Topic 1): Post your fav Christian Philosopher. Heathens are welcome to simply post their fav theist philosopher if so inclined.
Topic 2): In the ranking of Christian philosophers who comes in at number #1 Thomas Aquinas (Thomism ) or Kierkegaard (father of existentialism)
>>926677
This could actually be a good thread on Christianity
>>926718
I remember someone yesterday saying this place was a christian hugbox despite the fact that you can't make a thread about Christianity without people shitposting in them instead of ignoring them
>>926677
>>926730
I'm not sure if you guys think you're helping your cause instead of creating more division.
>>926672
1) Thomas Aquinas
2) Thomas Aquinas
>>926677
Reddit, pls. go.
Based Kierkegaard
>>926672
Chesterton, Plantinga and Kierkegaard
Aquinas was an italianfag who copied everything from Aristo.
>>926730
GTFO shoe atheist
>>926672
>christian
>philosophy
choose one
>>926672
Can we talk about the epistles?
They are fantastic, and are legitimately a ruthless demolishing of degeneracy. It lays much of the framework for the latter works of christian theology on morality too.
I haven't read much, but so far based Gregory of Palamas
tl;dr Christian truth is a direct experience not a subject of abstract speculation. The body shares in knowledge of the truth.
>>926672
anyone that is not Erasmus is just wrong
>>926897
>Aquinas was an italianfag who copied everything from Aristo.
Perhaps but a good chunk of christian thought in the church can be attributed to TA thanks to his appropriation of Aristotle's work.
Also what do you think of his Just War theory?
>>928755
> anyone that is not Erasmus is just wrong
Care to clarify?
>>928783
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderius_Erasmus
aka the guy who BTFO Martin Luther
>>927012
Feel free to discuss
Hmm because of this I'd like introduce an additional topic:
Topic 3: Sin
What Christian thinker has best described the nature of sin in your opinion? Or if you have your own thoughts on the subject feel free to share
>>928783
Diff guy, but looking to get into just war theory in Christian thought. Where should I start, and how should I progress?
>>926672
W-w-who wants some book recommendations on Mormonism and the Latter-Day Saints?
>>928920
http://cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf
Only one I needed
>>928924
It's waaaaay more complicated than that PDF implies. I'm not a historian but I've read enough books about the movement to know that it's multifaceted and has a huge tie-in with how they were treated historically in Missouri, Ohio, and Illinois.
>>927012
what are epistles? im not familiar with Christianity.
>>929080
Paul of Tartus, earliest record we have in Church history, he basically wrote to Christian communities and told them how to behave and what true Christianity was all about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles
>>929080
Paul's letters.
>>929089
oh
>>929089
if you can't call him Saint you could at least call him Mister. Butthurt heretic detected.
1) Saint Augustine though Saint Denis gives me butterflies
2) This question presupposes there is even a contest between the two. SED CONTRA.
>>928920
I'm probably not persuadable but I'm curious.
Catholic: St Augustine
Orthodox: St Maximus the Confessor
Protestant: Kierkegaard
Can't really put them in order though
>>929558
>Orthodox: St Maximus the Confessor
First time I am hearing of him or any Orthodox philosopher. What's he about?
>>928788
> You declaim bitterly against the luxury of priests, the ambition of bishops, the tyranny of the Roman Pontiff, and the babbling of the sophists; against our prayers, fasts, and Masses; and you are not content to retrench the abuses that may be in these things, but must needs abolish them entirely...
> Look around on this ‘Evangelical’ generation,[46] and observe whether amongst them less indulgence is given to luxury, lust, or avarice, than amongst those whom you so detest. Show me any one person who by that Gospel has been reclaimed from drunkenness to sobriety, from fury and passion to meekness, from avarice to liberality, from reviling to well-speaking, from wantonness to modesty. I will show you a great many who have become worse through following it....The solemn prayers of the Church are abolished, but now there are very many who never pray at all....
> I have never entered their conventicles, but I have sometimes seen them returning from their sermons, the countenances of all of them displaying rage, and wonderful ferocity, as though they were animated by the evil spirit....
Who ever beheld in their meetings any one of them shedding tears, smiting his breast, or grieving for his sins ?... Confession to the priest is abolished, but very few now confess to God.... They have fled from Judaism that they may become Epicureans.[47]
Pretty based
>>927012
He just says to behave morally and modestly, and give the church a good face, since Jesus is returning any day now. How easily impressed are you?
