Let's be honest, Muslims in the Middle Ages were pretty badass, weren't they?
These dudes were kicking the shit out of Persia and Byzantium while Europe was mostly a gagglefuck of squabbling kingdoms and city states. They had immense cavalry, and the idea of them starting out as mere tribes from the middle of nowhere and forging powerful empires. They also left a legacy that is still felt today.
>>900611
>kicking the shit out of Persia and Byzantium
>a desirable thing
apart from you know the middle east being the site of most technological advances until 1600 or so
The middle east is a fairly cool place until relatively recently in history.
Shame it's now hell on earth.
>>900611
>These dudes were kicking the shit out of Persia
That's one of the greatest tragedies in history, right up there with the holocaust
>>900687
apart from prince of persia what does persia actually contribute to the modern world
>>900611
ISIS is the Islamic Reformation.
Chickenshit murderous cowards.
>>900698
The Radical Reformation of Islam, you mean, not the Magisterial, and the roots of both going back to the late 19th, early 20th centuries
The Arab renaissance was a breath of fresh air to medieval despondency in Europe that choked free thought and the development of science.
They gave the number system, algebra, alchemy, new architecture and design and arts as their unique synthesis. Where the world would now if it depended on the Greek-Roman number system?
>>900787
Those arab numbers were a little bit tweaked to look like what we use today.
>haven't been on /his/ for a while
>someone on another board says /his/ is awful now and is pretty much ISIS sympathizers inc.
>assume he's full of shit but check anyway
>first thing i see is this thread
What the hell is going on with this board?
>>900787
>number system
Indian.
>algebra
Greek and Indian.
>alchemy
Oh yeah, I'm transforming water into gold right now, thanks muslims!
>new architecture
Persian.
>and design and arts as their unique synthesis
Makes up for all the bombings
>Where the world would now if it depended on the Greek-Roman number system?
Are you implying that inventions can only happen once and it's impossible for them to be made elsewhere?
>>900849
>ISIS
>Medieval period
Yeah. Try to think that one through, if it doesn't hurt your head too much.
>>900856
>implying civilizations never build on the work of others
>implying the Muslims contributed 0 (zero) in 500 years
End yourself desu
>>900861
>Muslims are awesome guys seriously!
>I wasn't talking about ISIS though just different muslims that believed the same things and killed people for the same reasons
Obviously there aren't going to be literal ISIS threads here, stop being ridiculous
>>900883
If you think progressive historical figures like Saladin and Mehmed II can be compared to barbaric groups like ISIS then I despair.
>>900856
>India
Muslims modified the number system
>Greek and Indian
Ancient Greek mathematics are superficial compared to the middle ages. Muslims took and expanded indian mathematics, hence why Europe was influenced by them (Al Khwarizmi)
>Oh yeah, I'm transforming water to gold right now. Thanks Muslims!
Are you serious?
>Persian
Persians aren't muslim?
>Implying that inventions can only happen once
Ideas get passed around and they get steadily improved by others.
>>900893
No, Persian aren't Muslim retard.
>>900892
>they were right about what happened to /his/
thanks for confirming, was just checking. have a good one
>>900900
Weak bait
>>900904
They don't. Muslims can only take credit for the things they accomplished which are improvements from things already establishes. I suppose Europeans aren't allowed to take credit for things that happened in the Renaissance since they were heavily influenced by the ancient Greeks and Romans? The idea that Muslims contributed to nothing is a corrupt, banal belief that should be taken elsewhere.
>>900611
The crusaders who actually met them considered them worthy opponents with the wrong faith
Lol, what? Persian history is so overrated that dumb Europeans think if it's shia that it means they are less wild than Sunnis goat-fuckers.
For thousand years they were ruled by turkic nomads,
They use Arabian scripts in their alphabet,
And now they are durka shithole with Azeri ayatollah as their head of state
Persiaboos such as byzantineboos should be hanged on cranes
>>900694
You know that in Sassanid times, their physicians were already postulating theories about anti-bodies right? Also the Academy of Jundishapur/Gondishapur which was famed for its philosophers and scientists.
Also here do some reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayyam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_al-Din_al-Tusi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Razi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabir_ibn_Hayyan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kam%C4%81l_al-D%C4%ABn_al-F%C4%81ris%C4%AB
>>900957
Great shitpost.
>>900883
>OBVIOUSLY OP wasn't talking about history on /his/
>>900616
It is when the ones kicking ass make them better, which they did.
>>900675
>Shame it's now hell on earth.
Not exactly of its own making
>>900912
Anon, who is 'they'?
>>900762
I'm saying that if you want to see how Mohammad and crew started, and operated, watch al-Baghdadi and his crew.
