How well-integrated were Jews in prewar France and Germany?
From 1880-1932, could Jews ascend to the upper echelon of the nobility? Were there any Jewish counts and marquesses?
How visible and how severe was anti-Jewish prejudice on the European continent prior to the Nazi terror?
Would it be scandal for a Jew to marry into Christian nobility? Did a scion of the Rothschilds or any other wealthy Jewish dynasty pull that off?
>>936526
Prime Minister of France when Germany invaded was Jewish.
Jews were usually isolated in jewish communities, somewhat like muslim communities of today except that the jews didn't harbor terrorists.
>>936564
By the 30s Jews were basically invisible in Germany, which frightened the Nazis and helped them garner success
>>936526
Back to /pol/, stormcuck
>>937141
I'm not a stormcuck, I'm pretty pro-Jewish. I'm wondering how tolerant Europe was of Jews before the war. Particularly the aristocratic class.
>>936557
no he wasn't popular frobt was 1936-37
>>937127
Because germany was one of the mosr judenfrei country in europe at the time. Kinda ironic
France was a republic, there was no nobility. And yes Jews were assimilated into France by Napoleon. Napoleon allowed them to become full French citizens with no distinction on the condition that they removed everything from their religion that was contrary to French Republican values. Jewish immigrants kept coming (from Alsace, then from Eastern Europe, and Sephardi in French Maghreb) but after a generation they were just regular French people. It was very different in Germany, where Jews were integrated (some even becoming prominent politicians in the Weimar Republic) but never assimilated. Being German was always about blood.
Then WW2 happened which changed things in France as well. Vichy made a deal with the Germans and protected French Jews while aiding in the deportation of immigrant Jews. While that's the reason France had the lowest Jewish death rate of any occupied country, the Holocaust and French collaboration became a huge deal in France and especially to French Jews starting in the 70s, particularly after France stopped openly supporting Israel in 1967. Nowadays French Jews are more and more unassimilated and no longer consider themselves French, though the same applies to all immigrant communities.
>>937551
Care to give a sauce about that ? Im french and I am sure Vichy's laws were against every jew, french or foreigner on the territory. And collaboration has been a big thing with politicians and industrials openly offering their help to the germans, even sometimes going beyond the orders. But I m curious about this mortality rate you talk about
France:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affair
Germany: Pic related is a portrait of German president Hindenburg (1927) by Jewish artist Max Liebermann. On the one hand, jews were very well established and belonged to the elite in both Austria and Germany. There was a sudden influx of Eastern European jews which led to a widespread anti-Jewish sentiment.
>>937835
Vichy had discriminatory laws that applied to all Jews, but only immigrant Jews were deported (though this included immigrants who had previously acquired French citizenship, but whose citizenship was taken away again by Vichy). For the Holocaust victim rates I don't have the table right now, but I remember it was around 30% for France, with only one other country having a lower rate (pretty sure it was Denmark).
And collaboration had usually nothing to do with the Holocaust. For example the richest man in France during the Occupation was a Jew named Joseph Joanovici who sold metal to the Nazis.
>>936526
>How well-integrated were Jews in prewar France and Germany?
It depends, some Jews wanted to keep to themselves while others wanted to assimilate. The latter often converted to Christianity and intermarried with the local population (e.g. Karl Marx). Some Jews focused on Zionism while others were very nationalistic for their country. Ernst Lissauer for instance coined the phrase "Gott strafe England" and composed a "Song of Hate Against England". Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbund_j%C3%BCdischer_Frontsoldaten
Jews were very well-integrated in Germany and Austria-Hungary, that's why it came as a shock when, in the aftermath of World War I, they betrayed their own countries and tried to establish communist dictatorships in Germany and Hungary.
Imagine having a neighbor who seems fine, just to have him organize a coup with his ethnic cousins at the moment of your country direst need, a coupt which establishes a government that will try to kill you and seize your property. That's why the Jews done and that's why they got to be so hated in the interwar period. Before this, antisemitism was more prevalent in France (see the Dreyfuss Affair) than in Germany or Austria.