>>926672
1. Duns Scotus
2. Well I like Thomas more than Kierkegaard- but they have entirely different approaches.
>>928788
he was BTFO by almost anyone, even Henry VIII
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Thomas Aquinas
Jan Hus and Menocchio
>>930988
> Teilhard de Chardin has two comprehensive works, The Phenomenon of Man, and The Divine Milieu.[10]
> His posthumously published book, The Phenomenon of Man, sets forth a sweeping account of the unfolding of the cosmos and the evolution of matter to humanity, to ultimately a reunion with Christ.
> In the book, Chardin abandoned literal interpretations of creation in the Book of Genesis in favor of allegorical and theological interpretations.
> The unfolding of the material cosmos, is described from primordial particles to the development of life, human beings and the noosphere, and finally to his vision of the Omega Point in the future, which is "pulling" all creation towards it.
> He was a leading proponent of orthogenesis, the idea that evolution occurs in a directional, goal-driven way, argued in terms that today go under the banner of convergent evolution.
> Teilhard argued in Darwinian terms with respect to biology, and supported the synthetic model of evolution, but argued in Lamarckian terms for the development of culture, primarily through the vehicle of education.[11]
> Teilhard made a total commitment to the evolutionary process in the 1920s as the core of his spirituality, at a time when other religious thinkers felt evolutionary thinking challenged the structure of conventional Christian faith. He committed himself to what the evidence showed.[12]
> Teilhard makes sense of the universe by its evolutionary process. He interprets complexity as the axis of evolution of matter into a geosphere, a biosphere, into consciousness (in man), and then to supreme consciousness (the Omega Point.)
Why does it seem like Catholic philosophers are usually the most based?
>>926955
Descartes was a christian
>>931105
He was influenced by Vernadsky, so he's super based.
Hey can someone bread pill me here? I will try to read the books suggested here but how can I believe in God again?
>>932055
Volunteer at your local church.
>>932055
At my shrine we have perpetual devotion, meaning 24 hour access.
Some of my very best and strongest religious epiphanies have been sitting by myself having a private conversation between God and myself.
He either chooses you and blesses you with his presence or he does not.
I really can't wait for Constantine to come back after Lent, but it'll be bittersweet because this is my first Lent ever observed, my first Lent in the Orthodox tradition, and also my first Lent since coming back to Christianity. It's all very exciting and I don't want it to end too soon.
>>932177
I'm going through RCIA right now and should be Baptized on Pentecost. I'm taking the Roman rite but our RCIA instructor is a Based Byzantine.
He has invited me to attend mass and i keep meaning to take him up on it.
Genuinely curious as to how you can be open-minded enough to philosophize but still be objective on there being a god and accepting no other possibility.
>>932194
My path from atheism to Christianity was guided by inexplicable moments of clarity. I felt, and still feel, compelled. If I understood exactly why and how, I suppose I wouldn't be a Christian. All attempts to think and self-debate my way out of this new mindset failed.
>christian philosophy
Kneel, grovel and apologize, you worthless playthings.
>>932194
For those who Know, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, no explanation is possible.
It's something I Know, that there is a greater power outside of myself.
>>932222
Enjoy writhing in your own filth and failures.
Also nice quads
>>932218
Then you're not very intelligent. There is zero proof of God aside from feelings.
>>932229
There is nothing to know. You don't know, you only say you do. There is no empirical evidence, so it's by faith which isn't knowledge.
If this were tested on the scientific method we would get stuck around testing which would make it kaput.
>>932264
For me, there is a tremendous peace that comes with a 2,000 year old faith. It's a working system. No degeneracy, the Church only wants strong, healthy, happy families.
Contrast that with modern secular life which only stands up for the right to abortion, loveless promiscuity, divorce, homosexuality.
Atheist heroes are rebellious woman and men wearing dresses. Atheism has no future, no birthrate. They kill the next generation and raise the existing generation to not breed.
>>932273
I think you are generalizing too much. I don't believe in gods or god but I want a strong family. I also personally believe people should be free to do what they want or need. Abortion should be up to the carrier (and also the father should have input). Degeneracy is seriously just a buzzword.
>>932264
Anon I literally just said that my belief is not based on evidence. Why would you think that matters to me?
We don't consider ourselves beholden to empiricism or the scientific method. They're arbitrary and of no value.
>>932294
If evidence doesn't matter to you, the next time you see a red light at an intersection, don't stop. Red lights are inconvenient, and evidence is irrelevant.
>>932309
>missing the point this hard
Reason and evidence are helpful in everyday interactions like purchasing food and addressing finances.
They're next to useless for the soul and the transcendental mind, the I, the Unique One, as Stirner would put it.
>>932316
>i-i-i-it only matters when i choose
Be consistent. Either evidence matters, or it doesn't. I can pick any number of worldviews based on no evidence whatsoever, that doesn't mean they're all equally correct.