>>901021
>>900928
>I suppose Europeans aren't allowed to take credit for things that happened in the Renaissance since they were heavily influenced by the ancient Greeks and Romans
And, of course, Muslims.
>>901028
Yeah but pretty much everyone operated like that back then.
>>901028
t. profsesor of izlamig studes :DDDDD
>>901028
Which is as dumb as saying you should watch anything done today to get an understanding of how things worked and happened more than ten centuries ago.
They didn't have Twitter or Toyota technicals in the 7th century.
>>901028
But there's literally zero (0) similarity.
>>900611
Turks were badass. Arabs were just hairy little shits who got BTFO from all sides.
>>901010
No. Its not.
Neither here nor there I suppose. It is now what it is. Regardless of who's fault it is.
>>901064
t. Mehmet my son
Everyone knows Abbasids/Umayyads>>>>>Ottomans
While Arabs did get their shit slapped around a lot during the high middle ages, I still cannot understand how this guy defeated both the Mongols AND completely kicked out the Crusaders within the span of a few years.
>>900611
>Let's be honest, Muslims in the Middle Ages were pretty badass, weren't they?
No, they weren't. It's just that europe was too disorganized.
>>901075
>Abbasids and Umayyads
>Middle Ages
>>901077
And that invalidates OP's assertion how? I could say the same about the ME today, that doesn't stop the West from being awesome.
>>901080
>I don't know when the middle ages were
>>901085
>And that invalidates OP's assertion how?
It's easy to the candy away from a retarded kid.
it still baffles me how a man with a few followers in the desert would eventually give rise to the empires that would take the biggest and most well defended city in the entire world.
>>901091
But medieval arabs' most impressive achievements had nothing to do with combating Europe. And once again, the same could be said about any large power conquering weaker/disorganised powers but that doesn't mean that no empire in history is impressive.
ITT: self congratulatory third world bastards in one big and collective WE WUZ outrcy
>>901076
Acre and Antioch could have been crushed at any time in the decade or so prior to Baibars, but there existed a well entrenched trade network connecting the cities of Syria with the Mediterranean through the Crusader States so there wasn't much political will to completely wipe them out.
The Mongol rampage through Central Asia however destroyed the Silk Road trade however, which crushed that trade relationship Acre had with its neighbors. Couple that with Baibar's ability and the militant ideology of the Mamelukes, Acre's time was up.
The Mongols were beaten the same way they were beaten in Hungary - defense in depth where the vulnerable cities of Syria were replaced with a network of formidable castles spanning hundreds of miles deep into the border that gave Egypt the time to mobilize its central army and strike once the Mongol offensive for the season had lost enough steam from assaulting castle after castle.
>>900787
Arabic numerals were invented by the Indians. They're called Arabic numerals because they were falsely attributed as a creation of the Arabs by Europeans.
>>901107
>appreciating a historical empire/culture is self congratulatory and could only be done by descendants of that culture
In that case, appreciating Romans, Greeks, ancient egyptians, the British empire, etc. Are all WE WUZ "outcries"
>>900849
Sorry friend but it appears you're in the wrong place.
/pol/ is what you're looking for. It's an echo chamber for babbies who can't handle civil discourse.
>>901139
>In that case, appreciating Romans, Greeks, ancient egyptians, the British empire, etc. Are all WE WUZ "outcries"
But the Greeks Romans and Ancient Egyptians were really great, not just 'pseudo' great.
>>901095
Like with the equally baffling thought that a carpenter nailed to some wood would eventually give rise to a massive religious infrastructure that dealt with kings and emperors as their equals or even betters, the trick is to not fall into the narrative that the followers want to be true (baffling being synonymous with miraculous and God's Will).
Instead think of it as a battle hardened collection of city-state tribes of Western Arabia and Syria replacing the unpopular governors and upper class landowners from Greece and Persia doing what they did best for centuries fighting for and against the Greeks and Persians.
>>901147
>Only the civilizations I consider great are great
>I alone am the authority on what history can be appreciated
>>901147
Romans mostly just built on other people's stuff much like the Medieval Muslims.
>>901100
>safe space
ya that's for idiots that have massive cognitive dissonance about their beliefs/worldview. Muslims are pretty much the definition of that. I'll debate you(and crush you) all day long about how shit they are in general, but I know you would not do the same. Been down this road too many times
>>901125
No, they were called Arabic numerals because they were the numerals in popular use by North African Arabs at the time. Europeans knew they originated from India, al-Khwarizmi said so himself in the book they all read, but those numbers were not the same as the ones they eventually received and adopted themselves.
