Tell me about the Korean War /his/. Why is it so ignored?
Because it came too soon after WW2 and soon afterwards the much more impactful (is that even a word), at least to the American public, Vietnam War happened.
(Which is a shame because it's a very interesting conflict, you'd think all kinds of people would find it interesting - from the tankboos who get a taste of Shermans going up against T-34s, to Ameriboos who see more of their BAR/Garand troops in action, to Commieboos for obvious reasons, to planeboos who see the funny era of prop planes give way to jet fighters, to large scale massacre & slaughter fetishists because that's what the war looked like very oten).
>>944022
Because the marxists don't want to deal with the fact that they are the true imperialists.
>>945319
That's funny because the war is quite celebrated in China and was a huge reason for the legitimacy of Mao's government.
>>945368
I find that you'll hear people talk about it more in Canada, funny considering we call it "Canadas forgotten war"
>mfw the United States stopped the spread of Communism and got to kill Chinamen along the way
>>944022
>Why is it so ignored?
Weren't the records of the Finno-Korean hyper war erased? That could be it.
>>944022
Because it didn't affect America at home as much as WW2, and didn't get the media coverage that VEE ET NAM did.
>>946315
That and the Korean War lasted 3 years whilst the Vietnam War stretched over the better part of two decades.
Because it was a war the US lost and the Chinese were able to maintain the status quo. Despite all that firepower and the support of the UN troops the US couldn't stop the Chinese counterattack that pushed them back to the 38th parallel.
>>946340
The Korean war never ended, there were no winners or losers, except for the North Koreans.
>>946340
By that logic we would never have heard of Vietnam.
>>944022
Because China won
>>946369
Yes, stopped. Zipperheads below a certain line still practice democracy to this very day.
>>945319
Almost everyone in Asia at the time believed South Korea was ruled by imperialists of a different sort.
It was considered the final battle against Japan's imperial dominions. A liberation of sorts.
>>946376
Maybe in Korea?? It surely didn't defeat it.
>1945-1980 Korea
>anything close to democracy
>1980-2016 Korea
>"""""""""""""democracy"""""""""""
At least they don't have North Korean People's Democracy.
>>946376
>implying democracy is a real thing
>>944022
Because its still on going. US is waiting to rape North Korea.
>>947344
Only an aspie lord deals in absolutes.
Korean War is cool because of the introduction of this sexy motherfucker.
>>947458
Sabre-chan a best
comme gookshitters can go home
>>945319
Right, because all those 'Marxists today totally identify with Maoism/Stalinism.
>>944022
American Jedi just aren't as interesting as their pre-historical Finno-Ugric counterparts.
Now I want to play Wargame again
>>944022
It was a police action, not a war.
because that mash show made it look stupid
>>944022
It was slightly less of a fuck up than Vietnam
>>946356
The only reason why we even hear of Vietnam was that it was well covered by the media; the atrocities committed by all parties involved and the failure of US arms, which was incredibly traumatic to the leadership of the US military, embedded the scars of that war deeply into the minds of the American public.
It is literally only Americans and Vietnamese that care more about Vietnam than Korea
>>946340
>the us lost
Then how is worst korea still a thing?
>>948098
Not even the french, who started the whole mess in the first place?
>>946362
>>946340
>only successful major chinese campaign suffered 90% casualty rate
> kill death ratio continously massively in allied favour, even in the air between two ery equal fighters
>us succeeds to preserve south korea and push commies back to north korea
>hurr durr us lost because china stopped them from completely wipe out north korea as a nation
>>948116
>muh k/d ratio
>>948116
>muh k/d
americans lmao
>>948116
It was a Commie victory.
>Commies invade south
>Ayy, Halp us.
>UN counterattacks.
>Wellp, might as well take North Korea.
>China counterattacks to save NK.
>NK saved
Commies achieved objectives.
Also the shit in Korea is the reason why USA was so fucking careful in Vietnam. They dont want a repeat of the escalation that happened in Korea so they tried to keep the fighting local by not invading NV.
>>948215
>commie victory
>NK's goal of reunification never achieved
>war never officially ended
its a stalemate you nerd.
