Most overrated president?
Reagan and it's not even a debate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_results
Probably FDR
>>947281
They're both fetishized by their respective parties, but at least Ron had 8 years to Jack's <3
FDR
nothing he did, except Lend Lease, helped America.
Reagan and Kennedy are definitely up there.
I can at least understand JFK's a little as he was ballsy, stood up to the MIC, and got his head blown off before running his full term.
Reagan on the other had was a shit show from start to finish and yet he is fetishized by so many. It's disgusting to watch.
FDR and Lincoln get honorable mentions.
>>947323
You're truly an idiot.
I think FDR's a war criminal, and was for the most part beholden to certain corporate interests (capital-heavy ones, not manufacturing), but suggesting nothing he did improved America's stature as a nation (a dubious goal) is just plain wrong, as almost anyone who lived through that time can easily tell you, and which all historical surveys of standard of living support.
The United States emerged as the major world power after WWII in large part due to many of Roosevelt's decisions, and proceeded with great success to wreak havoc, and aid in wreaking havoc upon the rest of the hemisphere, and much of the rest of the world.
Definitely pic related.
If only because he's fetishized by the Right despite being practically the antithesis of everything they stand for. It should be Eisenhower, not Raygun that gets all the respect.
>>947276
I'd like to mention some of the most underrated presidents: Fillmore, Grant, Arthur, Cleveland, and Lincoln (for trade policy).
Donald Trump
>>947276
Does anyone really give a shit about JFK anymore? He was primarily a boomer icon (Reagan too) and as they fade so does his reputation.
>>947423
>Donald Trump becomes the new Ronald Reagan of the Republican Party
>>947392
>The United States emerged as the major world power after WWII in large part due to many of Roosevelt's decisions,
True.
>and proceeded with great success to wreak havoc, and aid in wreaking havoc upon the rest of the hemisphere, and much of the rest of the world.
The gommies did that. Are you a gommie?
>>947472
I'm assuming this is a joke. Communists from Soviet Russia are the ones who plunge Latin America into years of devastating civil war? You're really suggesting this?
>>947392
I'm talking about the Depresssion.
most of FDR's policies made things worse. he also stripped a huge chunk of gun rights away and left us with social security
>>947479
Not that guy, but while America and teh CIA did a lot to fuck shit up, to say the communists had nothing to do with the destabilization of Latin America is a bit silly desu
>>947479
>You're really suggesting this?
Of course not. >muh American imperialism. Gommies dindu nuffin wrong
>>947483
>nd left us with social security
Which was a sustainable policy until short-sighted raiding in the 60's.
>>947490
They certainly had a relatively minor role to play, in terms of intelligence operations and risking nuclear war with the missile crisis, but it's nothing compared to the U.S. Russia never did anything comparable to even the first post-WWII imperial incursion on the part of the U.S. into Latin America (the 1954 coup in Guatemala, which pretty directly caused a 30-year civil war), let alone the overthrow of Goulart, school of the Americas, Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay, and, most brutally, Nicaragua and El Salvador. Seriously, one example of anything at all the Soviets did that comes close to such egregious breaches of Latin American nations' rights to self-determination.
>>947276
Did this man go against the FED? I've read people claiming both that he did and both that he didn't. I didn't really understand each side's point of view though, hence I'm asking this.
>>947541
USSR did exactly the same inside its sphere of influence. In Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, etc.
>>947424
The man is inseparable from space travel.
SPAAAAAACE!!!
>>947521
In the case of Latin America, the two cases are hardly comparable. The Soviet Union was probably the world's second-largest imperial power, but their international crimes are nothing compared to the US'. Naturally, this was probably just because they weren't as powerful on the global stage.
Internally, the first thirty-five or so years involved massive repression, and civil liberties were severely curtailed for decades after that, but by the 60s they had almost no homeless or indigent people and close to zero unemployment with a relatively high standard of living in most areas. Considering where they started from, that's pretty remarkable.
The world is a complicated place, but it's a fair general statement that all states tend to act quite wickedly, and we must not forgive any of them for it.
>>947538
there is the other problem.
when you create a program to give people bread. the candidate that promises more bread, gets more votes.
but someone has to pay for that bread.
which brings us to the other problem. when you have government run old people benefits. You have to keep more of your population working age and paying in, than pension age and taking out. which in the Western world, has caused massive immigration from latin america, africa and the south west asian countries.
