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Nithyananda
All allegations against him by ex-devotees and the media have proven to be false.
"Nithyananda says that when he was around 9 years old he regularly met Arunagiri Yogiswara, an incarnation of Lord Shiva, at his Samadhi within the premises of Arunachala temple at Tiruvannamalai and that they talked for hours day after day. According to Nithyananda, Arunagiri eventually told him, "Dear one, you and I are one. We can never get separated. But the play is over. You will not miss me any longer. We are one" and the form of Arunagiri Yogiswara merged into his body and disappeared."
"According to Nithyananda when he was about 12 years old a meditation technique given to him by Annamalai Swamigal resulted in his "awakening to the realization that I was one with the whole of Existence and everything was I!" Nithyananda says that the effects of this experience, that he now calls satori, lasted for about three days and was the beginning of a new phase of spiritual development in his life. He says that it has enabled him to see all around him whenever he wishes."
"According to Nityananda, he changed his name from Rajashekar after a mystical experience in which Mahavatar Babaji appeared to him in a darshan and gave him the name Nityananda."
>>964537
that water bottle on the side got me some type of way lol
>>964863
can't unsee it.
>>964863
what do you expect, he is eternaly wise, he knows not to drink the filthy river water like the rest of them
>>964882
this
>>964537
>Is he a living God as his sect/cult claims?
No, because that's stupid. Look up placebo
Also, it's kind of odd no one here has touched on shaktism. It's literally the coolest, most complex, and redpilled aspect of hinduism.
>>964761
The church of Scientology has a wide range of influence so you'll pardon me if that doesn't impress.
Obviously I can't say for certain whether or not he's actually god, although charging money for sermons and miracles leads me to believe he is not. I'm more inclined to believe he's a Sathya Sai Baba type figure.
>>963972
Age means nothing when the major development took place after Buddhists shook the status quo. Reincarnation, karma, nirvana, ahimsa(non violence) became part of local Hindu after Buddhists and the Jains took to the street and the hearts of the locals. You can see the divergence from the ancient ritualistic practice in the Upanishads. The Upanishads is consider the core of modern Hinduism in terms of beliefs and philosophy. It was written to counter the Buddhist influence and by counter I mean adopting what they saw as useful from Buddhism and marketing as Hindu. This practice reached its peak at Shankaras works as he adapted Nagarjuna, a Buddhist philosopher that established the Mahayana core central view, and drove the nail on the coffin of the last remaining Indian Buddhists.
Hindus were largely influenced by the Buddhists. That's not to say Buddhism was not influenced by Hindus. They debated heavily and learned proper debating techniques and perfected their vocabularies and such.
a new thread if you'd like to participate:
>>965312
>>965316
Any proof about all of those not being part of the entire cultural milieu of hinduism before buddhism shook the status quo
The concept of karma, moksha and rebirth aren't originally buddhist concepts.
>>965329
See all the posts on the Vedic religion ITT. Some scholars even call the religion before the Jain and Buddhist "revolution" Brahmanism to distinguish it from Hinduism. There's no concept of karma, moksha etc. in the Vedas. You're right that they're not originally Buddhist, probably Jain and Buddhism mixed Jainism and Brahmanism into a new syncretic religion that was highly successful.
>>963979
Most likely Jesus spent his time from 12-30 studying under Joseph to learn carpentry, it was common to learn your father's trade. And he probably spent a lot of time in the synagogues in Nazareth
>>963933
>A hindu's goal is to work towards self-realization so they can become one with Brahman so they don't have to reincarnate anymore.
And why is that desirable?
>>965398
yes, but hinduism isn't just vedic stuff, but also based on the culturally assimilated dravidians. The post migration societies did adapt several architectural styles and systems from the IVC people
>>965416
Its like playing modern WoW and realizing that the game is shit and with that great realization, you are free of your addiction
>>965329
Those concepts are from ascetic tradition which both Jains and Buddhist are.
>>965462
are you implying that ascetic tradition was practiced exclusively by buddhists and jains?
>>965461
>yes, but hinduism isn't just vedic stuff
Yes and this is what is most interesting is that Hinduism is a constantly evolving religion that, instead of rebeling against tradition and destroying their own culture they do their best to connect and harmonize the oldest scriptural and ritualistic elements with the newest spiritual practices and insights. Truly a formula for an eternal religion or sanatana dharma.
>>965461
>and with that great realization, you are free of your addiction
I see the analogy but it still doesn't seem attractive when the other option is complete personal extinction.
According to Jesus and the bible...
do Hindus, Buddhists, any other religious person...all go to hell because they don't know Jesus Christ or believe in him?
>>965599
You're free to continue playing the game despite knowing.
>>965483
Where was that implied? What are YOU implying?
>>964148
Ding ding you're born into being a Hindu
>>964405
>The Vishnu sect pay lip service to the Upanishads while teaching an entirely new doctrine based on new, fabricated "Vedic literatures".
what are the fabricated literatures? and can you recommend any books that go into detail on the stuff you have been talking about? like hinduism compared to old Vedic religion.
>>965124
>It's literally the coolest, most complex, and redpilled aspect of hinduism.
elaborate please.
>>964761
>Sathya Sai Baba
... is this really a thing now? Does /his/ now have shifty Hindu guru shills?