>>948116
>kill death ratio continously massively in allied favour, even in the air between two ery equal fighters
As if that fucking matters. Most of the Chinese casualties during the war didn't even come from combat, most of their loss was due to the fact that their logistics system was garbage which caused hunger, disease and weather to wreck the Chinese ranks, and Mao wasn't willing to direct anymore resources into the conflict. But despite all this they achieved their goals in preventing the US from uniting the peninsula under their puppet regime
>>948220
That was NK's goal.
Not of their Chink/Ivan overlords.
It's not talked about more because MacArthur went and fucked things up by giving the Chinese a reason to enter the war. Plus there was no decisive outcome.
Results:
> South Korean victory, they survive.
> North Korean loss, no objectives achieved.
> UN Allied "victory" mitigated by needlessly escalating and prolonging the war.
> Chinese victory in gaining commie prestige globally and giving Mao the excuse to tighten his grip significantly on the newly commified and still fragile PRC.
>>948230
Nice goal post moving. So I assume you think the Russians and Chinese didn't want a united communist Korea for some reason?
>>948238
It wouldn't of been a fuck up if we let him nuke China like he wanted.
I remember it as one of the credited reasons for the boost in the German economy of the 1950 according to my history schoolbook
The landing at Inchon was the last great display of genius tactics in the modern era, and will likely be the last.
From here on out it's muh drones, muh railgun boats or muh 12 quintillion dollar planes
>>948532
Of course losses are important.
They are secondary by far, however, to actually achieving your goals.
>>948106
Especially not the French.
Is it just me or was the korean war the most badass war in history?
>dat operation faith
>the wounded would not be saved and could be heard screaming as their allies fled
>entire divisions of men would die without surrenduring
>>949355
>most badass war in history?
with operation names like KILLER and RIPPER, you bet it was
i mean can you imagine today's army announcing an operation like that?
"our objective is to kill as many iraqi combatants as possible. the codename for this attack will be 'slaughter'."
>>948215
>ayy lets take south korea
failed
>ayy lets take north korea
failed
DECISIVE COMMUNIST VICTORY
>>949355
Both sides had their moment in Korean War
>US Mehreens in Chosin Reservoir
>Inchon Landing
>Chinese counterattack forcing the UN to retreat from the North
>Mig Alley
>Even bit players like Turkey and the Philippines had shining moments fighting the Chinese when their elements covered the UN withdrawal.
>Nobody really winning and stalemating the fuck out of the war.
>>949362
>>ayy lets take north korea
but was that the UN objective at the time?
>>949377
It was until they got btfo, then it was hold the capital and the 38th paralel. Just like how the chinese goals went from keeping NATO holdings away from their border to ayy lets invade the south
To be fair the economic capital was on the 38th parallel and the communist forces got cucked more, so they sort of had a reason to not accept the stalemate.
>>948215
China's goal was to push UN forces out of South Korea and reunify the country. They failed despite an overwhelming troop advantage and the element of almost complete surprise.
Make no mistake. The UN ended the conflict because they did not want to expand it's intensity and risk dragging the Soviets in. Not because they couldn't best China. A much smaller UN force slaughtered the larger, more experienced Chinese force.
>>944022
Question sort of related:
How come North Vietnam could invade South Vietnam and reunify the land under one government while Korean seem to be incapable of doing this?
>>949388
Vietnam had the benefit of Both sides not really (directly) helping either side because of Escalation.
The Koreas meanwhile had the backs of two great powers and anything they did (i.e. invading the other) would lead to the two going at it.
>>949388
South Korea had competent leaders and an entrenched US occupation.
South Vietnam was a political train wreck divided by religion and run by incompetent slack jaws.
It took place on the Korean peninsula and isn't over
>>949375
>Both sides had their moment in Korean War
Except for the Koreans on both sides.
>North Korea is given an entire MY FIRST MODERN ARMY set by USSR but fails to crush the South. Gets its ass kicked the whole war.
>South Korean army riddled with corruption and low morale. Officers had to force its own men to fight.
