So were the Tuskegee Airman all they were cracked up to be. My professor said they were the greatest squadron in the american airforce. Is this true?
>>951942
>My professor said they were the greatest squadron in the american airforce. Is this true?
no
WE WUZ PILOTS
>>951942
Tell that faggot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches
>it's a my imaginary professor said this made-up shit so let's circlejerk thread
>>951988
>Night Witches
>American
>>951942
>My professor said they were the greatest squadron in the american airforce. Is this true?
No, if only because there was no American Air Force until 1946. Tuskeegees and other land-based units were in the United States Army Air Force.
>>951996
he's real. he said they had the best bomber losses. and that whit pilots were to spread out in other units to do well and would fly far from the bombers to try to get more kills.
>>951942
No, they were a good squadron, definitely above average when it came to things like how many of the bombers they escorted got through, but they were hardly the best squadron in their wing, let alone the entire American air forces.
Close second to the San Francisco Airpersons, a squadron composed of transgender furry otherkin.
>>951975
Haha I get it, it's because they're black! Epin maymay lad :D
>>951942
Their reputation is embellished, for good reason, like that of the Buffalo Soldiers. Though many Native Americans find the latter deeply offensive, particularly the myth that their name was given out of honor and respect when Buffalo Solders actually played a major role in the massacres of the Indian Wars.
There has always been race issues in the military, and especially bad in the Army Air Forces during WW2. In England there were incidents like the Bamber Bridge riot during which black members of a Quartermaster Truck Regiment got into a firefight with white MP's in a British town with 5 shot and 1 dead.
The British even requested that African-American GIs not be sent to England to build airbases due to racial tension.
>Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden had the temerity to cast this policy in humanitarian terms, telling American ambassador Winant that the English climate “was badly suited to negroes.”
That British women would accompany blacks led to other riots. In Launceston two MPs were shot. In Leicester one MP was killed. They eventually had to segregate certain pubs and dance halls in Ipswich while in smaller towns whites and blacks had alternating nights of leave.
The commanders were so anal about perception and image, as they hoped to become their own independent military branch, that it was in their best interest to promote the Tuskegee airmen later. That's not to say they weren't good pilots, its just that they flew mostly in the less glamorous Mediterranean Theater.
They were good. Above average probably, but not the best by any means. Plus they were really only used as escort fighters for bombers so they probably didn't have the varied experience of pilots that served in both escort squadrons and attack/interceptor squadrons. They were most likely a good squadron because they were self-contained and flew with the same guys throughout their entire tour(s) which increased unit cohesion. But they weren't anything special in terms of skill when compared to other American pilots. A lot of African-Americans like to push the narrative that the black pilotd were somehow elite though.
Is Red Tails the worst "historical" war movie?
they get hyped because they werent treated particularly well but i dont know if that makes them the best
>>954101
Was the argument against black pilots wholly based on the idea that white men were inherently superior airmen?
>>953433
To be fair, they very well may have been better than your average American pilot, if only because the discriminatory practices meant that if they were going to make very few all-black fighter units, they would be taking the best black pilots they could find.
>>954088
I've heard it's shit, especially from a planefag's perspective. I've yet to see it though, so I'm sticking with Enemy at the Gates as the worst historical movie.
>>954265
Pretty much, otherwise you would of never heard of the tuskegee airmen.
>>954484
Neither of them are anywhere near as bad as 300.
>>954484
>To be fair, they very well may have been better than your average American pilot, if only because the discriminatory practices meant that if they were going to make very few all-black fighter units, they would be taking the best black pilots they could find.
They didn't really want black pilots chances are they just upped the requirements.
It wouldn't be anything new.
>>954659
>literally can't even tell what the fuck 2 or 3 of the questions are asking
Am I illiterate?
>>954265
At the time, they also seriously believed asiatics were physically incapable of being good pilots due to the slanty eyes, and so reports of Japanese pilot's skilled flying against the Chinese were ignored, which was a factor in getting surprised and BTFOd by the IJN for the first 6 months of the Pacific War.
>>952049
>>952155
>>953433
>>954484
It should also be noted that they didn’t go into combat until the latter part of the war, when the Germans were already fucked and everybody could see the end was coming.
Also; Supreme Asshole Mayor of Detroit, Coleman Young was a member of the Tuskegee Airman.
>>951988
Sabaton?
>>954088
I wouldn't say the worst film. But it's definitely shit
>>954088
It's horrible, but about average.
Top Gun is filled with all sorts of goofy plane shit, but people give that a pass.