>>901147
>arbitrarily deciding who's great and who isn't
Why can't you just admit that Arabs made their own contributions and helped not only preserve valuable knowledge from preceding cultures but also greatly improved on many of them (which is pretty much what scientific and cultural advancement are).
>>901146
>does not agree with me
>does not give any sort of counter argument
>tells me to leave
Tell me about about echo chambers
>>901158
>I spend my days arguing about Muslims from a contemporary viewpoint all day every day on an Indonesian basket weaving commune
>>901158
This isn't about Muslims. This is about medieval Muslims and considering how incapable you seem to be of viewing certain aspects of history objectively when they go against your opinions, I would say you are experiencing cognitive dissonance. But go ahead, tell me how medieval Muslims are 100% useless and bad.
>>901171
Refusing to echo an opinion sort of makes a place the opposite of an echo chamber.
>>901158
I like to imagine the people that post like this.
>I'll debate you(and crush you) all day long about how shit they are in general, but I know you would not do the same. Been down this road too many times
>I'm way more involved in this nonsense than you are, my life is a boring loop and I think this will impress you
>>901171
>Doesnt offer any argument other than "waaah people are hating on mudslimes here"
>Expects some sort of profound counter argument
Stop liking what I don't like!!!
>>901173
The first part of your post isn't even coherent.
>>901189
Is this more coherent?
>>901196
Now it's just off topic.
>>901196
What does this have to do with the thread? The thread is about medieval Muslims. Why do you feel the need to turn it into a discussion on Muslims in the modern/contemporary era.
>>901196
>He's a buttmad Israeli
This makes so much more sense.
>>901186
my life is boring, I will not refute that. I also don't give a shit about impressing you.
The fact that this board gets so triggered when someone points out that muslims are human trash as a point of fact though, that's pretty god damn weird. Most of 4chan, while they may be a bunch of faggots at least know that piece of information
>>901220
Yeah man, 4chan is just garbage except when it agrees with you.
>>901209
medieval Muslims are modern muslims, that is the god damn problem. They didn't change, and any changes they did make were for the worse
>>901220
>triggered
Really. Who was the one that had to literally jump into the one Muslim/Islam related thread on the front page telling everyone how shocked they are that people are talking like normal human beings.
>>901213
>it's DA JOOZ
>>901220
>Only opinions that coincide with mine are facts
Fucking kek. Seriously get off the internet kid. This is just getting embarrassing.
You clearly have no interest in the thread's topic. Just leave.
>>901226
>4chan- not a bunch of faggots
how fucking new are you? don't argue about that if you just got here yesterday
>>901228
>medieval Muslims are modern Muslims
>a culture hasn't changed after at least a millenium has passed
Jesus Christ, this may be the dumbest thing I've read all day. Even if it were true, that still doesn't make their achievements any less impressive.
>>901228
>medieval Muslims are modern muslims, that is the god damn problem
Doesn't sound like a /his/ related problem.
>>901168
On what grounds would Arabs even compete with those cultures? Goat fucking?
>inb4 muh beautiful mosques
>>901220
>I don't understand why people get frustrated when I have to turn everything into a political discussion and call others fags for not agreeing with me
>>901244
OK i will spell it out for you. If i get a coherent argument against this i will truly be shocked. The major religions have hated each other, killed each other and have been trying to conquer/convert each other for a long long time.
In that sense, Muslims are the ones that have not changed. generally the other religions have stopped being mass murderers and savages, while they have not. They still hold the view they it's "us or them" and this is why they are acting the way they are.
They either need to be removed, or they need to change this attitude, unless you would like a 3rd world war
>>901252
>muh beautiful mosques
For starters, yeah. Trivializing things doesn't make them go away.
>>901252
>let me just ignore all literary, artistic, architectural, and scientific achievements made during the Islamic golden age
>saying inb4 is enough to completely invalidate a valid point.
>>901254
alright fair enough, as a history board what i'm saying isn't exactly on topic. i agree
>>901260
>Muslims
I really hate to say this but "not all muslims".
Besides, none of that had anything to do with the topic of this thread. Your points are the domain of /pol/, which is for political discussion, not /his/ which is for the discussion of the humanities and history.
>>901263
>the golden age
>all that i have to show off for my cultural achievements is a tinni tiny span of time of Persian intellectuals thriving
>>901267
Thank you. That's all I wanted to hear. Glad you're being honest
>>901279
>I will once again ignore all achievements by omission and (hopefully) feigning ignorance of them
>>901293
Off topic.
>>901260
>In that sense, Muslims are the ones that have not changed. generally the other religions have stopped being mass murderers and savages, while they have not.