>>947554
Aduhhhh.
Hungary is obviously an out-and-out case of this sort of behavior, pretty comparable to U.S. actions in Latin America. The same is true for Poland, Ethiopia (though it should be noted that there, the Soviet Union didn't play any part in the establishment of the Derg and had relatively cool relations with it for some time), and Afghanistan.
Czechoslovakia is a bit of a different case, but of course is unforgivable.
What does any of this have to do with what I said before, though?
>>947472
>The gommies did that
The only way you could possibly say or think this is if you're totally ignorant of the United State's history with Latin America going back to the 19th century. Fuck's sake, look at Guatemala.
On topic, Reagan is overrated but he's hardly the demon the left made him out to be. Granted, Iran/contra, the war on drugs, and his response to AIDS were all massive blunders, but he was far more willing to compromise with Democrats in congress than anybody seems to remember.
>>947554
>Ethiopia
If you're referring to the Derg overthrowing Haile Selassie, that was largely a result of Selassie's policy failures. Soviet military aid to the country wasn't a bad thing, the fucking Somalis were trying to tear off a sizable part of the country because Siad Barre was trying his hand at grabbing Somali lebensraum.
>>947571
>but someone has to pay for that bread
They did themselves by paying into the system. SS was just a govt.-mandated investment plan until raiding by Congress turned it into a pension-like system.
>>947628
it can never be fixed. as the other side will claim the "fixers" are stealing your bread. thus getting them the votes.
>>947719
I wasn't arguing that it could be fixed, I was arguing that it started as a benign, sustainable policy and was eventually subverted by greed.
In less than 1 term...
>Prevented Nuclear Armageddon (Cuba)
>Signed the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty
>Established Apollo Program
>Established Peace Corps
>Laid Foundation for Civil Rights Movement
>Abolished the Federal Death Penalty
>
>>947276
At least you can say he was open minded
>>947292
>14 Franklin Pierce
>>947276
Jackson is like by some on here despite being a cunt that fucked over the nation
>all this Reagan was inconsequential posting
He took Goldwater's unpopular platform and made it popular.
>>948324
>failed CIA invasion of Cuba
>nearly starts nuclear war
>Lets Soviet Union build the Berlin Wall in exchange for removing missiles from cuba
>got us involved in Vietnam
Kennedy was another useless Daddy's Money president. Like FDR and Bush Jr.
>>948805
In execution, Reagan was everything Goldwater hated.
He started the pandering to the Religious Right. Uncontrollable huge military industrial complex spending. Hughes Amendment.
>>947276
Theodore Roosevelt.
>muh Panama Canal
>muh big stick policy
>muh national parks
>muh 'the Germans are going to take over the US if we don't stop them in Belgium'
Eisenhower
>>949555
>big stick
>national parks
The Philippines were disgraceful, but why do you want to sell the rape of American land to the corporate entity.
>panama canal
Cutting travel time by months is bad or something?
>belgium
refresh my memory
>>947292
>Polk isn't in any of the top ten's
>>948427
The was the fourteenth president you nutsack
>>949585
I hope this is a joke, friend.
>>949284
>Hughes amendment
HOLLIS VS. HOLDER WHEN
>>949596
In the non-academic polls and the party poll he isn't even listed. Why don;t people know about the guy responsible for the western half of the country!!
FDR and Wilson. Both were among the worst.
>>947276
Reagan is the most overrated by FAR.
Most underrated would be Carter and Nixon.
Most overrated: Obama
Actually worst: Woodrow Wilson
>>947276
Probably, yes, due to the fact that it's hard to criticize a guy when you watch his head asplode.
>>949639
I think Obama has surpassed Wilson in terms of absolute damage to the Republic.
>>949647
Wilson still created Income Tax, IRS, American Intervention in Foreign Wars, and the Federal Reserve.
>>949647
It's possible, but Wilson's damage was worldwide. Austria-Hungary dissolution for example.
>>949647
In what ways has he damaged the republic?