>>938219
>dictatorships
k
>>936526
Jews have always been well integrated into the societies in which they live as long as they are left alone.
I mean, even the British had Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli in the 1800s.
>>938219
>large part of German workers make a revolution
>it be Juden's fault
>>938219
That list does remove every single non-Jewish leader of the revolution you know?
Franz Mehring
Wilhelm Pieck
Richard Müller
Emil Barth
Emil Eichhorn
and despite those butchered articles in this classic image, there's no evidence to suggest that many of those here were practising Jews, and let us not forget the vast amount of revolutionaries.
Jews weren't targeted for attempting to overthrow the revolution, but for being disproportionately present in politics, popular culture, and banking, which made them - a separate entity - a perfect target to persecute and rally around for the NSDAP
>>938366
>there's no evidence to suggest that many of those here were practising Jews
Do you really think NatSocs care? It's all about race for them.
>>938219
Are German sailors all Jews?
>>936526
dreyfus case is an interesting one to read into if you want to know how people felt about jews
>French thinks Jews are too German
>Germans think Jews aren't German enough
damn...
>>938219
How was the Sparticist revolution a betrayal if it was a direct attempt to liberate the German people?
>>936526
>Were there any Jewish counts and marquesses?
No. I don't think Jews were ever ennobled or given such titles. They remained members of the bourgeoisie, working as bankers, merchants, lawyers, physicians, and other highly skilled professions.
>>938219
Judenputsch > Illegal-Austrian-Immigrant-Putsch
>>938479
Doubt it, jews get seasick very easily
>Jews
>nobility
Oh yeah darling I'm sure you could become the Archduke von Auschwitz kek.
IIRC only Christians could be nobles everywhere except for places like Britain where they ennobled the Rothschilds for some reason.
>>939745
are you retarded?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Jewish_nobility
>>939757
>wikipedia
>>939760
Nice save, faggot.
>>939757
>WE WUZ NOBLEMEN
>>938992
Communist Germany with Liebnecht and Luxembourg at the helm would have been pretty rad
>>940336
So Germany could become a Soviet tier shithole even earlier?
>>940336
>i know that all actual communist revolutions quickly degenerated into bloodbaths and made their countries shitholes, but this one that actually failed would have been the real thing, trust me
>>938219
This is so fucking stupid. A shitload of Jews fought for the German Empire in WW1- so much so that they had Jewish Rabbi clergymen out in the fields with the men. They were the biggest German nationalists, even. This is why German antisemitism doesn't make a lick of fucking sense.
>The episode marked a shocking moment for the Jewish community, which had passionately backed the War effort and displayed great patriotism;[6] many Jews saw it as an opportunity to prove their commitment to the German homeland. Over 100,000 had served in the Army; 12,000 perished in battle, while another 35,000 were decorated for bravery.[8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenzählung
>>940875
They wanted to create a demsoc state with libertarian principles
>>937920
Yep Denmark had the lowest rate of dead jews at about 1%.
This was because for the first three years Denmark was cooperating with Germany and the jews were protected. in 1943 the cooperation ceased and the germans moved to remove the jews. They were betrayed by one of their own and he told the danish government what was about to happen. The government told the resistance who managed to transport the jews to sweden(who were neutral) it was around 500 jews who got put into kz camps. Only about 10% of those died and this meant that around 1% the jews in Denmark died.
in total 5000 danes were interned in kz camps and only 500 died total. Due to relief in form of food and clothing and the white buses in the closing days.
>>937835
>>938219
>they betrayed their own countries and tried to establish communist dictatorships in Germany and Hungary
Because said countries "betrayed" the people first.
>>936526
I think that in Austria, there exist some jewish nobelfamilys. In germany, I am not sure.
>>941303
> TFW when you understand how much that WW1 runied Europa for the worst and killed four empires.
>anti-jewish prejudice
Yes i'm sure that 99% of humanity are in the wrong and it's the tiny 1% minority getting all this hostility that has actually been in the right all along
/zionist tinfoil hat mode off