The fact that the Mechanized North Korean army was saved by -of all people- a large Chinese infantry force whose only mechanized element is A FUCKING TRUCK just adds to their humiliation.
>>949381
i am genuinely curious, do you have a link about what the allied forces were trying to do past the 38th parallel? like if reattaching the north back to the south was their explicit goal
wiki is of no help
>>949387
The fact that a Chinese force was able to push out a Western force for the first time in history is notable
>>949423
Which is what solidified Mao's hold on China really, which was still up to question in 1950.
Despite the horrible Chinese casualties, the fact that a bunch of Western Armies fell back from their counterattack was a propaganda victory for the CCP in China.
Read Max Hastings.
>>949387
Slow down here. China wanted the capital. Yes the south was a luxury that they'd be willing to fight for, but their plans clearly changed after a while when that became a much less realistic goal.
They had more money but significantly less money. The NATO allies had naval and air superiority, which means their supply lines to the 38th parallel had snipers on them and the supply lines of the communist forces had carpet bombing on them.
>>949423
Not exactly. They had a massive numbers advantage and a majority of the troops were veterans from the 12 year war with Japan. On the other hand a majority of the UN troops had never seen much combat if any at all.
On top of this the Chinese achieved almost complete tactical surprise.
Had they not been able to force out the tiny by comparison UN force it would have been lauded as the greatest military failure in history.
It came to a stalemate along the 38th parallel as Chinese logistics shit the bed and prevented them from pressing their numbers advantage any further, while the UN found it was unable to overcome the numerically superior Chinese with existing troops, while also being almost totally unwilling to expand the conflict. The Chinese were allowed to win what they did. An actual effort by the UN to push the Chinese out of Korea would have seen them losing ground even faster than they took it.
>>949456
more men but less money*
>>949457
>On top of this the Chinese achieved almost complete tactical surprise
Only because that idiot MacArthur kept ignoring intel despite the fact that his soldiers were capturing advance parties of Chinks in the Yalu.
>>949457
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the original point
The Chinese pushed Western forces out of NK: yes or no?
This was the first large-scale Chinese military victory over Western forces: yes or no?
I don't care about the mitigating factors
>>949471
Don't remind me. I dont know why people think Mac Arthur was a good general.
Specifically because of his incompetence the Chinese achieved complete tactical surprise.
It is probably unlikely that finding out on such short notice would have made the inevitable retreat anything but more organized of course. Maybe a couple more divisions escape annihilation or capture. The numbers advantage the Chinks had was just too much for 1950s tech to overcome.
>>944022
Because now North Korea is a meme state and enemy.
>>949478
Out of nk yes. Victory no.
>>949457
The number advantage was minor factor to Chinese success in war, the idea that the Chinese simply zerg rushed UN and US troops is nothing more than dismissive garbage written by US officers in order to save face, it's the exact same shit the Germans did when writing accounts of the Soviet counter push during WWII.
The real advantage the Chinese came from the fact that most were hardened veterans from the civil war, had superior tactics and were lead by extremely skilled officers.
>An actual effort by the UN to push the Chinese out of Korea would have seen them losing ground even faster than they took it.
No they wouldn't have, UN and US forces there everything they had in terms of conventional weapons and resources into the fighting and by the time the armistice was signed they were too exhausted to go on. The US even struggled to bomb Chinese units because the Chinese were masters of camouflage and were able to hide corps size units from US scout planes.
>>947471
No true Scott
>>949571
Actually the Zerg Rush did happen. What is propaganda is that the Chinese mindlessly threw themselves into defenses with flags and tooting horns and bayonets fixed.
Zerg Rush is what happens when a Chinese "Short Attack" Fails.