Not really. What changed was the ability of each major religion to directly influence all affairs of state. What's happening with Muslims is that with the crushing of the old Muslim sultanates and the weakening of the secular institutions of the nation-states that replaced them, Muslims are once again able to influence politics in a way they haven't been able to for centuries, if ever.
>>901293
UAE
>>901289
Stay mad that Arabs were only ever useful for 100-200 years of conquest and went back to being goat fuckers in a desert.
WE WUZ MATHEMATICIANS AND CONQUERORS N SHIT
Itt : People who try to project mordern Politics and events into History
>>901390
#notallKKKmemberslynchedblacks
it was the hate group of peace
>>901351
>100-200 years
My oh my. You know nothing about the topic, what a surprise.
>>900611
They didn't kick the shit out of anybody except extremely weak fragile empires that had just ass blasted each other for 20 years. Islam would have been contained (possibly, not for sure though) to the Arabian peninsula if Byzantium and the Sassanids didnt kick the shit out of each other.
>>901390
ie /pol/weenies, hence their obsession with the crusades and Constantinople and how they think modern Turks are ethnically identical to Chinese people.
>>901488
Oh right only 128, Arabs are worse then I guessed.
>>901537
Followed by another 200 years of more decentralized but dynamic military adventures in France, Italy, and the Mediterranean until finally overtaken by Franks, Byzantines and Turks starting in the middle of the 10th century.
>>900611
lmao, that "gagglefuck" kicked the shit out of your muslims multiple times, despite you having home court advantage. they having fewer men, and having a stretched supply line.
I'm honestly amazed how people consider the Third Crusade a Muslim victory when it was literally a third of the intended army running Saladin up and down the land, until they both agreed to mutual terms
>>901537
Abbassids were around till the mid-13th century, you dumb cuck.
>>901568
being cucked by Turks then Mamlukes.
>>901574
>Mongols ! = Turks
>>900611
It's just a sect that got out of hand because ibn al-Walid was a great commander.
>>900623
>what is the Alexandrine Empire
Muslims ruined the Middle East. De-secularization always ruins things. The (pre-Roman Catholic) Christian faith used to be intellectually much more liberal than Islam. Byzantine Egypt, Syria and Palestine used to be the light of the world before Muslims invaded. Not an Islamophobe, just facts.
It's a sad thing neither Persia nor the Byzantine Empire could live up the legacy of Alexander.
>>901578
>Not an Islamophobe, just facts.
Surely then you could list some of these facts that support either statement about intellectual liberalism or how the Byzantine Middle East was the 'light of the world' compared to the supposed darkness of the Muslim period.
>>901577
The Abbasids were the Seljuks little bitch boy.
>>901599
They were more like the Pope to the HRE, deferential if controlling. It's the Buyids and the court ghulams that really put the Abbasids in a bad place.
>>901076
Baibars was a Kipchak nomad.
Not an Arab weakling.
>>901613
That's absolutely retarded. The Abbasid world was far more pluralistic than the period that followed the Mongol era, and Islamic expansion rose to new heights after the Mongols, whereas before it the spread of Muslim states were either stagnant or in serious decline.
>>901293
Turkey
>>901636
Mongols finished off the one and true Muslim Caliphate, The Abbasids. Since then, there has been no Caliphates. Only fake ones. and ISIS.
Its like the Vatican being sacked.
well all there doing today is blowing people up and harassing israel
>>901654
Maybe basing your religions leadership on one dudes bloodline isn't the best of plans?
>>901566
Agreed. Richard smacked Saladin around like a ball and took away all of his Levant conquests with the exception of Jerusalem because he had too few men to try and take it.
>>901654
>>901667
It wasn't about Caliphates at all. The Mongols gave rise to the Ilkhans and Timurids who in turn influenced the founding of the Ottomans, Safavids, and Mughals and further affected the religious development of the Mamelukes. All of them together more or less wiped or devastated much of what had been the old Christian Churches of Asia, the remnant Zoroastrian countryside of Iran, and so on.
Think of it this way - Under the Abbasids Nestorian Christianity managed to spread as far as Tibet and Mongolia, but after the Mongols wiped them out guess what happened to all those churches and communities?
>>900892
Saladin's "progressiveness" is 19th century fiction. Mehmed was a boy sodomizer, though I suppose this would make him progressive per leftism definition.
>>901147
That's not what the 'we wuz' meme is about, retard.
>>901712
Mmm. Nothing?
Christianity flowered in China until Mongol rule ended there. The all the Christian churches were banned by the Chinese.
>>901730
Exactly, after the Mongols.
