The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.
>>903626
The historian looks backward. In the end he also believes backward.
"It's blood all the way down"
>>903626
>mfw people unironically believe this
>>903829
t. Classcuck
>>903839
What are you implying? That you're somehow not a member of a class?
>>903626
is it tho?
what about pre-agricultural society?
>>903842
Class is a spook
>>903858
Spooks are irrelevant, desu.
>>903858
Spook is a spook
>>903626
>believe in historical materialism
>publish a manifesto thus proving that communism requires explicit ideology
f a m . . .
>>903858
Kek
>>903930
You're an idiot and don't understand marx's materialism
>>903626
Communism is like a naive child talking about shit he knows nothing about, and ignoring any kind of fact an experiment. If you eliminate capital there will be other means of power or explotation.
Power relations are born spontaneously not what a fucking paper says. If you want to create the pefect system, don't let humans manage it.
>>905674
You mean that communism is possible if AI was in charge?
>>905678
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn
>>905678
Not that anon but ideally you have a decentralized system with nothing in charge at a top level.
>>905674
Communism isn't perfect in the Christian sense, Communism is perfect in the human sense. Get your facts straight, fedora.
>>903689
jesus christ
>>905746
What matters is who controls the mode of production.
>>903689
De Maistre was so fucking depressing, Jesus. Imagining having dinner with the man.
jej
>>905823
>he thinks economies can be controlled
>>905851
>>905873
Hm? Those two things are completely consistent.
Have you ever met a self-described communist who wasn't a raging faggot?
>>905902
No.
>>905902
No, but then again I've never met a Nazi, monarchist, socialist, or anarchist who wasn't a raging faggot either.
Normal people who aren't total weird faggots generally have neither the time nor the inclination to spend time researching and promoting fringe political ideologies.
>>905887
*tips fedora*
Not at all, my chubby friend with an ugly beard.
>>905902
No, but I've met self-described fans of Stirner that weren't.
>>905919
Epic post, friendo. I guess I've lost this one.
>>905924
You weren't even a contender.
Seriously though, the entire critique of the Soviet system is that it was totalitarian, but then you say economies can't be controlled. That's a blatant contradiction. You gotta do something besides disagree if you wanna do anything but pic related.
It's not class that drives history, but caste.
More specifically, the eternal struggle between warrior castes and priestly castes and their different iterations. Our current age has entrepeneurs/businessmen as "warrior caste" and intellectuals/bureaucrats as "priestly caste".
It's guelphs and ghibellines all the way down. The whole "class struggle" meme is just a way the intellectual caste found to rabble-rouse the plebs into supporting their interests.
>>903626
>The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.
>Class is a social construct
leftists on suicide watch
>>905950
>intellectual class
>controlling anything
Intellectuals are the servants of power, never have they had any.
>>905935
>Seriously though, the entire critique of the Soviet system is that it was totalitarian, but then you say economies can't be controlled. That's a blatant contradiction.
Uh, no, the former provides evidence for the latter. The Soviet system was totalitarian, and because complex economies can't be controlled, it was not able to deliver the standard of living seen in other developed countries and eventually collapsed.
>>905935
I don't see a contradiction. is it not possible for a government to not be totalitarian or have a controlled economy?
>>905965
You know those aren't contradictory right?
>>905965
>>Class is a social construct
Says no leftist ever
>>905975
college campuses
>>905968
>is it not possible for a government to not be totalitarian or have a controlled economy?
Of course it's possible, but you just admitted it's possible to control an economy.
>>905967
Oh so what you're saying is, an entire economy must be controlled in every minute detail 100% to exact perfection for it to be controlled?
That's a fucking stupid statement and you're completely retarded. Marx didn't reject markets. Marx didn't want a 100% controlled economy, and nobody is arguing for that or believes that. You're just spewing bullshit and making shit up.
>>905985
It's even easier than insisting that someone doesn't truly grasp the subtleties of Marx's dialectic or w/e
>>905975
I'm guessing they went to college.
>>905989
>implying you're not a NEET who has never stepped foot in higher learning
>>905983
>Because something is a construct means it's not important or existing
Please stop being retarded.
dat unfalsifiable theory
>>905998
>Oh so what you're saying is, an entire economy must be controlled in every minute detail 100% to exact perfection for it to be controlled?
No, I'm saying the Soviet Union attempted economic control to an extent that was not viable.
>That's a fucking stupid statement and you're completely retarded
Stop hitting yourself dweeb
>>905998
>Of course it's possible, but you just admitted it's possible to control an economy
So you're just being pedantic?
>>905998
it's not that economies can't be controlled, it's that it's nearly impossible to do a good job at it, especially in a large country like the Soviet Union
>>906005
haha nice epic hat meme /b/ro
you fucking showed that loser xD
>>906005
nah I was just suggesting a good place to find them
>>906025
>Yeah, which contradicts exactly what he said
Again
>The soviet union was a totalitarian system
>Economies can't be controlled
No contradiction as long as you include the essential
>The Soviet Union deprived its people and totally collapsed
>>906025
if you weren't so autistic then you would realize that when people say economies can't be controlled they don't mean it literally but in the sense that I just mentioned
>>906030
>>The Soviet Union deprived its people and totally collapsed
That's not essential to the logic of the sentence at all you pedant faggot.
>conc HCl reacts with nickel to produce hydrogen gas
>OMFG YOU DIDN'T MENTION THE PART WHERE ACID BURNS YOUR SKIN YOU PEDANT
literally stop making irrelevant comments
>>906036
Amen - the success of economic control is a function of the scale and complexity of the economy in question. Economic control worked just fine for barons who wanted a few villages and a bunch of horses, but it gets weaker as systems get much larger than that.
