What led to the decline of the sartorial art and the casualization of modern society?
>>896997
hippies
>>896997
they look like total fags
>>897008
Even if you think that the variety of jackets in the early 20th century was much varied then what you see today. Nowadays it's all cheap off the rack clothing from some sweatshop in China.
ITT: People who don't pay attention to modern fashion
>>896997
Mass culture
Plebeians do not understand sartorialismus
OP only wears oversized button-up shirts with jeans
My time has come. (I'll explain it lazily)
20th century Fashion was incredibly influenced by the world wars and American exceptionalism. Following the Second World War, that is focusing on America, women were expected to return back to their household and feminine duties as opposed to war times when they worked in factories and products such as makeup or fabrics were in short supply. Many societies were sick of war and desired luxury and opulence - but mostly freedom from wartime strife. Women willingly returned to a more feminine look, corsets which had been previously seen as restricting were now empowering. Companies now had access to materials and the US was quickly solidifying its place in the world stage as a super power. Unlike Europe which had been debased by war, the US remained largely unaffected. I place more emphasis on women here because women were expected to return to "wifely duties" - cooking, cleaning, handling the shopping which includes clothes shopping for most of the family.
These American ideals began to spread because as previously stated American companies were booming, Hollywood influenced not only the states but those in Europe (which spread the idea of the American Dream and American fashion standards).
Heading into the 60s we see fashion dramatically change. The 60s -70s was the era of androgyny and rebellion. Baby boomers were now teenagers and looking young was in fashion. So you had some mothers or older women copying the style of the younger generation, who at the time wanted to distinguish themselves (that's why we see the rise of more revealing clothing, men and women clothing, bright colourful styles). In the 50s-60s style was almost entirely about class and looking ladylike or in the case of men looking like gentle. But in the late 60s and most of the 70s we see the move away from softer colours and corals to vivid oranges and heavy outrageous eye make up like in the case of Elizabeth Taylor or Sophia Loren.
part 1/2
P2/3 fuck
The 80s were all about selfishness. The 80s were about empowering yourself, particularly focusing on empowering women. Fashion designers and fashion houses were now challenging more than ever the traditional rules of fashion and began to produce designs featuring shoulder pads (this creates stature which implies authoirty and strength) and fashion in general became more electric and theatrical. This decade was very influenced by electric designs and the baby boomers thoughts of the future, just look at back to the future.
There were also more women working in higher earning traditionally male careers, however their looks were still heavily judged, not to mention the conservative elements of society attacked them for what was seen as a refusal to follow traditional God given roles. This era, in terms of fashion, was like a war. The conservatives vs the progressives. Right wing elements such as religious evangelicals were popular but more progressive elements were also popular. Take for example madonna's like a prayer.
This decade also entail the rise of black culture in the media. Rap was in still in its early days and African American culture was seen more on television thus increasing its spread of influence (and unfortunately vanilla ice).
In the 90s we see the emergence of a new generation. Fashion focused less on colours and exaggerating body parts like the shoulders and focused more on silhouettes. That's why you see a lot of puffy jumpers or in juxtaposition body hugging dresses. Fashion designers borrowed from 70s fashion - fur was back as were feathers but they were mixed with vibrant colours. This decade very much focused on kids and advertising, remember Saved By The Bell and The Fresh Prince Of Bell Air. More catered towards kids and pre teens, thus a lot of fashion involved African American rap fashion with the backwards hats (this is important remember this point). Fashion became less complicated.
Okay last part I hope.
This millennia of fashion is broken into three parts. The early 2000s, Late 2000s and 2010-2016.
In the early 2000s fashion saw the rise of the drug and celebrity culture and the fall of the supermodel culture. This is why they have documentaries about anorexia folks.