>They're next to useless for the soul and the transcendental mind
You're spooking me bad here mate.
>>932373
No, it really does only matter when I choose. Evidence is my property, and I'll use it how I see fit. It belongs to me, and me to God.
>>932427
>No, it really does only matter when I choose. Evidence is my property, and I'll use it how I see fit. It belongs to me, and me to God.
Dumb christposter. Fuck off back to your cave, hypocrite.
>>932457
Calm down, my property.
>>932316
>>932427
Anon stop it
Sorry that this question isn't really related to the thread.
I recently started reading the (ESV) Bible, I'm only half-way through Exodus. I really want to get the most out of it though, would it be worth getting a KJV Bible? Also, is the Oxford Classics Edition good? I'm mainly eyeing it because it includes the Apocrypha, which I realise isn't actually 'canon' but I thought it would be something I might like to read.
>>932273
That's an interesting perspective since the idea of Christianity as being rooted "in the family and nation" only really emerged in the 1950s. You can find odd passages that show what Christianity was like before the cold-war scare, stuff that says the best life is to have no children or marriage. Christianity was about giving yourself over to God in the most extreme sense: in this regard family and nation could be seen as rivals
"Christian Heroes" are Saints. And the vast majority were priests who took vows of celibacy. Thomas Aquinas, arguable the most celebrated Saint was famous for defying his parents desire for him to reproduce and carry on the family line. Supposedly angels came to aid him when his parents tried to force him to lose his virginity.
>>932294
He didn't say your belief had to be empirical. He's saying there is a whole chunk of philosophy (like 90% of the non-medevil stuff) you almost have to axiomatically reject in order to be compatible with orthodox christian beliefs.
I sort of agree with the annon that Christianity+philosophy is not a very sustainable mix. The fact that you also instantly jumped into "attack atheism mode" or acted defensive when basic questions were asked doesn't help much either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A
you literally cant top this, hes the best of the best
>>932834
>He's saying there is a whole chunk of philosophy (like 90% of the non-medevil stuff) you almost have to axiomatically reject in order to be compatible with orthodox christian beliefs.
Ehh, maybe from the 18th/19th century onward. But guys like Descartes used " God did it" as an answer to holes in their philosophy allot more than the Scholastics did. Non-Christian Philosophy doesn't really come back in the west until Hume. In fact- you see allot of early modern philosophers criticizing the Scholastics for being too Pagan in their orientation. One could go and mark off 1700 as the approximate end of the Medieval period philosophically to deal with this ( considering that the universities during most of the 17th century were Scholastic this maybe even makes sense). But then you have Medieval Christian Philosophy that takes up 1500 years or so, followed by 300 years of non-theistic philosophy along side theistic philosophy still persisting. And there is about as much diversity in the actual philosophical ideas found in the former as there is in the later. Christianity has massive philosophical support, allot of its basic tenants- like the immortality of the soul, come from Platonism.
That other anon claimed that only through (presumably direct) empirical knowledge of God could we come to know him, and therefore any other claim to know him would have to be based on faith. Assuming that empiricist reductionism holds without argument, ignoring the tradition of literature of arguments used to support the existence of deity, how the tenants of the faith don't result in logical contradiction, etc, is about as philosophical as the other poster's fideism is.
>>930176
Technically he's also a Catholic philosopher since he's pre-schism but I use the label "Orthodox" given his influence over the East. His ideas are kinda complex so I'll provide an overview of some of them. First off is the view of the human being as a microcosmos and the cosmos as a sort of macroantropos. Because of such a view, Maximus can see the Liturgy and layout of a church as reflecting many things such as the universe and the human person. Another would be the "Gnomic"(deliberative) will. To him, Post-Fall humans have a Gnomic will given their divided nature, from themselves and from others. Because of this division, the need for deliberation arise. He doesn't believe that Jesus the godman possesses this. Pre-fall Adam and Eve and the saints in Heaven all possess no Gnomic will but. Natural will that naturally seeks the good. This is also how he solves the free will in heaven issue.
>>931400
I understand that. The labels are more of a testament on the branches of Christianity they had significant infleunce upon
>>930893
>tfw Henry was a devout Catholic who even gained the title Defender of the Faith
>tfw his and Catherine of Aragon's son's death drove him mad for an heir
>tfw he abandoned the One True Faith for worldy politics
>tfw England could have stayed Catholic and all of the beautiful art and architecture destroyed in the Protestant plunders could have survived
>tfw the entire New World could have been Catholic
>>928783
Most popes have been Italian.
is sex before marriage bad
>>938906
Mortal sin
>>926672
>ctrl-f spinoza
>not a single result
