So what exactly were commissars in russia during WW2? were they basically just kind of like the SS? Some paramilitary group separate from the actual military that was folded into watch over divisions or whatever and make sure they were bing good communist?
I dont get what purpose they functioned
>>936837
Basically MP's taken to the most extreme conclusion.
>inb4 le commissars always shooting their own men meme
>>936845
t. commissar ivan
>>936845
Fuck off vatnik
>>936845
Da comrade commissar!
pls dont kill me :(
>>936837
They were saving the world
>>936845
Petrov pls
>>936860
>russki history books actually print this
>"MUH HEROES MUH MOTHERLAND MUH LIBERATORS WE DINDU NUFFINN"
They were essentially second, parallel hierarchy of officers. Army officers and commissars were supposed to work in tandem sometimes interchangeably if one of them dies.
After WWII they were folded into army proper and became "politruk-s" who were more like Star Trek councellors
>>936845
>>936870
t.hans
some communist societies had the party secretariat in the beginning
their job was ideological maintenance for the factory, farm, city, school, office building or whatever division of he society had
the commissar was that office in the military capacity
>>936870
>he doesn't think the great patriotic war was the most heroic defense of a country ever
t. goebbels fritz burgdorf
Think of them like diversity consultants in modern companies. Their job was to guarantee political orthodoxy and eliminate dissent.
>>936837
>Some paramilitary group separate from the actual military that was folded into watch over divisions or whatever and make sure they were bing good communist?
They were basically this but not quite. To understand Commissars you need to first understand the role that militaries as an institution have in society and have had historically.
The military obviously has a near monopoly on military force and violence in a given society, thus there are numerous cases in history where the one who controlled the military ended up controlling the country even though they were not the de jure sovereign. There are also numerous cases in history (and the contemporary world, Burma being the most extreme example) of the military essentially becoming independent of any other governmental or otherwise organization in a society and acting solely for their own benefit usually with them taking total control of the society.
With this in mind the role of Commissars becomes obvious, they were inserted into the military to ensure the organization of the Communist Party remained the ruling power of the Soviet Union and that military leaders didn't become too powerful or the military become independent as an institution. Commissars were Party officials first and foremost and while their stated idealistic goal was protecting Communism their actual use was in protecting the power of the Party.
There is a very similar dynamic today in the PR of China as their military boasts enough power and semi-independence that it jockeys a bit with other powers in the country.
>>936905
>2016
>not studying the mysterious ways and philosophies of the slav
>>936837
Commissars were propaganda officers assigned to units for motivational support. It would be the NKVD troops that enforced the general order.
>>936845
beevor's book describes a incident with russian tankists escaping a burning tank and getting put on a gulag list by a commissar for not dying with their vehicle.
>>936837
>>936889
>>he doesn't think the great patriotic war was the most heroic defense of a country ever
>most heroic defense
>having more troops than the germans and being allied with them is heroic
spelt the battle of britian wrong m8
>>936837
>were they basically just kind of like the SS?
Pretty much, they were an armed wing of the Communist party, rather than regular armed forces. They were thus viewed as more trustworthy and often more ideologically connected to the success of the regime.
>>936837
They were part of the ruling party and dedicated to the party's goals. They kept soldiers dying in droves for Mother Russia and the party and weeding out dissent.
>>936937
t. eternal anglo
try having an actual army invade your lands, and the largest invasion force in history at that, and see what it's like
>>936889
SO BRAVE
>>936837
They were an integral part of division structures designed to ensure security and political education while also serving as officers themselves.
See, the Red Army that fought in WW2 was an outgrowth of the Red Army that won the Russian Civil War. During that war, obviously it was essential to educate people on what exactly they were fighting for, and make sure that the Russian Civil War doesn't get even stupider by adding another side.
Afterwards, these problems don't really go away. Rule was hardly stabilized, and education was still incredibly shitty. Your conscripts are pulled right off of farms their ancestors have lived on for decades or centuries, and they don't know a damn thing about what they're expected to defend.
At the same time, it's been less then 20 years since the army last revolted and there was a huge clusterfuck civil war, so keeping an eye on what your officers are thinking is a good idea.
>>936951
>large army invades your land
>respond by throwing your large army at them
HEROIC DEFENSE, SUCH HEROES
Despite what gommisar putin and your "democratic" press tell you, it wasnt anything special. You repelled a invasion force with an equally big army, pipe down sergei
>>937040
>1 front in ww2 dwarfing the size and casualties of even all of ww1
>wasnt anything special
wew
>>936897
That is a horribly apt comparison.
>>937056
>implying vatniks and wehraboos killing each other off to prove which ideology is worse is something special
>>(you)
>>937102
>war in which many military doctrines today are based on isn't special
>>(du)
>>937136
>inspiring military doctrines mattering during the most peaceful time in human history
>he says as countless civil wars and other conflicts rage around him
>>937149
You do realize that despite small conflicts in 3rd world countries, we actually are living in the most peaceful time in history
>>937040
all shitposting aside, youre pretty dumb if you dont see how significant the eastern front was
that block of europe from 1941-1945 was the bloodiest, most epic battle that ever was, and probably ever will be, fought
>>937155
>small conflicts
Nice generalization. There are so many massive conflicts in developing countries that it's probably impossible to track them all. Just because countries no longer "officially" go to war doesn't make today peaceful in the slightest.