>Later, the term "human wave attack" was often misused[22] to describe the Chinese short attack — a combination of infiltration and the shock tactics employed by the PLA during the Korean War
Short Attack:
>"A typical Chinese short attack was carried out at night by small fireteams on a narrow front against the weakest point in enemy defenses.[23] The Chinese assault team would crawl undetected within grenade range, then launch surprise attacks against the defenders in order to breach the defenses by relying on maximum shock and confusion.[23]
If the initial shock failed to breach the defenses, additional fireteams would press on behind them and attack the same point until a breach was created.[23] Once penetration was achieved, the bulk of the Chinese forces would move into the enemy rear and attack from behind.[25] During the attacks, the Chinese assault teams would disperse while masking themselves using the terrain, and this made it difficult for UN defenders to target numerous Chinese troops.[7] Attacks by the successive Chinese fireteams were also carefully timed to minimize casualties.[26] Due to primitive communication systems and tight political controls within the Chinese army, short attacks were often repeated indefinitely until either the defenses were penetrated or the attacker's ammunition supply were exhausted, regardless of the chances of success or the human cost."
Its basically a 1940's reworking of WWI German Storm Tactics. Hence the obsession with Grenades in Chinese armies (ROC did that shit as well).
>>946369
Got my gramps too. He was just 18, but came back with a broken nose/teeth and didn't want to talk about it. He drank and smoked himself to death before I ever met him.
>>949600
That's not a zerg rush, that's simply a combination of infiltration and stormtrooper tactics.
>>944022
Because it isn't over. It only ended in an armstice. No one wants to be reminded of that but my marine friends have told me some stories about the DMZ, they just set guys up in there and all they do is shoot crossers all day.
>>949571
>The real advantage the Chinese came from the fact that most were hardened veterans from the civil war, had superior tactics and were lead by extremely skilled officers.
I've heard a theory that many of the PLA troops (err, sorry, "volunteers") were former KMT troops who were deemed expendable and thus weren't very good soldiers. Do you know if this is true or not?
>>944022
> Tell me about the Korean War /his/.
Truman snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, leading to the concept of “containment”, which left millions suffering under Communism for 50 years.
>>946340
>the US couldn't stop the Chinese counterattack
"The offensive began on 22 April [1951], but had already been halted by the 30th, with 70,000 casualties, Seoul still out of reach, and the advance in the central sector blunted after 40 miles by the stand of the 29th British Bde. at Imjin.
On 17 May pressure switched to the east in the Second Spring Offensive, with 21 Chinese divisions and two North Korean Armies, but after four days and 90,000 casualties the advanced petered out.
The Chinese were shattered, and realized that even their virtually unlimited human resources could not overcome the murderous UN firepower.
They retreated as the UN counter-attacked, to a secure line just inside North Korea, saved from humiliating defeat by UN reluctance to invade North Korea again, and by the hope of an armistice as peace talks opened."
“The Korean War 1950-53” Thomas and Abbot, 1986
Had Truman not been suckered by the Soviets into peace talks and instead, advanced again into North Korea, the Chinese would have been rolled back over the Yalu River.
The peace talks, which the Chinese, N.Koreans and Soviets had no intention of agreeing to, allowed Communist forces to rebuild and resupply, leading to the brutal and pointless WWI-type trench warfare that would define the Korean War from then on.
tl;dr Truman was a dumbass and a pussy and we could have won.
>Be my grandpa
>Live through WWII in Italy, have many members of his family killed.
>Move to the US in 1949, speak no English, wants to become a citizen though.
>Join the army.
>Korea starts, spends most of the war there.
>Comes back decorated.
>Years later all he says in broken English about the war is "I tell a you, the Chinese...we had Chinese everywhere."
>>949954
>>Be my grandpa
No, thank you.
>>949866
>>949866
It's very true. They were given the choice to stay in labor camps or "volunteer" for Korea. In UN POW camps, they split halfway between ex-nationalists and communists, and many thousands of them were allowed to go to Taiwan instead of being forced back to China after the war.
This partially explains why their officers treated them so expendably.
I've been to a military museum in Taipei where there's this big banner that has an anti-communist pledge written and signed in blood by some of those guys captured in Korea who didn't wanna go back to an awful fate in the commie mainland. Also some of those old dudes have tattoos that basically say FUCK GOMMIES that they made while in the camps.
Also the ROC asked to be allowed to fight in Korea but Trucuckman said no because he was scared that would cause the PLA to intervene, which eventually happened anyways of course.
>>949813
Marine who's been to Korea before. Sounds like bs dude.