>>954939
You could say the same thing about all American pilots in Europe.
>>954265
A combination of that and belief that white pilots should get the glory.
>>954888
Joke's on you, I'm not balding!
>>952142
That's an interesting point, actually. Highly skilled American pilots were removed from their units and rotated back home, either for pilot training or for propaganda/raising war bonds. With a small, segregated unit, the good pilots would have remained concentrated within that unit.
>>955214
But it was American pilots who dealt the bulk of the damage to the Luftwaffe.
http://don-caldwell.we.bs/jg26/thtrlosses.htm
>>955210
they give that a pass because they used actual Tomcats in it.
also I don't really remember much goofy plane shit from Top Gun, it was pretty grounded.
>>951975
Yes they were. Also, read the board rules.
>>951942
>greatest squadron in the american airforce
relative to what? kill ratios? sorties? time served? Highest number of aces?
Assuming we're talking about American squadrons in general, I'd go for VB-6, VS-6 and VB-3 (among others) for royally fucking Japan over at the Battle of Midway.
Sinking 4 aircraft carriers within 48 hours is not something to be underestimated.
>pic semi related
>>954780
The test was designed to have ambiguous as fuck answers with it being up to the person who marks the test and one wrong answer fucks you up.
One guy can mark you getting 13/13 and other guy who really hates your guts can make it 9/13 or even just 12/13.
If you mean that all wanted them for escorts, yes.
Why the fuck are you people so racist?
I'm not sure they where the best but they where really skilled
>>955906
The thread hasn't been racist at all overall opinion is that they were good, but not the best and were a bit overrated.
Being above average means they performed better than most white pilots which would make up the average.
>>955641
This brings up a really good point in that there's no real way to measure "good pilots."
Number of kills, number of aces, etc. it's all incredibly situational.
There are German aces with well over three hundred kills. American aces don't even come close. Based on that you might think "well Germans were ten times the pilots" that Americans were. Except that's not the issue at all. German pilots who started the war, started off well trained, with good tactics, and enjoyed clubbing seals on the eastern front. Those that survived were quite good, but by the end of the war, they're completely outnumbered by these massive western air forces, so you have far more targets of opportunity.
On the other hand, if you're an American pilot in the pacific, and one of completely equal skill, then you can fly mission after mission without even seeing an enemy airplane. You and the other american pilots completely outnumber the japanese. And then, even if you do get lucky enough to see five or so enemy planes and shoot them down, you get rotated back stateside to train new pilots.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that the average American pilot was better than their counterparts in other air forces, simply due to the high quality of training that they received. Even German Luftwaffe pilots and high command, those with really high number of kills, remarked during the war that this was the case. The Germans had neither the population base, nor the low attrition numbers to compete. If you look at the sort of training regimens the Brits, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese, and the Germans put their pilots through, Americans are right at the top.
So you can't really make claims about who was the best of the best, but you can, I think, say which units were more likely to have really good training, and the most potential. Now, add in this point >>955232, and Tuskegee Airmen were probably quite exceptional.
>>956200
>This brings up a really good point in that there's no real way to measure "good pilots."
I don't know of any metric to determine a good pilot but you could probably get an idea from the results obtained and the amount of time spent in the air.
>I don't think it's a stretch to say that the average American pilot was better than their counterparts in other air forces, simply due to the high quality of training that they received. Even German Luftwaffe pilots and high command, those with really high number of kills, remarked during the war that this was the case. The Germans had neither the population base, nor the low attrition numbers to compete. If you look at the sort of training regimens the Brits, the Americans, the Russians, the Japanese, and the Germans put their pilots
through, Americans are right at the top.
Americans had the resources to train their pilots later in the war.
>>956200
>There are German aces with well over three hundred kills.
Allegedly. There's a huge disparity between the kill claims of Luftwaffe units and reported losses by the VVS. And I'm not talking like 100 or so unaccounted for planes that could be explained away by propaganda. I mean units being credited with more enemy aircraft than were ever actually committed to theaters.
>>956200
Didn't the americans also pull back their aces for training while the germans kept them in the air?
Anyway this is pretty close to the answer one should give on direct comparisons like these, it entirely depends on the circumstances.
Like the classic Tiger vs. Sherman argument. Sure the Tiger is more combat capable but also harder to maintain, costlier to produce etc. And that's not even cutting into the doctrine, which would entirely invalidate comparisons between say a Mi-24 and an Apache despite them having somewhat similar armamants.
Given their limited resources and the obstacles they faced I'd say their performance was exceptional by comparison. May be biased, I've met like ten since I was born.