Man, and I thought having that creationist shill was weird.
Isn't Zoroastrian older than Hinduism?
>>963933
>>966561
>>966142
It's relation to Hinduism is parallel to the Vajrayana branch of Buddhism. It uses esoteric practices and tantra as a means of worship. Unlike Vajrayana who knew to regulate their teachings many who practice Shaktism are only aware of it's superficial elements. But I guess that's the case with most Hindus.
>>966626
you still havnt really said whats cool and redpilled about shaktism,
>>966783
Ignore the autist. It's a study about controlling fears and fulfilling desires that has important implications for strong AI. It also doubles back upon itself into a study of why you're studying it. The images of goddesses are also more important than the associated symbology, which makes sense since 'information' is really a 2D phenomena meaning that pure knowledge is retrieved from an image, not vice-versa. There's a lot more to pull from shaktism such as the principal role of sex and "swallowing the beast" in sapoent systems.
Basically, while many people are too stupid to get it, Kali is the goddess of athiesm.
>>967521
thanks dude, although im really interested hinduism, i had never heard the term shaktism, thanks for giving me some info on it
since we are talking about hindusim, not long ago i brought the yoga sutra of pantanjali the pic related version, but im having trouble getting through the comentry its not very entertaining to read for me , would flicking through it to read just the short texts be worth it and skip the comentry, or could anybody reccomend me a better version with a more enjoyable comentry perhaps
>>968816
then your view is on point my darling
In the beginning was only Being,
One without a second.
Out of himself he brought forth the cosmos
And entered into everything in it.
There is nothing that does not come from him.
Of everything he is the inmost Self.
He is the truth; he is the Self supreme.
You are that, Shvetaketu; you are that.
When a person is absorbed in dreamless sleep
He is one with the Self, though he knows it not.
We say he sleeps, but he sleeps in the Self.
As a tethered bird grows tired of flying
About in vain to find a place of rest
And settles down at last on its own perch,
So the mind, tired of wandering about
Hither and thither, settles down at last
In the Self, dear one, to whom it is bound.
All creatures, dear one, have their source in him.
He is their home; he is their strength.
There is nothing that does not come from him.
Of everything he is the inmost Self.
He is the truth; he is the Self supreme.
You are that, Shvetaketu; you are that.
>>963933
It's the chaos from when the world was left alone.
But for over 3775 years our world regained contact with God and the revelation was completed 2016 years ago - we just have to train now for the everlasting life.
>ctrl+f: caste
>1 result
????
>>968851
we arnt here to shit post, this is a genuine discusion
>>963933
>What are your thoughts on Hinduism?
Do a miracle proper of a god so I may have an opinion that isn't to discard it inmediately?
Illusion feels good.
>>968851
> caste
They are called "varna", anon.
>>968890
maya, dont pretend you dont know freind
>>968919
oh right
>>968822
>not enjoyable
it wasn't written for the purpose of entertainment.
>>969005
dont be a smart ass , i find reading an enjoyable experiense no matter what its conveying purpose but reading this version is not, i understand what your trying to say but your comment was uneccery and unhelpful
>>968893
There are even less results for "varna", chandala.
>>967521
are there any good books on Shaktism?
>>967521
Where did you learn about this?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/sas/sas01.htm
>>963933
>karma
>avoid reincanation.
> practice over believe
Did the Budha commit plagiarism?
what are your thoughts regarding the influences Christianity has had on Hindu thought and practice? Pic very related
>>971860
No, it's a reformation.
There's no such thing as an Indian religion that's unified in the same way Abrahamic religions are, and at the same time has existed for 4000+ years. The term "Hinduism" originally referred to the high-caste Brahmans in India, and was later used by Indians themselves in the context of establishing a national identity opposed to colonialism. Hinduism as it exists today is perhaps a unified religion, but this form of "Hinduism" did not exist before the 19th century.
What most people understand "Hinduism" to be is a whole bunch of historical traditions that have a lot in common (like a belief in a transcendent God that can be worshiped in various ways, an attribution of sacredness to a body of text called the Vedas, a focus on the concept of Dharma and or on particular forms of ritual, the maintenance of the caste system, an ascetic tradition, etc.), but none of those characteristics are common to all of of those traditions and a distinguishment between people who belong to that supposed religion and people who do not was not an important part of the religiosity of Indians who lived thousands of years ago. Any definition of a "Hinduism" that has existed before the 19th century must be a polythetic one. It's more academically responsible to refer to Vedic religions and religiosity.
Source: An Introduction to Hinduism by Gavin Flood, but you can find this in any introductory book on "Hinduism".
>>971860
Janism is like that too.
>>971860
Other way around.
>>973692
Those ideas are actually older than buddhism in the indian traditions.
RESOURCES FOR:
>Uttara Kaula Trika/Abhinavagupta
https://mega.nz/#F!9EZwWIJA!xtMSg_xVNs8-PjN9jrkZUA
>Saivism/Tantra in general
https://mega.nz/#F!wZBSkQQb!1bh07cpLYEB-niJzy5Kh6w
>Snippets of Vaishnava Tantra:
https://mega.nz/#F!RRRSwIRK!xSx_nRxdiLSAVmqQxJ-Xzw