Heroin chic was popular in the mid 90s but it's fun wasn't yet over. Being thin was now more in than ever. For example Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan and Nicole Richie were ruling tvs with their movies and reality to shows. Fashion became more about status than individual as in the 90s. We see a transition where rap and rnb was most popular and African American culture now also influenced the fashion world and the public fashion. Saggy pants and gangster style are just a different form of status. Instead of saying I'm rich it says I'm tough.
Late 2000s we see that fashion designers are going back to their roots. Less vibrant colours and less experimentation and more re introducing. The colours and silhouettes are toned down. More form fitting clothing is in. This affects how fashion is now (see the rising popularity of gladiator sandals, tight fitting clothing which exaggerates the male and female body shape, and rather duller colours are used in the case of grey, pastel pinks etc)
Now celebrity culture is a big influence, however, we are seeing a new trend emerge of people separating themselves from fashion trends. The constant stream of information of what's in fashion, what to wear, not to wear, what Kim kardashian is wearing Yass had a yada is actually turning a lot of consumers off. Their appears to be a big divide between people who care for fashion and those who don't. We also see a lot of sub cultures gaining popularity fast like sea punk when Rihanna performed shine bright like a diamond on SNL causing a huge interest and then disinterest after 10 minutes as is coming in this Internet age of fashion. New trends are absorbed just as quick as they're thrown away.
So that's what happened motherfucker. Nobody wants to wear a fucking corset all day- you'd still be a piece of turd wearing a suit.
>>896997
Are they wearing makeup? I'd imagine the reason people dont dress like this anymore is because they would have the shit kicked out of them
>>897432
Pretty interesting senpai, thanks
>>897281
I don't. I have a tailor who I visit often who makes clothes for me based on a personal pattern.
It is to my understanding that tailors were much more prevalent in the early 20th century than they are today. Most of the shops around are cheap alterations shops that only do the most bare bones alterations.
I believe the last era where actual bespoke tailors had a say in fashion was back in the 70s with the Edward-Sexton team. They're the guys that engineered the 70s silhouette of narrow and high shoulders, flared trews and wide lapels with a chest and skirt cut close to the body.
>>897899
Not fucking Edward-Sexton. Fucking Nutter-Sexton team.
>>896997
The decline of flâneur and the rise of derive.
>>897008
>>they look like total fags
says the 20 yo from the american middle class
>>897899
I do not even have a tailor here. I need one since all my clothes are too large, it is very bad.
>tfw nobody dresses for dinner any more
Average clothes and shoes being made in Bangladesh or some other shithole
>>898221
Well, alteration shops are everywhere. They do the most basic things like taking in the sides or hemming. For most advance operations you need someone with more expertise like re-cutting the collar of a jacket and taking excess material from the back.
For your probelm you could probably go to any alterations place, or dry cleaners, and get some quick changes on the cheap.
Personally, I'd rather have someone draft a personal pattern for me and work on that from scratch but that is much more expensive.
>>898263
>>Personally, I'd rather have someone draft a personal pattern for me and work on that from scratch but that is much more expensive.
do you get bespoke shoes too ?
can you share pictures of your bespoke suits ?
>>898287
No. I wish but no.
Here's my latest project that my tailor is working on. It's a half belt jacket with bellow pockets with a pleat in the center.
>>898433
Jesus fedora
You think you're some kind of brit m80
>>898433
how much does a suit costs you ?
>>897099
Well, you have to admit, more people back then dressed what we would consider "nice". A suit was standard for everyone. As opposed to today where they exist, but nobody wants to wear them. Main question is why. They're amazingly comfortable.
And here is the pattern I was talking about.
Basically a tailor draws a pattern just for you on a piece of paper then he cuts it and places it on top of the fabric. Then he uses these big ass scissors to cut the fabric based on what the pattern calls for. This basically allows the garment to have an optimal fit. This takes about 1-2 hours to do.
Some places use pre-made patterns or stock patterns but that isn't bespoke because it's not a personal pattern made just for your body.