>>937166
https://www.google.com/search?q=most+peaceful+time+in+history&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS648US648&oq=most+peaceful+time+in+history&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US
Pick a source, im not making this up
>>937166
And those shitty little skirmishes in the developing world pale in comparison to what organized nations were able to do throughout history.
>Chenkov best commissar
The fagerman/naziboo butthurtness itt is so high lol
>>936925
His description was obviously shit because Russian tanks were hilariously difficult to get out of so I doubt the incident happened. If it did then the vatniks would have died in the tank
>>936937
The battle of britain was like the first line of defence out of 300 lines of defence which ends in the royal navy beaching ships so that the germans can't do shit, and driving destroyers through the channel to capsize any attempts at landing men. Becuase the royal navy was an impenetrable wall.
The russian front was both the first and last lines for them.
t. royal navy enthusiast.
>>936902
>>936964
Basically this.
It's good to note however the use of NKVD blocking units and the attachment of commissars to infantry units ceased later in the war, as the Red Army's victory at Stalingrad and other fronts essentially won them a reprieve. from then on the commissar was no longer a powerful entity. During the battle for Stalingrad NKVD were also deployed as front line trooped (10th NKVD Rifle Division).
>>936837
>shooting your own men
Fucking vatniks
>>938283
Getting penalized for leaving your knocked out vehicle is something that indeed happened numerous times. A song was even made about it:
И вoт нac вызывaют,
B ocoбый нaш oтдeл.
Cкaжи, a пoчeмy ты,
Bмecтe c тaнкoм нe cгopeл.
Bы мeня пpocтитe,
Я им гoвopю.
B cлeдyющeй aтaкe
Oбязaтeльнo cгopю.
>Thus we're called
>To our Special Department [counterintelligence]
>Say, why didn't you
>Burn together with the tank
>I am very sorry
>I reply to them
>In the next attack
>I'll definitely burn
>>936845
>16,000 executions per battle not including friendly fire
>>938310
>literally suiciding your navy to protect Albion
Sounds badass. You have a source or anything about that that I can read up on?
Based russian bros
Thanks for liberation
>>936911
Most Slavs hate Russian/commie cunts.
>>938280
I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulled out the "le 1 rifle per 3 men" meme
>>938549
Slavs are very devided on it. There's a mix of feelings ranging from "they're horrible traitors that fucked us over" to "protective big brother" depending on where you go and who you talk to,. Of course you're probably not going to find many poles who think the latter.
>>938764
The hatred for communism is almost unanimous considering how unpopular communist parties are in Eastern Europe. Czech republic is probably the only exception.
>>938772
Also Belarus, but Belarus is a sad sad case.
>>938772
Everywhere I've been has had a lot of people who miss it.
If it was as unanimous as you claim ties with russia wouldn't be as big as they are in a lot of these places. Anywhere you can find anti-western sentiement you can find pro-moscow.
>>938781
>muh anecdotal evidence
If people truly missed it and wanted it back, they would be voting for communist parties and they're not doing that.
>>938786
Many people do, that's why communists or socialists (or parties that supper devolution and building loscla communities and shit like that) are in strong opposition or coalition in many former communist countries.
>>938800
Which countries are we talking about?
>>938802
Hungary, Serbia, Czech Republic, Ukraine, then there's the "kinda" ones.
And support is on the up for these parties in recent years.
>>938810
>Hungary
First word and you're already completely wrong.
>>938820
the biggest party in opposition is the communist party and they in the trench of a slump
>>938827
Literally "no". The communist party in Hungary got 0.56% of the vote (kek) in the last elections, they're completely irrelevant. Stop lying.
>>938833
Oh I got my bloody communist successor parties mixed up. That's embarassing.
>>938843
As for Ukraine, even more bullshit.
>>938856
I was including the radicals not just parties called the communists, like how I wouldn't limit it to just the communist party of great britain if I was talking about britihs politics, I'd include TUSC and other similar groups.
>>938868
The Radicals are right wing populist nationalists, they're not communists.
The role of the comissar makes a lot of sense IMO. Let's say you're in charge of a extremely poor country where most people can't even read or write, and go to war with a more developed country where people enjoy a higher quality of life and more rights including being able to vote. When your troops cross into enemy territory, you want to control how this disparity is presented to your troops to avoid unrest at home when the army is demobilized and in the worst case defections in the front. For this, a political comissar is necessary.
>>938872
They're major advocates for several socialist polcies. Becuase they're really a popularist party more than anything.
Again, my definition wasn't really strict communists only.
>>938310
>which ends in the royal navy beaching ships so that the germans can't do shit, and driving destroyers through the channel to capsize any attempts at landing men
this gives me a boner and I'm not even a brit
>>938880
This fucking goalpost moving is unreal lmao. Communist aren't popular in Eastern Europe, deal with it.