>>901717
>Mehmed was a boy sodomizer
As were the Romans and Greeks, so they were leftists too?
>>901717
>>901717
Saladin wasn't hailed as a progressive, he was hailed as a noble and chivalrous aristocrat, and that reputation was as old as the Third Crusade itself.
>>901501
This is such a shitty argument which gets repeated here infintely.
The muslim armies in most i not all battles were heavily outnumbered by both the romans and the persians and still managed to completely wreck them.
That atleast is admirable.
>>901717
>Mehmed was a boy sodomizer
Give me a source for that if you please because the only one I know is a wikipedia article about some butthurt orthodox priest.
>>901814
>size determines quality
I wasn't taking away from them by the way. The fact that they maintained these huge gains is proof of their prowess in battle.
The conquests began as raids that turned into empire-ending land grabs against two very weak states. They were also welcomed and aided by people in the areas they were conquering.
>>901836
>butthurt
Kek
>>901839
But that would mean that the romans and persians would be weak and mismanaged there armies I mean decades should be enough to rebuild an army especially if there was a threat of a new war.
>>901865
What would you see as a great civilization then ?
>>900623
What technological innovations came from the middle east? Not including Persia, Anatolia or central Asia
>>901942
İt doesn't suck its just that the muslim world had shitty things happen to it since the decline of the ottomans.
How can billions of people be so fucking retarded?
>>901960
Being bombed constantly isn't the best environment to stimulate intelligence.
>>901723
At least their WE WUZ is founded onto something substantial instead of being proud for having a history riddled with child benders, retard.
>>901960
I don't think Religion has anything to do with intelligence.
>>901942
>Bill Warner
>>901988
Actually being constantly persecuted semi nomads kept only the smartest jews alive.
>>901969
Is that why you have done nothing in sciences since the Golden age? Because you were bombed?
>>901988
>>being persecuted by the Nazis isn't the best environment to stimulate intelligence
It isn't, which is why most who could got to escape to greener pastures.
My knowledge on the middle east isn't really up to speed, is it possible that any of you guys can tell me which countries were behind:
> Sykes-Pikot
> The State of Israel
> Establishing illegitimate client kingdoms all over the Middle East
> Removing the democratically elected Mossadegh
> Selling weapons to both sides during Iran-Iraq war
> Arming what would later become the Taleban
> Arming what would later become ISIS
> Financially backing dictators like Mubarak for years
> Destabilizing Lybia
> Destabilizing Iraq
> Colonizing North Africa
Because these things, which all occurred within the last 100 years, might have had a little bit to do with the modern idea of the Middle East as a chaotic, violent and backwards place...
>>901998
I personally wasn't but most muslim countries are very recently free and after that there were frequent wars and now shit in the mid east is going wrong again.
>>902008
E T E R N A L A N G L O
>>901865
you mean like literally every other civilization in history? (Maybe beside the Polynesians)
>>902014
>Hibernating since the 13th century
>because of the west
seems legit
>>901969
Well maybe muslims should stop bombing themselves constantly
>>902008
Japan literally got nuked and has no ressources to speak of.
Europe lay in ruins after WW2.
>>902098
it's not the bombs that's the problem per se, it's the subversive elements with foreign backing (admittedly, much of which comes from other Muslim countries), the idiotic borders and the lack of self-determination.
Post WW2 Europe and Japan were largely ethnically and religiously homogenous and were allowed to establish governments with popular support.
>>902144
>it's the subversive elements with foreign backing
Yeah, none of that in europe.
>the idiotic borders and the lack of self-determination.
So it is the wests fault that Arabs/muslims are incapable of establishing those?
>Post WW2 Europe was ethnically homogenous
Surely you are kidding.
>were allowed to establish governments with popular support.
Allowed by whom?
You are romanticizing Arabs/Muslims while at the same time denying them agency because you know that they inferior.
>>902169
> Yeah, none of that in Europe
The communist elements in Western Europe were nowhere near as powerful in relative terms as the sectarian elements in most Muslim countries. The Rote Armee Fraktion, the most notorious subversive faction in postwar Europe, was what, a dozen people?
> So it's the Wests' fault taht Arabs Muslims are incapable of establishing those
It is when the West set the borders after Sykes-Picot, establish an apartheid regime in Israel, remove democratically elected leaders and either militarily and financially support certain ruthless dictators while removing others almost arbitrarily. All the Europan democracies were established after years of stability guaranteed by strong, autocratic systems, any attempt at establishing such have failed miserably, thanks in part to the West.
> Surely you are kidding
No I'm not. Millions of Germans, Poles, etc. were forcibly moved. Borders were drawn almost autistically to fit with the ethnic demographics. These are facts.