>>906036
If you weren't so stupid you could speak clearly and not make horrible mistakes in logic, which when recognized refute your own message.
>>905533
>Point out something wrong with Marxism.
>you don't understand what he meant!!!11!
The cycle continues.
>>906044
>That's not essential to the logic of the sentence at all you pedant faggot.
Yeah, it is, because there's only a contradiction if you say the Soviet Union was a successful totalitarian system. It wasn't, so there is no contradiction in saying it tried something and that thing didn't work.
>>906046
No, the size of an economy is limited by the extent of the market, not by any intrinsic magical force of the universe. With unlimited transportation potential you could have a totalitarian government that's humane and efficient.
>>903829
You fell for the obvious bait
I hope all of you retards get banned so that you don't bump future bait threads
Sage, report, ignore
>>905830
>De Maistre was so fucking metal, Jesus. Imagine having dinner with the man.
Ftfy
>>903626
>listening to Jew who never worked in a factory
Marx is a champagne socialist.
>>906057
why the hell are you using fedora images to mock people when communism is extremely euphoric?
>>905873
Those two things aren't in disagreement.
>>906065
>No, the size of an economy is limited by the extent of the market, not by any intrinsic magical force of the universe.
You're misreading, I wasn't saying that. Manorialism often restricted commerce to designated areas, which limited it to a controllable size.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_town
>With unlimited transportation potential you could have a totalitarian government that's humane and efficient.
As long as it was a simple government. Controlling a complex system requires a complex controller.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_(cybernetics)#The_Law_of_Requisite_Variety
>>906059
>Yeah, it is, because there's only a contradiction if you say the Soviet Union was a successful totalitarian system.
read:
>he thinks economies can be controlled
did he leave off the word SUCCESSFULLY? absolutely. We can have plenty of control over economies, just not unlimited control, WHICH WAS NEVER THE FUCKING ASSERTION OF COMMUNISM. Your entire point is arguing against a ghost, a specter, something nobody ever believed.
And actually, the Soviet system was not an entire failure, it did manage to be the biggest threat to American society for 40-50 years, and even was an existential threat before WW2
>>906084
> As long as it was a simple government
[er- as long as its projects were not more complex than the government]
>>906087
>did he leave off the word SUCCESSFULLY? absolutely. We can have plenty of control over economies, just not unlimited control, WHICH WAS NEVER THE FUCKING ASSERTION OF COMMUNISM. Your entire point is arguing against a ghost, a specter, something nobody ever believed.
Nah, I'm arguing against the words that you posted on this anonymous anime imageboard.
>>906087
it was already a failure in the 70s. if they hadn't gotten an oil boom about that time the Soviet Union would have been even shittier near the end and possibly have collapsed sooner
>>906079
>not getting classcucked
>euphoric
Yeah it feels good to not metaphorically suck the dick of the Trumps of the world
>>906084
>Manorialism often restricted commerce to designated areas, which limited it to a controllable size.
Not materialist enough, I'm not looking at localized society, read Adam Smith
>As long as it was a simple government. Controlling a complex system requires a complex controller.
>citing random cybernetics principles to justify something you don't understand
it's like, the most basic historical razor to look at how commodities could be transported. logistics underweight the gain of trade. if we could nearly instantly transport anything in the world anywhere, maintaining that system logistically would underweigh the gains in trade. this is pretty historically confirmed bruh, muh >scifi artificial intelligence wikipedia pages have nothing to do with that
>>906106
so you admit that you are a fedora?
>>906106
>this is pretty historically confirmed bruh, muh >scifi artificial intelligence wikipedia pages have nothing to do with that
Beats the magic carpet world of goods that choose where they're going of their own volition
>>906109
I'd prefer not to be purged by a scizo
>>906116
>I'd prefer not to be purged by a scizo
*tips fedora*
>>906119
Seriously, stop.
Fedora is such a 2014 meme.
>>906130
it's a shitty meme and it's even shittier when it's being used outside of its original context by a communist of all people, which is by far the most euphoric group
>>906121
I already addressed that like twice
repeating utter irrelevancies won't change a goddamned thing
Let's state some facts:
1. nobody ever believes all aspects of an economy can be controlled entirely
2. since #1 is true, when somebody says "control an economy", they mean to a certain extent
3. since #2 is true, when i say "the soviets controlled their economy", i mean to an extent
4. note that there is absolutely no normative estimates in any of these statements. "control" does not mean "control for the benefit of the people"
5. *tips fedora*
>>905902
Yes, she was manifestly straight, but did pretend to be a lesbian.
>>906173
Yes it does. The Soviet system sucked because they tried to control the economy. Ergo you can't say "controlling economies cannot be done" and also provide that critique of the Soviet system.
Are you really this retarded?
>>906183
> The Soviet system sucked because they tried to control the economy
> Ergo you can't say "controlling economies cannot be done" and also provide that critique of the Soviet system
A man tried to fly by leaping from a tower and flapping his arms, failed and died.
>Ergo, you can't say "a man can't fly by leaping from a tower flapping his arms" and also say that he failed and died.
Are you?
>>905935
That's not a contradiction in any way
>>905678
Natural selection will inevitably crop up in any system. There's no reason to think AI would be any more immune than humans.
>>906057
Everybody but you understood what he meant. You're the dumb ass for confusing the different ways in which people use the word "control" that everybody else in this thread picked up through context. You can have legal authority over something without having the ability to make it do whatever you want it to, but given the hatposting I'm going to assume you knew this and are just being obtuse.
>>905950
sounds like a hobbled interpretation of the trifunctional hypothesis
>>905966
Are you sure they don't serve as mediators? It seems odd to say that anybody truly has no power.
>>906058
>The cycle continues
>>905965
>Class is a social construct
If it weren't, it would be no use doing politics around it, would it?