>>898441
I won't lie. I love the British country style with the tweed and the hunting jackets like the old gentry. I doubt it has that connotation here in the States. I think most people would just see it has a suit with peculiar features.
>>898443
A full suit can run up to 2k depending on the fabric. The nicer the fabric the more it will cost. A jacket just by itself runs over 1k depending on fabric choice.
I don't understand fashion at all
I just wear what's comfy
Do you wear belts ?
>>897971
thread
filthy plebs talking about dressing up in a suit means anything
man i don't got time for that shit
>>898565
Psychogeography is best practiced drunk with molotovs. Today's gentleman does not peruse the arcades of Benjamin, he burns the mall.
>>897432
>>897370
>>897307
/fa/shion illiterate anon here. I was going to take a stab at it being related to the cost of clothing. Clothing is insanely cheap and disposable today by historical standards.
So, a coat like OPs would be a serious investment by most people's standards and would be expected to be cared for, and repaired over time, etc. etc.
Same with the shoes. You'd wear them until the soles wore out, and then you'd see a cobbler, and he'd put new soles in for you.
But now we can have a fucking t-shirt and if the cheap fabric tears, you can buy another one.
Am I completely off the mark in this being a factor?
>>898583
This certainly plays a role too. The cost of clothing is a factor. The rise of the mass produced Ready-to-Wear put a dent to it. In traditional clothing you see a shift from fashion going from tailors to designers. As I said, Tommy Nutter and Edward Sexton were probably the last tailors to influence fashion. Before you had famous tailors like Frederick Scholte who came up with the drape cut for suits. The drape cut is basically what you think about when it comes to the 30s-50s suit. Broad shoulders, big chests and fuller trews. It was basically what Armani was trying to copy back in the 1980s and 90s. During the 80s and 90s you saw a revival in retro fashion, but in a different twist. Just like in the late 00s and early 2010s you saw the revival of "mad men" style but with different twists.
>>898617
Does this also relate to modern 'mix and match' fashion? From what I understand, back in the days before off the rack clothing, you'd be looking to buy clothes in a set. There seems to be very little in the way from period advertisements, from what I've seen, of advertisements for, for example, simply a set of pants, or a set of shoes.
Women's fashion this is most noticable, because we go from full dresses to a more top, bottom and outerwear combination going.
And once you have that, you seem to have less of a notion of getting your entire outfit 'smart' and more a clever mix and matching of pieces.
>>898617
You missed Fashion Moda during the 1980's where people when anti war leather or ortherwise battlejacks surged in popularity. Of course this was a geographic thing and an urban trend. So it was more a street style than eternal fashion law.
>>898536
Comfyguy here, if I have to. Usually just wear gym clothes
>>898660
avoid trends like the devil, you're doing god's work.
>>898657
Well, I'm mostly just talking about "traditional" clothing. Like zoots and shit like that.
>>898660
What's your idea of gym clothes, because I would not describe them as comfy.
>>898679
>sweatpants
>tshirts
>hoodies
>tracksuits
>not comfy
Huh?
>>898687
Oh that's comfy. Not really gym clothes to me.
>>898694
What the fuck are you wearing to the gym?
A three piece suit?
>>898583
No you're correct. With industrialisation there came a great divide in terms of classes. Only the rich can afford the finer materials such as fur and they shop at places like us two, only difference is they shop their a lot more than us.
Basically with the rapid production of cheap clothing, trends are guaranteed to reach a huge segment of the population because of how accessible it is. However, the world wars and changing values affected fashion far more than industrialisation as with the mass production of goods you could guarantee that the public would have these clothes but they weren't necessarily going to wear them.
who wear high rise pants?
is possible to wear them without being mocked today ?
>>898697
Compression wear, shorts, or sweatwear over them to induce more sweating.
Basically, clothes that are either deliberately too hot, too cold, and always way too tight.
>>898702
I've had a few made. They reach all the way to my belly button. But then I'm short and I think they look best on shorter men because it gives the illusion of a longer legs. Never been mocked desu
>>898583
Please forgive me for the atrocious English j don't know why I replied to you on my phone!