> you are romanticizing
The quote you are responding to literally puts a lot of blame on Arabs/Muslims themselves. Apparently anything but the black/white LOL MUDSLIMES point of view is SJW-tier to you. Please fuck off back to your containment board.
>>902194
>The communist elements in Western Europe were nowhere near as powerful in relative terms as the sectarian elements in most Muslim countries. The Rote Armee Fraktion, the most notorious subversive faction in postwar Europe, was what, a dozen people?
Funny how you managed to ignore the FUCKING USSR
>It is when the West set the borders after Sykes-Picot, establish an apartheid regime in Israel, ....
All of this is either false or equally true for europe as well.
Europe is among the most war torn places on the planet.
>No I'm not. Millions of Germans, Poles, etc. were forcibly moved. Borders were drawn almost autistically to fit with the ethnic demographics. These are facts.
European countries are largely ethnically homogenous, europe isn't.
When it comes to religion, europe is "diverse" as well, we just stopped killing each other over it.
>Apparently anything but the black/white LOL MUDSLIMES point of view is SJW-tier to you
LOL MUDSLIMES is literally true.
If you believe that nuclear reactors are powered by djinns, you might just be retarded.
>>902209
> the fucking USSR
If anything, the USSR only helped to unify these countries under the threat of a common enemy. Communist guerillas were more of a thing in South America, Africa and Asia.
> equally true for Europe as well
Apples and bananas. Are you seriously comparing 16th century Europe to Modern Middle East. Are you that dense?
> European countries are ethnically homogenous
What the fuck did you think I was referring to? Could you not discern from the word "borders" that I was referring to the countries, not the continent as a whole? Do you speak English?
>>902218
>If anything, the USSR only helped to unify these countries under the threat of a common enemy. Communist guerillas were more of a thing in South America, Africa and Asia.
Ok, so constant threat of war, endless subversion and ideological differences unified europe (except it was literally cut in half), but they destroy the middle east.
>Apples and bananas. Are you seriously comparing 16th century Europe to Modern Middle East. Are you that dense?
Even 16th century europe was more advanced.
If you think that post 16th or even post WW1/WW2 Europe was rainbows and unicorns you might wanna have yourself tested.
>What the fuck did you think I was referring to? Could you not discern from the word "borders" that I was referring to the countries, not the continent as a whole? Do you speak English?
Alright, middle eastern countries are largely ethnically homogenous as well.
Everything sout of Syria is Arab galore, Kurds are the only relevant minority that doesn't have a state (guess who is helping them get one in Iraq and protected them from saddam? That's right, the evil west).
The reason they kill each other is their retarded tribalism, ironically mohammed invented his vision to cure that problem, instead they have just transplanted it into their religion.
Just admit you are wrong kid.
Muslim countries are shit because they are muslim.
>>902246
you cannot understand the fundamental difference between a country and a continent and you seem to think that all Arabs are one ethnic group. I don't know what to do with you.
>>902098
>Japan literally got nuked
Can we finally stop overrating those things?
They flattened a square mile in two cities and killed a quarter million people in a country with population 70,000,000.
Conventional (incendiary LMAO) air campaign also killed quarter million people on top of turning half of the country to fucking dust. Tokyo was virtually wiped from the map through conventional bombing.
>>900675
Unless you're in the active warzones, some of it is still nice/enjoyable. The food is cheap and people you meet are really friendly. The best parts of the mideast are probably safer than being in most of Latin America, Asia or Africa.
>>901667
Islam, not even Shi`i Islam, is based on Muhammad's bloodline.
>>901228
>they didn't change
>their changes made them worse tho!
at least try to be coherent you fucking mongoloid. besides that, you are missing the entire point
hot off ms-paint
>>901754
So your admitting the Muslims were (are) thousands of years behind Europeans?
>>901960
>NP is regulated by Jews
Hmm
>>901578
>The (pre-Roman Catholic) Christian faith used to be intellectually much more liberal than Islam.
This has to be bait.
>Pic related
>>901654
>Mongols finished off the one and true Muslim Caliphate
Wrong. The Abbasid lineage continued in Cairo under effective protection of the Mamluks, and with a merely nominal authority.
In 1517, the Ottomans invaded Egypt, and forced the resignation of Al-Mutawakkil III, the last Abbasid Caliph in favor of the Ottoman Sultan Selim I. The claim was widely disputed, but the Ottomans were able to assert their supremacy over the Islamic World in the course of a few decades. The Caliphate was abolished in 1924 during the Kemalist reforms in Turkey.