>>949656
Obama's intervention in Libya and Syria have flooded Europe with Refugees, created the greatest terror group in modern history, and damaged America's reputation in Europe.
then his poor handling of egypt's revolution and elections. supporting the Muslim Brotherhodo, a known terror group, just because they were elected.
his poor handling of Crimea and the proxy war in southeast ukraine.
his lack of response to China building islands and stealing territory from SEAsian nations.
continued the elimination of rights and legal protections of americans started under bush's patriot act.
obamacare and supreme court rulings. giving the government the power to make you buy products from for profit companies.
doubled the national debt with his democrat congress. giving most of the money to the super rich.
>>949693
>flooded Europe with Refugees
Actually what flooded Europe with refugees was dumbshit Europeans not enforcing their own border policies.
Agree with the rest though.
>>949693
While I agree with you that all these things are issues, I would argue that only the last two have damaged the Republic as a political institution of governance. The rest are damaging to American interests abroad but do not pose a direct threat to how the government operates.
>>949693
Well Europe has virtually no system for vetting migrants that claim refugee status other than an interview. That's surely not evidence of anything significant.
K
>>947538
>Which was a sustainable policy until short-sighted raiding in the 60's.
It was never a fucking sustanable policy. Social Security from the very outset was a fucking ponzi scheme, as people who were old at the time, were able to collect as soon as it was implemented without ever having to pay into it.
Furthermore, the methods which Roosevelt used to ensure his social security remained legal was absolutly disugsting. He sold it to the people and Congress as system where the taxes used to collect would be by LAW only to be used for Social Security. Yet, at the same time to sell this shit to the Supreme Court he made the argument that the taxes collected simply entered the general pool and then were allocated to social security.
>>947722
>I was arguing that it started as a benign, sustainable policy and was eventually subverted by greed
Even assuming the policy is never to get raided, it really isn't sustainable. The way the system worked out is that from the very beginning, it was a ponzi esque scheme. People at or near the line of retirement would receive greater benefits than they paid out. They were floated by the excess of youth in the nation due to population growth and the free money received by people who died before reaching collecting age. The way the system functioned from the beginning required the maintenance of the status quo in life expediency and population growth.
>>949702
Well, the refugees had to be created somehow.
>>949693
>Creating villains/scapegoats abroad while weakening our European competitors and increasing security on a national and business scale
Sounds pretty sneaky.
>>949555
>muh big stick policy
>Not loving the big stick policy
The big stick, when applied properly, can be a powerful tool, because the REAL purpose of the big stick is to scare people into submitting to your demands. Sadly, our government today is retarded and actually uses the big stick in every opportunity to extract even the smallest concession from our opponents.
>>949752
That's irrelevant. The Europeans could have just said "not our problem" and turn them back.
Moreover, many of them aren't even from Syria and Lybia (and Lybia was primarily a French operation while Obongo just tagged along).
>>949714
They all should have been returned to Turkey. As there is no war or oppression in Turkey. At least they should have been all stopped and camped in Greece. As the law that EU follows says they have to take refuge in their EU nation of entry.
what is the worst thing about this. Is that they are all going to Germany specifically. So someone in Turkey, told them about Germany's massive welfare state and overly liberal nature. so they aren't refugees. They are economic migrants. Looking to leech off nonbelievers, like the Koran tells them to.
>>949761
France and UK could not have done what they did in Libya with out the USA to support them.
They had run out of missiles and bombs to use and has to get American supplies.
>>949767
True, but Libya wouldn't be bombed in the first place if Sarkozy wasn't asspained about Ghaddafi.
fuck no
sanctioned the Moon project
greatest achievement since the alphabet or the pyramids
>no one posts legitimate reasons why Reagan is overrated
>liberals jerking each other off: the thread
>>949864
Reaganomics was only successful in the short term and caused greater economic decline in later decades.
The Reagan Doctrine led to the strengthening of terrorist movements which came back to bite us in the ass.
To be clear, I haven't read up on most of his administration, but those are my two biggest concerns with him.
>>948324
>death penalty is bad
Kill yourself
>>949957
It is incredibly expensive, doesn't act as a deterrent, and we are the only respectable nation that does it still.
>>949963
Kill yourself faggot pedo
>>949963
>and we are the only respectable nation that does it still
So? We're also the only respectable nation that's been to the moon. "But everyone else does it" is never a good justification.
>>949977
There's two countries that don't use the metric system and haven't been to the moon (Liberia and Burma)
>>949988
UK uses Imperial still and even weigh things in "stone".