>>949866
A total rumor. Many of the PVA soldiers were actual volunteers, at the time there was a genuine fear amongst the Chinese that the US was going to use Korea as a springboard for their invasion into China and many Chinese citizens signed up believing that they were defending their homeland from Western aggression.
>>949933
Shit source
It ignores that fact that UN and US forces in particular were hard-up for manpower they struggled to perform operations, they were literally sending out recruits with less then 3 weeks of basic training to the front to keep units at an operational level, or the fact that what really stopped the Chinese offensive was that their logistics system was shit and as the fighting progressed the problems became geometrically exaggerated.
So no the US couldn't have won and neither could the Chinese have pushed them out of the peninsula. The conflict ended exactly where it should have.
>>950027
Bullshit
Sure there were some ex KMT soldiers who's loyalties were considered dubious but a vast majority of PVA soldiers wanted to be there and wanted to fight in defense of China and North Korea
Source: Living Chinese veterans from the war
>>950059
By the summer of 1951, the Chinese were utterly broken (the N.Koreans were even worse off) and what few troops they had left in Korea, were exhausted and without supplies and Chinese logistic system was wholly incapable of resupplying them, particularly in the face of American air power.
If it wasn’t for the Soviet sponsored ceasefire, the Chinese would have been easily rolled back by an American / UN offensive at that point but Truman was a coward and a moron and fell for Stalin’s ruse, allowing the Chinese (via the Soviets) to resupply and reinforce their troops, whereupon they broke the ceasefire (as they had intended all along) and war turned into a WWI-type stalemate.
How big a factor was the cold in helping to stop the Chinese? Would China have been able to penetrate deeper south if their initial intervention occurred in the spring or summer?
>>950105
The Chinese had 3 million troops in Korea and only an estimated 149,000-400,000 causalities. They were not hard up for manpower, what fucked them over was their logistic system, and US air power was impotent in stopping the Chinese offensive or disrupting their supply line, it was their broken system that stopped them.
>If it wasn’t for the Soviet sponsored ceasefire, the Chinese would have been easily rolled back by an American / UN offensive at that point but Truman was a coward and a moron and fell for Stalin’s ruse
You're delusional and are ignoring facts if you think for one second the US and UN could have pushed the Chinese back. All the Western countries before the war were demobilizing their militaries and were completely exhausted from WWII, including the US, they had neither the manpower or willpower to commit to anymore than they had to in the conflict.
>>950193
Military's tend to lose most of their experienced personnels during periods of demobilization
>>950181
>US exhausted from WW2
>Had just become greatest economic power in the world
pick one and only fucking one Ming
>>944022
>Why is it so ignored?
The eventful part of the war lasted no more than a year.
>>950274
the US had just demobilized from WW2, and thus the armed forces were severly undermanned.
>>950297
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces#/media/File:Active_duty_end_strength_graph.png
Begin in 1950, goes up.
Same with spending.
If anything it was bolstering.
>>950274
>What is war exhaustion
Pick up a fucking book retard and the only reason why the US was on top at the end of WWII was because it was the only country whos infrastructure wasn't fucked up by the war.
>>950310
I suggest you look at the graphs again because it clearly shows the huge drop in spending after WWII only picking up towards the end of the Korean War. However it's also irrelevant when the general public doesn't want a massive war.
>>950354
>starting in 1950
reading comprehension.
>hurling insults
Are you incapable of civil discourse?
I feel like you're that edgy contrarian I always argue with in WW2 threads that everyone dismisses as a troll.
>>947471
>Marxists today totally identify with Maoism
They do, here in he US you see more retards with "Mao's Little Red Book: Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung" than with Che Guevara shirts.
>>950039
They don't posts the deaths but you can find the stats easy. Hell they have a guy that all they do is run him ammo from a dump
>>950193
>Why was our military intelligence so shit in that period?
MacArthur was aware of the growing number of Chinese "volunteers" fighting with the N.Koreans in the fall of 1950 but shrugged it off, figuring the Chinese were still too fucked up from WWII to be any kinda real threat and the State Dept. couldn't give him any information on WTF was going on in China, because the U.S. didn't recognize the Communist government and had no presence in mainland China.