It's safe to say that best Muslims are non-Arabs, like Turks and Iranians
even fucking Saladin was a Kurd
>>900611
is Kingdom of Heaven worth watching?
>>903044
>turks
>good, ever, at all
>>904582
If you're not looking for a history lesson, it's a decent movie.
>>904582
No.
>>900694
Are you serious
>>904582
Only the directors cut and don't expect historical accuracy.
It's not bad. Bloom is the weakest part though. Which is a shame considering how great the rest of the casting is.
>>900611
They're badass and all, they're like the vikings of the desert, but loss of East and the treatment of Christians under them is a horrible tragedy.
They got totally fucked during the First Crusade though.
>>900849
I know what you mean.
This place seems to be teeming with atheists and leftists now.
I expected this place to be less left-leaning.
Then again historians are pretty left-leaning.
>>904643
Turks are a cancer on their own but even so they're far better than Arabs and their shitty tribal culture
>>900611
>Persia
>Byzantium
>middle ages
>>904783
ur so smart brooo nice memetext
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Middle_Ages
>>900808
You're comparing apples with oranges. I'm not saying that the arabic conquests of the persian empire and large parts of the roman empire wasn't an achievement but both empires were severly weakened at the time after first suffering tremendously deadly plagues and then fighting a prolonged and devastating war against eachother.
The arabs had also served for centuries as mercenaries, auxillaries and allies to both Rome and Persia and as such were used to their way of fighting. Their knowledge of the arabian desert and their capability to withstand its harshness was likewise a big advantage as it meant that they didn't have to smash through border defenses to get into both empires as the desert itself was what had safeguarded the borders up untill then.
The parts of the roman empire that they conquered was also by far the wealthiest regions of it which gave them an insane advantage from then on.
Simply put, no medieval european state had the same opportunity as the arabs had when they roflstomped the romans and persians
>>904648
No it's not. The characters are all one-dimensional and there isn't a single line of dialogue that isn't propaganda for Scott's agenda.
>>901076
He was Turkic.
Basically Turkic led muslim world was
Pretty strong
It only went downhill when Oil got super important and imperialist forces planted nationalistic ideas into Arab heads, who then, being the epic muslims they are, betrayed their muslim bros
Now the whole area is a shitfest and everyone but the people who live there profit.
i say its fair thing to happen to them.
>>900611
Pff, it was pretty easy to build an empire if your religion system had no international power, they could killed whoever they want, whenever they want. Power was extremely centralised.
They did what they did becouse of their tyranical systems. Bizantium or Europe Nations actually had rules and people had more right thats why they could not conquest themselves so easly.
Thats why muslim caliphates where so instable.
Another myth is that they were military "smart", this is also false, the conquest of constantinople
is one of the more shameful and disgustings event in world history. 300.000 ottomans and 5.000 byzantium, ottomans suffering heavy looses. Huge army again becouse the people was pratically force to fight and the gold thos tyrants raids from their own people.
So yeah, they sucked so hard.
>>905031
Arabian desert advantage of Arabs have been nullified in the past by good commanders and military leaders though. The current ones just weren't up to snuff and both the Persians and Romans/Byzantines were weakened when the Arabs exploded into conquest mode.
>>905566
what is Scott's agenda?
>>902098
It had the full might of the US behind it. Same thing with South Korea.
>>900611
Why did the Moors taint my blood. Why did the knights of Castile not do enough.
>>905789
Anti-Christian, anti-European, anti-Western.
>>905932
To add to this: These same views are also clear in his movies Conquest of Paradise and Robin Hood.
>>904752
But middle eastern christians were treated better under them than by other christians such as eastern rome.
>>905714
Are you sure it wasn't one million ottomans and 5 byzantines :d
>>905963
Christians were forced to convert, otherwise they'd be in constant danger of being raped/killed/enslaved and they'd also be taxed over 20% of their income, which was more than almost all could afford to lose.
What a shame some people just sheep plain nonsense with no clue about what they're talking about. Western education, everyone.
>>905932
You know that there were great Christian characters and shifty Muslim characters in the movie?
The hospitaller comes to mind.
>>906003
There are only three or four good guys Christian characters and they're all self-hating Christians. None of the Muslims are portrayed negatively.
>>901839
>They were also welcomed and aided by people in the areas they were conquering.
Nice ahistorical bullshit meme
The people were more indifferent than welcoming
>>905988
The Jizya was actually cheaper than almost every tax medieval Europe had, which is why they were often welcomed as conquerors. Aside of that, how come actually multiple religions survived in the middle east, unlike Europe, where non-christians were either slaughtered or had no rights at all
>>901839
>People can actually be this brainwashed
Educate yourself plebe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhlvJ7jyYBg
>>906043
Besides the guy that wanted to kill Bloom for his horse and wouldn't stop until he got (outs)killed? Or the imam guy who kept pushing Saladin to war at all costs, nevermind the possible losses, and implied treason when he got told off?