>>898488
>
I won't lie. I love the British country style with the tweed and the hunting jackets like the old gentry. I doubt it has that connotation here in the States. I think most people would just see it has a suit with peculiar features.
FYI people watch Downton Abbey m8. They know what you think you look like, top fedora to you.
>>898703
Why would you do that to yourself?
I'm the and who posted the history of fashion there:
Honestly just wear what you want.
Fashion is about expressing yourself- you wanna dress like a classy Georgian lady - go ahead and do it!
Also sewing is a valuable skill that you should try. Even learning the most basic things will make your life easier, you won't have to pay anything to fix a hole in clothing.
Personally I prefer big comfy styles and every month or so I'll create an old costume piece just for the fun of it, fashion is about what suits you.
>>898738
Not anyone that I know of, lad. As I said, most people around my area aren't very fashion conscious. They think anything with lapels is a suit
>>898799
>Fashion is about expressing yourself- you wanna dress like a classy Georgian lady - go ahead and do it!
What if I'm a man?
>>898837
Nigga did I stutter
>>898799
>Fashion is about expressing yourself
This. It's at its core just a form of non-verbal communication. Use your clothes to say what you want to say about yourself.
>>898842
lel
>Use your clothes to say what you want to say about yourself.
so much that most men express their lack of reflexivity in wearing, when they suit up, black suit with black ties with black shoes.
Well done for the expression....
So you are right, and most men are easy to judge thanks to the cheap clothing.
>>897307
Fucking hippies they ruined everything!
Thanks /fa/ggot
>>898240
At the university I go to, we still do.
>>898703
>sweatwear over them to induce more sweating
retard
>>899684
Modern male clothing is boring as shit. It's no wonder there's so many crossdressers and trannies nowadays. Female fashion has so much variety in comparison it is unfair.
Even in videogames you can see it. Females have 100 times more customization options than guy characters.
>>898842
>>902011
Lolno. Male fashion is pretty diverse. Just look at all the drafts for jackets I posted. There's a lot of variety in cuts and style. Just because you see all this generic shit from department stores doesn't mean all male fashion is boring
>>898738
Just for you, the finished product. Both trews and jacket are custom.
>>902237
Do you, by any chance, happen to enjoy mens penises in your rectal passage?
>>902237
I'm sorry mate, but that's an objectively bad outfit. You look like a townie or city folk who's come down to West Country for the day to go on a pheasant shoot with the 'chaps'.
Imagine ruining a tweek jacket with a breast pocket lmao
>>898676
What about urban trends, they were important because that's all people would remember from there youth...
Should I post pix of my Eienshower jacket?
>>902404
His hands are also really tiny and emasculate, so those shoulderpads look really awful. And his trousers come up way too high as well, considering the shape the jacket gives his torso.
Shit fit.
>>902416
now you post your fit if you're so /fa/
oh wait you don't got clothes fucciboi
![serveimage[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/C0mh4CS.jpg "serveimage[1].jpg")
>>902237
I dont know if you're stil labout or if you see this but it's >>902404 again and I want to offer you un asked for help
The reason behind my original insult is that I work and spend a lot of time around gamekeepers/huntsman etc in the British countryside and you can spot someone who is just dressing the part but isn't the part from a mile off.
First of all, drop the big chuky breast pocket, see this twat of a model in this picture I got off google? See that slit of a breast pocket? It's because that pocket is for one thing only, a hankerchief. Bonus points for matching it to your tie.
Seriously, take a hard look at pic related and then at your picture and ask yourself 'does my pocket REALLY add anything other than an uneccesary eye sore?'
![031[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uShroYi.jpg "031[1].jpg")
>>902492
Secondly, look at this chap here.
You see how you've gone for a boring geography teacher tie? Stop that.