China at the time was a big blank spot on the political map.
>>950297
>the US had just demobilized from WW2, and thus the armed forces were severly undermanned.
This was a minor issue for the U.S., as we could still easily maintain our global commitments and still win the Korean War with the forces on-hand, as unlike the Chinese, we didn't fight by zerg rushing into the teeth of enemy firepower.
Again; the Chinese offensive was a surprise but was only a temporary set-back that could have and should have been corrected by a renewed offensive in the summer of 1951 when the Chinese were helpless... had Truman not taken Stalin's bait of a ceasefire.
>>950378
I knew exactly what you were trying to do and you're trying to weasel out when someone calls you out on it. Defense spending was shit during the Korean War and that's the fact.
>>950452
>Still thinks the US could have pushed back the Chinese despite all evidence to the contrary
The level of delusion in this shitposter
>>944430
Planeboo here, F-86s and Mig-19s are my planefu and husplanedo respectively.
>>948386
Mac didn't just want to nuke the Chinese, he wanted to irradiate the Yalu River to prevent the Chinese from crossing for the next hundred years. That would have caused serious ecological damage to the whole region.
I wish there was a game set during the Korean war, it would be class.
>>950470
I sexually identify as an F86 Sabre
Fun story I've heard about Korea that I haven't had verified:
Supposedly we knew that the people in the Migs were Russians and not Koreans because, although their radio communications were in Korean (via little flashcards, apparently), they swore in Russian when facing a problem.
>>949457
most of the experience chinese soldiers from the sino-japanese war (which was really only actively fought for 2-3 years out of the 8 occupation years) died in the civil war or left with the rest of the GMD in '49. the PLA had some veterans, yes, but the UN forces also had WWII veterans in senior positions. it was basically the same thing.
>>949388
>How come North Vietnam could invade South Vietnam and reunify the land under one government while Korean seem to be incapable of doing this?
Because, Watergate and a Democrat controlled congress dropping the $1 Billion given to to South Vietnam by the USA for the ARVN to $300 Million.
>>950886
Just like in Donbass & Crimea!
>>951090
>People are still unironically shilling a PragerU video
This is just embarrassing by this point.
>>950091
>four survivors talk about how much fun they had
Maybe we could get a differant opinion off a corpse in some gulag?
>>951481
>>>/leftypol/
>>951498
Keep pulling shit out of your ass maybe if you keep doing it you'll strike gold
>>950468
Not him.
On paper, the US indeed could have pushed back the Chinese. But it would have been WWII level commitment to do so, which the US public had absolutely no desire for and would not have tolerated. UN had the men, had the logistics, and had the technology to fuck the Chinks six ways to Sunday and not even 1/100th the public support to do so.
The biggest limitation on a democratic country's ability to wage war is always itself.
>>948116
>muh k/d
The Chinese literally saved NK from total annihilation. That was their original goal and they succeeded. America's goal was to defeat NK. MacArthur made that abundantly clear.
>>944022
It was a tie, nobody won, and there's not a lot of footage.
>>949387
China's original goal was to save NK. This was literally the decision made in September 1950.
Mao in late December 1950 decided to go full retard and order a continuation past the 38th parallel though.
>>949457
The vast majority of UN forces had as much experience.
WW2 was only 4-5 years earlier.
>>949600
That's literally not "zerg rush."
>>949866
Rumor.
Sure some were used, but the vast majority were full-blooded commie scum.
>>949933
>two Chinese offensives were blunted
>that means we can push forward to Yalu!!!
Literally a shit source.
>>952162
Read the thread that's exactly what posters here have been saying.
>>950105
When a source sounds like propaganda, it's most likely a bad source.
>>950274
Your so stupid I'm done responding.
>were big economic power
>therefore we are not exhausted from war!
>>952162
Great job getting the other superpower involved near their home turf.
>>951997
Put a source or you're the one that is too busy playing cave explorer with your ass.
>>952251
>I'm a Marxist and I have neither of those things,
because you can't own anything, right?