>>906261
>>People can actually be this brainwashed
He says while linking """""REAL""""" Crusades History videos
>>906253
>“The honor of Islam lies in insulting the unbelief and the unbelievers (kafirs). One who respects kafirs dishonors Muslims… The real purpose of levying the Jizya on them is to humiliate them… [and] they remain terrified and trembling.” - Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi
Muslims were never welcomed as conquerors. Almost nobody in history was "welcomed as conquerors." This is a modern leftist revisionist fantasy.
>>906347
The Egyptians and Syrians did since the Byzantines were terrible rulers.
>>906364
Both were conquered by the sword, as always with jihad. 70,000 civilians were killed in the Islamic conquest of Mesopotamia. Were they overcome with glee to be conquered?
>people are dumb enough to say yes
>>906347
>Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi
A preacher whose career was based on criticizing contemporary Muslim practice with visions of what Islamic rule should be, not what it was, and who died nearly a thousand years after the appearance of Islam.
Sure, let's talk about revisionist fantasies. They're just not all leftist in this day and age.
>>906380
>The Muslim court historian Ziauddin Barani recorded that Kazi Mughisuddin of Bayanah advised Alā’ al-Dīn that Islam requires imposition of jizya on Hindus, to show contempt and to humiliate the Hindus, and imposing jizya is a religious duty of the Sultan.
>Ann Lambton states that the jizya was to be paid "in humiliating conditions". Ennaji and other scholars state that some jurists required the jizya to be paid by each in person, by presenting himself, arriving on foot not horseback, by hand, in order to confirm that he lowers himself to being a subjected one, and willingly pays.
If Trump required that Muslims pay an extra tax, there would be mass freak outs of what would be seen as discrimination. Seeing jizya as a sign of "tolerance" is a true sign of institutionalization.
>>906425
And then compare this to shit like the Inquisition and ask yourself which treatment you would prefer
>>906425
>>The Muslim court historian Ziauddin Barani recorded that Kazi Mughisuddin of Bayanah advised Alā’ al-Dīn that Islam requires imposition of jizya on Hindus, to show contempt and to humiliate the Hindus, and imposing jizya is a religious duty of the Sultan.
Yeah, after Alauddin demanded he come to comment on the state of his taxation policies, then assured Mughisuddin he wouldn't be killed for anything he said after trembling in his boots and pleading mercy. Once finished:
>Alauddin 'smiled at' his answers and said, "I do not understand any of the statements thou hast made; I have taken my measures, and have made my subjects obedient, so that at my command, they are ready to creep into holes like mice."
Imagining jizya as the institution described by people who literally had no power in Muslim government in the early modern age and then saying these fantasies of theirs are accurate descriptions of Umayyad and Abbasid policies in the 7th through 10th centuries is silly.
>>906425
>advised Alā’ al-Dīn
The Mughal ruler who was famous for being as "I am the state" as possible before the Sun King himself? His entire conversation with the Kazi was to make fun of him, saying he does what he wants when he wants because he's the king, God's shadow on Earth, and the only law that mattered was his own.
Theory-crafting =/= practice, especially not with the Middle East. For most of its history theoretical Sharia Law never existed, and the Middle East functioned under a series of arbitrary tax laws, economic policing, tribal custom, and only sometimes moral arbitration by actual Islamic hudud punishment.
>>900611
>calling any very general group of people 'badass'
Fuck off kid. History isnt a video game
>>907049
>implying saladin doesn't look badass as fuck in that picture
Yeah well what have you done for me lately?
>>902008
Victim complex
>>902008
>tfw if the Rashidis had won over the British supported Saudis then there would be no wahabshit ideology in Rashidi Arabia today and the Hashemites would still rule over the Hejaz and rule Iraq and Syria
thanks nigel
>>905865
why didn't al andalus stop the boats heading towards Jerusalem, was the reconquista already happening ?
were berber pirates and what not not already a thing yet ?
a blockade in the strait of Gibraltar would have had a massive blow on the christian side.
our was technology not on that stage yet, were navy battles were common.
Spain Islam
>>907332
Andalusia was also a target of the crusades
>>902340
This is really late but what are some places that are still good for tourists?
I'd like to plan a trip to the area in the near future but I'd also like to not end up abducted.
>>901196
Hey guys, lets use this thing that western countries thought of to compare a mostly western to a mostly non-western people.
>>901010
Partly of its own making.
