Do you consider causing small amounts of pain to impose discipline in a child or animal immoral? I'm not talking about beating, but rather about mild hair tugging/ear pulling/hitting a dog on the nose with a newspaper. I think these things are basically negligible in their moral value, but some people seem to believe this is the equivalent to abuse.
>>899933
the fact that you choose to analyse human behaviour through pains and pleasures shows that you care about pains and pleasures more than anything else. In one word you are hedonist.
Now, tell us your justification for embracing hedonism.
>>899933
Hitting dogs on their nose instead of behind is abuse.
>>899947
Enforcing behavior through introduction pleasant or unpleasant stimulus is pretty well tried.
>>899933
It doesn't necessarily impose discipline or a sense of duty.
It imposes fear. Or anger. They will learn that getting caught is bad, not necessarily that transgressions themselves are bad. Equating punishment with evil and reinforcement with good is the most primal stage of moral development.
I don't oppose corporal punishment in principle, it's just not that effective as a corrective method.
Inducing alternative behaviors (to the transgression) and reinforcing these behaviors is often more effective.
>>899933
Depends on the kid and what you're trying to make him do really. Beating a kid that will do what you say even without the beating if you use the right words is unnecessary violence, and as such abusive. Beating a kid that won't do something just because you tell them is not. However at that point you gotta wonder whether you're actually trying to make him do something he really needs to do or not, since you can't convince him with words.
Aside from this, you're being stupid in considering hair pulling better than a slap. Hair pulling is just mean, you dick.
>>899947
>shows that you care about pains and pleasures more than anything else.
>shows
>more than anything else
In what way does it show?
And how did you infer that it is more than anything else?
>>899947
I think you're extrapolating a lot from one question. If I were a hedonist I probably would live my life a lot differently. For one I wouldn't work as hard as I do. At the very least, I think I have a much lower time preference than typical hedonists.
It just teaches them its ok to hit people when you are angry, so no I dont. Grown people I know whose parents hit them, and who in turn also hit their children, tend to have a hard time dealing with real life situations where you cant just get angry and hit people.
>>899933
If you teach children that powerful people should hurt those weaker than them to get what they want, what kind of adult do you think your children will become?
>>899966
>It just teaches them its ok to hit people when you are angry
Maybe it teaches them that if you do something bad enough people might hurt you. Which is true, if you steal, insult people, attempt to rape someone, etc, you run a significant risk of becoming hurt.
>>899984
Yes but if you dont beat your child it will have greater chance of becoming alpha male/female which makes stealing, insulting, raping irrelevant as everyone will be too intimidated/obsessed with the child to harm it.
>>899933
GET
>>899966
>It just teaches them its ok to hit people when you are angry
It might also give them a perspective on what they've actually done (if you beat them because they were violent). You'd be surprised how little a kid actually understand of the suffering he inflicts.
>>899997
>Yes but if you dont beat your child it will have greater chance of becoming alpha male/female
First of all, I think we should make a distinction between beating and mild forms of corporal punishment.
And do we really have any evidence either way? It seems like this issue would be hard to study because of the large amounts of potential confounders (a parent who is against corporal punishment is probably different in a lot of ways besides that one issue than a parent who is for it.)
>>899984
Only if you get caught*
That's the point, hitting, raping, stealing, etc. still occurs
>>900003
>small child is not mentally developed enough to understand what they do, consequences, emotions, restraint, etc
>beating them will teach them
>>899966
This is true. I find it hilarious when proponents of corporal punishment claim that NOT hitting your kids will turn them into violent criminals and sociopaths.
>>900014
>That's the point, hitting, raping, stealing, etc. still occurs
Yeah, they still occur in people who were not disciplined as well as in people who were. So what exactly are we supposed to infer from that? It seems like a wash.
>>899933
Probably better than constant stress and emotional pain.
>>900024
I think there needs to be a balance, imposing too much discipline and pampering a child /telling him he's great and not disciplining him have both been found to correlate with malignant narcissism.
>>900033
Yeah, that's a good point. Between getting your ear pulled occasionally but having parents who fight and having parents who fight but are nice to you I think the former is preferable. But by some corporal punishment is seen as an all-or-nothing thing that will ruin a child while fighting with a spouse and getting divorced isn't.
>>899966
I think you are wrong. As a God fearing man I believe we should look to God for these answers. And God is a master of great physical punishment when people have done things wrong but when they do things right, the universe turns in their favor. I believe a perfect combination of positive and negative reinforcement is best. And don't focus on either, and don't intervene too much
>>900076
As a god fearing man you suck at the new testament god
>inb4 fall for b8
>>900076
Oh, well if your god says it's good then I guess it's good.
>>900095
They aren't different. Jesus was a Jew and the Old Testament says God favored the Jews.
Hell, the Koran says he made their lives longer
>>899933
My dad used to hit my on the nose with a newspaper
i wouldent say im fucked up because of it
>>900109
Is that how he house trained you?
>>900109
Poor deluded and abused child...
Life is abusive. You don't need to be.
Discipline a child to live unafraid, and life will provide all the pain that's necessary.
>>899933
If a kid knows that his parents, which are supposed to provide safety and ensure his life, are deliberately inflicting pain to him, it's emotionally quite fucked up. You can play good cop bad cop as parents, and the kid will only hate one of you after he grows up, no confusion or mixed feelings.