Often guys turn up to shoots with fun ties, this one is rather tame in this picture to be honest. This is because in a culture with a strict and traditional dress code they know that a tie is a brilliant way to show personality, have some fun with it!
Another point to show in this picture, and the previous one with the model is the sweater or cardigan underneath the tweed jacket. You should wear a knitted jumper/sweater whatever under your tweed jacket with your tie tucked in, it allows your to comfortable undo the buttons on the tweed and be more relaxed, as well as fitting a more gentlement/academic look.
>>898454
> They're amazingly comfortable.
What the hell, how are they more comfortable than autism cargo shorts? You damn well know they're not. Try jumping over a big puddle with a suit and report back when your crotch seam undoes itself.
>>902539
Not to mention how suits are generally a shit for any place that has weather north or south of room temperature.
![serveimage[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RNKVAKP.jpg "serveimage[1].jpg")
>>902514
Thirdly, and this is highly important to the look:
The chequared shirt, the shirt of the countryman, farmer, shooter, game keeper; it is the quintessential british shirt. And I don't mean a lumberjack or quilted shirt, just a white shirt with thin chequaring on it such as in this picture.
It's 3:30am and I'm going to sleep. I hope I haven't seemed pompous in trying to show the errors of your ways. I wouldn't feel self-conscious about it, if you're not in the English countryside no one will notice - but if you want any more advice, I can show you more in depth examples of how to shop etc and how to fit the style tomorrow when I'm awake. It's a hard style to understand if you're not part of the culture and I admire anyone trying to go for it.
>>902524
To be honest I'm not entirely sure, I guess it's a kind of snobbery. In England there's a massive class war between those in the countryside and those in the city, mostly shown by the fox hunting ban pushed on parliement by those in the city that lead to violence and outrage even from the most well mannered english gentry of the countryside. Us British love tradition and continuity, the monarchy being a prime example. We are full of old boys clubs and creating connections is vital, during the shooting seasons a day out shooting is the perfect way to turn up in your gentlemens gear and meet some landowners and what not, drink some port and make these connections.
I'm sort of babbling to be honest, I'm finding it very hard to answer your question - it's hard to analyse your own culture.
But anyway, night lads. Like I said to that original guy, if you want more tips I'll be about tomorrow.
Pic related - it's my local hunt
Also related, if you're interested in the culture then here's a great indie documentary:
https://vimeo.com/73448924
It follows pic related, the man with the horn is my friends dad and master of the foxhounds. In fact as I'm typing this I can hear them howling as they do every morning near 4AM
![get-the-look-country-gents-compton-tweed-blazer-by-alan-paine[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RSFwySz.jpg "get-the-look-country-gents-compton-tweed-blazer-by-alan-paine[1].jpg")
>>902576
whoopsie, pic related was meant to go with that post originally as an example of chequared shirts
obviously none of us will ever look like the models in these picture but they certainly have the styles down
>>902492
>>902404
No problem at all, lad. I'm glad you posted all the huntsman culture posts. Very informitive. While I'm sure the look would turn heads in certain British circles that isn't the case in the States. I really do like the British country style, so I wouldn't mind if you posted more.
As for the breast pocket, I've seen jackets with those. This one has a pleat running down the middle. IMO it adds add a more sporty look to the jacket. Of course I'm not going to go hunting in this jacket, no one does this in the States, it's just another detail to add to a tweed jacket.
>>902416
Every jacket has a shoulder pad, man. Even the natural shoulder jackets have some padding. That pad isn't even big, it's really nothing. It's just there to add a bit more structure to the jacket which I like.
The trousers are high-rise which I like because I don't want any belt or waistline showing between the buttoning point and the waistband. I think it's a sloppy look.
>>896997
>demilitarization (suits = remnants of military uniforms)
>industrialization (practical clothing is better suited for factory work (relevant in the past) and more comfortable (relevant today))
>loss of blind faith (less "totems" in wardrobe)
