Is it true European civilisation was irrelevant until they discovered the new world?
>>916917
Do you actually asking this because you are curious or do you just want to spark some shitfest here and somehow reinforce nationalistic tendencies?
>>916992
Almost surely the latter.
>>916917
Is it true that OP was born out of his mom's ass instead of the customary opening in the vagina?
>>917019
This is why anal is frowned upon.
>>916917
No, it was irrelevant until they built ships capable of things like that
>>916917
no
>>916917
Left >>>>> Right and I'm not even a communist
>>916917
Yes, it is. Relative to the rest of the world Europe was developing on it's pace disconnected from the rest of the world in influence aside from trade. Rome doesn't count since European civilization as we know it arrived during and after Charlemagne.
>>916917
is he sewious?
>>917084
most of the world was disconnected until the Spanish and Portuguese empires.
>>917108
Eh, there's increasingly evidence for multiple crossings of the atlantic, and people went all over Eurasia-Africa.
>>917084
Why do you even answer to him?
>>916917
It was irrelevant to places like China and India
It was relevant to the middle east, but not exactly an existential threat to the Islamic world
After the discovery of the New World and the massive amounts of wealth generated by colonial empires Europe became "relevant"
It wasn't until the 18th century that Europe became the global hegemon though, and even then the Ottomans and China were still significant
>>917198
This.
Asia as a whole was way more relevant. Europe was on the fringes and therefore irrelevant. It was some cool mystical land but really unimportant to the others.
>>916917
It was pretty irrelevant to the people already living in the Americas, yeah.
>>916917
Literally the rest of the world was irrelevant to Europe.
>2016
>thinking any form of global connections existed before the Age of Exploration
They were technologically far more advanced. Places in Asia might have been richer in terms of population and prosperity, but neither of achieved the marvels of technology and civilization as they emerged in Europe.
Everyone was irrelevant to most of the world until the West conquered it all. But who gives a shit what is relevant to some chinks or naked savages?
>>917673
>What is the silk route
>who is ghengis khan
>>917084
>Rome doesn't count because it goes against my europhobic narrative
Also you fags need to stop using the word "Europe", which has no historical meaning.
What did Belarus or Bulgaria contribute to it? What you're talking about is the West. A handful of countries, namely France, Britain, Italy, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Germany, and Austria.
>>917815
The silk road illustrates my point perfectly. There was no direct contact. Merchants would take chinese goods to other merchants and shit usually got exchanged with Europe in the middle east. There was never any direct contact between China and Europe. Shit just filtered through the middle east
>>917831
That is still today's core Europe, but everyone except Greece just jumped on the Europe bandwagon at some point.
>>917899
Europe is just meaningless (unless you take it to mean "white", and even then it's pretty approximate and misleading). There are three different civilisations that have covered parts of Europe, and none that covered all of it (except the West in the sense that it now covers the whole world).
>>917914
that's why the concept of Europe was born from difference from Asia and Africa, there never was a defined European identity (and there still isn't despite what the EU says), but everything that is not Asian or African is to be considered European.
>>917914
its cultural differences
stop being an edgelord
>>916917
>relevance / irrelevance
history knows no such dimension.
>>917950
Way to miss the point, in case you didn't notice I am agreeing with you when you say there is no such thing as a single European identity (and the same goes for Asia and Africa) but these broad definitions mean everything in the context of identity building in the European continent.
If you really believe Eastern Europe to not be Europe because it doesn't fit your WE WUZ WEST narrative you should also consider telling us what exactly they are since they're most definitely not Asian or Middle Eastern cultures.
>>917958
They're East European.
Trying to conflate Western and Eastern Europe into a single "European" identity has actually been extremely destructive in East European and especially Russian history and still causes severe conflicts and resentment today, which is why we should cut that shit out.
>>917986
>East Europeans are NOT Europeans!
How does this make sense? Listen nobody is denying Europeans have their differences, it would be retarded to do so, but splitting the European identity arbitrarily in two because of some XX century politics reason is equally retarded.
If modern Russians want to get butthurt about being called European I don't see how that is relevant, they were always on the periphery and never quite found their place as creators or innovators of European identity, they are a separate case that could be worth discussing.
Anything west of Russia though? Saying Czech Republic is definitely not Europe because they are slavs and were commies for example is fucking stupid.
>>918001
Define Europe
>>917084
>Rome doesn't count as Europe because Europe is within these arbitrary boundaries I've set
European culture today is different than it was at the time of Charlemagne, doesn't mean we can say that a part of culture in a part of time doesn't count as European.
>>916917
You could argue so, but I believe Europe was relevant the minute the HRE became relevant.
>>918114
Europe as an idea more than a geographic area is the place that was affected by the Greek-Roman world and that has roots in the Christian world. It is a place divided into smaller States that are linked by a perpetual and incessant exchange of ideas and cultural paradigms, Europeans are the people who have absorbed the influence of their neighbours and who contributed themselves to shape this identity. East Europeans might not be the most significant contributors but I fail to see the big difference in terms of ways of life from the West Europeans, at least I don't see how it is more significant than other difference inside the Western World, compare Sicily to Scotland for example.
Renaissance, Enlightenment and Romanticism are the most significant eras in which the modern European identity took the shape we know today, and by the late XVIII century Eastern Europe was beyond a doubt part of the European world more than anything else so why try to refuse them their identity.
>>916917
Irrelevant to who? The only other big players in the world were China and the Ottomans. Everyone was irrelevant to China because everyone else wasn't China, and the Ottomans made mad dosh off of Europe and the spice trade so that's a form of relevance.
Europe was only relevant for 300 years, it's irrelevant now
>>918001
East Europeans are not Western.
>>917831
>What did Bulgaria contribute to it?
'MRRICAN education
>>919531
retard post
>>918001
How stupid are you?
There is no such thing as Europeans, how many times do you need this explained?
>>917866
>implying Indian ocean trade didn't exist
>implying their weren't arabs in Chinese coastal cities.
>And Chinese in Southeast Asia
How did you think Islam spread to SEAsia?
>>919624
Nice rebuttal namefag
so far none of you has given a logical explaination to the thesis that there is no such thing as European identity, resorting to name calling is really the only thing you're capable of doing?
>>916917
Every civilization was irrelevant until Europe essentially conquered the world. Considering that today the government, law, arts, economy, trade, military, infrastructure, and communication systems of every single country in the world all derive from early modern Europe, I'd say that's an accomplishment.
>>917831
>Bulgaria contribute to it?
What is Cyrillic?
>European
>Civilization
what? Nigga, Europe is a continent made up of a shit ton of different civs
>>920446
>namefag
well aren't you an April fool
>>917084
>Rome doesn't count even though most European languages are derived from Latin and Rome is situated in Italy
>>916917
>''''European Civilization''''
That didn't exist in the XV century and I'm not really sure it exists now.
One of the ''European Civilizations'' that existed back then was the direct or indirect heir of Greco-Roman legacy, and under the banner of the Latin Church of Rome as opposed to the Orthodox Church of Constantinople. Basically what evolved to be called the West.
It was pretty relevant in an euro-mediterranean context until then and it became the most relevant worlwide after that.
>>921313
>most
You are misusing that word, Javier
>>919721
b...by the sword...
>>917086
Dont you know?