>>949988
>Liberia and Burma
Wow, you never would have thought those guys had their shit together.
>>949596
>makes promise
>fulfills promise
>declines candidacy
Everything a president should be.
If it was Tricky Dick in power, then none of us would probably be here. You can't be overrated if you pretty much saved the world.
>>947562
Communists managed to kill more people on accident than the United States did, which of course doesn't include communist crimes. Call us jews but don't delude yourself.
>>950866
Stalin killed more jews than Hitler.
>>947423
You have to be 18+ to post on this website
>>949653
>Austria-Hungary dissolution
How is this a bad thing?
>>948324
>Prevented Nuclear Armageddon (Cuba)
his weakness was the cause of that and at that point MAD was not a thing. A nuke fight would have ended in the USSR being killed as a nation and the USA being maimed, but surviving.
>Signed the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty
significantly hanstringing American weaponization of space, something the US was more capable of doing than the USSR
>Established Apollo Program
and killed Project Orion
>Established Peace Corps
and massivly expanded America's involvement in Vietnam. In doing so, laying the foundation for Johnson to start one of the most disasterous wars in American history.
>Laid Foundation for Civil Rights Movement
That was Eisenhower with Civil Rights Act of 1957
>Abolished the Federal Death Penalty
that's not good thing
>>947550
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he signed an executive order mid way through 1963 ordering it's closure, but obviously after his assasination it never went through.
>>951452
How is it not, holy shit?
>>951472
#rekt
>>951547
Not at all, fails to account for just how pressured Kennedy was by his generals during the crisis, yet he stood fast and the world still exists because of it.
And this retard also suggested that the US would have only been maimed
>>951472
Total annihilation
>>951596
>fear mongering
>>951596
The cause of the Cuban Missile Crisis was the personal weakness of JFK.
>>951692
Not total, the federal death penalty isn't something anyone has an opinion on formed by rather than backed by research.
>>951796
Executed convicts have a 0% re-offense rate.
>>951596
Dude was popping addies like a madman during the crisis, it was his brother that did all the work
>>947392
he also destroyed the good economic system we had and created an economy that can not stand on its own without government assistance.
FDR cucked the entire country and imprisoned japanese people for being japs.
horrible president
>>951812
They also have a 0% reformation rate.
>>949555
>helped revolutionize worker's rights, reform manufacturing and health regulation, and prevent monopolies in the US market
>overrated
>>949761
Libya was literally authorized by America's vote in the UN security council and we launched the first strikes.
We also provided almost all the logistical capability.
You're, in essence, wrong.
>>949555
I'd say you're wrong as he helped project US power past the constraints of the Western hemisphere.
>>951834
I can live with that. So can the people who would otherwise be murdered on their parole.
>muh grasa
>>952188
>being against the death penalty means you think murderers qualify for parole
>>949864
>Reagan is overrated
He wasn't bad, he's just over rated. The Republican Party have made Reagan the second coming of Jesus because they have literally had no likable president to remind people of the good ol' times in the election cycle since dubya in '04 and even then that was himself during wartime.
I mean there was the Iran-Contra Debacle, his massive overspending on the military, among a host of things.
>>952656
Well Republicans could pick from Reagan or having total control of Congress during the Clinton presidency.
Seeing as how nafta was an enormous fuck up, I'd go with Reagan as well
>>951834
>reformation
It shocks me that people still believe in this joke
>>947281
This.
>>952453
This.
>>949615
I'd imagine there's lots of academics/liberal historians who see the Mexican-American War as immoral and thus don't rank him as highly because of it.
Anyway, Andrew Jackson is the only correct answer. His Indian policy, of course, was shit but whatever his actions sank the economy into depression for a decade; it took finding gold in California to replenish our supply to finally get the country out of it (or at least give the US the last big push it needed).
>>951472
>his weakness was the cause of that
That and his decision to put missiles in Italy and Turkey and point them at the USSR.
>>949693
The guy has zero respect from world leaders either. The average person might have bitched about Dubya and he was a shitty president and leader overall but he seemed to generally do well with world leaders and getting them on at least somewhat friendly terms.
Obama, though, destroyed all of that. Especially with Russia.
>>949988
It's Myanmar now
>>949647
You come across as the type of person that sleeps with an assault rifle and flies an ancap flag on his trailer porch.
